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| Is it okay to post that I believe Sprays record should still stand?
Back in the day... fish had newer genes than the fish of today.
Reproduction in Wisconsin is thought to be non-existent to some.
Giant dinosaurs used to roam the earth.
The Illinois Mutt Muskellunge is getting shorter.
Not to mention... there used to be more ducks in the water.
Or, maybe... the fish ate a giant Carp before it was caught.
#69
Anyone with me?
:) |
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| What is 70 years in the evolution of a fish that's been around for 10,000 years? |
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| Extremely drastic. Especially with the evolution of man and technology over the last 20. :P |
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| I don't know, look at the average size of an NFL lineman today vs the 1960s. That is a short span in terms of man's evolution, less than 3 generations, but today the Packers guards are around 6'4" and well over 300#. In the Lombardi era, his starting guards were just over 6' and played at less than 250#.
However, Reelwise seems to be making an argument that the fish on the Chip are getting smaller as they evolve, not bigger. |
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| There are a different breed of players this day in age. Un-natural reproduction in a confined, artificial environment has sped evolution up for us when it comes to how the fish react to change.
Edited by Reelwise 3/2/2017 1:02 PM
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| North of 8 - 3/2/2017 12:57 PM
I don't know, look at the average size of an NFL lineman today vs the 1960s. That is a short span in terms of man's evolution, less than 3 generations, but today the Packers guards are around 6'4" and well over 300#. In the Lombardi era, his starting guards were just over 6' and played at less than 250#.
However, Reelwise seems to be making an argument that the fish on the Chip are getting smaller as they evolve, not bigger.
I blame that on all the growth hormones in our meat/dairy and a diet that looks very different than what we typically ate 50 years ago. (and how much)
Odd that muskies are only shrinking in N/WI and seem to be getting larger everywhere else. Something in the water, perhaps?  |
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| Muskellunge are getting larger everywhere else? |
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Location: Springfield, IL and Vermilion Bay, ON | Simply to add a correction to the above post...hormones are not expressed in dairy or muscle tissue. This has been debated for years and it simply does not occur. No question that we as humans are getting taller and bigger...that's just not the reason. |
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| Reelwise - 3/2/2017 1:09 PM
Muskellunge are getting larger everywhere else?
Amazing what happens when you let them grow to old age instead of shooting them and eating them the minute they reach 34"...
That's not evolution, though. That's just a result of better management and responsible angling practices.
Edited by esoxaddict 3/2/2017 1:14 PM
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| Imagine if there were the same number of anglers there are today fishing way back when. The fish of today would look tiny. Lake St. Clair is not a good example when it comes to this topic either. Pretty sure those used to be longer/bigger, too. Stocking has hurt the pool in lakes where natural reproduction used to be present. Too worried about numbers.
Edited by Reelwise 3/2/2017 1:14 PM
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Location: The desert | Spray's record is legit and Cutler is elite. You're batting 1.000 |
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Location: MN | ^^ Ha! |
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| 100% completion. |
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Location: Waukee, IA | Illineye - 3/2/2017 1:10 PM
Simply to add a correction to the above post...hormones are not expressed in dairy or muscle tissue. This has been debated for years and it simply does not occur. No question that we as humans are getting taller and bigger...that's just not the reason.
Milk absolutely DOES contain naturally occurring hormones. It's not even debatable, proven many times over by literally every study. But beings this thread is a lampoon anyway I assume you're just being facetious. |
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| Pointerpride102 - 3/2/2017 1:15 PM
Spray's record is legit and Cutler is elite. You're batting 1.000
LOL!
Favorite post so far this year.
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| There is no batting in angling and football this day in age. |
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| There used to be Sharks the size of some of the lakes we fish - in the water. Humans live on land and have access to advance medical, technological services as well as several forms of medication/nutrients - all while able to control thought and actions based on being able to travel throughout. |
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Location: 31 | Reelwise - 3/2/2017 12:28 PM Is it okay to post that I believe Sprays record should still stand?
Back in the day... fish had newer genes than the fish of today.
Reproduction in Wisconsin is thought to be non-existent to some.
Giant dinosaurs used to roam the earth.
The Illinois Mutt Muskellunge is getting shorter.
Not to mention... there used to be more ducks in the water.
Or, maybe... the fish ate a giant Carp before it was caught.
#69
Anyone with me?
:) Or maybe he lied? Do you really think this fish was 63 ½” / almost 70 pounds?
(Louie 1949 newspaper - Copy.jpg)
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| Based on the current record... just a few pounds less - yes. |
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Location: 31 | Reelwise - 3/2/2017 2:11 PM Based on the current record... just a few pounds less - yes. When you're next tooth falls out, put it under your pillow. |
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| Why is it so hard to believe somebody caught a bigger fish than all of us? 3 of them... |
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Location: oswego, il | Have you seen the cal johnson mount of a "record " fish from that era? Have you kept up on what has happened during the photo analysis and the hall's confirmation of the records? Do so and see if you still question whether or not they are legit. |
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| I have done my own study... without influence of others' opinion and judgement of a photo taken before most people who Muskellunge fish were even born - myself included.
Can you hook me up with a Canon, Todd???  |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | Come on Todd, you're just salty that Louie caught a few more 50s than you have. |
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| I've fished with a bunch of names myself. I can count on one hand the number of them who have actually seen a 50# fish even after a lifetime of guiding for muskies on trophy waters. If they got that big, somebody would have caught one that was at least within a few pounds and a few inches of Spray's fish. When we start seeing 60" muskies that are over 60# in July, and in Hayward no less? Maybe I'll change my mind. |
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| Someone did catch one within a few pounds of Spray's fish... the record still stands. Not many people are dragging 6" Kalin's grubs or jigging purple worms on some of these trophy waters, either. Not to mention... these trophy waters most refer to are based on a lot of artifact rather than pure nature. |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | No one thinks the record is real. Which is why reading this thread and the other currently active provide nothing more than eye strain. |
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Best thread I've seen in awhile. |
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| Some of you may be happy to hear that Rich D bought a fishing outfit and did some casting for Muskellunge on the Fox River earlier this year. I think I had some influence on it... although he was the one who pulled the trigger! Glad he made it out. |
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Location: North St. Paul, MN | Now every time I see a post from the Cutler Elite Thinker I'll see this...
"You have chosen to ignore this poster"
Thank God that the "ignore user" is an option on this site. I had ol' reelwise on there and took him off. Looks like he's back on the ignore list! Now if only everyone would ignore him, he'd actually shut up? Probably not, but I can dream. |
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| Reelwise, I think you are on something or on to something!! Love It!!
Let Louie live! |
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Location: Illinois | I just threw up in my mouth after reading this thread. Oh well free country to believe what you want. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Don't feed the bears! |
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Location: davis,IL | Well I'll throw in my two cents! ..... If one is to believe that Spray caught 3 world records in a 10 year period.... I have another one for you....what are the odds of winning the lotto...the big one... you know.....over 100 million or so.....I would say their are far more lottery winners than world record muskie holders. And this guy did it 3 times......if he had a horseshoe that big up his butt...how come he also wasn't the richest man ever or something like that. Seems to me that he was shoveling it out hard and fast, hoping no one would notice the smell. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | muskydope - 3/2/2017 4:39 PM
Seems to me that he was shoveling it out hard and fast, hoping no one would notice the smell.
To this day there is no shortage of people who will believe anything. You can never underestimate the stupidity of the general public.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Reelwise - 3/2/2017 2:14 PM
Why is it so hard to believe somebody caught a bigger fish than all of us? 3 of them...
Simple. It didn't happen.
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Location: MN | The trolling bite is on fire today! |
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Location: oswego, il | Brandyn, maybe you can get the Hayward HoF special photo calipers and do your own analysis. You can also compare the photos to fish with girths near and exceeding 30".
To those who say leave louie alone, so what you are saying is, leave louie's records, dismiss lawton's record. Do i have this right? |
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| I like tater tots. |
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| muskyroller - 3/2/2017 3:04 PM
Now every time I see a post from the Cutler Elite Thinker I'll see this...
"You have chosen to ignore this poster"
Thank God that the "ignore user" is an option on this site. I had ol' reelwise on there and took him off. Looks like he's back on the ignore list! Now if only everyone would ignore him, he'd actually shut up? Probably not, but I can dream.
this is great how do you activate this feature...maybe this will help with your wishes...LOL |
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| bomber34 - 3/2/2017 3:32 PM
Reelwise, I think you are on something or on to something!! Love It!!
Let Louie live!
I wish I knew where he is picking up his smoke cause I want some of that its the kill obviously!!!! |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | This:
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| Louie just so happened to be on the lake with the biggest fish on Earth and possibly the entire universe. |
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| Does anyone have any proof that the fish was not as big as what had been listed in the record books for so long? |
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| Todd... I have been tested plenty of times. I'm pretty good at estimating fish with a special tool called Adobe Illustrator. If a finger is showing... there is no challenge. Kind of weird how people with a job in a high place get the nod over a lot of other people... especially when it comes to something like this. Go check out Adobe.com and download a trial. You can have a lot of fun. |
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Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Steve, we haven't seen him in a long time! This may be more appropriate the way this thread is going!
Edited by KenK 3/2/2017 6:13 PM
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| I hope Steve knows... when the greats are mentioned - I always give him props for all he has done for the fishing community. |
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Location: oswego, il | Reelwise - 3/2/2017 5:40 PM
Todd... I have been tested plenty of times. I'm pretty good at estimating fish with a special tool called Adobe Illustrator. If a finger is showing... there is no challenge. Kind of weird how people with a job in a high place get the nod over a lot of other people... especially when it comes to something like this. Go check out Adobe.com and download a trial. You can have a lot of fun. :)
So your saying it is as easy as having that program. Wow, its too bad the WRMA didnt know that when they did their pboto analysis. Your pulling our chain!
Edited by ToddM 3/2/2017 6:39 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | That's RW's specialty. Chain pulling is an art, much easier than pushing one, too. |
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| Reelwise - 3/2/2017 5:40 PM
Todd... I have been tested plenty of times. I'm pretty good at estimating fish with a special tool called Adobe Illustrator. If a finger is showing... there is no challenge. Kind of weird how people with a job in a high place get the nod over a lot of other people... especially when it comes to something like this. Go check out Adobe.com and download a trial. You can have a lot of fun. :)
If the finger is straight, in the same plane as the fish, and you know the exact length of said finger...
Unless you got one of Louie's fingers, I'd say you got nothing.
But then you don't really believe the record, either, do you?
Edited by esoxaddict 3/2/2017 6:38 PM
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| You should probably delete the photos, PETA gets a hold of them and you all will be charged with abuse of rodents. |
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Location: oswego, il | North of 8 - 3/2/2017 10:11 PM
You should probably delete the photos, PETA gets a hold of them and you all will be charged with abuse of rodents.
I went with a healthy superfood. I think i am good. |
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| Are you holding a Cadbury egg tryout? I've caught at least one bigger than that 45"er. I wish I had a bunny to dress up. |
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Location: 31 | Measure this one...
(detloff with clown hair - Copy.jpg)
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| I remember when I had my first beer...
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| Cutler could catch a 60 pounder. Probably a 70 pounder too. |
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Location: central Wisconsin | Louie caught an elite musky. |
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Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Jerry, how big was the mount that Dettloff is holding? I remember it didn't help his cause. |
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Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | Ken: I believe it was 51 inches!!! No, certainly didn't help his "cause"! |
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| Speaking of size Has anybody tried the new "Grand Mac" at McDonald's
Edited by happy hooker 3/3/2017 10:03 AM
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Location: Blaine, MN | happy hooker - 3/3/2017 9:48 AM
Has anybody tried the new "Grand Mac" at McDonald's
Rumor has it Mr. Spray has.... the way i heard it though, is he received the mac Jr. but led everyone to believe it was the "Grand Mac"!
Edited by short STRIKE 3/3/2017 9:57 AM
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| In my humble opinion, Louie was a charlatan of the first order, but I continue to question why so many otherwise honorable, well-regarded and God-fearing citizens of Hayward would sign a document stating that Louie's fish was the weight and length stated on the document, if it wasn't. Personally, and I know what everyone will think of this, I believe that the reason Louie's fish was scrutinized so much is that no fisherman today is able to locate and then catch a musky of those proportions, so obviously it was all a lie. Sorry guys, but those giants are still out there....you just gotta BELIEVE! |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | hairy lures - 3/3/2017 9:58 AM
In my humble opinion, Louie was a charlatan of the first order, but I continue to question why so many otherwise honorable, well-regarded and God-fearing citizens of Hayward would sign a document stating that Louie's fish was the weight and length stated on the document, if it wasn't. Personally, and I know what everyone will think of this, I believe that the reason Louie's fish was scrutinized so much is that no fisherman today is able to locate and then catch a musky of those proportions, so obviously it was all a lie. Sorry guys, but those giants are still out there....you just gotta BELIEVE!
Or because the fish is clearly not that big? |
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Location: oswego, il | Hairy, its been 66 years since a fish of that "size" has been caught in that area. 66 years since louie's record and nothing remotely close has been caught in that area to any of the 4 records. Nothing.
The grand mac isnt as big as one might think. I heard a rumor they will be changing its name to the louie burger.
Edited by ToddM 3/3/2017 10:16 AM
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| You can't hide big,,but that's not always accurate,,case in point remember the 2007 camaro Z28 that could metamorphosis into a three story mechanized monster in the movie 'transformers' |
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Location: Hudson, WI | According to the dude who works the evening shift at the local bait shop, he's seen several over 60" in Polk County and had one follow his beetle spin in that was over 70" on Cedar Lake. He works in a bait shop, so he must know his stuff. Guys, while you're in here wondering if it's real, he's out there proving it. Step your game up. |
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| prespring is the best time for stories. And it is always fun to see that after we all start fishing, only a few ever post any big fish, and most of us just shut up. there once was an 80 incher in Dubay, and last year there was a monster never seen in Boom, and on and on. |
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| I've heard Pewaukee Lake people say they've seen the head on one side of their pier and the tail on the other. I don't know how they can walk on a 16 ft 2"x12" with a martini in each hand. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | muskidiem - 3/3/2017 10:53 AM
prespring is the best time for stories. And it is always fun to see that after we all start fishing, only a few ever post any big fish, and most of us just shut up. there once was an 80 incher in Dubay, and last year there was a monster never seen in Boom, and on and on.
I'd argue that. we have literally thousands of big muskie images onsite. The monster in boom has been sighted. Some think it was a stump. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | hairy lures - 3/3/2017 9:58 AM
In my humble opinion, Louie was a charlatan of the first order, but I continue to question why so many otherwise honorable, well-regarded and God-fearing citizens of Hayward would sign a document stating that Louie's fish was the weight and length stated on the document, if it wasn't. Personally, and I know what everyone will think of this, I believe that the reason Louie's fish was scrutinized so much is that no fisherman today is able to locate and then catch a musky of those proportions, so obviously it was all a lie. Sorry guys, but those giants are still out there....you just gotta BELIEVE!
There's been many fish caught bigger than Louie's. |
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Location: 31 | hairy lures - 3/3/2017 9:58 AM In my humble opinion, Louie was a charlatan of the first order, but I continue to question why so many otherwise honorable, well-regarded and God-fearing citizens of Hayward would sign a document stating that Louie's fish was the weight and length stated on the document, if it wasn't. Personally, and I know what everyone will think of this, I believe that the reason Louie's fish was scrutinized so much is that no fisherman today is able to locate and then catch a musky of those proportions, so obviously it was all a lie. Sorry guys, but those giants are still out there....you just gotta BELIEVE! I could write a book with the information I've compiled on how Louie was able to pull off turning 30lb muskies (that he never even caught) into 60 -70 records that he peddled for prestige and profit… while others are still carrying on the fraudulent tradition. It's a well-known fact that Louis was in the business of buying big muskies, and with the help of an esteemed local taxidermist they turned them into the Frankenstein giants that the uneducated still believe in today.
Jack, do you think the mount is a fair representation of the 1939 record fish?
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Location: 31 | The same taxidermist that did the terrible work on the 1939 fish was responsible for the enhancements to Cal Johnson's 67lb IGFA record.
Edited by Jerry Newman 3/3/2017 1:13 PM
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | He must have secured a better taxidermist for this one:
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Location: central Wisconsin | dfkiii - 3/3/2017 8:17 PM
He must have secured a better taxidermist for this one:
What is the story on that mount? I think I've seen that in the Moccasin Bar. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | Jeff78 - 3/3/2017 8:31 PM
dfkiii - 3/3/2017 8:17 PM
He must have secured a better taxidermist for this one:
What is the story on that mount? I think I've seen that in the Moccasin Bar.
Cal Johnson's is in the Moccasin Bar. I believe the one above was lost to fire when Louie's bar went up in flames. |
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Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Yes, Louie's is toast. Cal's mount, according to Dettloff suffers from pelvic fin drift. |
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| What giant fish is displayed at Dun Rovin Lodge? |
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Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | KenK: you and I have always gotten a kick out of "pelvic fin drift"! What Dettloff neglected to consider with his "drift" scenario was if the back paired fins did "drift forward" during the mounting process, then where did all the skin behind those fins to the tail come from? Can't have it both ways!!!
0723: The mount at Dun Rovin is the Malo fish which was taken illegally too. |
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| muskyroller - 3/2/2017 3:04 PM
Now every time I see a post from the Cutler Elite Thinker I'll see this...
"You have chosen to ignore this poster"
Thank God that the "ignore user" is an option on this site. I had ol' reelwise on there and took him off. Looks like he's back on the ignore list! Now if only everyone would ignore him, he'd actually shut up? Probably not, but I can dream.
Reelwise threads are some of my favorite threads. Being relatively new to musky fishing and being from michigan, I didn't know anything Spray or the record until these threads popped up yesterday. Thanks for the history lesson gents!
My opinion is that it is impossible he caught that fish because the TranX HG did not come out until 2012. You could never reel double 10's fast enough to catch a fish that big without an HG |
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| Yes I thought that was the Malo fish but wasn't sure thank you for clearing that up.What was the story with that fish,many in Hayward always thought that fish should have the record.Or was it another fake too.
Edited by 0723 3/4/2017 7:29 AM
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Location: 31 | dfkiii - 3/3/2017 8:17 PM He must have secured a better taxidermist for this one: Yep, Louie was forced to use a different taxidermist on the 1949 record fish, and it's probably the best fake mount of them all. However, you can still see where the stretched skin is beginning to pucker up in the middle (below) after being on display for a while (the picture you have is from when he was picking it up). The reason Louie had to use a different taxidermist on the last one was because the local taxidermist refused to risk his reputation again having just completed the Cal Johnson fake mount a couple months before… too many probing questions were already being asked.
Take a good look at the relative size of the 49 fish hanging in front of Louie, and then the mount that is kind of along side him. Everyone knows about the perspective of holding a fish closer to the camera so that it appears larger... why does the mount in your picture appear larger than the fish below? I get a kick out of the claimed 31” girth when compared to his waist… how would Louie's pants fit on that fish? The back story behind Louie’s 3th World record is he had told Cal Johnson earlier that year how he had pulled off his first 2 fakes and Cal decided he wanted in on the action (and the new car and accolades that went with it!). This really peeed off Louie having been shot with his own bullet so to speak, so he publicly announced he was coming out of retirement to break Cal's world record by the end of the year. What's the largest muskie you could put your hands on (by hook or crook) in just a few months in 1949 Hayward? The real size of this fish and answer is about 35lbs and 53”… same as it is today. This newspaper clipping is different than the common one we have all already seen, we would have really liked a good copy when we did the report!
Edited by Jerry Newman 3/4/2017 1:45 PM
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | Jerry Newman - 3/4/2017 1:35 PM
What's the largest muskie you could put your hands on (by hook or crook) in just a few months in 1949 Hayward? The real size of this fish and answer is about 35lbs and 53”… same as it is today.
Yup, there are no bigger fish in WI. Maybe you should try fishing with Scott Kieper. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Scott was fishing in Hayward in 1949? He has aged well.
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | Read carefully Steve. Jerry said 53" and 35 pounds are also as big as they get now. |
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Location: WI | hairy lures - 3/3/2017 9:58 AM
In my humble opinion, Louie was a charlatan of the first order, but I continue to question why so many otherwise honorable, well-regarded and God-fearing citizens of Hayward would sign a document stating that Louie's fish was the weight and length stated on the document, if it wasn't. Personally, and I know what everyone will think of this, I believe that the reason Louie's fish was scrutinized so much is that no fisherman today is able to locate and then catch a musky of those proportions, so obviously it was all a lie. Sorry guys, but those giants are still out there....you just gotta BELIEVE!
This makes me think of my 22 month olds favorite movie Santa Paws. Only those filled with the Christmas spirit can hear that f&@$ing dog speak. I think the only people who can look at a photo of that fish and think 69lber r filled with the Hayward area tourism spirit.
It's on Netflix by the way if anyone wants to enjoy some Santa Paws. |
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Location: St. Lawrence River | hairy lures - 3/3/2017 10:58 AM
In my humble opinion, Louie was a charlatan of the first order, but I continue to question why so many otherwise honorable, well-regarded and God-fearing citizens of Hayward would sign a document stating that Louie's fish was the weight and length stated on the document, if it wasn't. Personally, and I know what everyone will think of this, I believe that the reason Louie's fish was scrutinized so much is that no fisherman today is able to locate and then catch a musky of those proportions, so obviously it was all a lie. Sorry guys, but those giants are still out there....you just gotta BELIEVE!
No fisherman has since caught one, but it could be out there. It's a possibility, you have to BELIEVE!
Your theory also applies to Bigfoot, aliens, chupacabra, and the slenderman.
So your pretty much par for the course....
Edited by JakeStCroixSkis 3/5/2017 12:06 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | dfkiii - 3/4/2017 5:55 PM
Read carefully Steve. Jerry said 53" and 35 pounds are also as big as they get now.
Come on, quit nit picking.
And you said in Wisconsin.
This is interesting:
http://www.chippewaflowage.com/muskyhunt/
http://indiantrailresort.com/itrchart14.cfm
http://www.deerfootlodge.com/musky-chart.php?page=2&name=&date=
http://www.chippewaflowage.com/stories/these-are-the-good-old-days-...
And so on and on and on. |
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Location: 31 | dfkiii - 3/4/2017 5:55 PM Read carefully Steve. Jerry said 53" and 35 pounds are also as big as they get now. I never said that’s as big as they get and think you must have inadvertently glazed over the keywords in my statement like “about”, “Hayward”, and “months” in an attempt to prove your point. I don't want to nitpick either but the statistics Steve provided certainly support my statement, and would guess that anyone reading this who fishes Hayward regularly (including Scott) would probably agree that an inland 53” would be fairly hard to come by in the short period of time that Louie had to work with.
On that note I think that if Hayward really wants to promote their muskie fishing, they should do so honestly and would be much better served promoting hard-working guys like Scott that really embody the essence of the sport, rather than a scoundrel like Louie. I agree that Scott is a great example of what's possible, but on the other hand you still have guy’s like John Dettloff who has fished the Chippewa Flowage his entire life without even catching a single 50” muskie… yet has the audacity to make an outlandish statement like this (from the link Steve provided).
“The Chippewa Flowage is home to some of the biggest muskies in the musky world and holds the current all-tackle world record – a giant muskie, caught by Louie Spray, that tipped the scales at 69 ponds, 11 ounces and was 5 feet, 3 inches in length! Are there larger muskies than the current world record that still swim the fabled waters of the Big Chip’ Who knows – maybe you could be the next lucky angler’”
If you want to take issue with someone misrepresenting the areas muskie… maybe you should start with him? |
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| Maybe Louie was tipped as to where these fish were? Or, he was just an amazing angler. |
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Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | He was a liar, a thief, a rumrunner, but when it came to muskies, he played by the books!
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Location: oswego, il | Come to the chippewa flowage and catch a world record musky. This was told to me by a woman at a sport show as she handed me the area booklet. |
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| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1jbgoZpmj4
well...if this doesn't make you believe
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Reelwise - 3/5/2017 6:26 PM
Maybe Louie was tipped as to where these fish were? Or, he was just an amazing angler.
Or....
Not. |
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Location: Minnetonka | I always liked the story of Joey "The Doves" Aiuppa shooting the 1949 fish while "on the lamb" and selling it to Spray. The mount was indeed well done, but I highly doubt that if you ever had a chance to get in the glass and check girth, it would come in over 31 inches. At least uncle Lou was "fortunate" enough to have a 25k insurance policy on the mount before the bar caught fire. Someone said follow the money... I believe Spray left that money to the FWFHOF... It would make a fantastic film, starring Danny Devito.
Edited by MuskyMatt71 3/6/2017 9:19 AM
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | MuskyMatt71 - 3/6/2017 9:17 AM
I believe Spray left that money to the FWFHOF... It would make a fantastic film, starring Danny Devito.
Isn't Devito taller than Louie was ? |
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Location: Minnetonka | Depends on how far up the hill he is standing and how low the camera angle is. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | Jerry Newman - 3/5/2017 6:00 PM
I never said that’s as big as they get and think you must have inadvertently glazed over the keywords in my statement like “about”, “Hayward”, and “months” in an attempt to prove your point. I don't want to nitpick either but the statistics Steve provided certainly support my statement, and would guess that anyone reading this who fishes Hayward regularly (including Scott) would probably agree that an inland 53” would be fairly hard to come by in the short period of time that Louie had to work with.
Guilty as charged on the “nitpicking” and agree that 53” 35# is "about" the upper range. I’d hardly call the links Steve provided “statistics” though. The three 50+ fish I’ve caught in the area were never posted on a resort’s “musky board”, and none were caught on the Chippewa Flowage. That said, I’d have to agree that the Hayward area isn’t the place you go with a time constraint to ensure you net a 50”+ fish. Even without a time constraint for that matter. To suggest that they are as rare as hen’s teeth isn't exactly accurate either.
Jerry Newman - 3/5/2017 6:00 PM
On that note I think that if Hayward really wants to promote their muskie fishing, they should do so honestly and would be much better served promoting hard-working guys like Scott that really embody the essence of the sport, rather than a scoundrel like Louie. I agree that Scott is a great example of what's possible, but on the other hand you still have guy’s like John Dettloff who has fished the Chippewa Flowage his entire life without even catching a single 50” muskie… yet has the audacity to make an outlandish statement like this (from the link Steve provided).
I’m well aware of the history on this and while it’s somewhat embarrassing I’ll repeat what I replied to one of Larry’s posts - follow the money. Regardless of your and Larry’s attempts to inform people of the truth, the general public will believe what they want to believe and as long as the two factions can sell and profit from the BS, they will. As P.T. Barnum said, “There’s a sucker born every minute”.
Jerry Newman - 3/5/2017 6:00 PM
“The Chippewa Flowage is home to some of the biggest muskies in the musky world and holds the current all-tackle world record – a giant muskie, caught by Louie Spray, that tipped the scales at 69 ponds, 11 ounces and was 5 feet, 3 inches in length!
Clearly a lie.
Jerry Newman - 3/5/2017 6:00 PM
“Are there larger muskies than the current world record that still swim the fabled waters of the Big Chip’ Who knows – maybe you could be the next lucky angler”
Typical slimy salesmanship. Misleading ? Indeed ! We all have our theories (mine is that there is no world record musky in the Chip) but unless you drain the entire flowage and sort through all of them it can’t be proven either way.
Jerry Newman - 3/5/2017 6:00 PM
If you want to take issue with someone misrepresenting the areas muskie… maybe you should start with him?
Don’t you mean “them” ? IMHO, neither are worth the time of day. It should be fairly obvious by now that their stance on truth won't be changed. They already have far too much invested in this side show. |
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| Although The Chippewa flowage might not be able to produce consistent quality now days that doesn't mean that it didn't in its earlier years of life. The Chippewa flowage is a flowage. Flowages change dramatically with age. Newly flooded timber and swamps are alot more fertile in their first years vs 100 years later. I grew up on a flowage and it changed considerably in its fertility the years I lived there.
The Chippewa was filled in 1924 so it would have still been in its early stage of life around Louies day. Dont underrate new bodies of water for kicking out big fish, especially flowages.
Edited by 4amuskie 3/6/2017 3:21 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | If it did kick out a record size fish, maybe some day we'll see a picture of it. Haven't so far. |
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| sworrall - 3/6/2017 3:23 PM
If it did kick out a record size fish, maybe some day we'll see a picture of it. Haven't so far.
I didnt say it kicked out a record fish but I'm not naive enough to know it was a different system back in the day with the potential to have some rather large extraordinary predators roaming around in its 15,00 acres. |
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Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | Those "extraordinary predators" appeared in the Chip in 1942 when A.J Ross caught a 55-pounder and John Fleming caught a 52-pounder. Since then, there have been NO muskies caught there over 50-pounds! The largest up to that time had been a 45-2 in 1938.
1942 must have been the "peak year" for the Chip as there two 45-pounders caught there as well as the two 50-pounders, followed by a 46-9 in 1944; a 43-4 and a 46-0 in 1946; a 49-12 and a 45-pounder in 1952; a 45-8 and a 48-8 in 1954 with not many others over 40-pounds during that time frame (and of course no one knows how many of those were "padded"). 1942 to 1954 had to be the ultimate window there as you don't need any extra hands to count the muskies over 40-pounds from there since then.
And so, the question remains: "What have you done for us lately Chip?"
Edited by Larry Ramsell 3/6/2017 4:31 PM
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Location: St. Lawrence River | That's some pretty compelling stuff right there, Larry. And that's all I need to know. Fact of the matter is the Chip doesn't even probably make a top 20 list for giant muskies. |
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| AAAAhhhhh. The good ole' days. Life was sure good back then without all that new fangled stuff we have now days. Wonder they got any at all. How the heck did they know where they were going without a GPS. Howd they know the water depth. Howd they get hold a their buddies to know where they were biting. Howd they keep their boats on the spot with no spot lock? Heck, howd they even start the motor with no key. 15,000 acres must a felt like the ocean. Aaaaaahhh, relaxing. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | Larry Ramsell - 3/6/2017 4:28 PM
And so, the question remains: "What have you done for us lately Chip?"
It's put some nice crappies on my table ! There's something that Steve can appreciate. |
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| There is such a thing as "new reservoir syndrome", but to my knowledge that involves greater numbers of large fish from the first few year classes of stocking and not exceptionally large fish. I'm no biologist, but I'd say muskies get as large as the biggest fish we're seeing today and that's about as big as they've ever gotten or ever will get unless something very dramatic happens with their habitat and genetics. |
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Location: oswego, il | Jeff, for the record, the chip flooded many natural lakes like chief for example which had some nice muskies in it. |
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| The witch hunt of Art Lawton by Larry Ramsell and John Detloff on behalf of the NFWFHOF, and the continued backing of the Spray hoaxes have lead me to boycott fishing in Wisconsin. My goal is to get a tiger or true from every state and province that has them with the exception of Wisconsin. That might possibly change if the Spray hoaxes are thrown out someday. I had the chance to fish Middle Eau Claire Lake with my great uncle Aldrich Lehto but refused. Aldrich's wife was Hilda Johnson (Boroo). She asked me if I wanted to see "photos" of Bob's big muskie and brought out two or three pictures of the Malo fish which I instantly recognized. I wish I'd borrowed them and made copies as both my great uncle and her died a long time ago and I could never find out who got the old photos. |
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Location: The desert | true tiger tamer - 4/24/2017 7:07 PM
The witch hunt of Art Lawton by Larry Ramsell and John Detloff on behalf of the NFWFHOF, and the continued backing of the Spray hoaxes have lead me to boycott fishing in Wisconsin. My goal is to get a tiger or true from every state and province that has them with the exception of Wisconsin. That might possibly change if the Spray hoaxes are thrown out someday. I had the chance to fish Middle Eau Claire Lake with my great uncle Aldrich Lehto but refused. Aldrich's wife was Hilda Johnson (Boroo). She asked me if I wanted to see "photos" of Bob's big muskie and brought out two or three pictures of the Malo fish which I instantly recognized. I wish I'd borrowed them and made copies as both my great uncle and her died a long time ago and I could never find out who got the old photos.
Wisconsin doesn't need you.
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Location: Apparently where the Muskie aren't | Pointerpride102 - 4/24/2017 7:13 PM
true tiger tamer - 4/24/2017 7:07 PM
The witch hunt of Art Lawton by Larry Ramsell and John Detloff on behalf of the NFWFHOF, and the continued backing of the Spray hoaxes have lead me to boycott fishing in Wisconsin. My goal is to get a tiger or true from every state and province that has them with the exception of Wisconsin. That might possibly change if the Spray hoaxes are thrown out someday. I had the chance to fish Middle Eau Claire Lake with my great uncle Aldrich Lehto but refused. Aldrich's wife was Hilda Johnson (Boroo). She asked me if I wanted to see "photos" of Bob's big muskie and brought out two or three pictures of the Malo fish which I instantly recognized. I wish I'd borrowed them and made copies as both my great uncle and her died a long time ago and I could never find out who got the old photos.
Wisconsin doesn't need you.
More muskie for us |
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Location: Elk River, Minnesota | With the way things are set up at the FWFHOF and the politics behind it, the only way the spray fish will be dethroned is when a legitimate 70 pounder hits the net, is extremely well documented, kept, and weighed. Even then, I have a sneaking suspicion the new record would some how be manipulated to be debunked.
If (when would be a much nicer way of being able to say it) that happens and is accepted, it will be a very happy day in the muskie world. It would put all this crap to rest, letting the folklore of back then be just that...folklore.
Steve |
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | true tiger tamer - 4/24/2017 7:07 PM
The witch hunt of Art Lawton by Larry Ramsell and John Detloff on behalf of the NFWFHOF, and the continued backing of the Spray hoaxes have lead me to boycott fishing in Wisconsin. My goal is to get a tiger or true from every state and province that has them with the exception of Wisconsin. That might possibly change if the Spray hoaxes are thrown out someday. I had the chance to fish Middle Eau Claire Lake with my great uncle Aldrich Lehto but refused. Aldrich's wife was Hilda Johnson (Boroo). She asked me if I wanted to see "photos" of Bob's big muskie and brought out two or three pictures of the Malo fish which I instantly recognized. I wish I'd borrowed them and made copies as both my great uncle and her died a long time ago and I could never find out who got the old photos.
I hear ya.
A terrible football team, a crumbling hockey dynasty, and outrageous tolls have similarly led me to boycott fishing Muskies in Illinois too
Edited by Musky Brian 4/25/2017 7:44 AM
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Location: Aurora | dfkiii - 3/4/2017 5:29 PM
Jerry Newman - 3/4/2017 1:35 PM
What's the largest muskie you could put your hands on (by hook or crook) in just a few months in 1949 Hayward? The real size of this fish and answer is about 35lbs and 53”… same as it is today.
Yup, there are no bigger fish in WI. Maybe you should try fishing with Scott Kieper.
Or Scott Walker for that matter, if you're not opposed to his innovative use of equipment.
All kidding aside, the Chip is a must see & fish if yer a serial dragon chaser. Do it right and stay in the bunkhouse at Indian Trail, buy one of John's marked up maps to reduce the chance of damaging your prop/lower unit, use the communal shower, pay tribute to Cheezio before heading out to fish the graveyard with nothing longer than 6 inches, enjoy some pizza, beer & Ghosttails in the Red Bar after, tour the old mounts at the Moccasin Bar, etc..
Buddy of mine took me once and i'll never forget it.
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| Pointerpride102 - 3/2/2017 1:15 PM
Spray's record is legit and Cutler is elite. You're batting 1.000
wrecked |
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Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | This thread should have been titled "The Records Spray Has Stolen"!!! |
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Location: Twin Cities | I've fished the Chip a fair amount and have spent some time at Indian Trail. Really fun atmosphere and most evenings the bar is full of muskie guys telling great stories! Maybe there aren't any world record fish swimming around there but it sure is great body of water I'd recommend to anyone. |
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| I've fished the Chip a fair amount and have spent some time at Indian Trail. Really fun atmosphere and most evenings the bar is full of muskie guys telling great stories! Maybe there aren't any world record fish swimming around there but it sure is great body of water I'd recommend to anyone.
Well said. |
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