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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | Glide Baits. Gotta love 'em. Fun to retrieve. Fish eat 'em. And there are hundreds of makes and models to choose from. What more can a musky nut ask for?
With more and more pool-side demos and videos on display in show booths, it is getting easier and easier to see how the lure makers themselves feel their lure should perform. One thing I have observed through all this is that very few people incorporate any sort of PAUSE in their retrieve. Why?
Seems to me that a lot of these Glide Baits are actually being used for SPEED and as some sort of a Search Lure. In my opinion, however, I feel these kinds of lures are better suited for finesse fishing. The reason I have noticed the lack of pauses is because all the "new" stuff that I wanted to see in the water this winter.... I never got to see how fast/slow they sank on the pause. Not a single demo I watched let the lure sit motionless.... and thus I never got the answer to my question. Are these lures being presented in a fast, erratic manner with NO PAUSES simply for show... to oooohhh and aaahhhh the croud..... or am I missing out on a whole new dimension to this style lure?
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that many of the newer glide baits coming out are TOO heavy and sink too fast for guys like me that want a neutral or slow sink rate to allow for extra long pauses. Are these lures made heavier so they can be fished faster?
What do all of you expect from a glide bait? Thanks.
jlong |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Jason,
I do believe that these new heavier lures are made for speed. Also one thing to take into consideration is that the lighter gliders that you can pause, usually have a very wide glide pattern. While the ones built for speed go a few inches side to side. Just two totally different presentations.
I do like the new quicker gliders in the summer and post-spawn, but would rather throw the slower, pauseable gliders.
Just my opinion,
Mike Hulbert
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Posts: 2061
Location: Belgium | I don't like to work a glider fast either, except an 8" reef hawg. I finesse the other gliders. Even the ones I make are all slow sinking, not only because I mainly fish shallow water but because I can tease the fish longer in one spot. Speed doesn't always work. If I want to fish fast with a jerkbait, I use a floating diver or a floating slider (like a striker jr or a divani Xl). |
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Posts: 5874
| Jason,
Great question. I got my first 2 fish this year on Undertakers. The first one hit on a pause. The second hit after my second twitch, just as I was thinking about the pause. I find I have to really think about adding pauses into my retrieves. When I do, I seem to get better results. I have mainly thrown Reef Hawgs and Undertakers untill lats fall, when I also added the Slammer Drop Belly(Can we call this a Slammer DB?)
The Slammer DB is definately heavier, and sinks faster than the Undertaker. I am still trying to figure out how best to work this bait. I love the roll I get with it, and am trying to work it slower, with some pauses, but it sinks pretty fast, so I am a little shy of giving some really tantalizingly long pauses. I'll get it figured out eventually, and this bait will become one of my mainstays, without a doubt. Perhaps Bill can shed some light here? |
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Posts: 938
Location: NeverNever Lake | Two of the baits I have found to work best on the pause........
Hang Ten Manta, close to neutral on the sinking side
Widowmakers Deadhead, close to neutral on the floating side |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I've been thinking the same thing for years, but sort of kept it to myself when I see guys working them in different situations like that. I use gliders alot, and for many different applications, and agree that the first intended use(for me anyhow) is more of a slower finnesse approach with many pauses icorporated(over 80% of my hits come on the pause). I do search with them too though, and like the tight darters' like the 6" and 8" Reef hawgs, and Jerkos for working really fast. I still use pauses even when quick hopping them though, Good luck in 03!! |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | I agree that many can be used as a multi-purpose bait, either finessing them or using them as search tools. I throw quite a few gliders as search baits, quick hopping them and giving them a very erratic, darting action while my boat partner throws bucktails. Many of these gliders will give some great erratic actions when worked a little faster than most consider normal. |
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Posts: 20281
Location: oswego, il | One thing to remember is that not all gliders are created equal. With so many gliders there is one for practically every application we might want. Some seem to only do well working them fast and some just won't wrok at all but at a snails pace. I personally like both ends of that spectrum and they always seem to hit them at the end of their respective glides. |
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | These are all good posts and at any one time they all work, the trick is to figure out when to do them. Last year for me early the fast retrive started out good, then a little later the stop and and pause a second or 2, by the end of the year the fast retrive worked better again.
So for your question jlong, I do not think there is a right or wrong way. How about a glide bait with a adjustable weight system that changes the action. Might be kind of expensive but, you would only have to buy one.
Roger |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I incorporate what is called the 'change-up' into the presentation. I have worked a glider that way out of sheer habit since I got my first one about __ years ago. When the bait hits the water I pop it pretty good then give it a two second pause. Then I twitch, pop, and pull the bait running it dependant on cover and time of year, until I reach about half way, then about a 5 second pause, a downward tap, and work the bait to the boat with short taps. Pause at the boat, about 5 seconds. If no follows, another cast. |
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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | The "right" way is always "your" way (ha ha). So, I suppose the question should really be "How do YOU work a glide bait". However, my real intent was to find out why and when people fish these lures with a fast, steady retrieve... without ever letting the bait come to a complete stop.
My experience with this kind of lure has been.... No Pause = No fish. Obviously this is not a golden rule since many people are fishing these lures successfully without incorporating pauses. If there is a time and place for that technique... I'd like to learn. Thanks.
jlong |
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Posts: 389
Location: Presque Isle Wisconsin | As a glide bait freak... Ill throw my 2 cents in. What has worked the best for me is a fast 2'pull immediately as the lure hits the water followed by a pause then several slow back and forth movements followed by a pause follwed by another 2' fast pull then a pause and so on.... The drop bellys available today are all good at this retreive hughsies/slammers/deadhead/ magic maker etc.When I make the second fast pull I also change the direction as dramatically as possible. I think the erractic nature of the retreive and the belly roll on a god glider are the key things. I dont change the retreive for water temps. One other thing that has produced some vicious strikes on the faster sinkers is to rip it in an upward fashion on one of the fast pulls> I fish them deep a lot and making that upward rip from depths including the bottom has been good to me.Last year one of my clients paused a Magic maker over a hole in a large weedbed. He let it sink a bit and then ripped up One of the fattest 48" muskies Ive ever seen annihilated the thing.I love gliders from spring through fall.. |
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Posts: 196
| Last year I fished the Manta alot and did best with faster action with the only pause being an occasional wide swing out. In my hands this bait does little to interest fish when on a long pause. It worked well as a search bait for me last year. |
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| Jason, hug a tree; the limb you went out on is about to snap!;) I really like the TR Twitcher, as it will do a variety of things and looks cool on a pause at different angles. Even though you might think you are not working a bait right, that doesn't mean that the fish thinks that way. Another neat-o bait is the TR Louie; pause that baby and it slowly rises, wobbling all the way back up. I have no choice but to pause...by the time me bait hits the water, something around me has my attention, and I often stop reeling and think about something else, a VERY hard habit to break! At any rate, have fun whatever or however you choose to work a bait; the idea is to create a personal symphony while on the water, regardless of how stupid one might look. Using the rod as your wand, you can have the performance of a lifetime, fascinating both fisher peeps/fish... |
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Posts: 4520
Location: Chippewa Falls Wisconsin | I want a glide bait that has a good pause. One that goes side to side and then with a quick twitch pops up and hangs sideways for a second without sinking. The must be able to do the "change up" or in my opinion they only hypnotize the fish. I like glide baits that run 1 to 3 feet tops so they can be worked in the weeds and wood. My two favorites are the Undertaker and the Slammer Drop belly. Both of them do what I want them to do and fish eat them....I need nothing else.
Edited by Jason Smith 5/14/2003 8:14 AM
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Posts: 2361
| No, I think you are both wrong here. I believe it was Joe Bucher who coined the term "changeup", uhm, he invented night fishing too, ya know... |
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Posts: 5874
| "I have no choice but to pause...by the time me bait hits the water, something around me has my attention, and I often stop reeling and think about something else, a VERY hard habit to break!"
C'mon Sponge. Who you trying to kid? You know the reason you have no choice, is that you totally forgot you just threw the bait, and for that matter, that you were even on the water! |
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Posts: 24
| Last year I was on the last 10 feet or so of a Reef Hawg retrieve and I was just sort of mesmerized myself, listening to a grouse drum on a hill (spacing out), and tap, tap, pause, WHOOSH! Nice fish at boatside, just about crapped my pants.
I seem to catch all kinds of fish when my mind just wanders. I must subtly change my retrieve or something and bang. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Pausing my baby jerko helped my partner and I get 11 muskies to hit tonight. Too bad 7 of them decided to let go of our lures, Doghhhhh!!!!! i pause always, but often my pauses are very short, and lead right into the next pop'. Pauses do not need to be extended, or even thought about. In fact if working a glider, a pause is almost inevitable on each twitch is just for a moment. One thing I've noticed with my Reef hawgs that sink and my little jerkkos now, is that I often "hold" the lure up(I fish very shallow rocky snaggy areas this time of year) on the pause, lessening the speed of the sink rate. This can be done on a fast retrieve or a slow one. On the slower retreieve the rod must be raised while the "hold" is done though. Hard to explain, but muskies like it. Handy, I need your help!!!!! Will you please weight a couple 6" hawgs for me before the tourney?????? Let me know what you want for it. Thanks J |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I have several reef hawgs that I weighted a 'few years' back that nose up and down nicely, and do the dance pretty well. An Amma Bamma or Dick G's bait is not too much removed from a Drop Belly Glider, and also can be worked fast, then pause, then slow. Tek Neeks are great gliders if you are lucky enough to still have one that was a good one, as are the old Eddies if you get one soaked up enough. A Smitty can be worked so fast it literally zips every which way, and will stay down, too. Here are a few of the older gliders I like. The top lure is a Hog Nose, a weighted glider made by Dan Jerzak up here about 12 years ago. It is weighted to stay down, but an upward pop can make it start to walk across the top, too. The second is a Smitty, third and fourth Reef Hawgs. To get a Reef Hawg to dance as I like them, one has to simply find the right ones. Usually, if someone complains they have a Reef Hawg that won't stay down, I try to buy it from them. :) The fifth I am not sure of. I have three of these things, and really like them. The tail on the back (a flattened out buzz blade) allows for subtle tuning, and can be set so the lure walks the dog, wobbles, or pops up and down. This lure sinks slowly, and can't be described as a jerk bait. Anyone know who made this lure? I caught a bunch of fish on these on Minaki, Sioux Narrows, and on Pelican. I think the Undertaker has some of the best attributes that allow me to work the bait erratically, and after trying one, the Manta does too. The Jerko will do about the same thing, but is a bit more work in the weeds.
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Posts: 4520
Location: Chippewa Falls Wisconsin | A change up for me is when a bait goes side to side...then you make it nose dive then the next twitch runs the bait up and into the right or left corner but high, where its stops and remains neutral for a few seconds............. A change up is not stopping and then starting again like you said with the "Amma Bamma", which is not a Dick Gries bait. Dick's were cut different and were not weighted the same. The older versions of the Dick Gries Striker was as close to an Amma Bamma you could get, but he only made them one year and I have two and they still dont change up. If you stop them, they simply nose dive. B-Flats are impossible to change up as are Tek neeks. The real deal is that muskies are stupid and you can work a jerkbait or glide bait wrong and someday some how........they eat it because they are stupid. The trick is to working the bait correctly (in you own confident manner) that works on a daily basis. |
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Posts: 2089
| Steve,
That bait on the bottom looks like a Monarch made years ago by Musky Monarch Tackle(I think that was the name) out of all places, Elcho.I bought one @ Goerkes Corner a long time ago. Steve |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Steve, You are right, nailed it. Now I remember. Great lure, too. That one is on it's 4th or 5th paint job. The Amma Bamma or Dick G Striker can do a change of direction very nicely, as can a Tek Neek. I used them both quite a bit, and still have a Striker here somewhere. I even weighted a B Flat until I got it to dance, but the thing plain wouldn't hook up for me. As you know, I work a glider (especially an Undertaker, I move it WAY faster than most do, including Bryan) totally different than average most of the time. Goes to show, whatever provides confidence works! |
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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | Change up, shmange up. Its all about the PAUSE. Ha ha. |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | jlong, Do you feel no matter the speed it should be consistent, or do you vary retrieve speed during the cast? If so, when it goes from fast to slow, or the other way around, is that when you pause the retrieve? I am inerested in how slow you fish a glider, and this pause thing. WTH, let's just get out on Pelican this June and you can show me. Pelican muskies LIKE gliders.   |
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Posts: 196
| Speaking of undertakers, how do you get them to do the nose dive away from the boat. Walking the dog and popping it up I can do but working on the nose dive. |
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | Sworral
Don Pfieffer has a way to modifiy a B flat for better hook ups without changing the way it works. If I remember correctly he drills a hole threw the middle of the bait above the middle hook and puts a wire threw with a hook on each side. Don and Duke would tell me that the fish would get the lure from the top and miss the belly hook. |
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