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| Does any one know of a source to buy headlock type lips?Thanks! |
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| try genesisperformance |
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| Why not get creative and design your own lip? |
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Location: Glen Ellyn Il | I made a Headlock for myself and I made the lip from 1/4 inch Polycarbonate works just fine
Gino |
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| Working on getting a Poly Carbonate Lip made. Possibly 3/16". Never had any problems with a lip this thick. Anybody interested.
Dick |
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Location: Hayward, WI | mlure - 11/25/2016 3:48 PM
Working on getting a Poly Carbonate Lip made. Possibly 3/16". Never had any problems with a lip this thick. Anybody interested.
Dick
I gotta think you would have some interest with that! I'm not a high volume lure maker, but I think I would have to get a couple.
Tucker |
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| We are at present getting ready to laser cut some 3/16" poly lips. Hope it works out. Should know shortly.
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Location: Morgantown, WV | I made a few 6" headlock style crankbaits. You can cut 1/16" aluminum really easily on a band saw. WD40 helps keep it lubricated. The key is to go slow and let the saw do the work. |
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| I cut some out of 1/8" aluminum plate. Coping saw and a file to smooth the edges, worked fine. |
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| I will say this as nicely as possible.
Pretty pathetic that guys have to rip off someone elses work and design to make money!
I'm not talking about lips/body styles that are generally available to the public in "do it yourself" tutorials or internet & lip cutouts that have been around for 50-100 years.
No respect.
No creativity.
Just copy, copy, copy.
Half of this industry has turned into a joke.
Be creative, innovate, design, fail, fail again, then succeed, you have a brain, use it.
Show some respect to yourself and to others.
Edited by Muskymilleman 12/6/2016 2:42 PM
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Location: Ashland WI | Muskymilleman - 12/6/2016 2:41 PM
I will say this as nicely as possible.
Pretty pathetic that guys have to rip off someone elses work and design to make money!
I'm not talking about lips/body styles that are generally available to the public in "do it yourself" tutorials or internet & lip cutouts that have been around for 50-100 years.
No respect.
No creativity.
Just copy, copy, copy.
Half of this industry has turned into a joke.
Be creative, innovate, design, fail, fail again, then succeed, you have a brain, use it.
Show some respect to yourself and to others.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery....
I also don't think anyone was talking about making a bunch of money off of it. |
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| "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...."
?
Please ask the few million patent owners, designers, innovators and originators how flattered they felt after they've been ripped off after working hard to get where they are. The vast majority would strongly disagree with that statement someone made once upon a time.
Money or no money, it is the lack of respect where the problem is.
Have fun in life, have fun making YOUR lures, enjoy catching fish.
Best of luck to you all.
Edited by Muskymilleman 12/6/2016 5:45 PM
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Location: Ashland WI | Muskymilleman - 12/6/2016 5:43 PM
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...."
?
Please ask the few million patent owners, designers, innovators and originators how flattered they felt after they've been ripped off after working hard to get where they are. The vast majority would strongly disagree with that statement someone made once upon a time.
Money or no money, it is the lack of respect where the problem is.
Have fun in life, have fun making YOUR lures, enjoy catching fish.
Best of luck to you all.
Is there a patent on headlock lips?
If not, why wouldn't someone try to copy it? Clearly it works well. Sometimes it does not pay to try to reinvent the wheel. |
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| No.
If you understand patents you'll realize more then likely they will not not offer one on a fishing lure lip.
Once again it goes back to honor and respect which clearly a lot of people don't care about. Be CREATIVE! It really isn't difficult.
There is lots of different ways to make a lure walk. THINK!
Enjoy yourself in which ever path you choose to take. Some will take easy way, some will take the road less travelled and some will blaze their own trail.
Goodluck to you all.
Edited by Muskymilleman 12/7/2016 8:11 AM
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Location: Ashland WI | Muskymilleman - 12/7/2016 8:08 AM
No.
If you understand patents you'll realize more then likely they will not not offer one on a fishing lure lip.
Once again it goes back to honor and respect which clearly a lot of people don't care about. Be CREATIVE! It really isn't difficult.
There is lots of different ways to make a lure walk. THINK!
Enjoy yourself in which ever path you choose to take. Some will take easy way, some will take the road less travelled and some will blaze their own trail.
Goodluck to you all.
I don't really have a horse in this race because I do not make any lures. I do think you are making it into a bit bigger deal than it is.
Since the beginning of time man has tried to make a better, cheaper mousetrap. I guess I don't see anything wrong with someone taking someone else's idea and expanding on it. Again, this happens all the time. Is there something wrong with someone building there own Double ten lures?
I think this aids in innovation and is quite possibly why patents only last so long.
And to your last quote, if the easy way is the best way, that is certainly the way I would choose to go. Why blaze your own trail if you can't get to the same end result anyway? |
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Location: Waukee, IA | Muskymilleman - 12/7/2016 8:08 AM
No.
If you understand patents you'll realize more then likely they will not not offer one on a fishing lure lip.
Once again it goes back to honor and respect which clearly a lot of people don't care about. Be CREATIVE! It really isn't difficult.
There is lots of different ways to make a lure walk. THINK!
Enjoy yourself in which ever path you choose to take. Some will take easy way, some will take the road less travelled and some will blaze their own trail.
Goodluck to you all.
Whine much?
Some people just want to make a lure themselves that has a specific action. Plus your entire argument is completely idiotic when you take into consideration that there is really only two lip types, square and round bill. Everything else is just a slight variation of those two. Nobody else gets all ruffled up over it.
But since this is a troll account I assume all logical argument is lost on you. Troll on, princess! |
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| This is a sub forum for bait builders to talk about the particulars of bait building. If we want to talk about what makes a particular bait tick, then that’s what this forum provides us to do. If builders want to make a lure for themselves, for whatever reason, they are free to do so. If you don’t want to contribute to the conversation, then don’t. If you want to complain about someone copying and somehow affecting someone else’s livelihood there are other places to do that. Please save your holier than thou integrity bs. for elsewhere. The people here like to make lures for themselves, maybe they want to make a tallywacker or a grandma or maybe a headlock. Even it’s actually taking a caliper to another lure they will still enjoy their hobby of bait making and take pride in what they make. Bait builders have been copying each other’s bait concepts for a long long time. Get over it. Heck the Make-a-lure company’s whole scheme is “use our products to copy baits for yourself”. If Moore’s sees market demand for a shape of a lip then he is free to do so with nothing to stop him, that’s his business. That being said there is much more going on in a headlock than the shape of the lip. If you want to make bait to do what a headlock does you need a tall sided bait for the flash. You need a buoyant bait weighted so it floats barley upright. To make a bait wander you need weights widely spaced with it balanced towards the rear. The shape of the lip does not cause the wander, it’s the front to back balance. All baits wander, it’s just a matter of speed. You want to get the balance so it wanders at the speed you want. If you are going to use Moore’s new polycarbonate lip you will need weight in the nose to make up the difference between the weight of aluminum. The feature I find most unique in the headlock is the clevis pin. And I wouldn’t recommend using it in a polycarbonate lip. When you tune a bait you can only make it so wild before it blows out, what the clevis pin in the lip does is allows you to tune it just a bit more wild. The pin puts the line tie offset from the surface of the lip. This gives leverage for the wild bait to be pulled back to center and not blow out. I unscrupulously and shamelessly copied this idea and make some baits that way. I haven’t lost any sleep over it and it works great. Kudos to whoever first used a clevis pin in a bait.
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| Awesome baits and post MRichardson |
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| tkuntz in response to your message.
Making a lure for yourself because you can't get one, or you are on a budget is understandable, i'm not a fan of it personally.
When someone asks "is there any interest?" I will use logic and assume it is to make money. This is where the problem is, ripping off a very specific design.
There is a lot more then two styles of lips, if you read all of my posts above you will have a better understanding of what I'm specifically talking about, I'm not talking about the tracing the number 17 lip in Rollie n Helens. I had clearly stated this is not what I was talking about in my above posts, maybe you missed that.
If you like someones design and want to use it to make money because you have kids to feed, then maybe a simply call or message them and simply ask of they would be okay with that. Some guys might actually say yes!!!
Maybe talk to the maker of the Headlock's and any other baitmaker who has been innovative and had there work ripped off for profit by someone else and then gladly quote their responses below.
As for trolling. I prefer to cast.
Edited by Muskymilleman 12/7/2016 11:41 AM
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| MRichardson
Yes, there is a lot more going on then the shape of the lip for the action on a Headlock, fairly simple stuff to figure out for a seasoned baitmaker.
Looking at your baits is clear you've liked the idea of a clevis pin on your lips, more then likely you got the idea from Headlocks (correct me if that is incorrect) that is your choice. But instead of copying the entire lip, you created a different shape all together. Yes there are obvious similarities but you made the attemp to change it, which I respect, there was at least the effort made.
Just out of curiosity, would you be okay if someone made an exact mold of your bait and started selling it to make money?
Just an honest question.
As for the future, I will gladly start a seperate thread somewhere else on the page if the moderators find that my post has nothing to do with baitmaking.
Cheers
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| Muskymilleman, I’m not sure who did it first, but I first saw the clevis pin on Duff’s bait, then I saw it on Joe’s, then on Lee’s and then on a few others. I then saw the pin’s for sale in the Moore’s catalogue and wanted to figure them out. That’s what I get out of bait building, the learning, challenges, and figuring out. I’m not in it to put food on the table though, for me just a hobby biz that barley pays for supplies. I do understand the feelings involved with someone copying an idea of mine, and I have seen all sides of it. For my day job I do design and development, I’ve had my ideas copied and I’ve been asked to design my around patented products. I’ve been assigned projects where if I wanted to keep my job I had to travel overseas and teach manufacturing techniques that cost many American jobs. I have seen the very first bait I designed, the Hellhound, copied many times since then. For me I have accepted that it will happen. The thing about innovators is when everybody else is trying to figure out and play catch up, they have moved on to the next idea and enjoy sharing in what they've learned. Some things I do for money, some things I do for free. It's a dog eat dog world
Edited by MRichardson 12/7/2016 12:49 PM
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| Valid arguments on both sides of this one. However, copying the Headlock lip design is a minor infraction compared to what some companies have done... |
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| Wow! If I wanted to hear this much b*&^/#!g, I'd just tell my wife I'm going fishin! Lively talk......but a little over the top |
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Location: St. Lawrence River | Muskymilleman - 12/7/2016 9:08 AM
No.
If you understand patents you'll realize more then likely they will not not offer one on a fishing lure lip.
Once again it goes back to honor and respect which clearly a lot of people don't care about. Be CREATIVE! It really isn't difficult.
There is lots of different ways to make a lure walk. THINK!
Enjoy yourself in which ever path you choose to take. Some will take easy way, some will take the road less travelled and some will blaze their own trail.
Goodluck to you all.
You are a tool. This is the BASEMENT bait section, not the large scale manufacturing section. No one here is looking to make money from anyone's design, but simply trying to duplicate some of their favorites to see if they can get it done with a homemade version. Go preach somewhere else. |
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Location: Detroit River | Muskymilleman - 12/6/2016 3:41 PM I will say this as nicely as possible. Pretty pathetic that guys have to rip off someone elses work and design to make money! I'm not talking about lips/body styles that are generally available to the public in "do it yourself" tutorials or internet & lip cutouts that have been around for 50-100 years. No respect. No creativity. Just copy, copy, copy. Half of this industry has turned into a joke. Be creative, innovate, design, fail, fail again, then succeed, you have a brain, use it. Show some respect to yourself and to others. How is making the lip from polycarbonate vs. aluminum copying. The polycarbonate is thicker, which will give the lure less vibration than the thinner aluminum lip plus it can also affect the depth of the lure. There's plenty of older saltwater lures that have large aluminum lips so how do you know that the Headlock lip wasn't copied or inspired from them? |
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| Wow - intense.
Anyways - I have been working on a bait that is similar to Jon Bondy's original a bondy Bait.
I have designed a similar jig but in a very realistic profile. I used his as a starting point. I make them for me and my buddies but sell some to offset my costs, but not for a living. i don't feel this is wrong but have worried that this would offend him even though it has already been done by other companies who also had the same thing done to them. His lure is very unique, whereas a soft plastic paddletai swimbait is not (I have a variation of that too).
It's a gray area as very few lure ideas are actually unique or new, let alone patented.
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Location: Detroit River | Landry - 12/13/2016 1:53 PM Wow - intense. Anyways - I have been working on a bait that is similar to Jon Bondy's original a bondy Bait. I have designed a similar jig but in a very realistic profile. I used his as a starting point. I make them for me and my buddies but sell some to offset my costs, but not for a living. i don't feel this is wrong but have worried that this would offend him even though it has already been done by other companies who also had the same thing done to them. His lure is very unique, whereas a soft plastic paddletai swimbait is not (I have a variation of that too). It's a gray area as very few lure ideas are actually unique or new, let alone patented. Yes a couple of big name companies did basically come out with similar jigs but they haven't won people over compared to the Original Bondy or Bondy Wobbler. There's also been local guys to LSC & the DR that have come out with their own jig version's that had more detail & they were kind enough to give me a bait or 2 to try but they didn't win me over either. Of all the guys I've talked with regarding other musky jigs that came after the Bondy, none of them were impressed with the other jigs other than they had more detail. Details only help sell the bait to the fishermen, they don't help sell it to the fish. The popularity of the Water Wolf Shadzilla has others coming out with their versions as well. I'm going to skip the new ones & go with making my own larger version of my favorite bass paddle tail due to the fact that I've caught numerous muskies on them while bass fishing. Hopefully I don't procrastinate too much. FYI, the Original Bondy does have a realistic profile as it's the profile of a baby freshwater drum (sheephead), which musky in the DR & LSC eat a lot of.
Edited by Zib 12/13/2016 2:04 PM
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| I agree with everything above^^^
I have great respect for Jon - he is a good guy and his simple lures work great and catch fish. I'm not trying to steal business from him. I just like the artistic side of bait making. The fish don't notice the little details.
I have 5 baits I am pouring - none of them are earth-shattering new fishing ideas but all except the bondy jig mentioned are unique or different than what's out there.
I believe there is nothing wrong with stealing ideas and tweaking them. If a guy clones baits for himself and his buddies - good for him and who cares. Does it affect the original bait maker on the bottom line. Not likely. People are gonna buy Jons stuff due to his hard earned and deserved reputation. Buying a similar custom bait is going to be something they do just because of their Muskie lure and fishing addiction.
This is a basement baits forum not a commercial forum as mentioned.
Edited by Landry 12/13/2016 4:27 PM
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| I made a solid plastic paddletAil swimbait as well with a twist. It runs different than a shadzilla. I stole and blended designs from Berkeley Hollow Bellies, Salt Shakers and Shadzilla. Mine moves different than all three but that is to be expected with swimbaits as they are touchy. Referring to these baits allowed me to get in the ballpark of where I wanted to be.
Technology advancements work on this same principle and often flirts with the line regarding patents infringement |
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| The unique design shape and use of clevis pin are the main factors I'm speaking of, material used is a moot point.
Please read my all of my posts in this thread and I've clearly stated the main issue at hand.
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| JakeStCroixSkis - 12/13/2016 12:33 AM
Muskymilleman - 12/7/2016 9:08 AM
No.
If you understand patents you'll realize more then likely they will not not offer one on a fishing lure lip.
Once again it goes back to honor and respect which clearly a lot of people don't care about. Be CREATIVE! It really isn't difficult.
There is lots of different ways to make a lure walk. THINK!
Enjoy yourself in which ever path you choose to take. Some will take easy way, some will take the road less travelled and some will blaze their own trail.
Goodluck to you all.
You are a tool. This is the BASEMENT bait section, not the large scale manufacturing section. No one here is looking to make money from anyone's design, but simply trying to duplicate some of their favorites to see if they can get it done with a homemade version. Go preach somewhere else.
Your response couldn't be more counterfactual.
Fourth response down from the top - A person who is involved in lure or lure component manufacturing and distribution trying to make money from anothers design.
Please know your facts.
Good luck. |
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Location: Morgantown, WV | Perhaps no one should have tried to copy the wheel, steam engine, light bulb, or any other great inventions. "That wheel is a great way to move stuff around, but I can't copy that design though so I'll just remain stationary until I figure out some unique method of mechanism of transportation."
I own a couple of headlocks. They are beautiful and very well made. The action is really unique. I haven't caught anything on them yet but this is probably due to not fishing them the right way or not enough time in the water or just bad luck. I love the idea of the line tie for the properties mentioned above. Whoever developed this is a genius. The Muskies where i fish eat a lot of shad so it stands to reason that a lure in the 5-6" range might be good. I wanted to build a smaller bait with the same type of lip. I will never sell my lures. They take me way too long to build and I would starve to death if I tried to do this as a source of income. I have great respect for anyone who can. |
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| Light bulb, wheel??? Oh boy....you nailed it!
One of the first founding major court cases in American history that led up to strict laws on patents and designs involved the lightbuld. As for the wheel...it would be similar to copying a specific tread pattern, which there are thousands of patents for different tread patterns and other design specifications.
There is a difference between lighting a room and copying the way you do it.
You couldn't have proven my point any better.
Goodluck. |
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| I am not arguing who invented the crankbait lip by the way... |
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Location: Waukee, IA | You proved the opposite point with your tread rant. All that you need to do is change 1 insignificant pattern line and call it your own with zero affect on the final product. Same with the headlock lip, make it 1/32" shorter and it's no longer a headlock lip but you can bet it does the same thing.
Bigger question, who urinated in your cheerios? |
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Location: Lakeville, MN | If someone is interested in getting their own lip designs laser cut i can help, but to copy someone elses lip design i will not help you out |
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Location: Morgantown, WV | Thanks for the history lesson. |
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| tkuntz - 12/14/2016 10:23 AM
You proved the opposite point with your tread rant. All that you need to do is change 1 insignificant pattern line and call it your own with zero affect on the final product. Same with the headlock lip, make it 1/32" shorter and it's no longer a headlock lip but you can bet it does the same thing.
Bigger question, who urinated in your cheerios?
No. |
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| genesisperformance - 12/14/2016 10:25 AM
If someone is interested in getting their own lip designs laser cut i can help, but to copy someone elses lip design i will not help you out
^^^^^THIS^^^^^
Is what respect for another designer is.
Thank you Genesisperformance.
You get it! |
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| genesisperformance - 12/14/2016 10:25 AM
If someone is interested in getting their own lip designs laser cut i can help, but to copy someone elses lip design i will not help you out
Do you need dxf or similar files or do you create them? |
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Location: Waukee, IA | We taking bets on if Genesisperformance and muskymilleman operate from the same I.P. address? This was a well crafted advertisement for laser cut lips. |
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| Is there a patent on the clevis/lip you are talking about Mille? |
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Location: Ashland WI | thescottith - 12/14/2016 2:01 PM
Is there a patent on the clevis/lip you are talking about Mille?
No. Mille thinks it is dis-honorable to copy it, even without a patent. |
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| I have a headlock and thought when I bought it that I had seen the pin clevis thing on another bait but I'm second guessing myself. Duff has such a following he is set and I dont see why someone copying an unpatented Idea would bother him one bit being he is super chill and cool.
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| There is not a patent on the clevis pin/headlock lip combo. It simply would not be cost effective and it would be highly doubtful a patent would be granted because the clevis pin is used in a variety of industries and the Headlock did not invent the clevis pin or the fishing lure lip. The only thing you could try to patent in this case is the specific shape which would nearly impossible to do. Unfortunately you cannot patent a "idea" in the USA. |
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| On that perfect note, why dont you stop blowing this all out of proportion, and let the original dude just try to get a fricken lip for a bait he wants to make. Honestly, your ranting has literally turned something that is a fun hobby to this man into history lessons on court cases and why he should get his balls cut off for wanting to make his own bait for fun. (Save the "show me where I said that!?!?" Comments, I'm just trying to sound like a giant buffoon too, because you make it look so fun). Honestly it's strange having to stoop to this level to another adult, but I feel like you need a direct statement, so: Dude. Shut up. Save this garbage for somewhere else and stop spreading your feces on everyones pancakes. Call it a night early and see if you wake up on the right side of the bed tomorrow somehow for once.
I realize you probably stopped reading a while ago and skipped to the end to try to come up with an egotistical retort again, but heres a quick simple summary.
1. Throughout time, things and items have been invented
2. People like those items.
3. Someties they are expensive or hard to get, or hell it just might be fun to try to make one of your own for fun
4. "Fun" is a thing people like to have sometimes, I highly recommend trying.
5. I'll try to get in contact with the Wright brothers living relatives so you can tell them how mad they should be all these other people stole their idea for a flying machine.
Dont reply back to me, no one here wants to hear from you anymore.
Edited by dougturd 12/14/2016 6:37 PM
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| Dougturd
Your points have missed the target. Swing and a miss, next batter up.
Have fun 
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Location: mercer wi | Wasn't the original question " where to get headlock TYPE lips". Wasn't asking to get the acual lips. |
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Location: MN | upnortdave - 12/15/2016 5:42 AM
Wasn't the original question " where to get headlock TYPE lips". Wasn't asking to get the acual lips.
Dave and Doug you're making too much sense for this discussion. This is WINTERNET!
Edited by NathanH 12/15/2016 6:04 AM
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Location: St. Lawrence River | Muskymilleman I better not ever see you out on the water doing figure 8's.. it is not your design, and I'll be pretty unimpressed about it :p :p
Joking at this point.. |
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| That's actually pretty funny. |
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Location: Waukee, IA | JakeStCroixSkis - 12/15/2016 10:42 AM
Muskymilleman I better not ever see you out on the water doing figure 8's.. it is not your design, and I'll be pretty unimpressed about it :p :p
Joking at this point..
Just change the nomenclature. Instead of a "figure 8" call it an "infinity finish." Problem solved |
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| Muskymilleman - 12/14/2016 9:33 PM
Dougturd
Your points have missed the target. Swing and a miss, next batter up.
Have fun
MY POINTS MISSED THE TARGET? Are you for real? Your entire incoherent babbling missed the target of this entire post. Hes looking for headlock "type" lips, and you changed the whole theme. Real cute with the baseball theme though. If that sticks with you better, then Id say everyone elses comments are solid hits, whereas you couldnt get a hit if you were on a date with bill cosby |
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Location: oswego, il | I am glad the originator of the mister twister is not on this site...... |
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Location: mercer wi | Crankbaitman hasn't posted on this thread since he originally posted the question. I hope he didn't get peeed that his simple quest to build something for himself got pirated.
I hope you find what your looking for. If you do please post pics. Good luck with the build and water time for your bait.
Sorry crankbaitman. |
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| dougturd - 12/15/2016 1:17 PM
Muskymilleman - 12/14/2016 9:33 PM
Dougturd
Your points have missed the target. Swing and a miss, next batter up.
Have fun
MY POINTS MISSED THE TARGET? Are you for real? Your entire incoherent babbling missed the target of this entire post. Hes looking for headlock "type" lips, and you changed the whole theme. Real cute with the baseball theme though. If that sticks with you better, then Id say everyone elses comments are solid hits, whereas you couldnt get a hit if you were on a date with bill cosby
Yes, the majority of your points missed the target completely, more then likely because you thought I was aiming them at the author the entire time which I was not except for the very first comment.
My posts were not directed at the person looking for lips. Read my posts and my main point is focused on the person trying to sell, copy and distribute headlock or headlock "type" lips and profit off another persons hard work in which I do not personally think is right. I have a right to an opinion as do you.
The only comment directed towards the person looking for lips was when I simply suggested he possibly try designing his own type of lips.
Goodluck.
Edited by Muskymilleman 12/15/2016 6:01 PM
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Location: MN | Muskymilleman - 12/15/2016 5:59 PM
dougturd - 12/15/2016 1:17 PM
Muskymilleman - 12/14/2016 9:33 PM
Dougturd
Your points have missed the target. Swing and a miss, next batter up.
Have fun
MY POINTS MISSED THE TARGET? Are you for real? Your entire incoherent babbling missed the target of this entire post. Hes looking for headlock "type" lips, and you changed the whole theme. Real cute with the baseball theme though. If that sticks with you better, then Id say everyone elses comments are solid hits, whereas you couldnt get a hit if you were on a date with bill cosby
Yes, the majority of your points missed the target completely, more then likely because you thought I was aiming them at the author the entire time which I was not except for the very first comment.
My posts were not directed at the person looking for lips. Read my posts and my main point is focused on the person trying to sell, copy and distribute headlock or headlock "type" lips and profit off another persons hard work in which I do not personally think is right. I have a right to an opinion as do you.
The only comment directed towards the person looking for lips was when I simply suggested he possibly try designing his own type of lips.
Goodluck.
I have to disagree. I read back through and it appears to me the only one asking if there is any interest, presumably to buy, is Dick. He's the nicest guy in the world, and he's asking if anyone would be interested in laser cut polycarbonate lips, not headlock lips. To me you have come off as a complete arse in this thread. |
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| He is a very nice person 100%, a great guy who has been around a long time and extremely helpful to many in this industry. I will gladly support him further down the line. I just don't agree with the lazer cut headlock lips if he chooses to make them. Next time, I will simply send him a pm.
Pretty sure he was talking about lazer cutting Headlock or Headlock type lips though...since it is a "Headlock lip" thread, if he was talking about cutting random lips then I will gladly apologize to him.
Cheers.
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Location: oswego, il | I wonder how many people have read this thread and know what booth they will pass up or just buy somebody elses walking crankbait. Your hurting the brand. |
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Location: MN | ToddM - 12/16/2016 5:44 AM
I wonder how many people have read this thread and know what booth they will pass up or just buy somebody elses walking crankbait. Your hurting the brand.
X2 |
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Posts: 46
| The hellraiser psycho path used this lip design long before the headlock.
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IMG_0537.JPG (12KB - 623 downloads)
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Location: Ashland WI | ^^^^^^
Gasp........
That can't be..... |
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| my main point is focused on the person trying to sell, copy and distribute headlock or headlock "type" lips and profit off another persons hard work in which I do not personally think is right. I have a right to an opinion as do you.
The reality is that once Supernatural Big Baits put the Headlock out there for sale, and it was selling out at $80 a bait as fast as they could make them, the design was going to be copied and used by others. Both to make lures for personal use as well as to make knock-off lures for sale and profit.
Like it or dislike it, this is the reality.
Predictable, obvious, reality.
So, you can pee your opinion into the wind all you want about the way things "should" be, and it won't change the reality of things one bit. You just get wet. Once you accept reality is as it is, you are freed up to move on to doing something more effective.
Like for example, maybe Supernatural should just start selling the lips themselves. My bet is that most basement lure makers would happily buy it directly from them. They'd expand their revenue stream on a part of the bait that's less labor intensive and free up the emotional energy wasted on all the "lip copy" discussion.
Crazy, huh?
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| I would care if it was the lip only that made them so good. Same size Supernaturals on for 6 days, but the same one was the one getting bit by the big girls.
Muskymilleman, I guess you wouldn't want a homemade DC10? I hope you only get your photos developed on Kodak paper too. |
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| You can see this on Supernatural's own website: "Duff Thury is a trained custom furniture maker by trade...and a muskie fisherman. So it was just a matter of time before the two combined. He honed his craft by mimicking existing lures like Jakes and Rapalas but made them much bigger. " https://www.supernaturalbigbaits.com/pages/about-us |
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| I like tater tots. |
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Location: oswego, il | Chemi - 12/16/2016 1:30 PM
You can see this on Supernatural's own website: "Duff Thury is a trained custom furniture maker by trade...and a muskie fisherman. So it was just a matter of time before the two combined. He honed his craft by mimicking existing lures like Jakes and Rapalas but made them much bigger. " https://www.supernaturalbigbaits.com/pages/about-us
I am going to jump off a building now! |
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| But mine goes to eleven... |
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Chemi - 12/16/2016 1:30 PM You can see this on Supernatural's own website: "Duff Thury is a trained custom furniture maker by trade...and a muskie fisherman. So it was just a matter of time before the two combined. He honed his craft by mimicking existing lures like Jakes and Rapalas but made them much bigger. " https://www.supernaturalbigbaits.com/pages/about-us This will be my last post in this thread. The rest of the quote pulled off the website.
"Duff Thury is a trained custom furniture maker by trade...and a muskie fisherman. So it was just a matter of time before the two combined. He honed his craft by mimicking existing lures like Jakes and Rapalas but made them much bigger. He quickly realized that he wanted to create his own unique lures after mastering the techniques and understanding the design principles of existing muskie crankbaits. After 6 years of R & D the first HeadLock came to be and the action was nothing short of ‘supernatural’. A couple years after that an old friend (Kevin Dickinson) talked him into making one that would run at slower speeds. This was achieved by taking the 12“ HeadLock profile and making it wider with a bigger and rounder lip. Now he had a bait...with no name. He challenged a friend who was a local guide (Matt Seifert/Muskie Mercenary Guide Service) that if he could catch 2 muskies over 50“ on it within the month he would name it the MattLock. Matt caught 4 over 50“ in the first 9 days...so the name was a lock!"
Goodluck.
Edited by Muskymilleman 12/16/2016 5:40 PM
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Location: Ashland WI | Muskymilleman - 12/16/2016 5:22 PM
Chemi - 12/16/2016 1:30 PM You can see this on Supernatural's own website: "Duff Thury is a trained custom furniture maker by trade...and a muskie fisherman. So it was just a matter of time before the two combined. He honed his craft by mimicking existing lures like Jakes and Rapalas but made them much bigger. " https://www.supernaturalbigbaits.com/pages/about-us This will be my last post in this thread. The rest of quote pulled off the website.
"Duff Thury is a trained custom furniture maker by trade...and a muskie fisherman. So it was just a matter of time before the two combined. He honed his craft by mimicking existing lures like Jakes and Rapalas but made them much bigger. He quickly realized that he wanted to create his own unique lures after mastering the techniques and understanding the design principles of existing muskie crankbaits. After 6 years of R & D the first HeadLock came to be and the action was nothing short of ‘supernatural’. A couple years after that an old friend (Kevin Dickinson) talked him into making one that would run at slower speeds. This was achieved by taking the 12“ HeadLock profile and making it wider with a bigger and rounder lip. Now he had a bait...with no name. He challenged a friend who was a local guide (Matt Seifert/Muskie Mercenary Guide Service) that if he could catch 2 muskies over 50“ on it within the month he would name it the MattLock. Matt caught 4 over 50“ in the first 9 days...so the name was a lock!"
Goodluck.
Disclaimer:. The following response is satire and not to be taken seriously.
I will paraphrase (milleman style):
When Duff was first making lures he was a dishonourable copycat. After some time he saw the light and realized that what he had been doing was wrong. He then chose to make his own baits, hopefully not being swayed at all by his years of copying.
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Posts: 46
| Now that it's been pointed out that the Headlock was not the first bait to use the lip design in question, it does make sense that Milleman would leave the discussion. Good luck! |
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| I don't see similarity between the hellraiser psycho lip and a headlock lip. What I'm I missing? |
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Location: oswego, il | Capt bigfish - 12/16/2016 6:32 PM
I don't see similarity between the hellraiser psycho lip and a headlock lip. What I'm I missing?
The warning at the end of a viagra commercial.
Edited by ToddM 12/17/2016 12:22 PM
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| See Duff, your baits have again started a fight! |
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Location: Waukee, IA | ToddM - 12/17/2016 12:16 PM
Capt bigfish - 12/16/2016 6:32 PM
I don't see similarity between the hellraiser psycho lip and a headlock lip. What I'm I missing?
The warning at the end of a viagra commercial.
If it lasts for more than 4 hours, call more ladies. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Muskymilleman - 12/14/2016 9:22 AM
Light bulb, wheel??? Oh boy....you nailed it!
One of the first founding major court cases in American history that led up to strict laws on patents and designs involved the lightbuld. As for the wheel...it would be similar to copying a specific tread pattern, which there are thousands of patents for different tread patterns and other design specifications.
There is a difference between lighting a room and copying the way you do it.
You couldn't have proven my point any better.
Goodluck.
Look up what the law protects on a fishing lure design.
It's not the lip or exact build that matters, it's the brand. Anyone making a fishing lure these days is 'copying' some other bait.
Most good businessmen know this, but a little advice to those who don't for a very smart man I work with who is a long distance runner:
'Don't waste time or energy worrying about who's behind you. Keep your focus forward, because if you take the time to turn around to see who's behind you, they may just pass you up.'
I designed a series of lures back in the 70's. The name was coined by a good friend of mine. Now it's a generic name used by dozens of bait builders and I'd wager not one of them ever has heard of me. Who cares? Not a single one has built one better than the original, and it's cool the name still is around 40 years later.
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| What's the name Steve? Now I'm curious.
Reaper? |
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Location: SE, WI. | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^CREATURE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ JD |
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| ARmuskyaddict - 12/18/2016 12:43 AM
See Duff, your baits have again started a fight!
^ Best post in this entire thread. |
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| tkuntz - 12/18/2016 9:05 AM
ToddM - 12/17/2016 12:16 PM
Capt bigfish - 12/16/2016 6:32 PM
I don't see similarity between the hellraiser psycho lip and a headlock lip. What I'm I missing?
The warning at the end of a viagra commercial.
If it lasts for more than 4 hours, call more ladies.
lol after all the absurdity that i just read at a trolling line subject that kind of reply make my day and help my pressure.give me your pp info |
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| Muskymilleman - 12/14/2016 11:01 AM
genesisperformance - 12/14/2016 10:25 AM
If someone is interested in getting their own lip designs laser cut i can help, but to copy someone elses lip design i will not help you out
^^^^^THIS^^^^^
Is what respect for another designer is.
Thank you Genesisperformance.
You get it!
+1 imho the rapala scaterap lip have a better design,i would buy any big cranks with the same lips because i don't think rapala would be hurt and anyway they don't care about musky. for the guys that are telling that is ok if they add just a 1/16 to the size i have some news for you some rules and law are stupid ,you don't have to justify yourself behind something stupid like this stupid laws. we all know the cost of a patent and what it worth.anyway if i change my mind about aluminium bill it will be a lures from duff for sure not a pelvic, pelagic any other copy
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...." lol who was the first guy to tell a phrase like that?a Chinese i guess
Edited by supertrollr 6/29/2017 5:30 AM
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| wow ive been building for 4 decades. I just think I will head to the turtle races on st clair t-day.. turtles don't get upset. |
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Location: Ashland WI | supertrollr - 6/29/2017 5:23 AM
Muskymilleman - 12/14/2016 11:01 AM
genesisperformance - 12/14/2016 10:25 AM
If someone is interested in getting their own lip designs laser cut i can help, but to copy someone elses lip design i will not help you out
^^^^^THIS^^^^^
Is what respect for another designer is.
Thank you Genesisperformance.
You get it!
+1 imho the rapala scaterap lip have a better design,i would buy any big cranks with the same lips because i don't think rapala would be hurt and anyway they don't care about musky. for the guys that are telling that is ok if they add just a 1/16 to the size i have some news for you some rules and law are stupid ,you don't have to justify yourself behind something stupid like this stupid laws. we all know the cost of a patent and what it worth.anyway if i change my mind about aluminium bill it will be a lures from duff for sure not a pelvic, pelagic any other copy
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...." lol who was the first guy to tell a phrase like that?a Chinese i guess
So its ok to "rip off" Rapala because they are a large company? |
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Location: Waukee, IA | What's going on guys? We beating this equine corpse again? |
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Location: Hayward, WI | So, uh.... is anybody selling the lips yet... |
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| yes me |
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