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| I am planning a trip to Cave Run Lake in Kentucky. I found a map of the lake on the lakes website where they say they installed man-made structures to "provide anglers additional places to focus their fishing". I was just wondering what structures I should be focusing on (wood pallets, plastic) because this lake is pretty big. I will attach the link to the website so you can read it for yourself. Thank you
Link : http://fw.ky.gov/Fish/Documents/CRL_Attractor_Map.pdf |
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Location: Lebanon,Mo | All depends on time of year,water temp,and a thousand other things. Fish move all over.. |
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| Mid April in Kentucky so should be around 60 degrees |
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| Where are you staying? The guys staying at Tony Grant's place are pretty open, stay there, it's fun as well. With this weather the way it's been it could be in the 70's and the fish will be on all over the places. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The structures Muskies like the best have food available. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Structure oriented fish are all pretty similar in how they use structures. Quite often the best structure will have cover or structures such as cribs, rock, weed, wood, etc. So the answer to your question would be to identify which man made structures are on or near the best structure. |
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Location: Northern IL | The word "Structures" in this case is being used in a very loose way. The correct definition for these 'Structures" is Break. "Structure" as it was coined is: "The bottom of a body of water that is different from the surrounding bottom area". These planted "Breaks" will all hold fish of all species at one time or another. If you want to know if they prefer wood over plastic, I have no idea but cant imagine it making much difference. The best most consistent Structure, Breaks or Breaklines whether they be man made or natural will always be the ones near deep water. These things are great for business...  |
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| Ya it's a big lake, but the map shows only a small area of it. I've only been there twice, but those are basically community spots. Stick to the 20s and Clay Lick then explore those other areas, including coves wit water coming in. Compare that to the navionics site. When you get on the water you will see lots of company. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | jerryb - 2/18/2016 3:47 PM The word "Structures" in this case is being used in a very loose way. The correct definition for these 'Structures" is Break. "Structure" as it was coined is: "The bottom of a body of water that is different from the surrounding bottom area". These planted "Breaks" will all hold fish of all species at one time or another. If you want to know if they prefer wood over plastic, I have no idea but cant imagine it making much difference. The best most consistent Structure, Breaks or Breaklines whether they be man made or natural will always be the ones near deep water. These things are great for business... :) LOL - As soon as I read this question and initial replies I said to myself 'I'll bet jerryb is going to cringe as much as me".
Edited by Will Schultz 2/19/2016 10:38 AM
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Location: Northern IL | Ha Ha!
As you know Will it's a common mix up as is many terms in fishing today. Terms take on different meanings from fishermen to fishermen. However it does make a big difference if we are to communicate effectively. Structure is probably one of the worst, everything is structure. I once went to a seminar to hear a well known Muskie Guide and author speak on the subject and walked out more confused than ever about what 'Structure" is and how and or why fish use it. If CSF picks up that a planted "crib" or a rock pile is really only a break on structure then maybe we did some good. Good Luck in 16! |
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| sworrall - 2/18/2016 7:59 AM
The structures Muskies like the best have food available.
Bingo!!! |
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Location: davis,IL | What structures do they like best?...... The ones you passed by and are not fishing....At least that's the biters.... If you're like me, you'll fish the spots with the tourist fish... you know the ones, they follow, try to look interested (but aren't) and swim away and break your heart. Seriously though, fish anything with emerging green weeds, generally on the northern shore of the lake (should warm first in spring). Also look for wood and such, never ignore baitfish. Look for the warmest water.... |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | What SWORRALL said! LOL - The surface of the water is also structure! It defines one of their evironmental limits, unless they are hooked up throwing my lures back at me!
Find the food-> find the fish!
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 2/21/2016 7:48 AM
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| Will Schultz - 2/19/2016 9:30 AM
jerryb - 2/18/2016 3:47 PM The word "Structures" in this case is being used in a very loose way. The correct definition for these 'Structures" is Break. "Structure" as it was coined is: "The bottom of a body of water that is different from the surrounding bottom area". These planted "Breaks" will all hold fish of all species at one time or another. If you want to know if they prefer wood over plastic, I have no idea but cant imagine it making much difference. The best most consistent Structure, Breaks or Breaklines whether they be man made or natural will always be the ones near deep water. These things are great for business... :) LOL - As soon as I read this question and initial replies I said to myself 'I'll bet jerryb is going to cringe as much as me".
He was asking about breaks which he and you both called man made 'structures'. You were cringing because jerry corrected you as well. |
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| I'm gonna get as anal as you spoonpluggers and chime in... He used structures the way it was used in the link he attached, wood or plastic... He didn't use it loosely, he used it how it was defined, not to be lectured or to start an argument with someone online about their perfectionistic fishing terminology, but to get an idea of what exact locations to focus his limited time and efforts on. Chill out, you may be "experts", but not everyone is, nor cares to be. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Boots Electric - 2/25/2016 2:07 AM Will Schultz - 2/19/2016 9:30 AM jerryb - 2/18/2016 3:47 PM The word "Structures" in this case is being used in a very loose way. The correct definition for these 'Structures" is Break. "Structure" as it was coined is: "The bottom of a body of water that is different from the surrounding bottom area". These planted "Breaks" will all hold fish of all species at one time or another. If you want to know if they prefer wood over plastic, I have no idea but cant imagine it making much difference. The best most consistent Structure, Breaks or Breaklines whether they be man made or natural will always be the ones near deep water. These things are great for business... :) LOL - As soon as I read this question and initial replies I said to myself 'I'll bet jerryb is going to cringe as much as me".
He was asking about breaks which he and you both called man made 'structures'. You were cringing because jerry corrected you as well. Actually, I called them cover which is exactly what a break is. My comment is also accurate concerning structures being on or near the best structure. I read the info in the link and what they called structures which is why I continued to refer to them as "structures". A structure and "structures" are not the same.
Edited by Will Schultz 2/25/2016 5:25 PM
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Location: Northern IL | No one here has claimed to be "experts" so lighten up Franny! No lecture was given. Will knows the terms and no correction or finger pointing was attempted.
Words and fishing terms have meanings, used and understood correctly will maximize CFS's limited time on the water. Used incorrect causes confusion and a lots of waisted time fishing "breaks" that don't hold fish.
You can have structure and no fish but you will NEVER have fish without structure.
Edited by jerryb 2/25/2016 7:28 PM
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| Never? I guess water is structure...you will never have open water fish or fish laying in miles of featureless 4' sand flats with out water! Water is great structure! |
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Location: Northern IL | Never is what I said,,, even if a lake has water. At this rate this could go on a long, long time...
With the scenario you describe the fish will be found using some kind of feature or break connected to the bottom. If an area has holes or pockets it's not due to the weed but the makeup of the bottom.
Again, Structure is "The bottom of a body of water different from the surrounding bottom area" .
let me also add it's only "Structure" if it's used by the fish in there movements and migrations. A large rock pile or weed bed may in fact be different than the surrounding bottom area (and look great to a fisherman) but if the fish don't use it (for other reasons) it's just another rock pile or weed bed.
If an area or an entire lake as described above is fished long enough the angler with enough time and success will begin to see the fish continually come from and use the same areas or spots. |
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| well based on your own definition of "structure" ..I've caught many muskies not using structure.. so your claim of "never" is ..well, wrong! Like I said I've never caught a muskie on land..you'll find them in the water. Good day. |
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| So, on some days your "structure" really aren't? OP, don't use the structures that really aren't... note Steve's comment. |
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| Steve is right on the money. Take what he said and head to Zilpo flats and start chucking. That's where I would start. I wish you luck. Cave Run is a fun place to fish. |
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Location: Northern IL | Okay last one for me.
Iaj, I'm having trouble understanding what the h€ck your even talking about.... Who fishes on land? And btw its not "my definition" but ""THE""definition, trust me friend that was done, and done quite well a long time ago and needs nothing to be added.
Quoting myself ha ha
"If an area or an entire lake is fished long enough the angler with enough time and "success" will begin to see the fish continually come from and use the same areas or spots". Why is this true? And if you think it's not true, then why when a fish is caught is "Where" the first question asked? Buck was asked why do you repeat some of the things you say so often in your book? His answer, "Because most fishermen have thick skulls".
"A large (or small) rock pile or weed bed may in fact be different than the surrounding bottom area (and look great to a fisherman) but if the fish don't use it,,,, "EVER" (for other reasons) it's just another rock pile or weed bed. The key to the answer is, "for other reasons".
AR, not a bad point however all species of fish use structure, breaks and breaklines, even bait. Bait may in fact be present on a spot and a clue to an area being productive but there are a whole lot of fish caught where no bait is present.
The Walleye makes a seasonal run towards the head waters in a reservoir or up a river or creek in a natural lake in the early spring, does that mean he will not use "structure" breaks or breaklines near the dam or the deepest water available in the fall of the year?
Seasonal movements are in play no matter the species.
Cave Run is a fun lake and the Zilpo flats are a good area but what makes this area tick? It's great to say just start going but how about giving him something to aim at? All fish follow a migration route or path to get from here to there. Along this route they will stop or pause at breaks along the way. What is the key to the route the fish use to this area? If CFS was to spend his time along this route he would be in a much better position to catch a fish, if not his chances are greatly reduced.
The first time I met Gregg Thomas we took pictures of each other's 30" fish, long time ago. There was a school of small muskies located in Little Cave, I made a trolling pass and missed a Muskie just minutes before Gregg waived me over. Took his pic and went back through the area and landed one, he returned the favor. That was probably the last time Gregg took a picture of a fish that small ha ha. One answer to the above is "The feeder creeks". Over n out!
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| caught plenty in large featureless basin's .. they are there because they are comfortable, hanging around the thermocline to be comfortable, suspended at 15-17 feet over 50-60' - these fish don't give a hoot about "The bottom of a body of water different from the surrounding bottom area" ... they are nomads moving with the wind - Sometimes figuratively as the biomass / food chain, move with heavy winds....seams they get hungry and start to suspend in 8-12 feet of water for long periods.. guess it makes it easier to pop a bluegill or shad swimming near the surface... I have pounded my small "home" lake to death .. one thing is for certain I can't make a cast to anywhere on this 500 acre lake that I haven't caught a muskie... so I guess the entire lake is structure.. one thing is for sure the entire lake is water
Edited by IAJustin 2/29/2016 2:04 PM
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| IA, to be clear, the water is therefore structure because fish use it? |
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Location: oswego, il | I have caught fish in and around bubblers so the comment that water is structure is complete bull#*#*.
Edited by ToddM 3/1/2016 6:19 AM
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | IAJustin - Structure is made up of three things breaks, breaklines and deep water. No basin is featureless, breaklines are out there too. |
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| ARmuskyaddict - 3/1/2016 5:37 AM
IA, to be clear, the water is therefore structure because fish use it?
I guess that what we have come to conclude The entire lake is structure.. and a lake is water ..the best structure is water if you want to catch fish! Since you will NEVER catch a fish NOT using structure. |
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Location: oswego, il | As I pointed out air is also structure.:-) |
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Location: varies | IAJustin - 3/1/2016 3:41 PM
ARmuskyaddict - 3/1/2016 5:37 AM
IA, to be clear, the water is therefore structure because fish use it?
I guess that what we have come to conclude The entire lake is structure.. and a lake is water ..the best structure is water if you want to catch fish! Since you will NEVER catch a fish NOT using structure.
U could, in theory, catch a walking cat fish or snake head not using water.  |
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| So, you're saying there's a chance... that land may also be structure? Wood or plastic on the land as well? |
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| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84rqMzH4Nvw
apparently you use a tailing glove and simply walk out in the street.
Edited by mnmusky 3/1/2016 5:24 PM
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| Looks pretty featureless to me. |
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Location: Aurora | Or you can try casting down the street like Mehsikomer does in this video at about the 6:30 mark. Notice the tree-lined neighbourhood roadbed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzY3N51Xr0g&list=PLF6lBdd7gK9FTnuJsy...
Edited by Sidejack 3/1/2016 5:37 PM
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| Do you see any damage Russ? |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | LOL- This one went south fast! Back on topic.......
ToddM - I know a lot of your fish use air as structure to escape from your lure's
too!
Crazysoxfan - Yes, muskies definitely use man-made structure's..The link you posted has precise GPS coordinates for all the locations and man-made structure types. They all will likely attract muskie forage fish. Pick some and give them a shot..
If it were me, I'd also ask one of the guy's whom fish there regularly, like Tony Grant, Gregg Thomas. Sadly Crash is gone, but you can check with his son Justin, the apple probably didn't fall to far from the tree.
Muskies also use natural structures, downed tree's, submerged rocks, etc. Yes, the shoreline is also structure (another environmental limit) F.ex. The Cave fish also spawn, so during pre-spawn,spawn, and post-spawn they are not likely going to be on cribs or man-made structure. They also will follow the forage to forage spawning area's...so time of year can be critical, the man-made structures may not be holding many or any muskies.
Lastly, you need to understand the Cave is a man-made lake, much like the Petenwell and Castle Rock here in Central WI. The lake pool levels are highly variable depending on time of year, etc. It looks like its ~10' above winter pool and ~4' above summer pool today.
http://lrl-apps.lrl.usace.army.mil/wc/reports/lkreport.html
For the rest of you guys, another tool I use....
http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/visitors/projects.cfm?Id=H202780
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 3/2/2016 7:39 AM
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| Al makes some sense, followed by more cringing by Buck/Jerry/Will.
Edited by Boots Electric 3/2/2016 1:31 PM
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Location: Ames, Iowa | On the lake I fish I'd consider thermocline structure too. Imagine musky fishermen getting all wizzy over semantics. Only in March. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | This has to be one of the strangest threads of the year.
Carry on. |
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| Jerome, find some work down thare and lets go find what structures work best. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Boots Electric - 3/2/2016 2:27 PM Al makes some sense, followed by more cringing by Buck/Jerry/Will. The reason I said "cringe" is because the terms were defined many years ago but are rarely used correctly in print, on television shows, or by most anglers.
djwilliams - 3/3/2016 10:54 AM On the lake I fish I'd consider thermocline structure too. Imagine musky fishermen getting all wizzy over semantics. Only in March. A thermocline is a breakline and fish will use them as such. It's not semantics. Analogy: Calling a stop sign an intersection. A stop sign might be located at an intersection but a stop sign is never an intersection. You can call it what you want, I'm going to stick with what I learned as a kid from the fathers of modern angling like Al Linder, Ron Linder, Buck Perry, Spence Petros. . To understand structure fishing and what good structure is, allows us to fish smarter and catch more an bigger fish.
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Location: Ames, Iowa | I agree. |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | I'll stick with the classic defintion of structure. Its easier and gives one the freedom to think outside the box...so many structure's that fish uses at various times. The lake bottom itself is a structural limit, as is the surface.. the water itself has various structural elements to it, including thermalclines, current break's, learning to use them is the trick, because fish do use them. A school of cisco's or shad has structural elements, so in my mind I treat it as natural structure that predators relate to also..
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie...
Just two simple concepts: 1. Natural structure 2. Manmade structure. Both have unlimited possibilities for variance. He asked a valid question, at least one could provide a valid response w/o digressing into the minutia of who defined the terms we use today in the fishing world. Understanding how & when fish relate to them is the real trick..
Breaklines in the classic sense are natural structure, some are fixed, others appear & disappear.
Good luck down at the Cave!
Have fun!
Al
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Any body of water one is learning/already knows needs to broken down in the mind 'less the water'. Seeing the water below the boat in the mind's eye as a three D image will dramatically improve one's understanding of how and why the fish move throughout the water column and utilize the 'structure' seasonally and daily. Think deer hunting. The only real difference is one can walk right up to and look at the 'structure' deer use daily.
When fishing a weedline, for example, I 'see' it as one would see a hedgerow in a field. Reading the water based upon what the sonar, my memory, and lots of experience as to the variables, puts me where the boat needs to be. Some places I need a GPS, but most not after fishing them enough, similar to my truck GPS. |
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| This is such an easy question in Chautauqua Lake which is literally a Musky factory. Just find the schools of yellow perch. Doesn't matter if the depth is 5' or 50' weeds or open water.
It's basically find the bait schools (which in this lake is millions of perch) and find the Musky's.
Edited by NPike 3/14/2016 5:47 PM
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| sworrall - 2/18/2016 8:59 AM
The structures Muskies like the best have food available.
x2 on that |
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What structures do Muskie like best?