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Posts: 114
| I know its not musky related, but couldn't believe this.
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/10/14/wis-judge-allows-chippewa-... |
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Posts: 52
| Hey lots of poachers take their deer that way ..... way to go cheeze land judge !!
Edited by TonyT65 10/15/2015 11:00 AM
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| First, Crabb is a federal judge, not state. Second, the reason this was allowed after being turned down before was because the WI DNR when first setting regulations for wolf hunting, allowed night hunting for wolves. This was reversed eventually but the DNR under our clueless secretary, Stepp, set the precedent by allowing it. Judge Crabb in an earlier case a few years ago denied night hunting for the tribes, but the DNR's okaying it for wolf hunting opened the door and the judge changed her ruling accordingly.
Some time ago a retired DNR employee told me this would happen. He said the agency today is not being run by scientists and natural resource professionals but by politicians. And not very competent politicians at that. |
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Posts: 32892
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'A federal judge has ruled Chippewa tribes can hunt deer at night beginning next month across most of northern Wisconsin'
'U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb issued an order Tuesday'
Same judge who ruled on many of the treaty rights ceded territory issues. Federal. |
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Posts: 574
Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | This will only strain relations up north! Not a good thing. |
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Location: Smith Creek | A little less sleep for the wardens. |
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Posts: 116
| Flambeauski - 10/15/2015 11:39 AM
A little less sleep for the wardens.
I have not seen a warden in the "northwoods" in 20 years. |
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Posts: 400
Location: Metro | Headlock - 10/15/2015 1:00 PM
Flambeauski - 10/15/2015 11:39 AM
A little less sleep for the wardens.
I have not seen a warden in the "northwoods" in 20 years.
So you're saying they are just none existent? lol. |
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Posts: 32892
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | They are too few in numbers, under payed and overworked, and unloved. I should'a been a warden, at least then I would have a gun and look far more threatening. |
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Posts: 400
Location: Metro | I understand what he was trying to say but if there are less Wardens it is going to be even LESS sleep for those few individuals. I'm being too analytical, got the musky jitters at work right now. |
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Posts: 116
| sworrall - 10/15/2015 1:35 PM
They are too few in numbers, under payed and overworked, and unloved. I should'a been a warden, at least then I would have a gun and look far more threatening.
That is fact. |
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| Well, the warden here in Oneida county seems like a good guy and is hardworking. In the first 45 plus years I have had to have a fishing license, I was checked a grand total of one time on the water. So far this year I have been checked twice, once on the ice and the second time musky fishing, plus I ran into him at the boat landing on a third occasion.
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Posts: 32
Location: Centeral Wisco | If they want night hunting then they should have to close a casino |
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Location: oswego, il | Pardon some of my ignorance here. Expanding to ceded territory there is private property correct? If so what permissions are granted? Will there be limits on the amount of deer taken? Did not see this in the article. |
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Location: central Wisconsin | I am wondering if it is shotgun only. I cannot believe rifles would be allowed. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | won't be as easy for them to go nocturnal during the gun season this way ... |
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Location: central Wisconsin | Good article on JS online |
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| ToddM - 10/15/2015 7:27 PM
Pardon some of my ignorance here. Expanding to ceded territory there is private property correct? If so what permissions are granted? Will there be limits on the amount of deer taken? Did not see this in the article.
They talked about this on NPR for a little while yesterday and made it sound like it will be a heavily-regulated thing. Hunters must first take a safety course AND pass a test on the rifle range, to name a couple specifics. |
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Posts: 574
Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Not much time to take the safety course if this is opening up on November 1st. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | So they pull out their high powered spotlight and shine the deer, then blast away. I guess the judge has never heard of the concept of fair chase. Pretty disturbing, but like the treaties there's nothing you can do about it.
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Posts: 51
| I see this matter somewhat differently than the previous post, as I believe there is something that can be done about it. I think about issues such as spearing and night-time hunting for deer every time that I drive by a casino. I just drive right by without stopping. I know many other outdoorsmen that do the same thing. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Which will be completely ineffective, unfortunately. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | last winter i drove around my neighborhood at night with a spotlight for about 5 hours helping to look for a neighbors dog that was lost. with a rifle in hand i could have fed the whole town for a month. the don't move off of beds with spotlights and don't even get startled. granted this herd is a bit on the tame side but i would imagine by this experience that night hunting will be pretty productive.
maybe we could get the same judge (in chicago, right?) to open feral cat and feral human hunting on the streets of Chicago at night? |
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Location: Smith Creek | The way it's written it doesn't look like road hunting is an option. Guess we'll see. |
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Posts: 102
| Road hunting is definitely legal for this hunt. Read the FAQ, answers a lot of questions people have. I can't believe they can put out a corn pile, use thermal imaging and infared for locating them, then flip on a 1 million candle power spotlight, put their high caliber rifle on the edge of the window from the driver's seat of their truck, and shoot them. Yup, just like their ancestors did it. AND, the justification is for sustenance. Just shows you that non-native americans are superior hunters compared to native americans, as we get it done during daylight and we can't shoot from our vehicle...we actually have to walk out there. Disgusting.
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/tribalFAQ.pdf |
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| While I don't like the ruling and regret that the incompetence of the WI DNR management made it possible, I don't think non-native hunters can feel all that superior. It isn't native hunters that pay big bucks to outfitters in northern WI for bear hunts where the outfitter hauls gummy bears and other sweets/breads into the woods for months ahead of the hunt. Shooting a bear with his head inside a blue barrel filled with stale gummy bears doesn't seem a whole lot more sporting than shooting a deer with a spot light. |
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Location: oswego, il | Our gun laws.were written when we had muskets so the ancestry argument is mute.
As I read it, you have to have a mound to be shooting at. Which most likely means a fairly fixed location. Can they bait? My only concerns would be impact of numbers, unless there is some sort of quota. |
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| Mute/moot... their you go... or is it they're? |
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| ToddM - 10/16/2015 1:06 PM
My only concerns would be impact of numbers, unless there is some sort of quota.
Exactly. I really hate the thought of shining and gunning deer as much as the next guy, but if it doesn't change their harvest numbers, what's the difference?
All arguments of what is "sporting" and/or "ethical" are so relative and emotion-based that they don't hold any water.
If they can safely harvest deer at night and maintain the herd, then whatever, have at it. Personally, I don't feel it's safe, or easy to regulate, but I strongly believe personal preferences shouldn't play a role.
Also, totally agree that the DNR screwed up by allowing night-hunting for wolves. Came back to haunt them. |
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Location: Stevens Point, Wi. | I think the biggest concern with this ruling is going to be all the extra wasted time spent by DNR wardens responding to the night shooting. Is it a legal or illegal shooter? I'll bet their phones will be busy.
I'm sure the poachers are licking their chops with this new opportunity. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | I'm out in the national forest tonight and I'm hearing more than a few rifle shots.
No clue who is doing it, but poachers are going to poach regardless of their ethnic background. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Crazy. It's REALLY not worth taking a chance to poach a deer. Really expensive if you get caught. |
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| I am more worried about losing sleep and/or a bullet through my window than anything else. |
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Posts: 337
Location: Watersmeet, Michigan | If this follows the pattern of what's happened with fishing, things are going to get out of hand quickly. The few regulations that do exist are not enforced, and in the rare instance that they are, the violators are brought to tribal court where fines seldom exceed $100
In a very short time the Wisconsin Chippewa will move into Minnesota and Michigan as the deer herd is depleted. Right now, after severely damaging Wisconsin fisheries, they've begun encroaching on Ojibway waters here in the U.P. After just one season, Keweenaw Bay, our finest lake trout and salmon fishery, has become the Dead Sea.
What's worse, with this deer hunt we're talking about people running around at night shooting rifles, not spearing fish and setting gill nets. I believe people will be killed before this is done.
BTW, my grandmother was a Menominee Indian and our family has always opposed these special priviliges which now extend hunting and fishing beyond the sustenance harvest allowed by the treaties. Like a pestilence they take, destroy, and never give back.
Fr. K
Edited by Yooper Padre 10/18/2015 5:44 AM
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Posts: 859
Location: MN | First I think shooting at night is a safety issue first and foremost. I would hope this would be limited to reservation land. I just don't know how many natives really harvest to be honest. It's payback for the wolf hunting if you ask me. If MN had kept the numbers in check or heaven forbid not gone along with this reintroduction I'm not sure this or some of the big spearing takes place. On the topic of wardens Steve is right these guys are just trying to protect a resource which is a thankless job. Give the guys and gals a break. I have seen 3 in 25 years. Twice in MI fight to gave native nets moved from the water due to a lack of something. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Yooper Padre - 10/18/2015 5:40 AM
If this follows the pattern of what's happened with fishing, things are going to get out of hand quickly. The few regulations that do exist are not enforced, and in the rare instance that they are, the violators are brought to tribal court where fines seldom exceed $100
In a very short time the Wisconsin Chippewa will move into Minnesota and Michigan as the deer herd is depleted. Right now, after severely damaging Wisconsin fisheries, they've begun encroaching on Ojibway waters here in the U.P. After just one season, Keweenaw Bay, our finest lake trout and salmon fishery, has become the Dead Sea.
What's worse, with this deer hunt we're talking about people running around at night shooting rifles, not spearing fish and setting gill nets. I believe people will be killed before this is done.
BTW, my grandmother was a Menominee Indian and our family has always opposed these special privileges which now extend hunting and fishing beyond the sustenance harvest allowed by the treaties. Like a pestilence they take, destroy, and never give back.
Fr. K
Look into GLIFWC. The last statement needs a little adjustment. My son worked for many years doing creel and other conservation work under GLIFWC money, and also cooperated with GLIFWC stocking efforts, which he tells me were not insignificant. The regulations are not 'few' by the way.
This is from the GLIFWC website:
Judge Crabb gives a go-ahead for a treaty night hunt in Wisconsin
On October 13 Judge Barbara Crabb issued an order in favor of a highly regulated night hunting opportunity for treaty hunters in Wisconsin’s ceded territory.
GLIFWC and its member tribes welcome the night hunt as an additional opportunity for members to put meat on the table. However, the hunt also has strict requirements, including, but not limited to, taking an advanced hunter safety course, passing a marksmanship test at night, and completing a detailed site plan.
Dates and locations for taking the safety course and the marksmanship test will soon be posted at tribal registration stations. Regulations also will be available within the next few days on GLIFWC’s website. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | esoxaddict - 10/17/2015 10:20 PM
I am more worried about losing sleep and/or a bullet through my window than anything else.
Amen brother. I consider wearing blaze orange on my own land during gun season, but blaze orange pajamas aren't going to help at night. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | True that... |
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Location: Watersmeet, Michigan | sworrall - 10/18/2015 9:50 AM
Look into GLIFWC. The last statement needs a little adjustment. My son worked for many years doing creel and other conservation work under GLIFWC money, and also cooperated with GLIFWC stocking efforts, which he tells me were not insignificant. The regulations are not 'few' by the way.
I have to differ with you on this one, Steve. If you check the MI DNR Stocking Database, http://www.michigandnr.com/fishstock/ you'll see that in Baraga County, where Keweenaw Bay is located, there was absolutely no tribal stocking the last three years.During the same time-frame there was no tribal stocking in adjoining Houghton County, where most tribal walleye harvesting occurs. Although harvest limits exist, all too often they are not enforced. Take out limit at point A, then take out limit at point B, then on to point C....
I'll be very glad if time proves me wrong, but I really think this night hunt will have some disastrous effects. If that happens, the "walleye wars" of the 1970s, 80s and 90s will seem peaceful in comparison.
Fr. K
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Doubt it on the violence, that wasn't an answer in the 80's and won't be now.
Keith was a fish tech in Woodruff WI for 13 years, not sure how the MIDNR works with the Tribes. |
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| I lived in the UP for almost 20 years and saw the Keweenaw Bay tribe develop the first casino and start to push for native fishing and hunting rights. I hired a tribal council member as a management trainee. To compare the Keweenaw Bay tribe's impact on the fishery to that of the WI tribes, in particular the Lac du Flambeau, is apples to cucumbers comparison.
The Keweenaw Bay tribe is dysfunctional, with inter tribe squabbling being taken to the extreme, including at one time the new tribal leadership dis-enrolling a large part of the tribal rolls, including a former chair person. When their former chairman was in federal court for a variety of corruption charges, the tribe used Head Start buses to transport tribal supporters. He was convicted, imprisoned and still got re-elected when he got out. Sadly, it is unlikely they will ever get their act together.
On the other hand, the tribal hatcheries in WI are playing a big role in the DNR's efforts to restore walleye fishing here in northern WI. It is my understanding that most of the larger fingerlings stocked in the lake I live on two years ago came from tribal hatcheries.
I am not saying there are no issues with WI tribes and natural resources, just pointing out that the Keweenaw Bay Tribe is a poor comparison. |
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Location: North Central IL USA | ARmuskyaddict - 10/16/2015 1:09 PM
Mute/moot... their you go... or is it they're?
It's 'there'.  |
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Posts: 238
Location: Rhinelander | The local WI tribes stock zero (0) muskie, but spear an enormous amount through the ice.
They do raise and stock walleye, but please research who pays for the walleye fingerlings. "Only sportsman tax dollars goes to fund fish hatcheries to replace depleted stock due to spearing."
http://dnr.wi.gov/news/weekly/article/?id=2875
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_Walleye_War |
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| Not disputing that the tribal hatcheries are paid for the fingerlings, same as the other private hatcheries. But, they have made the investment in the hatcheries and hired scientists, an investment made before the walleye initiative was funded. |
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Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Any updates on this? Just wondering how it is going and if anyone has seen them out there at night. |
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Location: central Wisconsin | On the news about a week ago it was reported that one doe was killed on opening night. I've not heard anything since. |
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Location: The desert | Jeff78 - 11/9/2015 6:37 PM
On the news about a week ago it was reported that one doe was killed on opening night. I've not heard anything since.
The end of the world is nigh.... |
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Posts: 32892
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin |
Keith worked on many projects that would not have happened at all without GLIFWC funding. All his Winter creeling work as well.
Define 'an enormous amount'. I'd wager more harvest still happens during hook and line season state wide than what happens from Winter spearing as far as overall numbers. It's just a disturbing and unregulated portion of the treaty rights TAC, and offends people easily. And, the stupidity we all witnessed a couple years back fueled more spearing activity...because they could, and flipped off the 'activists' in the process on Social Media. That was a net loss for muskie anglers all the way.
The structure of the Ceded Territories fisheries management is already pretty much set in stone; it's been three decades. It's easy to improve populations with increased budget $$ if the State wants it, witness the walleye recovery program on the Minocqua/Tomahawk chain. Money talks, and our DNR has been pretty much broke for a number of years.
Whining from either side about the treaties or the tribes exercising the treaty rights guaranteed them or not being allowed to in the case of timber rights, etc. won't change a thing, they are what they are and no amount of racism from either side will improve the cooperation between the tribes and the State. A lack of racism from both, on the other hand, coupled with cooperative economic growth programs....just might. It sure has on the Minocqua/Tomahawk chain walleye recovery program. |
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Anyone one else see this