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| I recently watched a late sumner musky fishing seminar on YouTube. Not sure on the names of the two guys giving the seminar.
They referred to fishing weedlines from the inside out.
Instead of holding boat in say 18ft and casting up onto the weed tops/weed edge, they recommended putting boat inside the weeds and casting out.
Can anyone share their experience with this? Do u think I need to have my boat actually in side the shallow weed edge or just up in the weeds say 8ft.
I can think of a few of my spots where fishing on the insidea edge and casting out to the deep is not possible do to the size of the weeds.
Heading up to Minocqua this weekend to give it a try
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| I watched that seminar as well. I have yet to give it a shot, so this is relevant to my interests.... |
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| Link to the Seminar? |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Yes, it all depends on the size of the spot and how it's set up for it to be possible. Basically, just put your boat far enough on the inside of the edge to cast just past the breakline and work it like that. Make sure your baits are going to be seen by fish. There is no need to cast too far past the break line into open water, where the fish are not generally sitting. If the break line is too narrow, don't do it. Or you can drift over the top of the break and cast parallel to the edge. |
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| I agree with Kirby^^
I've had luck doing it. I'll run the boat just inside the tallest edge of the weeds and cast out. No need for mile long casts, the fish usually hit near the edge of the weeds. |
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| Kirby Budrow - 8/26/2016 12:56 PM
Or you can drift over the top of the break and cast parallel to the edge.
Great way to do it.
One issue I have with casting "inside out" is it seems like the fish are less boat-side-friendly when you're sitting shallow on top of the weeds. For that reason I prefer to have a little space between my feet and the lake bottom. |
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| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjcf-_ApQ4w
LINK TO SEMINAR |
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| This strategy works. Especially when fish are sitting off the breaks or in open water off the edges. Which seems to be quite often depending on time of year and water temps. |
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Location: Not where I want to be! | Do it a lot. creates a direction change and contacts fish that you may not reaching outside in. |
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| Tactic paid off. My Dad put a 30" in the boat this morning
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Location: oswego, il | Don't make claim like that without a bump board pic!:-) |
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Location: Detroit River | I've been doing that bass fishing for the past 25+ years & have done it sparingly for musky. It has it's days. |
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| I think it would depend on the type, thickness and gradient of the weeds. On the lake I fish most often there are very thick weeds up to 12 to 13 FOW then very thin to deep drop-off at say 18 FOW "which comes up pretty quick" . Your casting from inside would be very limited in most cases. I park just outside the weeds and cast somewhat parallel to weed-edge and drop-off. I suppose it depends on the lake. |
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| ToddM who gives a rats butt? It looks like 30" to me....
IT WORKS....
Edited by DonnieHunt37 8/30/2016 10:55 AM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | used to do that all the time. great way to really understand the details of the structure that you are fishing and find the rock, the patch of tobacco cabbage, the gravel/sand, inside turn, slot that defines the spot on the spot.
another good thing to do to learn a lake is to fish other species on it ... getting the whole picture of what is using what, when and why helps you to fully understand the value of the spot. i always look at directing a lake with the notion that 80% of the fish live in 20% of the lake and eat 10% of the time ... not science but a good way to stay on good water.
Edited by jonnysled 8/30/2016 11:03 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | We take it a step further, dissecting the weed structure as if the outside edge/deeper weed varieties, green cabbage center, and shallow red cabbage or other varieties are individual pieces of structure. On some lakes around here and on Wabigoon and others where weeds hold fish shallow, we put more muskies in the net on the inside edge than outside, overall. Have to understand the anatomy of the structure, and that is where an Aqua-Vu Micro comes in to play.
Last week on Vermilion we found the really big crappies where the Valcenaria and broadleaf cabbage wall intersected on sand/marl bottom. VERY specific as to where the really big fish were in a narrow strip along the weedlines. Almost impossible to define from the sonar reading exactly enough.
https://www.facebook.com/UnderwaterViewing/videos
Samllmouth were JUST outside the edge of the Valcenaria in first video, second was crappies and gills with a couple cameo walleyes.
While fishing that pattern we saw several muskies up to low 50" class right in there with the crappies and gills. Turns out the Aqua-View showed us TONS of bait in that strip as well, drawing gamefish and pannies alike.
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Location: St. Lawrence River | DonnieHunt37 - 8/30/2016 11:53 AM
ToddM who gives a rats butt? It looks like 30" to me....
IT WORKS....
Face palm.. |
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| Zactly.... |
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| The fish in my avatar was caught fishing nowhere near the weed edge. I normally start the day fishing edges but will often mix it up as the day progresses. On some of the lakes I typically fish I like getting in 3-4 fow and casting out or putting the boat in 7-10 feet of water and casting parallel but not on the edge, just over the top of a bigger flat. Edges are often the best bet but it can be surprising at how many fish can be sitting on the inside weed edge or just sitting right on top of the weeds in the middle of the flat. It depends a lot on the lake I'd imagine but I've had some very big fish come flying into 3 feet of water from the deeper weeds and eat boatside. |
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| With a lifetime of largemouth fishing in the rear view mirror, I have limited muskie experience. There were many days chasing bas when "the presentation" was walking the bank and fishing the crashing waves. When fishing the shield I kept thinking the fish were only getting a limited look at my bucktail before I pulled it away from them into deeper water but was told it was the proper way to approach the situation. I kept wondering if I beached on the islands and waded the rock, casting a bucktail into deep water and then retrieving into shallow if the change in angles might trigger fish. Anybody ever tried this?
Edited by So IL Muskie Hunter 9/10/2016 5:01 AM
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| The concept would work but the problem with wading is it takes too much time to cover water and is harder to convert follows in the 8. If it's your only option then go for it but I wouldn't get out of the boat ever unless it's to reach a spot the boat just cant get to. |
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Location: Uxbridge Ontario | Bottom line on monster muskies. If you want to catch more big fish, always fish the outside of the structure. Inside out is basically how to train yourself to not just cast at your target structure. Doesn't matter if it's weed, rock or wood, the big girls for the majority of their life's live on the outside. They actively and in actively follow bait pods that stack on shelf. Wind typically will affect positioning of fish, but almost all my 50+ fish come well off the structure. Sometimes 50ft, sometimes 50 yards. Sharp breaking contours and dropoffs are your best targets as those areas are more predictable migrating patterns for bait pods. Basically, if you aren't targeting the outside structure, you are not catching the big fish on the spots.
Edited by HomeTime 9/20/2016 8:57 PM
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Location: Uxbridge Ontario | Just read over some of the other comments and I can relate them on a structure fishing state of mind. However, muskie do not live "in" the weeds. They will transition in and out to feed for pressure reasons. Those could be anglers, weather or even other muskies driving them in or out of the area. However, contacting the mommas of the area, you NEED to fish the depths outside. On most of my lakes, water clarity is quite clear. Weeds develope as deep as 15ft. Some grases down to 17ft. My usually spot for boat position is typically 17-19FOW. But I will cycle in and out come in contact with the weed edge, then cycle out to past the break line to where the bottom changes from soft to hard or hard to soft. Then back in to structure as I work along the spot until I establish a pattern. |
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Location: Kronenwetter, WI | Sometimes you got to fish it all not just the edge...If there is 100 yds of weeds between the edge and shore ....then, fish the 100 yds of weeds between edge and shore. Let fish tell you what to do.
Edited by Cowboyhannah 9/21/2016 7:40 AM
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Location: Contrarian Island | inside out casting works for sure... muskies don't really care which direction a bait is going over their heads... 
I would disagree with HomeTimes post 100%... big girls go up shallow... a lot... they do not live their lives on the outside edge... sometimes they are on top of structure, sometimes on the inside weed edge, sometimes deep etc but to say a guy should just target the outside edge is missing lots of opportunities for big fish, even the biggest fish in the lake go shallow... we put lots of big ones in the boat this year from 4 feet to 6 feet.. my 2 cents.
Edited by BNelson 9/21/2016 10:54 AM
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | That certainly could be a pattern you have found on your local lakes HomeTime, but a lot of what you described doesn't necessarily translate over to different lake types. Especially darker, shallower basins. You would potentially be missing a lot of big fish by not going right in thick of weeds on a lot of lakes I fish in the Upper Midwest. |
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Location: Uxbridge Ontario | B Nelson, don't get me wrong here. I am speaking about inside out fishing. I fish it all as well. However, if you dont fish inside out of try the basin you are missing out on the biggest fish in the lake in my opinion. I have several large fish ontop of and behind structure. I also have several slob fish from shoreline areas. As pointed out by muskie Brian, my tactic for outside fishing my be more specific to my clear lakes and low pressure waters |
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| The angle matters and every little thing you do can be considered a drastic change if you consider the idea that these fish may have some kind of reaction to every little thing - both in and out of your own personal control.
How is the fish set up on the spot or why is it slowwwwwwly or quickly cruising?
You may not and most likely will not formulate the same result with every which angle you can possibly present your bait to a fish at all times. I know this may seem obvious to people... but, I'm just throwing it out there.
We have to asume everything and try everything if we really want to understand it all to the point where we may believe we have a clear understanding, but an educated guess based on experience and intuition helps us narrow our options down - drastically. Those things tell me that riding one single edge and going around an entire lake in the same exact fashion is probably not going to put me in the best position or situation as much as I would like it to based on my physical and mental efforts after making such a simple and basic decision.
I think that may have been one of the key points of the video.
Gotta try it all in order to catch them all.
I do not feel good about it, because it can damage the weeds and leave a path no very appealing to the eyes of someone who wishes to enjoy pure nature... but, going through the thick stuff with your trolling motor so you can better cast into pockets or even do what you described in your initial post - is one of my favorite ways to fish.
Good luck! |
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| So IL Muskie Hunter...
Some friends and I were fishing an Island by boat on Lake of the Woods one evening before a storm. The storm came early... so, we beached the boat. The mosquito's motivated me to grab a rod and stay active. If I was going to appear as if I was under some kind of attack while going through such physical motions - I would rather be fishing than swatting at mosquito's and slapping myself. The three of us did a pretty good job mixing it up as far as baits went while fishing from the boat, so different styles of baits were used when we fished before the storm. The topwater I used while on the boat ended up triggering a nice, 43" fish to go after I made a cast while standing on shore. Rock cover around the entire island... not sure I remember any weeds. That fish followed several times when we were casting off the boat and did not hit until I made the cast from shore.
The shallow water and the fact that the bait and fish literally ran out of room makes me believe the fish may have actually sensed that it would be successful after taking the chance it was thinking about taking several times before the bait was presented in a way that literally or potentially made things easier for it to score.
Since we can not always see the fish and how they are positioned or what they are doing... like Steve mentioned... You either have to know the anatomy of the structure or cover you are fishing as well as how it's surrounding are laid out or you have to see the fish itself in order to take a guess when it comes to which angle you think will increase your chances of catching versus not catching. A "bad" cast or a "wrong" angle can even spook a fish... We all know that much.
The angle AND the spot... along with the time. You sometimes need to have the angle down in order to hit the spot. You can hit the spot from several angles at times... but, sometimes we must cast at a specific angle in order to get to or bring our lure through the spot in order to do what is specifically necessary to achieve the most positive, absolute result when it comes to a subject based on anything but absolutes.
Sometimes triggering a fish to go requires an absolute formula. Hard for some to agree with that comment if you consider how many variables are involved, but sometimes I feel like we need to be doing everything the way it should be done in order for our projections to become a reality.
In order to advance, we have to take a step back sometimes. The wrong angle will eventually lead to the right angle, but too much wrong could make it hard to do right. Experience and doing things outside of what we might believe to be normal will help us when it comes to being in the right spot at the right time more often than not - if everything we have no control over also falls into place.
Outside in will increase your chances for specific fish... and you might catch more fish... but, there are always going to be fish that we miss. At least we can get to some of them, but we can't do it unless we change our ways once in a while. 
Edited by Reelwise 9/21/2016 1:42 PM
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Location: Contrarian Island | and sometimes over thinking things costs you fish...muskies are not hard to catch.. |
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| BNelson - 9/21/2016 3:45 PM and some times over thinking things costs you fish...muskies are not hard to catch.. ;)
Not for you. Might be a little tough if you throw in a couple variables you are unfamiliar with or simply can not handle due to the lack of ability as a human being.
Some of us are capable of catching them... What is next? Understanding. Understanding before and after adds to the dynamics of your thinking. Of course we all understand... that is the beauty of it. There are so many places to go and things to do. Nobody understands EVERYTHING, but we can understand a little bit of everything. So, I do agree with your comment to some degree, Brad.
A Muskellunge is a Muskellunge is a Muskellunge... Ever hear that before? Let's put that idea in the safe for right now, especially since it is an idea that I refuse to believe in :P I do believe each and every fish is different - just like every body of water. That might not mean Muskellunge are difficult to catch, but each fish can require a different approach in order for you to catch it.
I'm all about X's and O's and you know I'm all about that computer code. Things need to be perfect when it comes to code, and trust me, I work on ways to come up with formulas to find absolutes related to Muskellunge and fishing just about every single day. But, that is just that... there is no code, but more of a script that can be modified over and over again to come to a similar result.
Hit them from all angles. If you catch a fish from one angle... there are others you are missing out on considering you caught it with the only angle you caught it with.
Check this out, obsessed_angler... just an idea. Everyone wants you to be you and do things your own way, but this is what I would do and these are things that I try often... Or have tried often. Right now I am sitting on a couch. It has been a while. Anyways... when you make it out... hit the outside weed edge. If you catch a fish or move a few fish... move inside and start casting out in the way you plan on doing so - RIGHT AWAY. If the fish are experiencing something that is heightening up their activity levels during that period of time, changing things up right away might increase your chances of proving an idea to be true if you have some willing participants :P
Edited by Reelwise 9/21/2016 5:29 PM
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| Overthinking things will prepare you... thinking in general will provide ideas... Ideas are made possible by putting fourth action. With so many actions available... I find it hard to believe under-thinking can outweigh overthinking as long as you keep your actions in check :P
What up B-RAD?
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Location: Stone Lk Wi | (The short version) Find the spot within the spot and then find the best way to approach it. |
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| Short version... short versions within long versions. short versions within long versions to form a longer version.
Short casts and long casts...
Angles... how about a revolution? :P
360 DEGREES |
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| BNelson - 9/21/2016 10:48 AM
I would disagree with HomeTimes post 100%... big girls go up shallow... a lot... they do not live their lives on the outside edge... sometimes they are on top of structure, sometimes on the inside weed edge, sometimes deep etc but to say a guy should just target the outside edge is missing lots of opportunities for big fish, even the biggest fish in the lake go shallow... we put lots of big ones in the boat this year from 4 feet to 6 feet.. my 2 cents.
Yeah couldn't agree more with Nelson on this one. This years been really good in 3-6 for me and that includes some of the biggest fish in the lake. Bottom line is don't get pigeon holed into one tactic.
Edited by musky-skunk 9/22/2016 10:48 AM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | dooooood ... |
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| The lake I fish holds both pike and musky’s. By summer the weeds are so densely packed that they hold few if any fish. This is true up to 13 or more FOW. Fishing inside these weeds would not produce fish. Perhaps on other lakes where the weeds are not so densely packed would produce different results? My guess is that for this inside casting to work these must be space between the weeds for the fish to maneuver? |
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| i'd be willing to bet that there are a lot more fish in those weeds than you think |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | I don't know...Muskies are a little dumber than you think Reelwise. Overall, a moving bait seen by a moderately active fish will get their attention. Sure, casting angles can play a part but I am not about to hit every sing inch of a lake from every angle to try and find the one picky fish that will only be interested in 1 of the 360 degrees. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | 100% agreed..muskies are not very smart...they have to eat to survive, that is why we catch them on baits that look nothing like what they actually eat...
Edited by BNelson 9/23/2016 11:42 AM
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| The only time you really know when someone in our sport is just offering 'opinion' is when they use the words 'always' or 'never' to describe muskies. Overthinking and out thinking yourself on the water almost certainly will cost you more fish than failing to adjust when you should but staying out of your own head is just about impossible sometimes. You're more likely to see a unicorn from your deer stand than nail down an absolute in musky fishing. |
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| MTJ - 9/23/2016 1:29 PM The only time you really know when someone in our sport is just offering 'opinion' is when they use the words 'always' or 'never' to describe muskies. Overthinking and out thinking yourself on the water almost certainly will cost you more fish than failing to adjust when you should but staying out of your own head is just about impossible sometimes. You're more likely to see a unicorn from your deer stand than nail down an absolute in musky fishing.
Since the group is all about disagreeing... Can I disagree for once?
The only time you really know when someone in our sport is just offering opinion is when they rarely use the words always or never to describe Muskellunge.
Overthinking gives you more options. It mainly comes down to how much data you can analyze and break down at one time in your head when you do not have certain tools to help you make things easier than they would be if you had those tools.
In order to come to the conclusion to deserve to throw the words always and never around, I believe I would have to have experience when it comes to just about everything... or have access to my own or others data based on all of the experiences I can not go through myself.
There are few absolutes... and believe it or not - it takes a ton of data to get to the majority of them.
If you do not believe so... I will be happy to send you a couple projects to work on
I mean well... I promise. I do pretty well, also. Overthinking has not only lead me to a good number of catches (which are absolutes by the way), but positive opportunities in several other subjects as well as different arenas within the same.
Each Muskellunge has a code based on scripts within a system.
Edited by Reelwise 9/23/2016 4:30 PM
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| BNelson...
When we trigger a Muskellunge to react to our lures - we insert a script into it's zone of awareness. The script that triggered the initial response can lead you to the most absolute result we are speaking of, but sometimes we need to change the code within the script with an absolute code in order to get them to "bite." This is when we need to get the proper script in the strike-zone - with an absolute code that leads to an absolute result that can be added to a data base full of irregularities literally within a database full of irregularities hoping for a positive, absolute in order for comfortable survival.
Edited by Reelwise 9/23/2016 4:35 PM
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| So... you think the Muskellunge is dumb? How smart do you think we are then? I believe you are only on a high level of understanding when it comes to what it is you know about yourself and the fish itself.
There is still plenty to learn and plenty to figure out... especially when it comes to the word absolute.
Trust me.
Let's keep having fun guys. |
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| I am willing to do exactly what it is you just said, Kirby. I would literally love nothing more than to hit it from every angle... shallow and deep... day and night... on top, in the middle, and on the bottom, at every possible time.
Not possible, but that is what I try to do anyways... lol |
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Location: Ashland WI | Reelwise - 9/23/2016 4:33 PM
BNelson... When we trigger a Muskellunge to react to our lures - we insert a script into it's zone of awareness. The script that triggered the initial response can lead you to the most absolute result we are speaking of, but sometimes we need to change the code within the script with an absolute code in order to get them to "bite." This is when we need to get the proper script in the strike-zone - with an absolute code that leads to an absolute result that can be added to a data base full of irregularities literally within a database full of irregularities hoping for a positive, absolute in order for comfortable survival.
Are we still talking muskies??? Or are we talking mushrooms?? |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Brandyn,
while you offer some interesting points of view, my take on it is yes, muskies are not intelligent creatures relative to humans..are they 'smart' for their habitat amongst other fish? sure maybe, they are the top of the food chain.. some want to constantly ask the "whys" in the sport, me, I'm happy with keeping it simple, muskies are not hard to catch, nor figure out, in fact, they have more to do with us catching them than we do... I'm happy with my results and don't need to dig all that much deeper... do I want to constantly learn more about them sure, but at the end of the day, they need to eat to survive, we put lures in front of them that most don't look anything like what they eat, and they hit them... if they were 'smart' wouldn't they be smart enough to know the difference.. put a piece of metal with hooks on a plate in front of you when you are hungry, do you eat it? no.
this thread has taken off in another tangent so maybe start a new one....
Edited by BNelson 9/23/2016 5:09 PM
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| Mushrooms in a can... Great idea for the boat. Thank you.
All of us go out there to break down all the variables to the point where we can insert the best piece into the equation in order to reach an absolute result - which is a catch... as well as... enjoy our time and take things easy or put our best effort forward if we choose. We can do one or the other, or do both. Everything takes time.
Intelligence is a unique word in itself and one that can absolutely be argued when it comes to Muskellunge. Since each and every fish is different, each fish is intelligent in a sense that they hold different, and unique information or data based on variables that each fish within the lake have an opportunity to experience, but they do not generally experience the same conditions and often find themselves in a variety of situations at different times throughout their life-time, which just so happens to be a different time period if we are talking Muskellunge of different ages.
Our own personal time frame allows us to break our own individual experiences with each fish down to the point where we can call them dumb - but, at least we all know it would be out of respect. We would not put in the time if we did not love them |
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| "not smart"
Have you ever spooked a fish?
I have spooked some fish... They reacted pretty quick... possibly, never to be seen again.
What about memory?
Storage? |
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Location: Contrarian Island | have you eaten a bucktail when you are hungry?
Edited by BNelson 9/23/2016 5:20 PM
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Location: Stone Lk Wi | Why do I keep opening this thread? |
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| Muskellunge, like us, have instinct. Muskellunge have obviously carried an instinct to feed from a young age to where they get when they reach the point of you catching them on a bucktail.
Sure, we believe they should be eating fish... but, what do Muskellunge eat when they are too small to eat those fish you now believe are normal for them to eat? Probably anything that would fit in it's mouth... The idea that Muskellunge seize the opportunity to eliminate something within the environment that it may perceive as a threat exists also.
Who knows... I guess I'm not very smart in the sense that I actually believe that each fish sometimes requires something requires a unique approach in order to be caught - especially if you want to catch it multiple times throughout the season. I have not figured out every fish yet and I accept that it will not happen.
For all we know, Muskellunge may be thinking a bucktail is a super-giant insect!
So, what do you think about bucktails?
Edited by Reelwise 9/23/2016 5:34 PM
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| A fish in a fish bowl vs a fish in the wild... in a raging stream.
Edited by Reelwise 9/23/2016 5:39 PM
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| I just do not believe we should be leaving behind text that tells people that a high level of thinking or the want or need to figure things out in a variety of ways is unnecessary - or even a bad thing.
The best thing about Muskie fishing is that a lot of us live in different locations, fish different waters, prefer different baits, different ways to use baits, target different fish, as well as many other preferences. So, the best thing, to me - is everything about IT.
The Muskellunge is literally an 'Internal Target.' |
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| Reel... your pasion is admirable...However, set down the bong for an hour.
Edited by mnmusky 9/23/2016 6:18 PM
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| What happens after? |
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| If memory serves me correctly... A sack of funions and a long nap. |
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Location: Stone Lk Wi | Mushrooms and dope no.... Meth binge maybe |
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| You guys obviously have more experience than I do. I would rather not put something in my body with the thought that my memory and projections may be altered in a negative fashion. At least not until I buy a house and put 5 swimming pools in the backyard with a few Muskellunge in all of them. Would be cool to film their intellectual activity in a controlled environment to see if we can come up with some patterns that work every single time. Realistically, though... An entire lifetime on Lake St. Clair would probably be the best option as far as a natural place to figure out the whys and wheres with the most relevant comparisons possible.
I still believe that Muskellunge are smart... I just do not believe they have a high storage capacity. Memory is just too hard to delete - which is why some of us may believe they are not very smart... All due to the fact that most of them all behave in similar ways and like Brad said - must eat to survive.
We must do the same things ourselves...
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| Fish are basically plants with fins. They respond to their environment and that's about it. |
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| All it will take is a fish bowl full of water and a Goldfish to change a lot of minds about fish intelligence, memory, and smarts |
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Location: central Wisconsin | You should get a poll going. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Jeff78 - 9/24/2016 4:06 PM
You should get a poll going.
Lock the thread. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | What's the best sucker rig for goldfish ? |
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Posts: 470
| dfkiii - 9/24/2016 5:45 PM
What's the best sucker rig for goldfish ?
A kid at the county fair with a ping pong ball? |
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Posts: 291
Location: Madison, WI | For God's sake, can anyone just please tell me the best rod for pulling double tens? |
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Posts: 1636
| I love it
How tall are you PredLuR?
The make and model of the boat you will be fishing out of the most will help also...
I'm sure you will get a ton of awesome replies. |
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