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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Many of us probably know at least one person personally or maybe through this site that we consider to be a REALLY good fisherman.
Maybe it's a guy that is winning tournaments wherever he goes.
Or it's that guy that every time he takes a trip to Canada, MN, or WI he's catching good numbers of big fish, and usually reporting at least one and often multiple 50's from a week long trip.
Or maybe it's a local guy that is just always on fish and puts up more numbers and more big fish than anybody else you know.
What are these guys doing that earns them success more often than not when they hit the water, whether they are familiar with the water or not? How are these guys approaching the day, or the season to give them above average results?
The million dollar question is how do those of us that are not THAT guy, approach fishing so that we become THAT guy? Just what does it take? And if you are THAT guy, do you have some tips that could help the rest of us?
Discuss. 
Edited by curleytail 4/1/2015 12:47 PM
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Posts: 1036
| All pretty much boils down to one thing. Time on the water. |
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Posts: 397
Location: Wisconsin | The guys I have in mind just spend more time on the water than everyone else. They know what the fish do in a lot more situations than I, and when those situations arise, they capitolize.
If I knew what was going through their head, I would be a much better fisherman! |
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Posts: 20219
Location: oswego, il | Awareness and your ability to think for yourself. This sport can be broken down into followers and leaders. Which one are you?
Edited by ToddM 4/1/2015 1:09 PM
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | I was thinking time was the obvious answer, and in general spending more time on the water is probably the most important thing a person can do to increase their odds.
Let me throw this wrench in though - some guys DON'T get to fish that much more than the average weekend angler, and they still do better in a given amount of time than most others.
What are they doing different, or better?
Tucker |
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Posts: 8782
| I've fished with "that guy" more times than I can count. As mentioned above, time on the water is key. But there is more to it than that.
The first part is knowing the waters you fish like the back of your hand.
The second is being able to translate your experiences to a whole new body of water.
Third is being out there every day. When you're out there every day, you know where the fish are. You know what colors are working, what presentations are working, and what time the fish are moving. Even a marginal angler will have an advantage when he/she can hit the water and go right to the areas where fish are being seen and caught.
You or I can sit down the night before with a map and pick out areas and spots that "should be" good. We can look at water temperatures and wind. We can refer back to areas where we caught fish or saw fish at this time last year.
But the guy who has fished every day for the last month can go right to the fish. Not a guarantee of success or course, fish do move. But knowing where they were yesterday does help a lot.
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Posts: 345
Location: Poynette WI. | I was going to say exactly what Vegas said. Probably the best advice anyone could give. A side from attending seminars and countless hours of research and discussion it all comes down to applying it when on the water. Paying attention to what the fish and waters are telling you and outting the time on the water. What I believe for the guys consistently catching big fish is that they are putting them selves in a place where big fish are or if there after numbers there going after a numbers lake. They're not magically or aimlessly putting there finger on a map to pick a lake. |
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Posts: 397
Location: Wisconsin | Good points Esox...
I have fished one particular lake for 15 years, and it changes every year based on where weeds grow in and what not. So a spot that was awesome last june may not be a fishable spot at all this year. Only lots of time on the water will make you point out those hot spots year in and year out.
Another thing is strategy. I know some guys that will park on a 100yard weed bed all day, becase they know fish are there and they are waiting for that window to open. I also know other guys that are run and gun guys, hitting tons of different spots with different presentations, looking to find what is working that day. I guess that is one cool thing that makes this sport so diverse |
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Location: oswego, il | Read my post above, answers all questions. |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | And even That guy doesn't always catch fish. It's a low numbers and low odds game. I've fished with a bunch of good sticks and see them get blanked as well. I would say being able to spend the "right" time on the water is the the thing that separates that next level from most of us. When you're a weekend warrior and are relegated to fish the weather and conditions you're faced with, that can be a tough thing. |
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Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | Fish with lots of different people. You'll learn new things good and bad.
Like how to net properly, Right Tonts? |
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Posts: 8782
| There's no "right way"...
One guide I fish with regularly will spend a whole day on the same three spots, throwing the same lure and picking those spots apart. Back and forth and back and forth. That takes some getting used to, but eventually the fish show up and eat.
Another just runs and guns, blasts through a spot, handful of casts and gone. We may hit 20 spots and fish none of them for more than 5 minutes. Eventually we encounter a hungry one, sometimes more.
Another likes to pass up all the "good spots" in favor of tiny little humps way off of any visible structure where you feel like you're just casting into oblivion. "What is this we are fishing and why are we way out here when.... OMG, there's one!!"
At the end of the day, they ALL put a lot of quality fish in the boat.
Edited by esoxaddict 4/1/2015 1:45 PM
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Posts: 4269
Location: Ashland WI | I agree that there is more than "time on the water".
I would say the ability to "think on the water" is equally critical.
For example, last fall I had a tough day. A friend and I went to a numbers lake and casted for around 8 hours straight. We moved one small fish. When I look back, I realized that we tried different lures and speeds, but not different depths. That day was sunny and calmer. The fish could possibly have moved up into some really shallow areas. It was also after turnover, so they could have been deep. For whatever reason, I did not think of this while out on the lake. Possible could have made the difference for us that day. |
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Posts: 447
Location: Waconia, MN | Time on the water is key! |
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Location: Contrarian Island | being versatile, adapting to what the fish tell you, having an open mind, boat control, and being very observant...
sure time on the water will put fish in the boat, simply by being on the water when the feeding windows open... anyone can put 100 fish in the boat in a season with enough hours on water to do it...like others have said, it's the guys that put fish in the boat with LESS hours on the water than the rest that are doing things right....
Edited by BNelson 4/1/2015 2:27 PM
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | I fish with "that guy" occasionally too.
He's totally relentless in his pursuit. Focus never wanes, never wants to call it quits, rips pounders all day without taking micro breaks or switching to lighter baits.
I'm not sure he actually enjoys himself out there, but if we fish a lake neither of us have any experience on he'll catch fish.
If you aren't that type (I'm not) then time on the water is your best bet. |
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Posts: 2325
Location: Chisholm, MN | To me, a lot of it has to do with reading the conditions and capitalizing on feeding windows. It's a combination of all factors like knowing the lake, presentations, boat control, and then putting it all together. You have to be good at all factors to be REALLY good. Not that I'm really good or anything... |
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Posts: 20219
Location: oswego, il | Time on the water isn't key if you make the same mistakes and do the same things with the same result. |
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Posts: 25
| 99.9% luck! I fish a river in WI that I have landed over 400 muskies on. I used to fish it 5-6 days a week all season long. My longest netted fish is 48.5". I talked to a 17 year old kid who has fished it a fraction of the time I have at spots I have fished forever and he has a 50.5" and a 52" (bucktail and sucker) and less than 75 fish. I must be the most unlucky musky fisherman in the history of the sport. |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Time on the Water is no guarantee. Its what you do with that time that seems to make the difference. All the good feedback regarding creativity, experimentation, "thinking", etc. is where its at. Whoever said be the leader and not the follower.... is on the right track as well. I'd much rather fish 8 hours with a guy that reads the water... than 16 hours with a guy that just grinds fish out. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i know 3 people who i'd consider "that guy" and have spent quite a bit of time in the boat with all three. i know about the same number of others who i haven't fished with but they are similar in what i see in their approaches. all i would say are where they want to be or can read it when they aren't and not afraid to adjust. they know what the lake looks like without water, are meticulous planners and organized physically and mentally all of the time. they are the guys who are doing it in extremes when others may not quite want to do it (weather, early, late, wind, rain etc... ). their hooks are always sharp, their boats are always organized and they use baits as tools. they are well connected and detailed about the systems they use to manage data in their electronics and then they are able to put their boat in position to present and able to adjust to the mood of the fish at the time ... from hot windows to cold fronts to everything in-between. if they have a day to fish a lake they aren't afraid to spend most of it looking, learning, mapping instead of just chucking baits down a shoreline or out in a basin. they are aware of what is happening around them from deer, loons, seabirds, wind, surface activity etc..., you name it.
most of all they are consistently lucky ... |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | jonnysled - 4/1/2015 3:38 PM i know 3 people who i'd consider "that guy" and have spent quite a bit of time in the boat with all three. i know about the same number of others who i haven't fished with but they are similar in what i see in their approaches. all i would say are where they want to be or can read it when they aren't and not afraid to adjust. they know what the lake looks like without water, are meticulous planners and organized physically and mentally all of the time. they are the guys who are doing it in extremes when others may not quite want to do it (weather, early, late, wind, rain etc... ). their hooks are always sharp, their boats are always organized and they use baits as tools. they are well connected and detailed about the systems they use to manage data in their electronics and then they are able to put their boat in position to present and able to adjust to the mood of the fish at the time ... from hot windows to cold fronts to everything in-between. if they have a day to fish a lake they aren't afraid to spend most of it looking, learning, mapping instead of just chucking baits down a shoreline or out in a basin. they are aware of what is happening around them from deer, loons, seabirds, wind, surface activity etc..., you name it. most of all they are consistently lucky ... Well said, Johnny. Its what you do with your time on the water that makes the difference. Heck, even what you do OFF the water in preparation makes the difference. TIME alone means nothing. |
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| "Intelligent Fishing"...
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Posts: 580
| I think everything Sled said is 100% spot on, and there are some other great answers above, but I'll focus on something that is really fundamental. Both Brad and Sled already alluded to it, but after having fished from the back of the boat with different guys over the years, one of the single biggest differences that I've seen separating the really good anglers from the so-so anglers is the simple concept of Boat Control. (And by the way, having fished with Brad a fair amount over the years, I can say that I don't know of anyone better when it comes to this topic).
Boat control means positioning the boat along structure such that your casts are placed correctly and, just as importantly, the boat's speed is correct for the conditions, the type of structure that you are fishing, and the types of baits that are being used. Also, when fishing with a partner or two, it means positioning the boat so that all anglers are in perfect position.
To do it right, it requires both knowledge and skill. Knowledge of the EXACT location of the structure as you approach it, knowledge of EXACTLY how the spot is laid out, knowledge of the best "spots on the spot" within that structure, and then the (often overlooked) skill of positioning the boat correctly, often times in adverse conditions, without blowing through the spot too fast or wasting time by "dying on the spot" and fishing it too slowly....basically matching the boat speed and boat's approach with the correct type of presentation for the conditions.
If you've fished with anglers who "don't get it", and anglers who do, you'll know that it makes a HUGE difference and IMO isn't something that gets talked about nearly enough. Guys who do it right put themselves in the perfect position to "get lucky".
Edit: correcting those nasty typo's.
Edited by Matt DeVos 4/1/2015 4:30 PM
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Posts: 20219
Location: oswego, il | The person who put a motion timer on a bathroom light doesn't get it. They would not make a good musky fisherman. The person who invented yoga pants on the other hand, completely gets it and would fish circles around most.
Edited by ToddM 4/1/2015 4:45 PM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i know a guy who uses the same or very similar "system" to grouse hunting. he's consistently lucky there too and seems to always have the guns in the right position. |
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Location: Otsego, MN | Time on the water
Always learning
Logs and learns from past outings
Fishes with others and learns from them
Plans their daily attack ( weather, wind, majors, minors,) |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | One of the keys I think opens quite a few 'success' doors is knowing enough about what makes the fish you are trying to catch tick and to have a reasonably complete understanding of the 'alien environment' in which they live, so that if a good thing happens you know the what, why, where, and how of it and can repeat it.
Every body of water has differences and similarities to every other. Understand those and what the fish do seasonally, etc. and why they do that in each and good things start to happen. Understand the relationship of all other fish of any given species to the fish you are targeting. Learn how the catch the largest of those other fish too.
A really good Ford truck mechanic who knows zero/zip/zilch and shuns knowledge about Toyota/Chevy/Dodge can tell what's what, but can't necessarily fix what's busted. That person may be recognized as a 'great mechanic', but will be great on a 'Ford' lake, and not as great on a 'Chevy' lake.
Know the targeted fish's capacities and abilities, and don't accept story/lore/rumor/whatever as a substitute for that knowledge.
Ask 'why?' allot. Figure out the answers.
Fish for other fish some. Accept that you don't know what you don't know, and try to put yourself where you can learn as much of that as is possible.
Take the red pill.
Don't put a timed motion sensor on the bathroom light. Or the fan. I'm not sure why not. |
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Posts: 1144
Location: Minnesota. | Interesting topic for sure!! Some really good answers given that just about cover the entire gamut of "what to do" and paying attention and maybe what not to do etc.
Plus the all too obvious deal with time on the water.
I've not much to add other than I'll go back and re-read some input on paying attention and not being bone headed or stubborn enough to not change it up a bit. I guess that's my bit of input.
Keep trying. Pay attention. Keep at it more and also realize that we're after a fish that has it's own inconsistencies and you'll quite likely never be able to get much of that down pat. It's like watching a bunch of middle aged girls trying to agree on everything in the kitchen...it ain't gonna be possible!
Seriously though, it would work to be able to minimize the dumb moves and learn. And then put that to later days on the water.
And there's that again....time on the water.
Personally I think it wouldn't be near as much fun if I got 3 fish every time I went out. But if you would see MY record you'd maybe call on that comment!!!!!
Man, I love this sport!
Jeremy. |
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| Hard work. And luck is just preparation meeting opportunity. |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | Thought I'd try with what I think. Many of the above posts say time on the water is one of the keys, and that's very true However, I think that if you are fishing a very low population of fish it's very hard to know if what you are doing is right or wrong. To become a real good muskie fisherman you need to fish where there's a good population of fish. To know if you are doing something right or wrong you need to have something to catch. Then as mentioned, boat control is very important, and this comes with learning the lake. When to stay out, when to get in close, when to go fast, (low population spot) when to go slow (high population spot) and pick it apart. With this is the ability to cast with great accuracy, with out any screw-ups. Be very efficient with your casts. Do an “L” on each cast and learn how to see a muskie following your lure. Then learn how to read the water. There will be spots in weed beds, boulders, flats, points, cliffs, basins, sand beaches, fallen trees, bait schools, and many others that are a better bet than the rest of the lake. Learn where these are. Fish these areas! Learn about the fish. What do they like for prey, when do they spawn, what is their preferred water temp and water clarity. What do they do on a seasonal basis. Learn about there home ranges. They do lots of different thing, but many are the same. Fish where they are at that time of year. Fish with as many different experienced muskie fisherman as you can as very likely you'll learn something. One of he best muskie learning experiences there is, is to guide for 30+ years. And a whole lot of luck! Doug Johnson |
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Posts: 283
| Lots of really good points were made. Another thing that wasn't hit on yet...Is just straight up keeping fish pinned. The best fishermen have the best figure 8s and can read fish well turning followers into eaters. Anyone can catch the suicidal fish on the figure 8. |
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| dougj - 4/1/2015 9:13 PM Fish with as many different experienced muskie fisherman as you can as very likely you'll learn something. That's the REAL secret, right there. There's not enough time in one lifetime for an isolated person to develop all the necessary knowledge and skill needed to be "that guy" all on his own. |
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Location: varies | Man! "Really good" sounds like a lot of work. I'm good with just "Aw right". |
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Posts: 410
Location: one foot over the line | Enjoy the hunt. If one is so he!!-bent on boating the biggest fish or the most, fishing can turn into an extremely frustrating game. Be prepared; boat, gear, maps, positive mental attitude, electronics, analysis, etc, however, if it doesn't happen on a given outing, understand that there will (hopefully) be other days. Very similar to bow-hunting trophy bucks. Reminds me of a field of dreams, "if you build it, they will come". Time on the water is wonderful, enjoy it. |
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Posts: 397
Location: Wisconsin | you bring up a good point... My Dad and I have always said, "they hit when you least expect it".... |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | A lot of great information here. Time on the water seams to be the key.
Nobody mentioned the "Network factor"
The Guy that has people calling him 4-6 times a day with info on the Bite, has a big advantage because he knows the, Where, When, What Bait to use, Color, How deep, ect. ect.
Good topic. |
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Posts: 19
| i think setting yourself up to succeed is a big part of it also, you can spend a lot of time on water and not accomplish much. Realizing that you cant do everything and have to make decisions on what you feel is right for the area you fish and the time you have. Have FUN and don't expect to catch ten fish before you catch one
i did not expect much when i started reading this but i like it:)
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Posts: 284
Location: Eagan, MN | "Ask 'why?' allot. Figure out the answers."
Why ask why? Muskies are as dumb as a stump. Not much to figure out. Throw a 2x4 and eventually you'll get bit. Time on the water. Those guys who catch fish are just lucky, that's all. |
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Location: oswego, il | Awareness is mental, a state of mind. It is part of your consciousness. Some learn it some don't. You ever ride in the car with someone and they run up behind a slow car, slow down and could have easily just passed them on a 4 lane road? Vary their speed 5, 10, 15mph for no reason? Awareness. I have fished with people who do this. That lack of awareness shows on the water too.
Agree on fishing with experienced people but not necessary if you posses the above.
Edited by ToddM 4/2/2015 6:30 AM
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Posts: 358
| mastery of the basics & the will to succeed. this makes you good wherever you go. many people think they have it, but not many really do. |
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Location: Northern IL | Are you talking about where you blind fold a guy, set him in a "tiller boat" anywhere in the world and in a short amount of time he could tell you about everything there is to know about the body of water in which he just landed? I knew a guy like that!Â
This guy use to say it took him about 4days to put a lake in his back pocket, show off... He could draw you a map of the most productive structure situations in that body of water and show you the migration route the fish were using. He would show the places (he called them "breaks") where the fish would stop or pause along the route and say "how far they move and how long they stay at a break or breakline was totally dependent on the weather and water conditions at the time". He would also say "water color is one of the most important chooses a fishermen can make", he really was something! Give him three rods, 2 trolling /mono & single strand wire and a casting rod, a set of "tools" lures that allowed him to reach the shallows, the deep and the in-between depths at all speeds and a basic depth meter and watch this master go to work.
No one will argue that time is necessary in rising to the top in any endeavor but imo and Todd's and others time alone is not enough. To point to tow. as being the cure all misses the point. Guys that understand or are aware of fish movements, fish activity, how the weather and water conditions effect these movements get more out of their time. All of the "successful consistent" fishermen that I know, met or have ever fished with in my little world have all the same things in common. They all have a positive energetic attitude about fishing and life in general. They have endless amounts of energy and like a lazier beam are focused on their target often having an appearance, "Like a duck on water". They all have a no quit mentality while they patiently wait for what's about to happen. They have a basic understanding of the movements and migrations of the species they seek and they are all excellent mappers!
While time is extremely important it's only part of what separates the really good "consistent" anglers from the rest. I have no doubt in a guy with the qualities listed above and him armed with the right knowledge that he will soon be "Really Good". For example look at young Cory Allen. |
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Posts: 620
Location: Seymour, WI | I love reading the responses from the most accomplished anglers on this post.
One thing that I'm suprised no one has mentioned yet is bait presentation. The best anglers that I know are very specialized in their bait presentation. They are using the same musky baits as all the other musky anglers, but they are much more precise in the way they present it. Through a combination of learning the water that they're fishing on and knowing how to put a bait where the fish are, they get bit more often. You can see this every year if you fish a musky tournament like the NCMO in Eagle River. Often the same guys win the tourney every yr and they do it using the same lures as everyone else, whether it be bulldawgs or jerkbaits or bucktails. The really good sticks that I've fished with present the lure differently than the guy that's just casting it out and reeling it in. At first glance the way they present a lure might not look all that different than the next guy, but it is different. By being on the water alot and kwowing the water extremely well they are able to get their baits just a little bit closer to the fish without fouling the bait on the bottom or in the weeds. This is an easy skill to talk about, but very difficult to perfect. That's what I think makes "that guy" so much better than the average Joe.
Grass |
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Posts: 129
| ToddM - 4/1/2015 1:07 PM
Awareness and your ability to think for yourself. This sport can be broken down into followers and leaders. Which one are you?
Time on the water plus the ingrediants above |
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Posts: 1220
| I wrote an article recently where I asked a bunch of what I think are excellent sticks (like what you are talking about here) what they thought about a certain point of fishing. With one possible exception, (he may be an old guy too-not too sure) they are all way younger than me, one is often referred to as a "kid" almost all the time. They are all way better than me too, some you could say don't even play in the same stadium. I sort of doubt that any of them have much more "time on the water" than me. And, even though I recognize my betters when I see them, I really don't have a complex about my fishing or feel that inferior. In fact, I really can catch a musky once in a while. But, all this "time on the water" stuff is giving me a bit of a queazy stomach. Put simply, if you enjoyed your time on the water, you had a good quality life, you lived it wisely....but that doesn't make you any kind of expert. It's what you learned in whatever time it took you to learn it that made you the angler that you are. I really wished I really started listening more years ago. Unfortunately, there are kids in their 20's who are not only younger, stronger and who posess a really nice head of hair, they will fish the pants off of me (and some of you too) it's just a fact. Sure, Tom Gelb's older than most, and maybe the best mind in the sport....but it's not his time on the water, it's simply that he took a lifetime of engineering expertise and applied it to his approach toward fishing. He was working hard the whole time. The only thing that comes purely from TIME ON THE WATER is skin cancer. |
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Posts: 558
| Each and every spot you fish always have the confidence that there is fish there to be had. That way you pay attention to every single cast. I always like to think i have a fish following evey single cast, keeps you pumped up. Stay positive is number 1 imo. Pound the water with your confidence lures, other wise you will be wasting casts changing lures when you could be making more casts out to where that next bite could be. Boat control also a big part. Just have fun, thats what puts fish in the boat.
Edited by Musky Face 4/2/2015 10:33 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | BrianF. - 4/2/2015 5:04 AM
"Ask 'why?' allot. Figure out the answers."
Why ask why? Muskies are as dumb as a stump. Not much to figure out. Throw a 2x4 and eventually you'll get bit. Time on the water. Those guys who catch fish are just lucky, that's all.
You can't be serious.
And Marty nailed it.
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Posts: 8782
| Marty, what you are eluding to is SMART time on the water. It's the time you spend trying to figure out what's going on because you have a desire to go out there next time and do better, and know more. Some guys just go out there and fish, and there's nothing wrong with that. I suspect that they enjoy their fishing just as much as the rest of us. Part of the game for me is looking at the box of 1,000 pieces and being able to put a few more pieces together at the end of the day or the week to get that much closer to the big picture. I'll never finish the puzzle, and that's okay. I'll likely never get as far as many have on getting the big picture together, and that's okay, too. Unless you're fishing a tournament it's not a competition. I just like to learn stuff, and I enjoy the challenge of outsmarting a fish.
They're pretty stupid, but they live under the water in a world we don't fully understand. We have to figure out what they are up to from above the water using something that doesn't move or act like a fish, and only looks like a fish to us. Being able to do that with any consistency is a pretty cool thing.
I was lucky to spend the majority of my fishing years alone out there just absorbing what happened when I caught fish and trying to figure out what went wrong when I didn't. Just me and the water and the fish. I had no magazines, no guides, no internet, no books, and no mentors. I think there were Saturday morning fishing shows back then, but I was too busy fishing to watch TV. I didn't really care what anyone else was doing as long as they were fishing somewhere else and I could be alone to figure out how to catch more fish.
I've gotten into the magazines and websites and seminars and guides and internet and such over the last ten years, and really tried to learn as much from others as possible during that time, and that's been a huge benefit. I've learned a lot from a lot of really great anglers and guides. The older I get, the less I care about what other people are doing or catching. It's fun to fish with old friends and have a few laughs. It's good to learn from others. But I will end this game just like I started it over 40 years ago. Just me and the water and the fish...
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| So....How many of you that posted are "that guy" ?
lots of arm chair quarterbacks but to really know it is to be it.
Nope...I'm definitely not "that guy". |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | "That Guy" can be anyone. "That Guy" for me may not be "That Guy" for you. I just hope that I'm "That Guy" for my two boys. And... an "arm chair quarterback" for you may not be an "armchair quarterback" for me. |
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Posts: 880
Location: New Berlin,Wisconsin,53151 | Some of the multiple post on this topic makes you wonder if these guys wives let them get out and fish? I agree with Junkman "IT'S TIME ON THE WATER"!
Netman |
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Location: oswego, il | Junkman said its not time on the water but what you do and learn from it. |
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Location: Hayward, WI | Lots of great thoughts and answers to this guys. It's grown more than I figured it would. Time on the water is certainly important, but Marty's last thread really said it well. Somebody that spends a little less, but thoughtful time on the water is likely to be way ahead of somebody that goes all day every day, but uses the same bait, in the same spot, at the same depth, etc. etc.
For myself, the hardest thing to know is how fast to fish a spot, or spots, and how to know when to change presentations, spot types, depths, etc. Expecting to catch a fish every few hours when doing the "right" things, it's hard to know when to experiment due to limited feedback. Fishing panfish gives a lot more feedback - can pretty much change things constantly till fish are found and start biting.
Most of the time, there isn't enough time to do it all in a day, and I think it's the guys that are very strong at narrowing down the pattern are the guys that really do well on a consistent basis. I generall have no problem catching fish when they are where I am fishing and willing to bite the baits I'm using. When they are somewhere else at a different depth, and need to be searched out and patterned - that's what seperates the men from the boys in my eyes.
A lot touched on paying attention and I think that's huge. Equally important is knowing what to do with the information (or sometimes lack of information) one is receiving and knowing what to do with it. I think that's one of the hardest parts, and might be nearly impossible to teach how to do that through a book, seminar, or online forum. I think the best of the best have developed good instincts and that goes a long ways.
Great information here. Hope to read some more.
Oh, regarding who is THAT guy. I'm not, or at least I sure don't feel like it most of the time. It's likely that some guys think they are THAT guy while they are not, and a lot of them that don't think they are THAT guy - really are, at least in other's eyes. Then again, what THAT guy is, really boils down to perception.
Tucker
Edited by curleytail 4/3/2015 11:17 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'That guy' is whomever is currently better at catching muskies under certain conditions (etc.) than I am. Once I learn and master what 'that guy' has figured out, then it's the next 'that guy'. It will never end. |
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| I'm not "that guy". Maybe I was that guy back in college when I didn't have a job and I could fish every day. I was sort of that guy when I had a job that generously allowed me to have 8 weeks of paid time off and every weekend to fish.
These days, I get to fish with "that guy" a few times a year, maybe for a week if I'm lucky. If I live long enough and I am really lucky, I'll get to retire and be that guy again one day. Hopefully I won;t be too senile to remember what I learned from "that guy" along the way.
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| ToddM - 4/3/2015 10:45 AM
Junkman said its not time on the water but what you do and learn from it.
Now that's awareness!  |
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Location: New Berlin,Wisconsin,53151 | Now thats funny, it still "Time on the Water" LOL |
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Location: Minnesota. | In my boat I'm "That Guy"...otherwise I'd take my toys and go home (w/my tail 'tween my legs!)
Heck I feel lucky every time get a hit! |
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Location: oswego, il | I am that guy, that ****ing guy, that mother ****ing guy over there. |
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| If I were to ever become that guy what would I do with all the excuses I have lined up in my brain? |
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| I really don`t ask that many questions anymore. Why ask why I kind of agree with. My approach is always the same. Every water no matter what because I do what I do. I could care less what anyone else is doing or patterns I might be missing. I want to do what I`m best at and let the fish come as they come. Those fisherman always looking for the hot bite or latest tecknique never seam to be on fish long and are spending most of there time looking for a pattern. Time on the water means nothing but time on the water. If you are fishing Dale Hollow and I`m fishing LSC I will get more fish in one day than you get all year. You have to judge your results on the waters you fish. Most great fisherman have one thing they are great at and a few things they are good at to fall back on. Can`t think of anybody I would rather run the boat than myself. |
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| Grass made a great point. Getting the baits closer to the fish and structure both casting and trolling is key. Probably the biggest key of all IMHO. Lots of people mess this up because they are afraid to foul up or snag a trolled bait on the bottom. |
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| I was called 'That guy' once...but it was in a police line up along a wall. Just kiddin'. |
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Location: oswego, il | Something muskyrat said kind of struck me. I very much prefer running the boat. I am sure the friends I fish with are sick of me telling them the adjustments they need to make when I am in the back of theirs--->there is that awareness again.
Edited by ToddM 4/4/2015 6:54 AM
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Location: Sauk City WI | Todd hit a good point about awareness and understanding what's happening around you. I also think the ability to change and adapt what you are doing with very little information. We are talking about a fish with a very low contact per hour rate so the ability to read every fish or situation I think is key. They're are a few people I fish with that are constantly sometime to try and find the pattern throughout the day while I'm am sort of opposite in that I find it hard to give up a pattern that I think sshould produce. I think it's the guys that seem to know exactly what to do based on very limited information that are ahead of the game. I'm not sure of that comes from experience or just a good understanding of the fish were after but that is where I'm trying to get better. That and be able to fish a wide variety of baits and presentations effectively and the willingness to give up on your favorite bait or presentation when it's not working is how I see it in my very amateur view. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | muskyrat - 4/4/2015 1:14 AM
I really don`t ask that many questions anymore. Why ask why I kind of agree with. My approach is always the same. Every water no matter what because I do what I do. I could care less what anyone else is doing or patterns I might be missing. I want to do what I`m best at and let the fish come as they come. Those fisherman always looking for the hot bite or latest tecknique never seam to be on fish long and are spending most of there time looking for a pattern. Time on the water means nothing but time on the water. If you are fishing Dale Hollow and I`m fishing LSC I will get more fish in one day than you get all year. You have to judge your results on the waters you fish. Most great fisherman have one thing they are great at and a few things they are good at to fall back on. Can`t think of anybody I would rather run the boat than myself.
Lord knows we shouldn't want to know know why a pattern worked, a fish was in a particular area at a particular time, a certain color pattern was hot and then not, why muskies showed up in shallow slop when the 'rules' say they should be deep basin..... and who said anything about the 'latest technique'?
Can't disagree more with the last statement. Most great anglers are ultra versatile, able to adapt quickly to new waters, changing conditions, and are far more than great at only one thing. One knows what one knows, and one doesn't know what one doesn't know. I want to know what I don't know.
I think some folks didn't get what I was saying by 'ask why'.
Why was the big fish I saw today where it wasn't yesterday?
Why did a certain technique work today and yesterday, but was dead last week...on the same water, under what appear to be the same conditions?
Why did I catch 6 fish over 40 one evening, and no fish at all the next?
Why when the wind switched slightly from the west to southwest did the fish go nuts for a half hour? Were the two related?
I'd think this is a never ending learning process, but that's me.
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| how to tune your baits. time on water and being observaent to season cylcles |
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Location: Minnesota. | I'll offer up a little bit of something that's quite new to me but most of you "really good guys" likely already know. It might get you closer to the "that guy" deally...
Last summer as well as a few summers before it, my son and I were working either a weed bar or a rock shelf, structure/cover stuff. "Good" holding stuff, we all know. Well I decided to turn around "180" and cast to open water. Deep, "unstructured"- and I got nailed!!! This really amazed me. Never expected it...
Happened now more than once. Last summer my son said "Dad, you ever see a fish out this far?" "Nope" I said. "Keep casting" as I turned around towards the lake-side. Ten casts later a "54" came in.
Food for thought. It should be obvious by now that I'll never be "that guy" cause stuff like this just doesn't fit into anything other than "Hey, you've been casting for 4 hours now, why not give this a try..."
Beats me. 35 yrs. casting now and I still get surprised. Humbling. And it's what keeps me pinned!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Why was the big fish I saw today where it wasn't yesterday?
Why did a certain technique work today and yesterday, but was dead last week...on the same water, under what appear to be the same conditions?
Why did I catch 6 fish over 40 one evening, and no fish at all the next?
Why when the wind switched slightly from the west to southwest did the fish go nuts for a half hour? Were the two related?
Well, what are the answers?? I think most of us ask those questions. It is the very few that have actually figured it out. Weekend warriors, like myself, often don't get to spend enough time on the water to dial into all the nuances. |
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| Well I guess I take a lot of my knowledge for granted. You do need to ask yourself some questions. Still if you watch a Bass Tourney for the most part guys look to do what they do. Billy Bob looks for docks because he is a dock fisherman. Tommy Ray fishes crankbaits so he looks for deeper water. That's the way it works. You want to play your game just like any sport. When I see somebody get more and bigger fish than me in my area I may try something new. Has not happened in twenty years. Also agree with Lester. After twenty plus years I can`t tell you why they bit when. Sometimes I think I know but other times it looks great according to everything my experience tells me and nothing. Sometimes I think it`s going to be a boat ride and I score. If I fish the hard every time I will get fish when they are biting. I have never experienced all the fish being anywhere other than the spawn. That's the only time of year I fish differently. After the turn over I hit some deeper water that had no fish during summer but the methods are the same. Just less line or more line. Deeper lip shallow lip. So all I really need to know is spawn post spawn and fall turnover. When I read things like you have to master the figure eight I laugh. Some guy on LSC has boated thousands of fish without ever doing a figure eight. How many big fish on the 40 acre shoal are caught on the figure eight? One every fifteen years maybe? Sure if your casting LOTW you should be proficient at the figure 8. I however will never sniff LOTW. I will be fishing the St. Lawrence on vacation where if your not trolling you are completely wasting your time. If someone has not come up with a better way in a hundred years why would I think I can? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Lester Neigard - 4/4/2015 7:22 PM
Why was the big fish I saw today where it wasn't yesterday?
Why did a certain technique work today and yesterday, but was dead last week...on the same water, under what appear to be the same conditions?
Why did I catch 6 fish over 40 one evening, and no fish at all the next?
Why when the wind switched slightly from the west to southwest did the fish go nuts for a half hour? Were the two related?
Well, what are the answers?? I think most of us ask those questions. It is the very few that have actually figured it out. Weekend warriors, like myself, often don't get to spend enough time on the water to dial into all the nuances.
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The answers are out there but one won't learn them if one doesn't ask the questions first and then try to solve the puzzles any way one can.
A short cut for some who don't 'have the time' is to fish with someone who does, and ask 'that guy' the question. That's been suggested already. But you still need to ask unless the situation happens the day you are out fishing with 'that guy' and you witness and learn something that makes you a better angler...something you didn't know.
Learn about the muskie's environment, and what the fish is actually capable of. That solves a bunch of stuff that's regularly believed that's pretty much bunk.
Learn how muskies relate to changes in that environment throughout the day, week, month, and year. Learn what they eat and where they eat. Learn about the fish they eat along those same lines. And so on.
The really good muskie anglers I know (that guy) figure out many of the answers because they work at solving the puzzle on...and importantly, off the water.
One can spend an enormous time on the water and not get many puzzles solved. it's entirely up to you.
OFM covers the best of the best in the competitive Bass angling world interviewing them before, during, and after Bassmaster Elite and FLW Tour events. The top anglers out there who regularly cash checks have to adapt to wildly differing conditions, environments, and more. Even the best of the best run into situations where they can't produce enough to cash a check, and don't have the answers. At that point it's too late for that tournament, and the term used is they 'got schooled'. Next time they will know what to do.
I don't think it's possible to know enough to not need to learn more. I find that to be the really enjoyable aspect of fishing, and it makes every fish I catch more enjoyable. Pretty much always have, but these days figuring out something that an unsolved mystery is, to me....pretty cool.
Unless you are happy with where you are, and that's fine.
By the way, muskyrat, if the question is already answered for 100 years, I'd say that one is solved. Wouldn't you?
'When I read things like you have to master the figure eight I laugh'. Well, get on over to LOTW or Eagle or Wabigoon or Lake George here near Rhinelander in all it's tiny 500 acre plus glory. You will stop laughing.
What you mention I see covering Walleye events where trolling is the rule big time. But Keith Kavajecz won a Cabela's National Walleye Tour event and his partner in The Next Bite took second on a traditional trolling bite water fishing SOOOOO far out of the box it's revolutionized the sport...in a baby step sort of way. Crazy adaptation, and a REALLY crazy approach. Here's the video:
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/videos/11.08.2014/7469/Shiver.Minn...
Listen to what Keith was doing to take the win. He describes the technique at the end of the video. Seriously, that's some crazy adaptation. And that is why they are so good at what they do. |
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| I hear all your saying. Certainly knowledge is power. I just think a guy could get pretty good just casting Suiks and Bucktails alone if that's all he wanted to do. As long as he picked waters that fit his presentation and style. Would not be important for that guy to know how to run a planer board mast system. My point is that I have always felt the angler being confident in what he is doing is often more important than having multiple presentation to try each day. Mark Windels fished only a yellow bucktail for a whole summer on LOTW and his results were about the same as every year. I don`t consider guides in this conversation as you had better be the guy if your guiding people. Also easier to fish lot of presentations when your at it every day. For weekend warriors (Myself included) I like to have something I`m great at and can take on the road to appropriate waters. Sure I do cast as most lakes close to my house are electric only. I`m not going to catch any records there though. Most of my serious fishing is done trolling because that's what I`m good at. The fish really don`t change either. For the most part they act the same year after year. There is always something to learn even if you use the same presentation for twenty years. There are always new spots to learn. That is one key to being that guy without being a full time guide. Being bold. In 1995 my partner and I fished Monksville for the first time after hearing fish have moved down from Greenwood. That resulted in some fantastic fishing. In 1996 I hired a guide now body ever heard of to take me fishing on a lake know body heard of. His name was Marc Thorpe. At the time people were fishing with well equipped guides on LOTW. Hear I was fishing with a guy who had no trolling motor, no Muskie net, a trim motor you had to hit with a wrench. On top of that he had never fish the lake I wanted to so he took me to the Ottawa river. Well we did horrible but I could tell he was real gung ho and was a guy I wanted to give more opportunities too. Well eventualy he checked out the lake and called me. Our first day. 53 1/2" 50" 49" 48" 46 1/2" 41 1/2" and a monster 55" plus lost on a big jump. No body had that lake on their radar and still nobody does. New opportunities like that pop up all the time. I can think of lakes in N.J. no body fishes that are chocked full of Muskies. Soon I will be checking out Champlain. New waters and new areas of heavily fished waters often provide unpressured fish and that can make a difference. |
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| Listen to primus while you fish, it makes you better. Im dead serious! |
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Location: Hudson,WI | I honestly use to SUCK!! I would go one year and catch 1 or maybe 2 fish for the entire year, or maybe none. Then I decided to seek out a guide to teach me. I spent a TON of money fishing with guides the last 3 years, but if you wanna play then you gotta pay. It was honestly the best investment I've ever made!! I've become friends with several of the guides out there, and I've learned a TON of stuff. Now I've consistently caught 10 fish in a season the last couple seasons, despite not being on the water as much as I'd like. I know if I was out on the water more, I'm sure my numbers would be better, but I'm A LOT better than I use to be. It was the best investment I've ever made!! |
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