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Posts: 1150
Location: Minnesota. | I'm a fly-rodder in another life, yep, trout as well as all our warmwater fish.
I know we all know about wet hands. Maybe not so certain about the gloves...Please watch this -- to the end!! I think it's important. Thanks,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8VETvLLa0o&sns=em
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Posts: 719
| I'm going with not an issue in any way with muskies. On heavily fished waters I have never seen any evidence that handling them with a glove makes any difference...besides my own hands getting torn up NOT using them. |
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Posts: 815
Location: Waukee, IA | Gloves absolutely DO REMOVE SLIME COAT. No argument really needed, it's an accepted truth. The decision is yours to make, but I will never touch a fish with a glove to help prevent mortality via infection. |
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Bob, better make sure you correct Saric on this next time you fish together as I have seen him wear one....it's an "accepted truth" and a guy online says so!
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | well hello fly-rodder, i'm a musky guy ... |
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| Read a good article years back by a fisheries biologist. He stated that gloves may remove slime but that often the angler has to grip the fish so hard without a glove that much more damage is done. He was referencing trout. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | Not all gloves are created equally.
Then again what do I know, I'm just a crappie guy. |
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Posts: 4269
Location: Ashland WI | dfkiii - 2/23/2016 7:05 AM
Not all gloves are created equally.
Then again what do I know, I'm just a crappie guy.
Crappie?? or crappy??
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Posts: 1220
| Gloves allow a firm grip which maintain control. A bleeding hand full of gill plate tends to allow a significant degree of slippage often resulting in a spine challenged fish banging on the floor. It's not about "perfect," it's about "better." |
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | jonnysled - 2/23/2016 6:52 AM
well hello fly-rodder, i'm a musky guy ...
you will have to pass the " is it 53" or 63"?" test before we make that determination |
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Posts: 1150
Location: Minnesota. | jonnysled - 2/23/2016 6:52 AM
well hello fly-rodder, i'm a musky guy ...
Quit it you.....:-)) |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | At one point this might have had the potential for serious discussion...that's winternet
Edited by horsehunter 2/23/2016 8:40 AM
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Location: oswego, il | Vice clamps ok? |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Is it possible that the infection rate is a lot different for a fish released into the lake as opposed to two weeks in a small tank for filming. I have recaptured a number of fish I tagged back in the 90's wearing gloves and never saw any ill effects. Muskies do regenerate slime over time. Any fisheries worker I ever watched or assisted with netting was always wearing gloves. We have caught muskies in the late fall in the outlet from Lake Ontario to the Larry with the slime hanging off like gelatin leaving much slime in the net. An American biologist told me that he thought these were fish feeding in deep cold water on lake trout. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | Good point Frank, so let's have that discussion.
Was it the glove or was it the release technique ? Watching the video, the fish is clearly demonstrating it is ready to go yet the "gloved one" is still holding on strong allowing it to keep kicking that tail while firmly in the gloved one's grasp.
How many of you hang on to that musky while it's kicking it's tail in your hand ? |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i'd argue that time and pushing them around kills a whole lot more than a wet glove in the gil plate, belly and then tail. just supporting a fish with a loose but capable grip until she can support herself is what's needed. also, do them a favor and release them back close to the structure instead of wherever the boat wandered off to. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Possibly we should make sure our glove was wet before we handle fish. ( I think I always have but would be easy to forget with the excitement of a big fish then again I have been accused of never getting excited ) |
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Posts: 132
| My question is... Are there long term effects? I'm going to guess that the fish will heal over the next 2 weeks and be back to normal. But what do I know? They get more beat up from spawning than this. Gashes all over, etc. Then come summer, they look like nothing happened. I'd think a gash on it's side is much worse than having a little slime removed. I'm leaning towards the fish healing on it's own after a couple more weeks. |
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Location: oswego, il | I too would love to see what the long term affect is on the fish. As stated the person was holding on to a fish that wanted loose, therefore had a much harder grip than needed. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | dfkiii - 2/23/2016 8:05 AM
Not all gloves are created equally.
Then again what do I know, I'm just a crappie guy.
I remember years ago some were suggesting welding gloves I tried them and they lasted 3 seconds |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | ToddM - 2/23/2016 9:17 AM
I too would love to see what the long term affect is on the fish. As stated the person was holding on to a fish that wanted loose, therefore had a much harder grip than needed.
Lucky for you the glove in the video isn't blue or there would be hell to pay ! |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | This is much like the original release mortality studies done long ago. Fish in captivity are far from good examples of what happens in the wild. Watch the video again and ignore the tail, look at the other fins and the nose. This fish was beating itself up in captivity and the stress only compounded the slime loss on the wrist of the tail. This is good for their agenda but in reality isn't very good science and really has no correlation to how we handle muskies. |
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Posts: 719
| Additionally having gloves on lets you handle the fish with more confidence especially when unhooking a fish that is hooked in a manner that requires cutting hooks etc. Muskies don't get killed by people simply wearing gloves they killed by mis-handling and occasionally by getting the hook in the wrong place. Most mortality is totally avoidable with good handling techniques.
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| I use to be a horseshoer (farrier) and my hands were sliced and diced daily by nails not always going where planned. My hands were those like any brute sort of a guy who worked outdoors at a real job, gloves were for sissies, and my wife bristled at the touch. No real man I knew would wear gloves period. Now, I'm a refined sort of gentleman with the smooth sort of hands that a beautiful woman likes to hold. So let the mob know I'm wearing a glove, it's not a problem. And, when I release the head back into the water with my gloved left hand, my bare right hand holds the tail until she swims away. I just don't know a better way. |
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Posts: 719
| Additionally having gloves on lets you handle the fish with more confidence especially when unhooking a fish that is hooked in a manner that requires cutting hooks etc. Muskies don't get killed by people simply wearing gloves they killed by mis-handling and occasionally by getting the hook in the wrong place. Most mortality is totally avoidable with good handling techniques.
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Location: oswego, il | dfkiii - 2/23/2016 9:20 AM
ToddM - 2/23/2016 9:17 AM
I too would love to see what the long term affect is on the fish. As stated the person was holding on to a fish that wanted loose, therefore had a much harder grip than needed.
Lucky for you the glove in the video isn't blue or there would be hell to pay !
Florescent blue actually. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Junkman - 2/23/2016 10:13 AM
I use to be a horseshoer (farrier) and my hands were sliced and diced daily by nails not always going where planned. My hands were those like any brute sort of a guy who worked outdoors at a real job, gloves were for sissies, and my wife bristled at the touch. No real man I knew would wear gloves period. Now, I'm a refined sort of gentleman with the smooth sort of hands that a beautiful woman likes to hold. So let the mob know I'm wearing a glove, it's not a problem. And, when I release the head back into the water with my gloved left hand, my bare right hand holds the tail until she swims away. I just don't know a better way.
i'd just like to acknowledge that this paragraph flowed like it came out of a John Steinbeck novel. |
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| Don't know about Steinbeck, but I think we can say with some certainty that never before have the words brute and bristle been used in the same sentence on this board. |
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Location: Waukee, IA | Musky Brian - 2/23/2016 6:07 AM
Bob, better make sure you correct Saric on this next time you fish together as I have seen him wear one....it's an "accepted truth" and a guy online says so!
Well don't I feel foolish making my decisions based on scientific evidence rather than a gut feeling. You sure showed me who the ignoramus is. |
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Posts: 756
| bturg - 2/22/2016 11:20 PM
I'm going with not an issue in any way with muskies. On heavily fished waters I have never seen any evidence that handling them with a glove makes any difference...besides my own hands getting torn up NOT using them.
C'mon Bob, really how often do gloves save a guy from bleeding (insert Sarcasm filter here) |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | jonnysled - 2/23/2016 10:49 AM
Junkman - 2/23/2016 10:13 AM
I use to be a horseshoer (farrier) and my hands were sliced and diced daily by nails not always going where planned. My hands were those like any brute sort of a guy who worked outdoors at a real job, gloves were for sissies, and my wife bristled at the touch. No real man I knew would wear gloves period. Now, I'm a refined sort of gentleman with the smooth sort of hands that a beautiful woman likes to hold. So let the mob know I'm wearing a glove, it's not a problem. And, when I release the head back into the water with my gloved left hand, my bare right hand holds the tail until she swims away. I just don't know a better way.
i'd just like to acknowledge that this paragraph flowed like it came out of a John Steinbeck novel.
Ah yes. A great book, 'Of Mice and Musky Guys'... |
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Posts: 517
Location: Ludington, MI | I demand satisfaction!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnx9zt5Wzmg |
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| One question: was that a fresh, clean, new glove? |
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| ToddM - 2/23/2016 8:47 AM
Vice clamps ok?
I'm sorry...I know I shouldn't laugh...but...dangit.....hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaaaa!!!!
Cracking me up...
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | tkuntz - 2/23/2016 11:21 AM
Musky Brian - 2/23/2016 6:07 AM
Bob, better make sure you correct Saric on this next time you fish together as I have seen him wear one....it's an "accepted truth" and a guy online says so!
Well don't I feel foolish making my decisions based on scientific evidence rather than a gut feeling. You sure showed me who the ignoramus is.
would you mind sharing your "scientific evidence" that illustrates holding the underside of a fishes jaw for 30 seconds with a wet glove is damaging to a musky?
Edited by Musky Brian 2/23/2016 2:14 PM
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| This discussion makes me think that I'd hate to be the 1 out of 5 dentists that didn't recommend a toothpaste in all those commercials. |
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Posts: 267
| I would think nets do far more harm than gloves. |
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Posts: 1828
| Smell_Esox - 2/23/2016 2:32 PM
I would think nets do far more harm than gloves.
Exactly.
We inflict multiple puncture wounds in their face [and potentially their gills and/or other locations on the body], let them wrap up tightly in small-diameter, tight line, make them fight for their life against up to 25 pounds pulling at their face (gills, or other body part) for up to a couple minutes, then force them into a small contraption which abrasively rubs against their entire body while they desperately try to break through, out, or over said contraption...
and then worry about whether you should gently lift them from the net with a wet, smooth glove or a wet bare hand [while also depriving them of oxygen for up to a minute or so]...
Nothing better to argue about? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i think it was the Kuntz was the one who started it ... |
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Location: oswego, il | Michael Jackson wore a glove and no harm came to any adult muskie.
Edited by ToddM 2/23/2016 4:41 PM
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Posts: 1040
| jonnysled - 2/23/2016 10:49 AM
Junkman - 2/23/2016 10:13 AM
I use to be a horseshoer (farrier) and my hands were sliced and diced daily by nails not always going where planned. My hands were those like any brute sort of a guy who worked outdoors at a real job, gloves were for sissies, and my wife bristled at the touch. No real man I knew would wear gloves period. Now, I'm a refined sort of gentleman with the smooth sort of hands that a beautiful woman likes to hold. So let the mob know I'm wearing a glove, it's not a problem. And, when I release the head back into the water with my gloved left hand, my bare right hand holds the tail until she swims away. I just don't know a better way.
i'd just like to acknowledge that this paragraph flowed like it came out of a John Steinbeck novel.
More like Nora Roberts.... Now admit it, you googled her.... |
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| ToddM - 2/23/2016 3:44 PM
Michael Jackson wore a glove and no harm came to any adult muskie.
Or any adult anything else... |
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Posts: 1150
Location: Minnesota. | horsehunter - 2/23/2016 8:52 AM
Is it possible that the infection rate is a lot different for a fish released into the lake as opposed to two weeks in a small tank for filming. I have recaptured a number of fish I tagged back in the 90's wearing gloves and never saw any ill effects. Muskies do regenerate slime over time. Any fisheries worker I ever watched or assisted with netting was always wearing gloves. We have caught muskies in the late fall in the outlet from Lake Ontario to the Larry with the slime hanging off like gelatin leaving much slime in the net. An American biologist told me that he thought these were fish feeding in deep cold water on lake trout.
Good points Frank.
If those recaptured fish didn't show any ill effects then my post was pointless I guess. Maybe our muskies are a bit different in their slime-producing...at least I hope so. Trout might be different critters, who knows??
Still, I have my doubts but I figured it would be good to hear varied opinions.
Also good to toss a bone into the pen and stand back a bit and watch ;-)) ( - but that wasn't my initial intention.)
Jeremy.
Edited by Jeremy 2/23/2016 5:49 PM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | throwin the bone to kuntz can make it entertaining in a hurry! |
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Posts: 20277
Location: oswego, il | Trout and salmon have much smaller and more delicate scales. You can scale a coho for instance with a hose. You net one and you have scales all over. |
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Location: Blaine, MN | jonnysled - 2/23/2016 5:57 PM
throwin the bone to kuntz can make it entertaining in a hurry!
If not entertaining, at least there is usually a happy ending! |
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| White cotton gloves?? Only upitty "fly guys" have Jeeves release their fish!! I think the results would be a little different with Lindy gloves or even the Musky Armor gloves. I think it should be pretty obvious that touching fish with super absorbent material is probably uncool...so scratch the terry cloth bump board idea! |
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Posts: 171
Location: Cedarburg, WI. | So if I clamp down on a healthy muskie's tail that is clearly trying to swim away under its own power with a glove on, it will get infections on the 2 main pressure points where I applied the force nessecary to restrict it from swimming away?!? Wow! Mind blown! I understand slime and why fish need it. That video in my opinion was a great example of a poor release if anything. I may be newer to musky fishing, but very light grip just to hold it upright is all it takes. In my experience the fish had no problem letting me know when it was ready to go. |
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Location: oconomowoc, wi | thats it! Dadson Musky Armor gloves for sale! $150.00! |
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| short STRIKE - 2/23/2016 6:02 PM
jonnysled - 2/23/2016 5:57 PM
throwin the bone to kuntz can make it entertaining in a hurry!
If not entertaining, at least there is usually a happy ending!
Bwaaaaa hahaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. |
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Posts: 3163
| Michael Jackson was a muskie fisherman,,,had a place in Hackensack,,he loved to be in and out and all over "little boy"
His best tactic was moon walk the dog baits,,,,his favorite-"the phat boy" he loved working little phat boys!!!
God this is a new low,,,even for me!!!!
Edited by happy hooker 2/23/2016 8:01 PM
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| I understand it. I don't get the negatives. A dry glove tail hold can remove the slim coat and the video shows what can happen. Lots of stuff can happen when we handle fish and it's a great example. The video wasn't about a wet glove gill hold.
Thanks for the video. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | But does the dry glove need to be cotton too? or are all dry gloves bad?? |
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Posts: 1086
| Fishing Basics 101: When fishing for sport, with intent to release fish...always handle fish with wet hands.
Any fish. Any species.
If fishing for table fare...well then...
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Posts: 239
Location: Madison, WI | jonnysled - 2/23/2016 10:49 AM
Junkman - 2/23/2016 10:13 AM
I use to be a horseshoer (farrier) and my hands were sliced and diced daily by nails not always going where planned. My hands were those like any brute sort of a guy who worked outdoors at a real job, gloves were for sissies, and my wife bristled at the touch. No real man I knew would wear gloves period. Now, I'm a refined sort of gentleman with the smooth sort of hands that a beautiful woman likes to hold. So let the mob know I'm wearing a glove, it's not a problem. And, when I release the head back into the water with my gloved left hand, my bare right hand holds the tail until she swims away. I just don't know a better way.
i'd just like to acknowledge that this paragraph flowed like it came out of a John Steinbeck novel.
Agreed. A refreshing change from the norm! |
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Posts: 45
| Where I'm from, certain 'fly-rodders' do more harm to Muskies than gloves do, but that's for another thread. After spending a fair amount of time in Alaska, fishing salmon and Pike on fly equipment that is the best tool and adequately built for the quarry I'm after, I'm disappointed when I see the drag out epic battles with 33.5" Muskies during warm/low river conditions. I know it is an exceptionally sporting way to fish, but please, take a lesson from the guys on a couple of the Musky television episodes, and use the proper equipment and land your fish once hooked.
Edited by Boots Electric 2/24/2016 10:09 PM
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| Wouldn't be the worst idea for a separate thread on "The joy of playing a musky." Clearly not a joy for all parties in my view, and with needed adjustment for water temps and much else....but it might be a spirited discussion. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Junkman - 2/25/2016 7:59 AM
Wouldn't be the worst idea for a separate thread on "The joy of playing a musky." Clearly not a joy for all parties in my view, and with needed adjustment for water temps and much else....but it might be a spirited discussion.
totally agree!! why rush a fish to the bag so fast you have no enjoyment of catching them? within reason of course but is an immediate catch, green fish in a net bag any worse than a fish that comes in ready after you've had some time enjoying their power? |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | So I don't have to use tuna gear when fishing for muskies ? Let the fight begin ! |
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Location: oswego, il | Spirited battles for everyone, even a farrier like Junkman. Can't you do the old fliparoo with a 33.5 +/- .25 (depending on the bump board) incher? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Marty ... in HS and College, I made my drinking money trimming cow feet ... our operation never seemed as detailed and finesse as those working Horse hooves though. did you consider hoof trimmers farriers? or was there a lesser grade attributed to them?
$15/head was the going rate back then. got schidt on over the shoulder moving some stubborn girls into the chute and learned how accurate a cow could be with a kick, even while standing on 3 legs!! ahh, those were the days!! |
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| Junkman - 2/25/2016 7:59 AM
Wouldn't be the worst idea for a separate thread on "The joy of playing a musky." Clearly not a joy for all parties in my view, and with needed adjustment for water temps and much else....but it might be a spirited discussion.
I don't know about you guys, but the day I stop having fun fighting fish I'm hanging up my musky hat and finding something else to do. A lot of guys fight muskies like they're on a timer set to expire at the 15 second mark. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | esoxaddict - 2/25/2016 9:21 AM
Junkman - 2/25/2016 7:59 AM
Wouldn't be the worst idea for a separate thread on "The joy of playing a musky." Clearly not a joy for all parties in my view, and with needed adjustment for water temps and much else....but it might be a spirited discussion.
I don't know about you guys, but the day I stop having fun fighting fish I'm hanging up my musky hat and finding something else to do. A lot of guys fight muskies like they're on a timer set to expire at the 15 second mark.
Agreed. Even some of the mid 30s fish (northern WI, so no giants here) kick up a good fight from time to time. Trolling is a bit of a different story though. The few fish I trolled up this summer seemed to be more like reeling in a sack of potatoes. I guess the upside is you can do it with a beer in one hand. |
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Posts: 1220
| try #2
1. No, a cow trimmer is not like a graduate farrier, just a farmer! 
2. Jeeeeeze, don't get erect about fighting fish, I certainly have no argument Jeff. It's totally fair to have the fun and excitement you paid for. There is just a real honest discussion to be had about when and where it's all appropriate and when it's not the wisest choice. Twenty minutes with a Cave Run Musky on 15lb test right this minute (February) will likely leave a fish tired but mostly unharmed (depending on the handling and release of course) while doing it with the same fish in shallow water in July will likely lead to a KY bar-b-que. It is what it is! Also, it's a world of difference doing what a skilled angler can do when it's the skilled angler doing it, than what an unskilled angler does with the information he reads. I think that's why so many are overly PC with the advice. Every floater cancels 1000 properly handled fish. |
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| Marty, I wasn't trying to start an argument - obviously we want them back in the water quickly and in one piece, and that becomes increasingly more crucial in warm water. That said, I prefer to put them in the net when they're ready. If that means letting them have another run, I'll enjoy the brief time with a fish on the end of the line. I don't think we're doing them any favors horsing them into the net green so they can go nuts, roll up in the line, hooks in the head and tangled in the bag, etc. It's worth a discussion to remind folks what can happen in warm water, having tools ready, not take 15 pictures, etc. |
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| tkuntz - 2/23/2016 5:41 AM
Gloves absolutely DO REMOVE SLIME COAT. No argument really needed, it's an accepted truth. The decision is yours to make, but I will never touch a fish with a glove to help prevent mortality via infection.
I use wet rubber coated gloves.. Your hands remove just as much slime - no argument. My decision since I often catch 15-20 muskies a week is to protect my own hands..not hurting the fish anymore or any less than a gloveless hand. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | IAJustin - 2/25/2016 11:04 AM
I use wet rubber coated gloves.. Your hands remove just as much slime - no argument. My decision since I often catch 15-20 muskies a week is to protect my own hands..not hurting the fish anymore or any less than a gloveless hand.
15-20 a week ? Now there's a bonafide "Musky Guy"... |
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| I only wore a glove one day after putting a 7/0 hook through my hand in two places. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | I would have worn a glove, but I didn't want to remove any slime from the fish.
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Location: varies | dfkiii - 2/25/2016 12:15 PM
IAJustin - 2/25/2016 11:04 AM
I use wet rubber coated gloves.. Your hands remove just as much slime - no argument. My decision since I often catch 15-20 muskies a week is to protect my own hands..not hurting the fish anymore or any less than a gloveless hand.
15-20 a week ? Now there's a bonafide "Musky guy"
His dadson must be nearing half- life at that rate. |
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| don't own a single dadson... Wouldn't be fair if I did, probably easier than sucker fishing |
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Location: Contrarian Island | easier than saltwater fishing too! |
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Location: Minnesota. | dfkiii - 2/25/2016 12:39 PM
I would have worn a glove, but I didn't want to remove any slime from the fish.
Wow...I feel for you man. That looks terrible!!
It's also the reason I fish barbless -- except for spinnerbaits.
Jeremy. |
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | esoxaddict - 2/25/2016 9:21 AM
Junkman - 2/25/2016 7:59 AM
Wouldn't be the worst idea for a separate thread on "The joy of playing a musky." Clearly not a joy for all parties in my view, and with needed adjustment for water temps and much else....but it might be a spirited discussion.
I don't know about you guys, but the day I stop having fun fighting fish I'm hanging up my musky hat and finding something else to do. A lot of guys fight muskies like they're on a timer set to expire at the 15 second mark.
I want them in the net asap....has nothing to do with being worried about playing them and a health concern. Has everything to do with the bastards finding ways to come unglued and me wanting them landed before that happens |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | Jeremy - 2/25/2016 5:23 PM
dfkiii - 2/25/2016 12:39 PM
I would have worn a glove, but I didn't want to remove any slime from the fish.
Wow...I feel for you man. That looks terrible!!
It's also the reason I fish barbless -- except for spinnerbaits.
Jeremy.
It looked a bit "angrier" while I was connected to a 40" fish via a Pacemaker. Unfortunately, I wasn't really in a position to take a photo at that time.
Thank God for a handy pair of Knipex. |
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| dfkiii - 2/25/2016 12:39 PM
I would have worn a glove, but I didn't want to remove any slime from the fish.
Way to sacrifice man! Take one for the team!
Also, was it the cotton gloves that turned Michael white? |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | I say the death grip on the tail...as the fish was clearly trying to swim away was the biggest problem....I have never once held any sort of fish that tight around the tail...he had a death grip on it as the fish's tail was trashing back and fourth trying to get away...I'm not buying what this video is trying to sell...show another video where the "angler" puts the fish in the water and just lets it go without a death grip.... |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | MikeHulbert - 2/29/2016 11:11 AM I'm not buying what this video is trying to sell...show another video where the "angler" puts the fish in the water and just lets it go without a death grip.... The video is attempting to show the damage that can be caused using a tailing glove to land fish, not release them. Using a tailing glove to land is a common practice with many species both fresh and saltwater.
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | Yet the OP appeared to be drawing a correlation between wearing gloves and resulting effect on the fish touched with said gloves.
Does anybody here use a "tailing glove" to land musky ? Maybe I'm old school, but a Frabil works just fine for me.
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | This is going to make me feel OLD... but I must be a little more old school. I fished many years without using a net because they were so hard on the fish. We hand landed, or water released, everything and tailing muskies was part of the process if we wanted a photo. The wrist of their tail, similar to a Chinook Salmon, doesn't require a tailing glove but it can be helpful. |
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Posts: 793
Location: Ames, Iowa | http://www.iowasportsman.com/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=972705
I put this on the Biology forum a couple days ago |
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Posts: 559
| I watched this about a week ago, Found it funny how this thread dried up so fast after this was posted. those Iowa fish must be a lot stronger than most fish you guys are talking about |
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