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Posts: 78
| Hey guys,
New poster here that is primarily a Salt guy but I know this is a topic of interest here and my friends at Abu Garcia thought you might like a look at the new Revo Toro Beast.
The post has a lot of images of the new reel and technical discussion of the new features Abu has designed and was posted here under Outdoors First Media:
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/articles/08.18.2015/8905/Photo.Abu....
This thread will provide a convenient place for any questions you might have that I will do my best to answer. If I cannot then maybe Steve Worrall can chime in or we can submit questions directly to Abu Garcia to answer them for us.
Let me know what you think and lets get the discussion started!
best
ps. Below are some photos of the Toro S (white) and Toro Beast (blk).
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Posts: 348
| How well will this reel handle big blades?Is it similar to the winch |
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Posts: 859
Location: MN | X2 how does reel do pulling 10's |
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Posts: 78
| Got this detailed question via PM and thought it was best to share with this thread:
"Hi John
Very Nice Write up.
These look like great reels and the fact that they come in left hand has me very interested. (I want to purchase one for my son as soon as I can). Several of us very specifically would like to know which reel ( the Toro Beast or the S) will compare to the Shimano Tranx PG in that it will offer great speed and enough power to accomplish the speed for throwing (burning) Double 10s. I personally have a Tranx PG and it works great, however it is a pain to use as it is so big. If these reels work and are smaller I will HAPPILY replace it.
Between the Revo Toro Beast, the S, and the size (51 & 61) we have 6 inch per turn combinations to pick from. The Tranx PG has 30 IPT so to me we are down to 3 of the combinations that may work, the other combinations are too slow.
The Revo T2 BST51 = 31 IPT
The Revo T2 BTS61 = 34 IPT
These two each have the proper amount of IPT but are both in a HS gear at 6.2:1 so the question is will they have the power to specifically bring in (burn) a double 10? Kind of like the Tranx HG is very fast with 40 IPT but it now doesn't have the power to do it effectively.
Also does the 51 come with all three handles?
The Revo T2 S61 has 29 IPT which isn't bad and has a 5.3:1 gear so is it a safe assumption the S model will crank with less effort than the Beast making it easier to burn a double 10?
I fully understand how gears work, (lower ratios have more power but less speed - like a bike in first gear will go up hill easily but not fast and higher ratios can go fast but not up hill). But only if we are comparing apples to apples. If you put physically larger gears (gears and pinion) into the scenario but don't change your load, then you are not comparing apples to apples.
There have been some very nice posts on M1 with lots of information but it has not been answered which reel (type (beast or S), size 50 or 60, and gearing will do the best job at burning a double 10.
Several people asked how these reels perform to the Tranx PG as the fact is that is the current bench mark when it comes to throwing (burning) double 10s
My personal choice would be the Revo T2 BST50 in (6.2 gearing at 31 IPT) if it has the power that is needed and if it comes with all three handles. However it appears the Revo T2 S 60 may work better, but it doesn't have many of the nice features of the Beast.
If you can answer my question that would be great and if you can post something for everyone to see that would be even better.
Thanks for your time.
Brad"
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Posts: 78
| So, some answers to the above the best that I am able:
This is not easily answered as there are many variables that are gonna affect which reel is ideal for the individual guy as the geometry/ergonomics/physics of each reel is a tiny bit different.
As Brad rightly pointed out physical size of gears matters, but relatively less as compared to gear ratio, spool size and handle length. They all have to work together to make "cranking power" but they generally work against the effort required for "cranking speed". If you get one, you don't get the other ie the longer handle has more cranking power but is more energy intensive to move fast etc
The knock on the Tranx has always been it's size, well, that is going to produce a lot of cranking power for a number of reasons but of course, make it really far larger than needed for freshwater and less comfortable to fish.
What Abu Garcia has done is give you every option possible for Double 10's in a more manageable size. Truly palm-able as compared to the Tranx.
But, there is no simple answer for every guy and it is only going to be solved with hours and hours on the water with different reels and handles until broad consensus emerges for the "average guy"...And I bet many will still have a small change of "this handle, with that gear ratio and this exact spool size" that is the sweet spot for their fitness level.
The Toro S comes with only one handle. The 50 size comes with the 105mm paddle. The 60 size comes with a "power casting handle" which is a balanced 105mm handle with a larger knob and the Toro Beast is the only one that comes with all three (the last one is by far the longest).
I have a Toro S coming in the next few days and I have all 3 handles. Between that and the Toro Beast I have I should come up with some more clear impressions very shortly.
The Toro S has 26" and 29" IPT respectively (50/60) to complete the picture. The final best reel may be a case of a little less IPT made up for with effort saved cranking the reel or more IPT at the cost of more effort etc. but we are still figuring that out. Very few people have had the chance to compare them side by side.
best |
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Posts: 2097
| It may be just me, but the reel I think would be closer compared to the tranx pg and something I may purchase for 10's is the Toro S with a price point $150 lower than the beast. |
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Posts: 1749
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | Will you do the same style write up and disassembly for the S reel? |
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Posts: 78
| Clarification. The Revo Toro S (50) comes with just the twin paddle paddle handle seen in the photo review. The Revo Toro Beast 50/51 does come with all three handles as shown.
Fed-ex just dropped off the Toro S (60) and I spooled it up :).
I will start taking images of all the guts and (hopefully) can post them in this thread or I will direct towards where they can be found. It will be a shorter set of photos hopefully :).
I will add right off that the Toro S is even better looking than expected. The White is more a "metallic pearl" finish and is very attractive but business like.
best |
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Posts: 251
| It looks like the reel bodies for the S and beast are the exact same for each 50 and 60 sized reels, is this true?
Are all the main drive gears in each the beast 50, 60 (and gear ratios) and S all the same size? If so does this mean the gearing/machining of the teeth are the difference in the gear ratios? If this is the case, would you just be able to swap out the pinion gear and drive gear to convert a HS to LS or even put a Beast gear ratio on a S model ? (This is the case with the Calcutta 300D and 400D; I was able to swap out the gears and get a 400D with slightly more line pick-up).
More importantly, castability. How does the Beast or S with a disengaging levelwind fair in casting compared to the the NaCL? I am most concerned with the 2.5-3.5 oz baits with a lot of wind drag (IE - double ten bucktails). Would say much better, better, about the same or worse?
My thoughts: I am leaning toward the Toro Beast 60 4.9:1 with the hopes that it will be my new double 10 reel. I use the NaCl 60 low speed currently and I can bulge dadson 9's or most 10's all day with it. It would be great if I could buy a set of the HS gears and change them out depending on a certain trip etc. without buying a whole new reel. I see the Beast as being an overall upgrade from the NaCl with a smaller body, lower gearing, slightly increased line-pick up, longer handle, and easier to depress thumb bar. I am buying into the hype. |
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Posts: 2097
| The Toro beast 4:9:1 picks up 27 IPT compared to the NaCL 5:4:1 with 26 IPT, compared to the Toro S which is 29 IPT. I am interested to hear others talk about it when they purchase them after labor day. I am in the market for a tranx PG but would like to use something smaller. |
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Posts: 78
| timhutson1 - 8/19/2015 1:34 PM
It looks like the reel bodies for the S and beast are the exact same for each 50 and 60 sized reels, is this true?
Are all the main drive gears in each the beast 50, 60 (and gear ratios) and S all the same size? If so does this mean the gearing/machining of the teeth are the difference in the gear ratios? If this is the case, would you just be able to swap out the pinion gear and drive gear to convert a HS to LS or even put a Beast gear ratio on a S model ? (This is the case with the Calcutta 300D and 400D; I was able to swap out the gears and get a 400D with slightly more line pick-up).
More importantly, castability. How does the Beast or S with a disengaging levelwind fair in casting compared to the the NaCL? I am most concerned with the 2.5-3.5 oz baits with a lot of wind drag (IE - double ten bucktails). Would say much better, better, about the same or worse?
My thoughts: I am leaning toward the Toro Beast 60 4.9:1 with the hopes that it will be my new double 10 reel. I use the NaCl 60 low speed currently and I can bulge dadson 9's or most 10's all day with it. It would be great if I could buy a set of the HS gears and change them out depending on a certain trip etc. without buying a whole new reel. I see the Beast as being an overall upgrade from the NaCl with a smaller body, lower gearing, slightly increased line-pick up, longer handle, and easier to depress thumb bar. I am buying into the hype.
1. I am not certain the bodies are identical (both of my reels are 60 size) or that the gears are swapable but I put the question to my contacts at Abu and hopefully they will answer shortly.
2. The casting is in fact superior to the NaCl 60 as you do not have the friction of the LW mechanism cycling back and forth that saps energy from distance. This is verified by my own experience. Abu says they got about 10% better performance on average by going to a narrow geometry and eliminating a synced LW. Being narrow that the LW mechanism is not always perfectly synced with the spool is not an issue with a heavy fish (ie no binding).
3. The Toro Beast/S are clear upgrades over the already fine Toro NaCl which is now discontinued. The new more narrow reels will have less "wobble" when fighting heavy fish and when fishing big baits. This is a real energy saver in both cases.
best |
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Posts: 78
| Mornin' guys. An answer from Abu about the interchangeability of gears:
"Yes the gear sets in the 50 and 60 are the same. The gear sets are also interchangeable between S and the Beast. We will offer this as a service to change the gear sets in spirit lake, for a new gear set. Consumers will also be able to change them out themselves if they feel confident they can do it."
The bodies of the 50 and 60 sizes are not precisely the same size (the body height is grown in the 60 to accommodate a taller spool) but this does not affect the interchangeability of the gears.
regards
ps: Below are images from the Toro S
1. Main gear with stack removed
2. General layout with traditional drag stack (Power Stack) but without the Active Response Drag that the Toro Beast has.
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Posts: 251
| Thank you, I am happy to get such a clear answer on that. |
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Posts: 1000
| can we get a pic of the nacl, toro s, and beast mounted on rods next to each other? The NaCl didn't fit right in my hand. This new reel looks closer in dimensions to a lexa 400, which is perfect. I just want Abu quality. |
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Posts: 78
| This is what I have already. If this is not clear enough let me know and I'll take some shots tomorrow when the light is better with the NaCl on a rod too:
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| Are the S and Beast the same size? The appears bigger in the pics. Thanks |
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Posts: 78
| The Toro S and Toro Beast are the same size for their respective 50/60 counterparts. The wide angle of the lens makes the S look a bit bigger in the picture shown. Plus my wife tells me that Black is slimming  .
The paddle and the balanced "power handle" are 105mm rivet to rivet.
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Posts: 750
Location: Minneapolis, MN | As I'm still waiting for a response, would you mind asking your Abu contacts if they will let us exchange the handles on the S? I was disappointed to learn they were only shipping the reels with one handle and that we couldn't choose the handle we wanted. |
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Posts: 2097
| Where can you pre order the Abu's? Are they like phones and may come a few days earlier than the release date? And is it available in stores 9/9? |
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Posts: 991
| I have a question regarding the rods...they went with a similar 2 piece design as the St. Croix 9'0 premiers and those premiers are considerably heavier than other 9'0 rods. Are the 2 piece abu rods heavier in weight? |
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Posts: 78
| Via PM:
"Hi John
Thanks so much for the deep dive into these reels and providing all the specific answers to everyone (I love that). Maybe it is me but I get really impatient when I can't get information about something I am interested in, so Thanks so much.
So we can swap the gears on Toro Beast and the S, that is great news. I have done that on several older Revos and I never found it very hard and it typically cost about $50 for the gears. So with that said back to my original question a few days ago as to which on will burn double tens, for me that is not a huge concern anymore as we can change the gears. So that brings up another question.........Which reel is tougher and is the extra $150 worth it for the Beast or is the S an acceptable high quality reel, as I see it has 3 less bearings? Do you know roughly how much a set of gear will cost?
Or does the Beast have some bells and whistles that a guy may never need or use?
Right now I am thinking on getting the T2 S 60 and if it isn't fast enough I would up grade to the faster gears..But I don't want to be cheap either so what would your recommendation be?
I am a semi retired (16 more months and done) and a serious muskie fishermen and the fish are on fire right now with the higher water temps but first few cold fronts coming in. I use a Tranx PG to burn 10s but every morning now I wake up with sore fingers/hands. I sure hope these reels work better than that brut. But it does work as in Bring 10s in fast (but it is just too big), I have boated 15 muskies in the past 3 weeks with 2 over 50 all burning 10s. I have had other people in the boat and they have boated a total of one as they are not able to burn the bait.
If you are ever in NE Wisconsin track me down and I will take you out.
Again thanks for your help it looks like we are getting close to our answer.
PS: If I had these reels in my hands I would give them a test with 10s and get the guys the answer they are looking for. I look forward to your response and have a good day."
So in this post I will highlight the differences between the Toro S and the Toro Beast for clarity and try to answer some of the above:
1. The Toro S uses a Zirconia Line Guide, the Toro Beast is Titanium Nitride
2. The Worm on the Toro S is chrome plated brass, the Toro Beast is Titanium Nitride over brass.
3. Under the Brake Knob the Toro S uses a bushing, the Toro Beast has a bearing and the complete clicker assembly.
4. The Palm Side Plate is identical in both reels (I even put the Toro S plate on the Toro Beast to check and it worked perfectly).
5. The Worm Shaft in the Toro S rides on bushings, in the Toro Beast it rides on bearings (no affect on casting).
6. The drag system in the Toro S is the traditional mechanism with the new Power Stack, the Toro Beast has the innovations seen in the posted article, the Power Stack with Active Response Drag.
7. The Toro S comes with one handle, paddle or power knob in the 50/60 respectively, the Toro Beast comes with all three.
8. The Toro S will come with a brass Main Gear Shaft (though my pre-production reel seems to be SS).
9. The Toro Beast uses the fully disengaging Spool from the Pinion (Infinii Spool), the Toro S uses a traditional spindle that runs through the Pinion to a bushing.
10. The Toro S uses just the externally adjustable Mag cast control, the Toro Beast has that plus centrifugal brakes.
So, are these differences worth the additional $150 at retail between the reels? Yes and no :). The biggest difference is going to be the drag system and the extra handles. But all of these are of the "nice but not required to go fishing" sort of refinements. I for one am very excited about the drag changes, but that is also because I will push the reel to it's max offshore on Tuna, Jacks and Dorado...I will also fish the reel over smaller models ie on Calico Bass, paddy rats and rockfish etc and can use more than one handle for sure for these smaller species and smaller lures. All of these refinements or exras add up in that case and cutting to the chase and going with a Toro Beast works for me.
For the average guy the Toro S is directly comparable to other reels at that price (Curado, Komodo and Lexa) with Abu's superior fit and finish (imo). However, if any of the features of the Toro Beast appeal you can get them all at once with one stop shopping. However, if you decide on a Toro S you can fully upgrade it in the future to Beast Mode  by dropping in whatever parts you choose from the Toro Beast's part list with full compatibility as long as you get all needed parts. I really like that ability to upgrade in the future.
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Posts: 78
| dami0101 - 8/21/2015 5:09 AM
As I'm still waiting for a response, would you mind asking your Abu contacts if they will let us exchange the handles on the S? I was disappointed to learn they were only shipping the reels with one handle and that we couldn't choose the handle we wanted.
Abu has answered and unfortunately it is a no go. The problems with accepting the returns and then being able to resell the handle as "new stock" is problematic for other consumers down the road.
I'm sure you can imagine the customer service nightmare when someone inevitably ends up with a tried out and then rejected handle that someone sent back to swap saying they never used it etc.
Pricing on the handles and gear sets for swapping has not been set yet. |
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Posts: 78
| Ronix - 8/21/2015 10:58 AM
I have a question regarding the rods...they went with a similar 2 piece design as the St. Croix 9'0 premiers and those premiers are considerably heavier than other 9'0 rods. Are the 2 piece abu rods heavier in weight?
I am not yet fully up to speed on all the specs on the Fantasista Beast but will say the FB88-7 I have is listed as 12.3 oz and rated to huck 4-10oz lures.
There are even heavier models rated to cast 6-16oz in the line....What I presume is that these rods rated to cast extremely heavy baits have the strength to do it with the necessary beefing up of the ferrule. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Looking forward to these reels coming out and hearing some more reports from the field on them.
John, are you able to say if the non balanced handle of the Toro Beast is the same length of the current Revo Toro 60 Power handle? I'm wondering if it's the same, non balanced handle, or if it's different.
If they are the same length, I'm thinking the 34" reel with that power handle on the longest setting might be a nice combination. Also, will a handle from a current Toro 60 fit the new Toro Beast or S? It looks like they might be different.
Thanks much for your detailed help and reviews.
Tucker |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | John, it almost looks from your pics that they made the cap for the line guide pawl a bit more accessible. Or is that an optical illusion? The line guide pawl being a typically common high wear part you would think reel companies would make it much more accessible to change them out than they do, without having to take the whole reel apart just to do so. |
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Posts: 239
Location: Madison, WI | The S jumped to the top of my "reels to buy" list when I read Sworral's post on this recently that said "Hard to describe, but this one shines pretty brightly over all the other reels I have used over the 51 years I've owned a bait-caster. " regarding the revo toro S. |
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Posts: 78
| curleytail - 8/27/2015 7:33 AM
Looking forward to these reels coming out and hearing some more reports from the field on them.
John, are you able to say if the non balanced handle of the Toro Beast is the same length of the current Revo Toro 60 Power handle? I'm wondering if it's the same, non balanced handle, or if it's different.
If they are the same length, I'm thinking the 34" reel with that power handle on the longest setting might be a nice combination. Also, will a handle from a current Toro 60 fit the new Toro Beast or S? It looks like they might be different.
Thanks much for your detailed help and reviews.
Tucker
Hey Tucker,
The non-balanced power handle of the Toro Beast is significantly longer than the Toro NaCl 60. They measure 90 and 70mm, respectively. The engineers really intended this extra long version to be a "jigging" handle rather than a casting one but it works fine for me casting.
The handles are not interchangeable on the reels. The shafts are different with the Toro Beast/S being more square than the rectangular one on the Toro NaCl.
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Posts: 78
| Propster - 8/27/2015 7:59 AM
John, it almost looks from your pics that they made the cap for the line guide pawl a bit more accessible. Or is that an optical illusion? The line guide pawl being a typically common high wear part you would think reel companies would make it much more accessible to change them out than they do, without having to take the whole reel apart just to do so.
Absolutely right. There is no guard in place that has to be removed first. It is right there for easy service.
The last image is a good look at the different geometry of the Toro Beast/S versus the older Toro NaCl 60. It still palms easily but has a much more narrow and tall layout although the wide angle lense makes the NaCl seem a little wider yet than it is.
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Posts: 78
| johnsonaaro2 - 8/27/2015 12:51 PM
The S jumped to the top of my "reels to buy" list when I read Sworral's post on this recently that said "Hard to describe, but this one shines pretty brightly over all the other reels I have used over the 51 years I've owned a bait-caster. " regarding the revo toro S.
What Abu Garcia has done is perfect the ergonomics of the reel. A Toro S uses nothing particularly unique other than the Power Stack for what should be the smoothest drag in this class. Most of the rest is just Abu Garcia quality and detailing...
But the shape of the reel is what is so different and what has been much more perfected as compared to prior generations.
Generally speaking in the past reel makers have gone to wider frames rather than taller to grow capacity. This makes perfect sense as so many parts remain identical as you go wider (other than the frame and spool) and, in general, wider reels with no levelwinds are better casters (you get more line off per rotation of the spool as it does not decrease in height so fast during a cast).
But when you introduce a level wind and braid wider is not as good as it used to be....Previously you had to "sync" the levelwind when casting to keep friction from the line guide to a minimum as the angle coming off the spool increased. Well, this produces a diminishing return as you have to cycle that LW too as the cast goes out...this causes a loss of distance from friction from the mechanism. Thinner braid also decreases the spool height less than mono during a cast, so the last advantage of a wide spool really is meaningless fishing braid.
As well, wide reels cause "wobble" when retrieving lures or fighting fish with higher drag. A more narrow reel is more powerful and less fatiguing as you don't have to fight that wobble. It also allows a growing of the main gear size (more room for a drag stack and more strength for harder cranking).
So, by going more narrow and tall Abu has perfected the ergonomics of the reel for less effort casting all day, especially for big baits, and for fighting heavy fish.
It also turns out the more narrow reel is a better caster because you can neglect having to sync the LW mechanism. It simply is not needed when you stretch the distance between the spool and line guide reducing the most acute angle, particularly with slick and thin braid.
And the taller spool moves more line per revolution for casting and retrieving etc. More bonuses for a taller spool (to a point) that is balanced by longer handles.
All in all it appears to be the complete package....pending months of use by hundreds of guys on the water, so there is always that caveat...But the Toro Beast/S is not surpassed in this size reel as compared to any in the world comparing feature to feature and ergonomics, imo.
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Thanks John. I think I'm happy that the non balanced handle is longer. That should give some super leverage on the high speed reel, and I think as long as the reel hold up to high resistance baits, it will be plenty powerful with the long handle.
Non balanced handle doesn't bother me. I'm so used to casting with the handle down or back to avoid engaging on the cast I don't think about it anymore. Might have to add a Toro Beast to my inventory by next year. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Seems like I read this somewhere, but can't find it now.
Have there been any changes to the gearing or other factors in the Toro S and Beast series (from the Revo Toro NACL's) in regards to durability with hard pulling baits?
Most of us have probably experienced a reel that is used for double 10's getting rougher and rougher over time till they start to sound and feel like a coffee grinder from continued use of hard pulling baits. Higher gear ratio reels are sometimes worse with this than lower gear ratios.
I don't own one, but from what I understand, the huge gears in the Tranx offer a lot of durability. Most guys seem to be buying them for use with hard pulling baits, and there are very few reports of durability issues.
Has Abu Garcia increased the gear sizes, or taken other steps to increase the durability? Is the common thought that the high speed Toro Beast will stand up to hard cranking with large double bladed bucktails with no durability problems?
Has anybody received a Toro Beast or S yet, or have one on order?
Tucker |
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Posts: 1749
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | I got 3 of them in the mail today. I will have one apart this weekend next to a NaCl to show the difference in the gears. |
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Posts: 1416
Location: oconomowoc, wi | bought an S today at smokies on pewaukee.. they had a dozen new beasts there as well. |
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Posts: 251
| Throw some double 10's and give us a report. I would be really interested in an assessment of each gear ratio with the 10's if you have both versions. |
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Posts: 2097
| I am holding off on purchasing a toro beast hs. I feel like it's going to take a lot of effort to pull 10's and only getting around 34" IPC. I don't want to buy the low geared one and effortlessly crank 10's in only getting 26 or 27 IPC either. The toro s seems like a happy medium between the 2 beast for a lot less. |
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Posts: 410
Location: With my son on the water | I would agree, it is hard to determine right now which reel to go with for throwing 10s and one would have to think Abu Garcia came out with these reels to specifically compete with the Tranx which like it or not has become the bench mark for throwing 10s.
The Tranx PG seems to be the most popular for 10s and for you guys using the HG, wow, I will not mess with you.......
I personally use the Tranx PG and will admit it is big and a bear to use, however the more I use it the better I seem too do with it to the point I am using it 95% of the time and no nothing compares to it.
The PG brings in 30 IPT, the Revo S brings in 29 IPT so it is very close and at $250 not bad. However the HS BEAST brings in 34 IPT, comes with 3 handles, 3 more bearings (which isn't a big deal) but also has a better drag and both magnetic and centrifugal casting control, and a few other improvements that may not matter much. The S only has the magnetic casting control and casting 10s into the wind can be an issue with some reels?
It is great that both reels are offered in left handed models which my son needs. I am really on the fence?? If I get him the S, the IPT should be good but I may have to upgrade the handle?? If I get him the Beast in HS, we could always reduce the amount of line on the reel which will reduce the IPT and also add more power? But the Beast is $400, but then he would have in my opinion the Cadillac that should last him a very long time. The worst thing that would happen is I would have to purchase new gears like in the S.
I did contact Abu Garcia an asked if a Beast could be ordered with same gear as the S and the answer was no.
I suppose it matters how much money you have and how much you will use it? So for the casual user and those on a budget the S will probable be great. But we are more of what I would call diehards and honestly money is not an issue for me at this point in my life which is why I am considering the Beast.
So please for those of you who have these reels, please go throw some 10s as that is what we all want to know. And if anyone has both the Beast HS and S please give us a comparison.
Good Luck too |
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Posts: 78
| curleytail - 9/11/2015 12:28 PM
Seems like I read this somewhere, but can't find it now.
Have there been any changes to the gearing or other factors in the Toro S and Beast series (from the Revo Toro NACL's) in regards to durability with hard pulling baits?
Most of us have probably experienced a reel that is used for double 10's getting rougher and rougher over time till they start to sound and feel like a coffee grinder from continued use of hard pulling baits. Higher gear ratio reels are sometimes worse with this than lower gear ratios.
I don't own one, but from what I understand, the huge gears in the Tranx offer a lot of durability. Most guys seem to be buying them for use with hard pulling baits, and there are very few reports of durability issues.
Has Abu Garcia increased the gear sizes, or taken other steps to increase the durability? Is the common thought that the high speed Toro Beast will stand up to hard cranking with large double bladed bucktails with no durability problems?
Has anybody received a Toro Beast or S yet, or have one on order?
Tucker
The Toro Beast/S use a massively larger main gear and pinion as compared to the NaCl. The larger size in conjunction with the modest gear ratios has grown both the thickness of the teeth and also the thickness of the body of the gear (important for rigidity).
1. I chose the image below of the Revo Beast low gear model (even though the spring is a bit in the way) because it shows the teeth in the Main well, but also note the thickness in the body of the Pinion.
2. The second image is of an NaCl HS. Note how much thinner the body of the Pinion is and the Main is substantially smaller, by maybe 20% in diameter.
Net result: The gears in the Toro Beast/S are substantially tougher than previous.
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Posts: 157
Location: Lincoln, NE | I have a HS Beast and a Toro S 60 ordered. They just made it from FedEx to the post office so hoping will get then Monday but probably Tuesday or Wednesday. The HS Beast is going on a XXH Predator for line pickup for big rubber and the Toro S 60 is going on the Nasty for 10s. I'll throw some 10s with the Beast and report back how it does conpared to the Toro S. And also conpared to my uncles Tranx PG that I used the other weekend. The reason I went with the Abus over a Tranx is that even if they take a little more effort to crank I'd rather put the workload on the muscles in my right arm than the ligaments and joints in my left wrist which I injured in the past. Also my NACL casts way better than the Tranx so the only thing for me that was nice about the Tranx was the retrieve. My cousin uses the Tranx and loves it but he's also 6'8" and could probably use a Makaira and be fine.
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Posts: 1416
Location: oconomowoc, wi | timhutson1 - 9/12/2015 7:26 AM
Throw some double 10's and give us a report. I would be really interested in an assessment of each gear ratio with the 10's if you have both versions.
only bought the S in the 5:3.1 i will be trying it out tomorrow. |
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Posts: 1749
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | The 4.9 pulled 10's and Ernies with less resistance on the crank than a PG. I measured the line pickup on my beast at 28-7/8". The spool is as full as it can get without the line hitting the frame. |
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Posts: 410
Location: With my son on the water | Did you by chance measure the actual IPT on your 4.9? |
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Posts: 1749
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | btfish - 9/12/2015 5:02 PM
Did you by chance measure the actual IPT on your 4.9?
28-7/8" with a full spool. I fill them to the top of the shoulder.
All 3 of them I bought are the 4.9 |
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Posts: 410
Location: With my son on the water | Thanks
That's is pretty good. I obviously miss read your first post (need to wear those glasses). I wonder why the Abu Garcia lists the 4.9 in the 60 as bring in only 24IPT? 28 7/8 with the 4.9 isn't bad.
Thanks |
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Posts: 78
| btfish - 9/12/2015 3:44 PM
Thanks
That's is pretty good. I obviously miss read your first post (need to wear those glasses). I wonder why the Abu Garcia lists the 4.9 in the 60 as bring in only 24IPT? 28 7/8 with the 4.9 isn't bad.
Thanks
If I recall correctly they rate them (conservatively) based on a 2/3's filled spool (what you might have after a long cast) so as to not mislead. |
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Posts: 349
| btfish - 9/12/2015 5:44 PM Thanks That's is pretty good. I obviously miss read your first post (need to wear those glasses). I wonder why the Abu Garcia lists the 4.9 in the 60 as bring in only 24IPT? 28 7/8 with the 4.9 isn't bad. Thanks 4.9 in the 60 is rated for 27 ipt.
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| 3-4 inches less per turn with a smaller spool than the PG. Sounds about right, they serve different purposes, you are not going to get a beast to do what a PG does and the beast is going to serve roles a PG won't. Just different applications. |
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Posts: 410
Location: With my son on the water | Sorry for my confusion guys. I had some of the best eye sight in the world most of my life so wearing reading glasses is not something that comes naturally for me but something I MUST do more. You guys are correct.
The beast in the 50 with 4.9 gears is 24 IPT, the 60 in 4.9 is 27 IPT.
The beast in the 50 with 6.2 gears is 31 IPT, the 60 in 6.2 is 34 IPT.
The S in the 60 with 5.3 is 29 IPT.
I know the Tranx PG is listed at 30 IPT but now I am wondering what mine actually is?? I think I need to go measure it.
I really think Abu Garcia has hit a home run with this new line up of reels and has provided enough options to make us all happy. My problem is figuring out which combination will work the best for my son.
I really look forward to more actual feedback from the guys who have these reels.
Have a good day everyone |
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Posts: 251
| btfish - 9/13/2015 5:10 AM
Sorry for my confusion guys. I had some of the best eye sight in the world most of my life so wearing reading glasses is not something that comes naturally for me but something I MUST do more. You guys are correct.
Definately, and make sure to get pictures of your fish on the bumpboard for now; . |
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Posts: 2097
| So take into consideration the size of spool on tranx pg/700te vs beast. At end of a long cast the beast 4.9 will give around 27ipc going by tuttle said they measure ipt 2/3 full. With the large shimano spools will they still be closer to around 30" after a long cast? |
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| I am going to pick up the 4.9 and have a PG as well. should cover everything:-) Great time to be a muskie person. We have never had it better. |
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Posts: 1283
| Just got my 4.9 and HS 60s today. Spooling them up right now. |
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Posts: 1283
| Wow both pull 10s with ease and the HS can bulge them no prob. |
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Posts: 1283
| Not bulge but blow them out the 4.9 can create a wake with ease. It is no comparison to the nacls witch I loved. The 4.9 is like butter with 10s and will come to the surface with out much effort. The HS will blow 10s out without much effort. TThat's with the stock paddle handle. Which BTW is about a ¹/4 longer then the nacl. |
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Posts: 1416
Location: oconomowoc, wi | gave the Toro S a good workout today after Packer game... pulls 8's, 10's, 12's like a trout spinner! I will be buying another!
Fits the hand just right. Smooth casting. Easy drag adjustment. Highly recommend this reel! |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | 12's like a trout spinner ... Good one! |
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Posts: 311
Location: Lake St.Clair | Might have to grab a 6.2 for rubbers danmit there goes some loot |
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Posts: 3
| I've just bought one of these revo toro beasts as an upgrade from my old Abu 6500c3.
I'm a bit confused about all the adjustments to the brake, there was no manual in the box. I understand how to use the spool tension knob as I've got the same setup on the old reel, but I'm not sure how to use the brake adjustment dial.
Also do I need to remove the palm side plate to adjust the brake pins?
If I'm changing from a 5oz lure to a 2oz, what would I adjust other then the spool tension knob?
Hope you can provide some clarity, cheers
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Posts: 1283
| Yes you need to remove the side plate to adjust the pins. The dial is for fine tuning and doesnt do much on its own IMO. I set 3 pins in and 3 out and leave the dial on 0. You can still bomb little 1.5oz baits and heavy stuff into the wind without cranking down the spool tension knob and not worry about backlashes, the less braking you use the more you have to pay attention to thumbing the spool. |
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Posts: 78
| Jimmywho - 11/3/2015 1:04 PM
I've just bought one of these revo toro beasts as an upgrade from my old Abu 6500c3.
I'm a bit confused about all the adjustments to the brake, there was no manual in the box. I understand how to use the spool tension knob as I've got the same setup on the old reel, but I'm not sure how to use the brake adjustment dial.
Also do I need to remove the palm side plate to adjust the brake pins?
If I'm changing from a 5oz lure to a 2oz, what would I adjust other then the spool tension knob?
Hope you can provide some clarity, cheers
The "centrifugal" brakes (pins) on the spool are your first adjustment. Generally add pins until all 6 are being used if required. The side cover comes off very easily, the thumb screw is spring loaded to keep the plate on even if the screw is loose so you have to pop it out the last bit. Twist the side plate clockwise to get it off.
Then you have the mag brakes that are adjusted with the outside dial on the face of the side cover. Add as needed to get control by turning counter clockwise for more braking.
If these are not enough, then the spool tension knob is your last option. Normally I have it set so there is no spool tension, but if you need to, set it by just tightening enough to slow the drop of the lure when the thumb button is depressed (reel out of gear) and add as needed. This uses a brake pad inside that will wear over time, so I try not to use it unless strictly required.
Depending on the rod used I generally play with just the mag control to adjust over a days fishing.
Good luck. You should find it a rather dramatic upgrade from a 6500. |
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Posts: 3
| Thanks John et al, that's really useful.
Tbh im dreading using the reel this weekend, I took me a while to get used to the 6500 and avoiding birds nests , im thinking I'm going to get one on first cast with this and spend forever unpicking it.
So if I'm casting a 5oz dawg for a bit, then want to switch to a 2oz spoon, would you make any adjustments ? I was going to tighten the spool tension when changing over.
Also would you start off with 3 pins and some spool tension set, or 6 pins and no spool tension ? |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | You won't overrun. I'd start with 3 pins (alternating) and very little tension on the cast control. Then use thumb as needed. |
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Posts: 78
| Jimmywho - 11/4/2015 3:57 AM
Thanks John et al, that's really useful.
Tbh im dreading using the reel this weekend, I took me a while to get used to the 6500 and avoiding birds nests , im thinking I'm going to get one on first cast with this and spend forever unpicking it.
So if I'm casting a 5oz dawg for a bit, then want to switch to a 2oz spoon, would you make any adjustments ? I was going to tighten the spool tension when changing over.
Also would you start off with 3 pins and some spool tension set, or 6 pins and no spool tension ?
Nothing to dread, these reels cast like a dream.
If you want to be conservative, start with all 6 pins pulled out and the mag brakes all dialed up then make easy casts (ie don't swing for the fences straight off) to slowly get a sense of how much braking you need. Then, use less and less until you get a balance between distance and control.
The rod has a lot to do with backlashes. If it easily loads then the lure will accelerate slower during the cast and make it much easier to control. Its when you really have to whip the rod to get the lure moving that you commonly run into trouble (and need a softer rod).
All in all, much easier to use with braid than a 6500. With the right amount of cast control dialed in you cast without even thinking about it anymore. Leaving it loose enough so you still need a little thumb will be max distance. |
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Posts: 3
| The rod is new too , it's a st croix premier pm60hf, upgraded from a Pete mania pmx66mht.
I'm hoping this rod with the toro beast is a good combo, I only fish for pike from a boat in the uk, hope to head across the pond and try my hand at muskies some time |
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Posts: 78
| Jimmywho - 11/4/2015 8:10 AM
The rod is new too , it's a st croix premier pm60hf, upgraded from a Pete mania pmx66mht.
I'm hoping this rod with the toro beast is a good combo, I only fish for pike from a boat in the uk, hope to head across the pond and try my hand at muskies some time
You'll love it. Truly state of the art. I fish salt primarily and was reluctant to comment on the cranking power for the big spinner baits muskie guys use...Took the reel out and fished some large lipped plugs that are strenuous with spinning gear or other baitcasters....
Even the high speed Beast (albeit with the longest handle) moved them so well the arm holding the rod is the one that tires, not the one cranking. It was a unique sensation feeling the rod throb in your hands from the big lipped baits while still cranking them effortlessly with the other.
The reel doesn't even notice lures that were a chore to fish before.  |
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Posts: 1
| johndtuttle - 11/5/2015 9:56 PM
You'll love it. Truly state of the art. I fish salt primarily and was reluctant to comment on the cranking power for the big spinner baits muskie guys use...Took the reel out and fished some large lipped plugs that are strenuous with spinning gear or other baitcasters....
Even the high speed Beast (albeit with the longest handle) moved them so well the arm holding the rod is the one that tires, not the one cranking. It was a unique sensation feeling the rod throb in your hands from the big lipped baits while still cranking them effortlessly with the other.
The reel doesn't even notice lures that were a chore to fish before. :-O
Well I've now used the reel for maybe 10 sessions of 8 hours and no overruns in 80 hours, i love this reel; my old 6501C3 would overrun every trip.
I do however find it hard switching from large bait, say 150g, to something thats maybe 70g - what adjustments to the reel woudl you make when changing to this lighter bait?
On the 150g bait I use zero brake, nearly zero on the dial adjust, and 3 pins in. When I switch to a lighter bait I nearly get overruns so I go back to larger baits. |
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Posts: 78
| Juanfangio - 1/6/2016 3:51 AM
johndtuttle - 11/5/2015 9:56 PM
You'll love it. Truly state of the art. I fish salt primarily and was reluctant to comment on the cranking power for the big spinner baits muskie guys use...Took the reel out and fished some large lipped plugs that are strenuous with spinning gear or other baitcasters....
Even the high speed Beast (albeit with the longest handle) moved them so well the arm holding the rod is the one that tires, not the one cranking. It was a unique sensation feeling the rod throb in your hands from the big lipped baits while still cranking them effortlessly with the other.
The reel doesn't even notice lures that were a chore to fish before. :-O
Well I've now used the reel for maybe 10 sessions of 8 hours and no overruns in 80 hours, i love this reel; my old 6501C3 would overrun every trip.
I do however find it hard switching from large bait, say 150g, to something thats maybe 70g - what adjustments to the reel woudl you make when changing to this lighter bait?
On the 150g bait I use zero brake, nearly zero on the dial adjust, and 3 pins in. When I switch to a lighter bait I nearly get overruns so I go back to larger baits.
You have to use more cast control. Dial up the mag control to full when you switch to lighter baits and back off as much as you can in successive casts to balance distance vs. brake needed.
You can also come up with a standard amount of centrifugal brake (the pins on the spool) that either works for both or allows you to dial in the mag brake (external) to get it right. For Example, I leave all of my pins "on" all the time and this lets me cast heavy or light by only adjusting the external mag control.
The reels are very fast casters, so they will need fine tuning for light baits that de-accelerate more quickly than heavy baits that cut through the air. |
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Posts: 78
| On another note Abu Garcia confirms that replacement gear sets are available, and are $50 for the pair (main and pinion) for those that want to adjust the gear ratio of the reel they bought. The gears will work in the Toro-s or Toro Beast.
Let the tinkering begin!
Part numbers:
1380698
PINION T2 S60
1380701
MAIN GEAR T2 S60
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Steve Worrall, you've mentioned a few times in other posts that the S has this particular feel or balance that you really like. Seems you may prefer this reel in terms of feel and handling more than the Beast. Can you, or possibly John explain why that may be? It seems like they are essentially the same reel, with the Beast just having a few different/upgraded parts.
Also, does anybody know what replacement handles may cost, and are they readily available from Abu? I like the cost and inch per crank of the 60 S, but may want to change the handle at some point. If I want to try the unbalanced power handle, and/or the double paddle handle, I might be further ahead to just get the Beast if the handles are fairly expensive.
Finally, it sounds like the S, rated at 29" actually does over 30. I believe I read that somewhere - maybe in this thread. Is the Beast that's rated at 34" also greater than 34 inches per crank? If so, that might be a little faster than I want for a double 10 reel.
Either way, I need to have one of these in my lineup this summer.
Tucker |
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Posts: 1283
| I have both and no way would I say the S is better in anyway besides $$$$$$ and its mid ratio gearing, but you can put those gears in a Beast. Its a great reel but no beast. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | What would you say the beast does significantly better than the s? Changing the gears in the beast makes it a pretty spendy reel. Is the beast that much smoother? Cast farther? |
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Posts: 32925
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | achotrod - 1/26/2016 1:11 PM
I have both and no way would I say the S is better in anyway besides $$$$$$ and its mid ratio gearing, but you can put those gears in a Beast. Its a great reel but no beast.
It feels better in my hands all day, is butter smooth, and just fits me nice. So no way would I agree with you no way. The Beast rocks, I just like the S personally. I don't throw double 10s much. |
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Posts: 673
Location: Twin Cities, MN | Steve,
Do you go with the 50 or 60 S ?
I don't through DB 10's all that much either.
Pal |
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Posts: 32925
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I have one of each, like them both. The 50 is what I started with. |
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Posts: 1283
| curleytail - 1/26/2016 5:33 PM
What would you say the beast does significantly better than the s? Changing the gears in the beast makes it a pretty spendy reel. Is the beast that much smoother? Cast farther?
Both my Beasts out cast and are smoother then my S by a good margin. Braking is much more adjustable for different size lures, spool tension knob is much nicer and has a clicker, even the paint job is nicer. I cant see how one would say the S fits them better since they share the same frames. The mid gearing is the only thing I think gives a good compromise in terms of speed and ease of retrieve. Ive seen Beasts online as low as $300, so even if you did decide to get the S gearing its still under retail price of $399. They are all awesome but for my $$ the Beast is worth the cost difference. |
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Posts: 32925
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It just feels better to me. That OK? |
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Posts: 78
| Tastes great!
Less Filling!
Does that make me old?
There are some cases where the retrieve rate is the determining factor, others where the cost.
Given that is a new introduction it is reasonable that Abu did not offer both reels in all gear ratios. I use the reels in salt and would be very happy with the Toro S if I was on a budget and needed one reel.
But if not, then I like the extra speed of the Beast for popping or the lower gear for jigging. The Beast is a little more refined, but not a deal breaker or maker unless an extra hundy is no worries. And it sure is sweet.
I do lean towards recommending the Beast as a first reel if you can swing the finances as you do have all of the handle options which make it more versatile. If the reel is a little slow you can use the double paddle, if too fast or more cranking power is needed then you can use the jigging handle etc etc. With the Toro S you are kinda dialed into one thing and extra money spent on gears and handles brings you to Beast money very quick. But at least you have the option.
So, I do like them both and am happy to have a choice. The good news is that whatever you decide all the parts and optional handles are interchangeable so you can have a Toro Beast S or Toro S Beast if you want if you need to go faster or slower or more middlin'. |
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Posts: 778
| The Toro Beast-smaller, smoother, lighter, and more powerful than my 7000's? Sounds good to me! kDAWG |
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Posts: 7083
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | sworrall - 1/28/2016 11:41 AM
It just feels better to me. That OK?
Take Steve's comments with a grain of salt. He has hands the size of a baby raccoon's. |
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Posts: 251
| LOL |
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Posts: 272
| Howdy,
Aside from the weight, how would the 50 size Toro Beast perform as a bass reel? I always liked using the 5500 (before reels got smaller) because of the large diameter spool allowing me to really bomb casts and cover water. I'd like to try the Toro Beast 50 (same size spool and 4.9:1 ratio) but don't know how it would perform casting lighter lures.
I had two opportunities to handle them in a store and, while they seemed heavy, it was hard to tell how much as both times the reels wee either hooked up to a coiled security wire or had an alarm fob hanging on it. Both devices increased the weight considerably so its was hard to tell if it was too heavy or if that was caused because of the aforementioned security devices.
Any thoughts on the weight and ability to cast light lures from those that have used it would be most appreciated.
Take care,
Ruddiger |
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Posts: 32925
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I fished bass with mine last Fall, tossed the middle sized bass stuff fine. |
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Posts: 272
| Howdy,
Steve, when you say middle sized bass stuff (everyones definition differs) could it throw a 1/4 ounce lure if paired on a properly matched rod for that lure? For example, a DT 6 on a St. Croix Legend Tournament Bass crankbait rod?
Take care,
Ruddiger |
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Posts: 141
| Iv been wondering which one to go for, to save me looking through the whole thread can someone tell me if theres a significant difference between the 51 and 61 in terms of physical size? thanks in advance.
Dave |
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Posts: 22
| So I just upgrade from my NACL to the beast 60 4.9 I like to you 100lb tuf line. Was curious how much backing people are putting on it? I do understand different lines, different amount of backing. Just wanted a little insight to what other people are doning? |
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Posts: 22
| Sorry for double post. Can delete one of them. |
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Posts: 239
Location: Madison, WI | I had 100 lb suffix 832 on mine last season and will be switching to 80 lb on it this season. casted great with 100 lb but bomb casts left the spool diameter smaller than i'd like. not sure if others had a similar experience with 100 lb on it |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | To get the spool filled correctly, I put the amount of braid that I want on, then fill the spool up with backing. Then walk the line off and reverse it so braid is on top. No clue how much backing any of my reels have. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | curleytail - 2/18/2016 7:38 PM
To get the spool filled correctly, I put the amount of braid that I want on, then fill the spool up with backing. Then walk the line off and reverse it so braid is on top. No clue how much backing any of my reels have.
What he said. Then, subsequent spoolings with same diam line will yield same future volume |
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Posts: 85
Location: Michigan U.P. | I saw someone asked earlier about where to purchase the power handle with no response, anyone know if they are available now?
Thanks
Ken |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | The Beast and the S has a all new Square drive shaft, so the handles for them will not fit anything else. |
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Posts: 78
| Dafterzip - 2/19/2016 4:26 AM
I saw someone asked earlier about where to purchase the power handle with no response, anyone know if they are available now?
Thanks
Ken
Abu Garcia at their Spirit Lake, IA customer service should have them. |
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Posts: 8
| How do you get the side plate off of the reel to get to the spool? It seems like it should just pop off but it feels like something is catching and I'm afraid I'm going to break something. |
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Posts: 50
| The old Revos you just loosened the screw and twisted it off. With the Beast you have to loosen the screw and then pull ir out to get it to twist off. It's spring loaded now. |
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Posts: 8
| Got it. Thank you! |
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