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Posts: 7088
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | What's your go to rig, set up...when do you start, what situations do you use them, when don't you...etc. etc. |
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Posts: 2376
Location: Chisholm, MN | I like 3 hooks. I've been making my own for the last couple years. A single hook through the nose, and two 5/0 trebles further back, 7 strand with a spinner. I have pretty good hook ups that way. I do think it's way too early right now for suckers. Gotta let that water get below 60 to even think about starting, in my opinion. You can catch fish on artificial baits pretty darn easy right now. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | never too early for a lively sucker to get chowed...it is what they eat ya know!  |
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Posts: 7088
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Kirby Budrow - 9/23/2016 9:24 AM
I like 3 hooks. I've been making my own for the last couple years. A single hook through the nose, and two 5/0 trebles further back, 7 strand with a spinner. I have pretty good hook ups that way. I do think it's way too early right now for suckers. Gotta let that water get below 60 to even think about starting, in my opinion. You can catch fish on artificial baits pretty darn easy right now.
Curious: can you take a pic of your rig and post it? |
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Posts: 2376
Location: Chisholm, MN | BNelson - 9/23/2016 9:28 AM
never too early for a lively sucker to get chowed...it is what they eat ya know! ;)
Oh I know they can and will be eat them, but they aren't very lively with this warm water we have and die pretty quick  I'd rather cover water faster by casting than drag around a half dead sucker.
Slamr, I'll have to make some new ones up to get you a pic. They are all pretty mangled from last year still |
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Posts: 20248
Location: oswego, il | I dont have a pre-rigged sucker rig. I have a 3ft flouro leader and a bucnch of 1/0- 3/0 short shank round bend mustads with various lengths of 7 strand leads attached. I can use a small minnow hook in the lip or rubber band and 1 or 2 of the hooks which all depend on the size of the sucker. I dont care for 4x big thick hooks, i lime the thinner wire mustads which penetrate easier. I dont horse sucker fish, i fight them as if they are barely hooked. |
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Posts: 833
| Surprised you guys are using 7 strand on the leads. I prefer the coated stuff as it is easier on the minnow and the musky.
I've been experimenting with hook weight this year trying to reduce the overall weight of the rig so the sucker isn't as worn out. I'm leary of going too small on the hooks since I prefer 18" to 20" minnows.
I run a home made rig.
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | It's still a little early for me to be dragging suckers but as I type I can see two boats out there with giant orange floats behind them. It's almost that time of year.
As far as rigs go I've been using Shumway's clip and go rig for a few years and like them. |
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Posts: 221
| I 2nd schumway clip and go. Best rig i've found. |
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Posts: 620
Location: Seymour, WI | I use a home made single treble hook in the sucker's belly on a 24"-30" seven strand leader.
As soon as the water temps get under 60 degrees it is game on. |
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Posts: 815
Location: Waukee, IA | My "sucker rigs" are different as I use yellow bas instead of suckers. Their flat physiology makes it pretty simple: a single hook in the snout followed by two trebles on ~6" of wire each. I put one treble on each side of the fish so when they get grabbed the hooks are always contacting mouth. |
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Posts: 119
| I use a homemade flourocarbon rig with a small thin single hook through the suckers upper lip attached to a really small rubber band. The rubber band is the type you can get from a dentists office. The rubber band connects to a snap on the front of the rig that is looped in the rig with a small bead. This loop allows me to adjust the trailing treble hook to the size of the sucker I'm using. I take the trailing treble and bend one end of hook at a straight 90 degree angle and place it right behind the dorsal fin on top of the sucker. It's just beneath the skin and barely hooked. With this rig my suckers can swim very freely and almost never know they are hooked. They last forever. When I slam the hookset the rubber band breaks and pretty much seperates the rig from the sucker and allows a solid hookup percentage. Very cheap to tie up and I think the flouro is better for clear waters. In late fall I like to attatch a snap on weight about 10-15 feet in front of the sucker to keep it right near the bottom. I'll drag them on flats adjacent to a breakline or rock structure/drop offs. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I make my own...small walleye hook on the front end of the hooks section ...2 hooks ... my MN size rigs have 2 5/0 774s, WI size rigs are a VMC 4/0 round bend.... hooks are put on 175 49 strand... with a spinner blade above on fluoro or 175 lb ...easy to rig on the sucker and have been very effective with fish to ~45 lbs |
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Posts: 1039
| I use the Mike's Extreme rig. 3 trebles, flourocarbon and a split ring. Smaller, sharp hooks. Hit em right away. I was running 100# flouro. Probably going to 80# this fall.
They stick fish nicely. Only issue is 3 trebles in the net. Ungh. |
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Posts: 1828
| When guys talk about using 20" suckers... Are you serious? Have you measured them? I'm not asking this to be a jerk but 20" is like a 2.5 or 3 pound sucker. Not really big for a muskie to eat, but really big to handle, really big to stick two trebles in, and really big to expect one of those trebles to actually land in your musky's mouth.
Also, in every fishing show I've seen where they talk about using big suckers, they say that they like them 16 to 20". But then every sucker they rig up is more like 12 - 14". |
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Location: Contrarian Island | have you been to MN in the fall? yes, guys do use 20 inch suckers.... and yes, I am sure they are 20 as I buy the 15s and they have some that are much bigger... some guys use a 3 hook treble rig on suckers that big....me, I prefer a nice lively 15...
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Posts: 1828
| BNelson - 9/26/2016 2:20 PM
have you been to MN in the fall? yes, guys do use 20 inch suckers.... and yes, I am sure they are 20 as I buy the 15s and they have some that are much bigger... some guys use a 3 hook treble rig on suckers that big....me, I prefer a nice lively 15...
Yes, I live here. I just haven't seen an actual 20" sucker in any bait store, ever, and on every sucker-fishing-focused show I've seen they use like 1 pounders, which in my mind is perfect.
Just trying to wrap my head around using a 3 pound sucker. Like I said - I realize that muskies will eat that big of a meal without blinking, but in practice it seams inefficient to use them that large. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | oh they sell em.. 20 for sure, I've seen some that I think go 22 or better |
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Posts: 705
Location: Alex or Alek? | Went out last fall and used 20"+. I didn't measure them but they were as long as the cooler... Buddy caught a 48" on one of them. I don't think you'll be getting a smaller fish to bite but the big ones will definitely eat something that big.
Was out two weekends ago and dragged a sucker for awhile. We got to watch one terrorize the sucker for 20 min or so but never ended up biting. There was plenty other boats out dragging bobbers. Water temps were mid 60's. |
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Posts: 833
| I typically run 16" - 20" minnows. I've seen a low 30s fish try to eat them. (You don't want this, you rarely get hooks.) Sometimes the bigger minnows are harder to come by and then I use the smaller ones. There is a big size difference between a 14" minnow and 16" minnow, which I think matters.
When you are on a 52+" fish you want every variable in your favor, and that is when profile is your friend.
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Location: Contrarian Island | to me it is no different than some days the fish want a 6" phantom, some days the pounder is what they want...suckers are no different...have seen days were a lively 14 gets the hits over larger ones. or vice versa... food for thought! |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | The rig I use except that I don't use 150# flouro any more as leader I use 175# 49 strand. This is similar to BNelson's rig: https://youtu.be/gpmAaq6eHnY |
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Posts: 833
| For me the size is more custom to the minnow. Short leads are an unnecessary handicap on a bigger minnow, at least in my opinion.
BNELSON they are all $14-$16 a pop up here so might as well get the fatty and get my money's worth. I've had luck on the smaller ones too, but in general I do best on the big ones. That might be the fact I fish more with the big ones, so at least somewhat self-fulfilling. We only get one line up here, so harder to experiment. |
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Posts: 2376
Location: Chisholm, MN | jaultman - 9/26/2016 2:24 PM
BNelson - 9/26/2016 2:20 PM
have you been to MN in the fall? yes, guys do use 20 inch suckers.... and yes, I am sure they are 20 as I buy the 15s and they have some that are much bigger... some guys use a 3 hook treble rig on suckers that big....me, I prefer a nice lively 15...
Yes, I live here. I just haven't seen an actual 20" sucker in any bait store, ever, and on every sucker-fishing-focused show I've seen they use like 1 pounders, which in my mind is perfect.
Just trying to wrap my head around using a 3 pound sucker. Like I said - I realize that muskies will eat that big of a meal without blinking, but in practice it seams inefficient to use them that large.
Jesse, I've bought suckers over 20" before in GR
I do agree it's too big though. I prefer 15-16"ers. I feel the same way about hook ups. Not enough hook, for meat that big. |
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Posts: 540
| jaultman - 9/26/2016 2:19 PM
When guys talk about using 20" suckers... Are you serious? Have you measured them? I'm not asking this to be a jerk but 20" is like a 2.5 or 3 pound sucker. Not really big for a muskie to eat, but really big to handle, really big to stick two trebles in, and really big to expect one of those trebles to actually land in your musky's mouth.
Also, in every fishing show I've seen where they talk about using big suckers, they say that they like them 16 to 20". But then every sucker they rig up is more like 12 - 14".
I like to use 16-18"ers every fall and even bigger at times. Something that ive noticed though as what you might be referring to is when I spear suckers in the spring these are wild suckers from the lakes and a 20" wild sucker is a beast compared to a 20" that you typically buy from a baitshop that are usually pond raised. they may be 20" long but they are a lot leaner and you can cover the best spots of there bodies with trebles. now a wild sucker is usually way big around and if you were to use the legal amount of hooks on it you really woulnt be able get enough hook coverage to have a decent hook up. hope this helps your perspective a little. give em a try this fall its really quite fun at times. |
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Posts: 620
Location: Seymour, WI | I really think only one or two hooks at the most are needed on any sucker, no matter how big it is. A musky that hits a sucker will try to T-bone the sucker and they aim right behind the head. Position your hook so that it is 2-3 inches behind the head and you should be fine. I've used this successfully many times on very large suckers with only one hook.
In a nut shell I want a sucker rig that is really simple easy and fast to hook up, so your not freezing your hands off while rigging up meat on a cold fall day. |
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Posts: 688
Location: Already Gone | Dear Mr. Slamr,
I prefer Howie, Herbie, or Nelson rigging. Brad makes a nice rig. And sometimes a bridled single hook for a smaller bait. I don't only use suckers, and I vary my size depending on season and temp. Howie rigged ciscoes and perch work well. Very seldom do I not have at least one live bait out. Anytime. But especially later...
Yes, suckers are harder to keep lively in summer temps, other live bait options are then used.
I like to cast as much as the next guy, but I find the live bait option a good time also while we cast...as we have picked up a few really nice walleyes, pike, and once a huge smallie attacked a rig while casting.
Options also include bling... or naked, depending on water clarity. We use slip floats or a release float to get them back behind the boat sometimes.... or we just hang em. It depends on the conditions, the water, and game plan.
Either way, I enjoy the heck out of live bait fishing and the options involved as much as casting. I believe it does require more patience to keep the bait in a good position. It's part of the game.
And there are days when either work.... or don't. |
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Location: Eagle Lake Vermilion Bay, Ontario | baits- most important vs size ( the 2 largest i've ever boated were on 12" baits because that was all that was available) is vitality, you should have a hard time holding on to one, dark and fresh trapped,wild not pond raised with the fear of god (a musky).
i prefer 15-17" baits for alround. big enough to tempt the biggies yet doesnt cut back on action of mid 40's fish.
once you get them if possible season them overnite at/in lake water temps. if you are keeping them for more than several days or especially more feed them chopped up small minnows or worms overnite.laugh.... it makes a diff. you gotta feed hunting dogs too.
if only small baits available get lots,double what you think. have double rods rigged and rest every other spot. keep weights way above so dont fatigue. change and put weak ones on the bench,pick another first stringer whenever fatigue is apparent.
keep rig light with small hardened 1/0-2/0 hooks like 2x gamagatus. on small baits use only 1 . big baits 2 and i dont ever go over 3/0. no need to and actually penetrate deeper/better than a bigger hook.
as far as the rig the release method doesnt really matter its your preference as long as it does release.
i still prefer the rubber band for very large baits and most everyday fuzzy's clip for smaller to standard med baits.
main thing to remember is you are trying to fool a fish that has seen baits with what it eats every day so it needs to look that way and act that way. big gaudy presentations with 4/0-7/0 hooks,big or shiney very visable wire,etc etc . defeat the whole idea. if you are getting fish following live baits to the boat its probably some of your problem. if you see fish on your locator or the bait is telling you a musky is chasing your bait around resist lifting to look. keep going they will follow and mess with a bait sometimes for a long long way before the bait makes just the right fatal mistake or move that triggers the take.
clear water ,bright days especially i use 60# wire on hook leads and change after ea fish (darker water/days you can get away with 90# but i still rarely use) with 12" 150# floro from clip to 4' of 80# floro to 80-100# braid. i use dark brown and blk perm markers on the clip and any hooks that shine. pay attention to small details, i get very few fish following up my baits compared to others on same waters same days not doing so.
steve herbeck
AML prop emeritus,guest fishing insteructor coordinator,master guide
facebook.com/AndyMyersLodge
andymyerslodge.com
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Posts: 116
| Andy Myers Lodge - 10/1/2016 9:31 AM
baits- most important vs size ( the 2 largest i've ever boated were on 12" baits because that was all that was available) is vitality, you should have a hard time holding on to one, dark and fresh trapped,wild not pond raised with the fear of god (a musky).
i prefer 15-17" baits for alround. big enough to tempt the biggies yet doesnt cut back on action of mid 40's fish.
once you get them if possible season them overnite at/in lake water temps. if you are keeping them for more than several days or especially more feed them chopped up small minnows or worms overnite.laugh.... it makes a diff. you gotta feed hunting dogs too.
if only small baits available get lots,double what you think. have double rods rigged and rest every other spot. keep weights way above so dont fatigue. change and put weak ones on the bench,pick another first stringer whenever fatigue is apparent.
keep rig light with small hardened 1/0-2/0 hooks like 2x gamagatus. on small baits use only 1 . big baits 2 and i dont ever go over 3/0. no need to and actually penetrate deeper/better than a bigger hook.
as far as the rig the release method doesnt really matter its your preference as long as it does release.
i still prefer the rubber band for very large baits and most everyday fuzzy's clip for smaller to standard med baits.
main thing to remember is you are trying to fool a fish that has seen baits with what it eats every day so it needs to look that way and act that way. big gaudy presentations with 4/0-7/0 hooks,big or shiney very visable wire,etc etc . defeat the whole idea. if you are getting fish following live baits to the boat its probably some of your problem. if you see fish on your locator or the bait is telling you a musky is chasing your bait around resist lifting to look. keep going they will follow and mess with a bait sometimes for a long long way before the bait makes just the right fatal mistake or move that triggers the take.
clear water ,bright days especially i use 60# wire on hook leads and change after ea fish (darker water/days you can get away with 90# but i still rarely use) with 12" 150# floro from clip to 4' of 80# floro to 80-100# braid. i use dark brown and blk perm markers on the clip and any hooks that shine. pay attention to small details, i get very few fish following up my baits compared to others on same waters same days not doing so.
steve herbeck
AML prop emeritus,guest fishing insteructor coordinator,master guide
facebook.com/AndyMyersLodge
andymyerslodge.com
You sucker fisherman might want to screen print this and save it.
Troy |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | I run circles on 18-20" 100 lb fluro leaders and topped with a Thill float. Patience is a must, but the reward has been very good. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | when fish follow a sucker my belief is they aren't eating it because they see a hook or hooks...my take is they simply aren't active..
just like when they follow our baits... put that same sucker out there with no hooks, that fish will still follow it around...
personally I'm not confident in small hooks on a 18 inch sucker... if it works for you great, but I'm using 5/0s and the muskies don't seem to care .. my goal is a 50 incher eating that sucker ... |
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Location: Eagle Lake Vermilion Bay, Ontario | o-o-kay...??probably 35-50% or even more at times of the fish are caught after following those artificial baits you talk about. i certainly wouldnt throw out a livebait without hooks to see..ha ha. it bothers me none to follow rt behind 1 or 2 boats IF they dont have livebaits,i used to do it purposely,go to n twin on tournament days when all guides shunned it and have my best days fishing behind them. good fishermen catch some but bring way more most times out to the edge. i've boated numerous 40# fish that after days end review someone else had her follow off the same structure anywhere from 5 min. to an hr before i pulled up.
lots of things will work..even most of the time..but there's always a better mousetrap and rigs should/will continue to evolve , a 2/0-3/0 extra strength hardened gamakatsu (eagle claw is in works on a specific purpose Trokar that will be awesome) simply will do everything a 5/0-7/0 bronzed will only better in every aspect,on baits of any and all sizes and fish of all sizes. penetration ability especially through boney roof plates, less bait fatigue, even actual strength,and if you dont think or at least take into account visablity especially in clearer water on bright days and high pressure fronts,not even counting fish that seen alot of artificials all season...well... those looking for answers can take a couple diff views , digest them,give em a try and make up thier own minds whaat works for them. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | exactly, if you are happy with your results keep doing it...I'm happy with mine!
I guess just chalking up a fish hitting a day or 2 later after someone had it following their sucker to me just doesn't mean it ate yours because of the smaller hooks, I'd bet it was simply active.., no different than you going thru a spot and getting a fish to follow and 2 hrs later another boat goes thru and catches it... . having sucker fished for 20 yrs I've seen how 1 hour they can be following suckers to turning on and eating them an hour or 2 later...seems when they are following suckers all over the lake for other boats that is just the weather or whatever that has them neutral.... I just don't give a muskies pea size brain that much credit..
so to take it a step further and pose this question...so a musky follows a mag dawg worked slow in the fall... if you are saying there is no advantage to a bigger hook.. do you put 2/0s on your mag dawgs too?
I do agree a lighter overall rig is beneficial and that is why i keep my rigs as light as possible... but 2, 5/0 774s on an 16 inch sucker isn't much bling imo.... |
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Posts: 754
| How ever you chose to do it my thoughts are to just make sure you are using decent gear. This cheap POS rig, or more accurately, what was left of it after a break off, was in the mouth of the fish I am holding. The fluro is maybe 100 LBS and the hooks were tiny (1/0 ??) When I netted the fish I could not figure out why there was such a mess until I noticed the jewelry hanging off the mouth and face of the ski... It would be a shame to loose a fish like this (or any for that matter) due to ignorance or someone being cheap....
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Location: Contrarian Island | good point ....I would never use fluoro on the hook section...that is only asking for big trouble! minimum 135 lb 7 strand but all my rigs now are 175 lb 49 strand... |
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Posts: 999
| To add to Brad's last comment DO NOT EVER go less then 180 pound flouro on your leader section (if you use flouro) and do not use anything less then 100 pound braid. Both will snap in a heartbeat on a solid hookset into a big fish. Brad makes some pretty solid rigs that have put a lot of fish in our net the past decade. |
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Location: Eagle Lake Vermilion Bay, Ontario | that anology is ridiculous livebait and artificials are totally diff you cant compare . i know those rigs,heavy wire,etc and size hooks work, i designed the first brake away rig over 20 yrs ago when everyone was still using single hooks and insisted on still using it because single hook takes were 50%++ more than the big nose hook quckset with 6/0 hooks(see infisherman 1995) and whether you use clips,small hooks,whatever, the concept is the same as long as it cleanly breaks ,i used 5/0 and 6/0 hooks for 15 yrs., they work. when fish are hot, darker windy weather or darker water it may never make alot of diff. but... there is no doubt under less than ideal conditions. anyone who knows what they are doing who has adapted what i talked about will unequivocally tell you that thier catch rates went up and i've seen it countless times side by side.
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Location: Contrarian Island | sure maybe at times your smaller hooks in the ultra clear water will get a hit versus one w a bigger hook...I don't fish gin clear water so my 2/0 on small suckers up to 5/0s on the bigguns, work fine for me... You can have your beliefs but dont try to belittle others that dont agree with you and whos results are pretty impressive as yours... do what works and you have confidence in. I also would not personally use 60 lb wire on the hook section, I have had fish shred 90 lb... just too light for my taste. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | I have to agree with Herbie on this. On gin clear water I've noticed a huge difference in fish actually eating instead of just playing with a sucker that has hooks that are bigger than 2/0. Oddly I haven't noticed any difference in flouro vs wire leader which leads me to believe it's more about how the bait swims than about what's hanging from it. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | that I can agree with... ie, I don't think the musky 'knows' or cares if the hook is a 2/0 or 4/0...but like you say, keeping the overall rig as light as possible is my goal as well as a lighter rig will allow the sucker to swim easier... put 5/0s on a 12 inch sucker and what does it do.. tips sideways.... use the hooks appropriate for the size of the sucker to get the best action ... |
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Posts: 108
| I think muskies are dumb. They don't know what a hook is or a quick strike rig! I have seen muskies (large) caught on a sucker twice within 6 hours on two different occasions. When they are hungry they have short term memory. I have also caught a 52" muskie on a sucker that was reeled in while fighting another fish and the rig was literally 6" down under the surface and 1-foot away next to my 225hp Suzuki...it didn't seem to care.
I do see the point of "finesse" though...you see it fishing for all species of fish. Sometimes a lighter rig may allow your sucker to move quicker and more natural and that sucker may provide more "trigger" during a period where muskies are inactive.
I agree with the "fish the way you are confident in" statement, but make sure your rigs are heavy enough so you are not breaking off and hurting fish. |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | I'm my experience, the most natural presentation of live bait, wins. I realize that most guys despise circle hooks, but in my world, when combined with fluro leaders, they can't be beat. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Gander Mt Guide - 10/5/2016 10:16 AM I'm my experience, the most natural presentation of live bait, wins. I realize that most guys despise circle hooks, but in my world, when combined with fluro leaders, they can't be beat. How big are the suckers you're running? My experience with the suckers I run is that circle hooks just don't work but they really do get eaten twice as much. I've tried a few methods to make it work but simply can't get an acceptable hookup percentage.
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Posts: 246
Location: Grand Marais, MN | Anyone out there tried Larry Dahlberg's technique "magic musky hook"? Looks intriguing, something I'd hope to try one of these years. |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Will Schultz - 10/5/2016 12:05 PM
Gander Mt Guide - 10/5/2016 10:16 AM I'm my experience, the most natural presentation of live bait, wins. I realize that most guys despise circle hooks, but in my world, when combined with fluro leaders, they can't be beat. How big are the suckers you're running? My experience with the suckers I run is that circle hooks just don't work but they really do get eaten twice as much. I've tried a few methods to make it work but simply can't get an acceptable hookup percentage.
12-13" max. The keys to being successful? Patience and boat control. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Gander Mt Guide - 10/6/2016 9:53 AM Will Schultz - 10/5/2016 12:05 PM Gander Mt Guide - 10/5/2016 10:16 AM I'm my experience, the most natural presentation of live bait, wins. I realize that most guys despise circle hooks, but in my world, when combined with fluro leaders, they can't be beat. How big are the suckers you're running? My experience with the suckers I run is that circle hooks just don't work but they really do get eaten twice as much. I've tried a few methods to make it work but simply can't get an acceptable hookup percentage.
12-13" max. The keys to being successful? Patience and boat control. I've had good success with 10-12 but the 14-18's just don't work. My guess is the head of the sucker is too large and doesn't allow the circle hook to do it's job.
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Posts: 20248
Location: oswego, il | Alot of the advice is from the perspective of where you fish. My sucker fishing experience comes from indiana and southeast wisconsin. Pressured finicky biters, clearish water and small to average sized suckers. A different scenario than someone fishing lakes with alot of big fish. Advice is relative to the person giving it. |
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Posts: 221
| bigfoot - 10/5/2016 3:21 PM
Anyone out there tried Larry Dahlberg's technique "magic musky hook"? Looks intriguing, something I'd hope to try one of these years.
It works, but you might sit there for 30 minutes waiting for the fish to eat and in doing so, miss out on another fish. I definitely wouldn't suggest it. |
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Posts: 7088
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | What happens when you rig poorly?
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/videos/10.10.2015/8213/Water.Wolf.U... |
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