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Posts: 23
| Hi Guy's-
I have a question about what I was told by a technician at Interstate battery...
Here goes: I have 4 batteries (2) 27-group trolling motor batts, (2) 29 group 1 for big motor/accessories 1 for kicker/power steering pump. All batt's purchased 6/09
after every time out since new I charged the batteries no matter how long I used them. I have 2 on board Minn-Kota MK-220 chargers 10A per Bank charging rate. I average 10-15 times out on the water per season.
After last season, when I went to charge the Batts for the final time I noticed both 27's & (1) 29 had spit acid. I took them out cleaned them up & charged them up all showing fully charged on my charger & meter. I put a trickle charge on them all in the middle of Feb & all were showing fully charged after 15 min on the trickle charger on each battery.
When I looked at the batts on Thursday 2 more batts spit acid again. I took all 4 in to get load tested & (2) were completely discharged & the other (2) failed the load test. Interstate told me the plates were burned up on the batts causing them to spit & the reason for this is I'm charging at too fast a rate on the 10 amp charger.
They said NEVER charge any battery at over 2 amps. Especially the AMG glass matt as this will just solidify the gel inside & burn the battery up in an instant.
They say if I use a 2 amp charger & nothing more, the batteries will last 10+ years.
This sounds good but just about every on board charger is 10amps or more as time is the essence when it comes to charging the way the chargers are advertised. So this is not computing with me?
Interstate told me save my $$ on expensive AMG type batts & get the regular lead/acid type. They are telling me to just charge at a slower rate & my life expectancy will double?? I'm CONFUSED...Any thoughts by the battery experts out there???
Thank You
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | He's full of beans. As to what happened to your batts I don't know, but the last Interstate I had lasted exactly 16 months, and of course warranty is 12. |
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Posts: 1144
Location: Minnesota. | Doesn't make any sense to me at all per what he says on the charging rates. Deep cycles need the "push" to deep charge them and then they trickle out to top off. This is what I've always read but I'm certainly no battery expert. And that's worked for me for only 3 decades.
And if my batteries were 6 yrs. old I'd toss 'em and buy new ones w/o wondering.
Good luck with this though. I hate elect. issues myself.
Jeremy. |
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Posts: 2894
Location: Yahara River Chain | I know when I had one 12V battery and charged a dead battery with a 6 amp charger would not fully charge the battery overnight. Which made a very short outing the next day at a trolling motor only lake.
I'd get a different place to get batteries, what he said may be true with your batteries lasting longer, but your fishing would be a day or two tops as a 2amp charger would never get the job done for days.
As for AGM batteries, I like them and I had one AC Delco last me 9 yrs.
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| This sounds like a charger putting out too high a voltage at inappropriate times during a charge, resulting in heating of the battery electrolyte and then it expands and leaks out.
A good charger should be able to measure how much current the battery is drawing and control the voltage to appropriate levels, and adjust it at different stages during the charging cycle; higher voltages at the beginning; lower towards the end, until it's "trickling".
Here's a good read: http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartcharge.html
Is your charger a "good quality" one?
Edited by Chemi 3/31/2015 10:13 AM
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Posts: 114
| Just a FYI i was tole 6 amp max for deep cycle and 10 amp max for AGM from the interstate people. so it sounds like they don't have their fact straight, but it does sound like the slower the charge the better battery life you will get. |
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Posts: 271
Location: davis,IL | If you see acid leaking out of the top of the battery you are probably overcharging it. A slow low amp charge is best, but a battery only has so many charges in it. I have had my batteries for 6 years now, I do not charge after every trip out unless I run the troller hard. If I'm running for multiple days in a row (fishing Canada) I'll usually charge every 2 or 3 days depending on how hard I run it. I have a 17' Crestliner with a 74#(24v) Minn Kota, If I run a couple three days in low wind where I have it set to low (20 to 30 %) I'll go a few days. If running heavy wind all day I'll charge it. I used to have a 12v 55# minn kota and had to charge every day. The 24v troller runs much better than the 12v did.
Edited by muskydope 3/31/2015 4:36 PM
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Posts: 271
Location: davis,IL | Also if you check chargers you will find some are not made for new technology batteries ( spiral, agm). So make sure what type of batteries your charger is made for, as the charging cycle is different for the new batteries. I have a MK220 on my boat and it stated that it is only for charging regular lead acid batteries, and not the new technology batteries.
Edited by muskydope 3/31/2015 4:42 PM
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Posts: 299
Location: Nowheresville, MN | Deep cycles should be charged after every use, no matter the amount of discharge.
I also think that technician isn't very technical.
I also second that perhaps your charger is not for AGMs and that was your issue. What year is the charger? |
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Posts: 23
| Hi Guy's-
Thanks for the responses...My chargers are 4 yrs old & the newer digital type MK-220. It is labeled on the charger they can be used for various types of batteries including AGM batteries. I called Minn-Kota to verify & they confirmed that my chargers will charge ALL batteries except a Gel Cell battery.
I understand that my batteries are 6 yrs old & batteries have only so many charges in them but only using the boat 10-15 times a yr on the water seems like they should be lasting longer? At this rate, guides who fish 200-250 days a yr wouldn't even get a full year out of their batteries which I assume isn't true? Because 3 of the 4 batteries spit acid & they are on different chargers ( trolling motor batt's on 1 charger & big motor/kicker batt's on the other)but are doing the same thing I'm assuming the chargers aren't the problem? I'm just trying to figure out the validity of the guys statement? I am beginning to believe the AGM type really aren't worth the extra $$ unless charged correctly but no one can agree on what the correct way is???
If anyone else that has more technical knowledge about this & would like to respond I would love to hear your opinion & whether I'm over-thinking this whole thing?
Thanks
Edited by fig8 3/31/2015 10:18 PM
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| I have 2 Cabala's AGM batteries and I've been charging them with a 2-bank 10/10 amp Guest onboard charger, one for 5 years now and the other one for one year. The charger came with the boat in 8/08, so it's not new. I charge them every time I use them, no matter how much I've used them, and I fish at least one day a week from May to ice-up and haven't had a problem. Both are still in excellent shape, so I think the "2-amp max" statement isn't correct, when everything is working properly.
I also agree that leaving a battery discharged is a bad idea. When a new battery is fully charged you have lead metal plates surrounded by a sulfuric acid solution. The electricity is produced by the lead metal and sulfuric acid reacting together to form lead sulfate, initially dissolved in the solution; this only happens when electrons are allowed to flow in an external circuit. Leaving a battery sitting around in a discharged state can result in hard lead sulfate crystals forming (which takes time) either on the lead plates or in the sediment trap; these crystals can eventually kill a battery by shorting between plates. They do not easily re-dissolve, so they can accumulate over time, and each accumulation reduces the capacity of the battery. The best thing to do is to charge it every time you use it, minimizing the amount of time the crystals can form. Your car battery gets charged every time you run the engine, too, and good quality car batteries last for years doing this.
Any good charger monitors the voltage and current (and ambient temperature) during a charge and will regulate things to prevent charging too fast, or overcharging, and have at least three "phases": a constant current phase at the beginning, followed by a decreasing current phase once the battery reaches maximum voltage, and then a "float" or trickle phase. If your battery is only slightly discharged, your charger should sense it and switch to the appropriate phase straightaway.
See http://www.batteryuniversity.com/_img/content/clead1.jpg
If your chargers are working properly, I have no idea why your batteries puked electrolyte. |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | OK- here goes! Get yourself a new battery expert! There is no gell in a AGM battery, only in gell-cells which are not commonly used in marine applications.
Really, you want to know what your chargers are doing and you need a digital volt meter. Some chargers have an automatic equalize voltage and timer where the charger places a higher voltage on the battery for a specific time period, usually 8-24hrs. Ask the manufacturer, if that is the case, its likely your charger is killing your AGM battery. A good charger will have selectable settings for wet-cells, where equalize is OK, but you have to check the electrolyte levels periodically.
However, automatic equalizing your AGM is not a good thing, as it will cause excessive gassing and dryout the battery, e.g. because AGM's are valve regulated lead-acid (VRLA) batteries. They are sealed/no spill, but have a pressure release vents where the excessive gas (hydrogen & oxygen) escapes - meaning the H2O component (water) in the electrolyte escapes. Once its gone, the battery vents will spit sulfphuric acid, game over!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfuric_acid
Connect a digital voltmeter to the battery, turn on or plug in the chargger, if the voltage goes above ~ 13.8V, the charger either has a automatic equalize or it is not properly setup or its broken!
I don't know of any charger that can automatically detect if you have a wet-cell or a AGM connected to it, if the charger manufacturer states that, ask them to explain how its feasible from an engineering perspective!
Have fun!
Al
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Posts: 5874
| Not sure what you mean by a technician at Interstate Battery. Sales guy at a store that sells Interstate? The guy that installs them? or did you actually call Interstate and ask for Tech Support? Either way, the guy you talked to is just wrong.
Wet cells should be charged at no more than 10A. It will take a 20A rate, but the higher the current, the more heat at the post connection, and that will, over time weaken the battery. Heat is not a friend of batteries.
AGM batteries have much lower internal resistance, and can be charged at a much higher rate without the heat buildup of the wet cell.
AGM batteries are sensitive to overcharging. FLoat voltage should not exceed 2.30 volts per cell, or 13.8 volts for 12V battery. Some chargers can be configured for the different battery types. Others cannot, and I know of no charger that can sense whether a battery is AGM or wet cell. |
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Posts: 457
Location: Minneconia | Dual Pro claims they are approved for both AGM and wet cell? They are not selectable |
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Posts: 5874
| DualPro touts DeltaVolt Intuitive Charge technology. If you read the manual, there are procedures to follow for properly maintaining your batteries in between discharge cycles. Another nice feature Of DualPro is they are repairable. Not sure on MinnKota or Guest. |
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Posts: 84
| That guy told you not to get AGM batteries most likely because he doesn't sell them and he wants you to buy his. AGM costs more but they last longer. Everybody knows that. |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Its not true that AGM's last longer, they are just easier for the average fisherman to use. Every battery has a design life (3-5 years) and cycle life (100-200 full discharges) - once it hits ~10.5V its fully disharged. They also need to be recharged as soon as possible after discharge.....DO NOT LEAVE THEM SIT IN A DISCHARGED CONDITION!! Leaving them even partially discharged for days or weeks is a recipe for new batteries - the typical manufacturing warranty will not cover this, meaning its failure to follow the manufacturer's instructions a.k.a abuse!
Battery resellers love you guys who abuse batteries, because you always blame the battery and the manufacturer! Going and buying another manufacturer's product will not fix your problem.... The vast majority of battery failures are related to improper charging.
Have fun!
Al |
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Posts: 23
| Thanks to everyone who answered my question. I decided I am going to replace my batteries with the the regular acid lead type. This is an Interstate distributor that I have been dealing with & YES he does carry an Interstate AGM battery for $325 a pop as well as the blue Optima's for $250 a pop. He's not pushing the AGM because in HIS opinion they aren't worth the money. I am looking at it like this...I got 6 years out of these regular deep cycle batteries & apparently that is a long time in battery life years. I just thought that only being on the water 10-15 times a year I would get more life? I will continue to charge the batteries after each use with my on board chargers( like I have been for the previous 6 years) hopefully with another 6 years or more of use before I have to replace them. Also, I will be able to replace all 4 batteries 2 more times for the price of 4 AGM's...That works for me. Thanks again |
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Posts: 455
| Far from an expert. Always trickle charge unless you are fishing again soon. When you do use on board charger check it often. If you hear sizzle it`s toasting your battery. What I think happens is the batteries get to a point they won`t hold the full charge and the chargers keeps charging. This cooks them. The slower the charge the easier it is on the battery. |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | LOL- $325 for an 12V AGM, thats insane unless they weigh about 150-200lbs each. Check your charger voltages, If its higher than 13.8V w/ digital voltmeter, the charger is not set up for AGM's or its wrong charger for them - get regular wet-cells and check the electrolyte levels periodically - refill w/ distilled water ONLY!
I buy my AGM's and wet-cell batteries from Walmart, because there's usually a Walmart around, even in Canada.
AGM's do have an advantage for a starting battery, they can deliver more instantaneous current/cold-cranking amps versus a wet-cell... thats why I have a dual purpose AGM for my starting battery and electronics. That's also why your vehicle typically comes with an AGM starting battery....
Most marine battery chargers are float chargers/automatic trickle chargers. Its a matter of symantics...trickle charger versus float chargers -> Do not trickle charge during storage, you are asking for trouble and will be aging the battery...its complicated. A real trickle charger only, cannot recharge a standard lead-acid battery properly.
But OK, go ahead its your money. Believe all the urban legends you want, both Shep & I know of what we speak....if you can hear sizzling you have destroyed the battery!
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 4/4/2015 8:44 AM
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Battery Charging-does this make sense