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Posts: 1000
| Question - is it legal to cast in MN before the season if I have no hooks on my lures? After 9 months of winter just casting is therapeutic. That and you'd be on a pattern when the season starts.
Thanks! |
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Posts: 1283
| Or you could just go "pike fishing" |
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Posts: 2097
| I am sure if a dnr official would catch you in the act he/she would care less if there was hooks or not. |
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Posts: 1000
| So if I throw a glide bait with no hooks that would be illegal? |
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Posts: 2097
| Its up to you. Why leave it up to the discretion of one lawman, he/she may be having a bad day and won't listen to reason.
Edited by cave run legend 3/14/2015 12:26 PM
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Location: North St. Paul, MN | Here's an idea...call the DNR and ask? Seems logical. |
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Location: The desert | tolle141 - 3/14/2015 12:19 PM
So if I throw a glide bait with no hooks that would be illegal?
Yes. |
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Posts: 3
| I would think that would still not be a good idea.
The main thing I could see being a problem for you is if a C.O. puts in the time and effort to respond to someones call about a guy "pike fishing". They could be a bit irritable after they show up and see no hooks on the lure. It seems like every year people become more aware of "pike fishing" and so I would say your chances of getting called on could be pretty high depending on which body of water you are on.
I go to a small lake near my house that has no muskies in it and I cast off the dock to get my arms and back into muskie shape for the season. Obviously not near as fun as going to a lake where you could see some follows and strikes, but I would say you are much safer from having a bad run in with a C.O. |
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Posts: 1144
Location: Minnesota. | tolle141 - 3/14/2015 12:19 PM
So if I throw a glide bait with no hooks that would be illegal?
As mentioned...YES!!! |
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Posts: 1638
Location: Minnesota | As long as the pike season is open you can cast your glide baits. It is frond on but there is no law saying what a pike lure is an what a musky lure is .my biggest pike , walleye and small mouth came when I was tossing musky baits. |
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Location: Hayward, WI | I would not do it. Throw some smaller baits for pike, or buy a spinning rod and catch some walleyes or smallies.
If I wanted the practice & conditioning, I'd go to a lake that has no muskies in it. Then you'd be just fine. |
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Posts: 3147
| Why go to a lake at all????
If you just want to cast for the fun of it, try out your new baits. Test new rods ,reels tackle, find a indoor swimming pool,lots of rec centers etc if you ask them will let you do it for free.
Also
This is your best option just over the MInn border is Clear lake in Iowa open for musky and the way the spring is going maybe not long for ice. Clear is stocked and If you don't have the boat ready yet I know of one very good guide who knows the lake well who you can go with.
Edited by happy hooker 3/15/2015 9:25 AM
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Location: Miltona | I think that would be illegal and considered "targeting" because even though there are no hooks there is a remote possibility of landing a fish. I'm sure I'm not the only person on this site who has caught a muskie on a sucker without hooking it. |
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Posts: 153
Location: MN | Lobby your legislators to open tiger muskie lakes when northern fishing opens. |
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Location: Yahara River Chain | Yes illegal to fish for out of season - even without hooks. The reason its closed is during spawning and why mess with them? Leave them alone and let them do their thing and hopefully they are successful in that effort to, not letting them waste energy chasing baits without hooks.
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Location: Leech Lake, Walker MN | That's right WHY mess with them !!!, |
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Posts: 153
Location: MN | Our MN DNR has said many times the muskie program would not survive without their stocking efforts. They have said that there is very little natural reproduction. If these are true statements then what does it matter?
I believe that a spawning muskie will not chase baits anyway and that spawning is done here in central MN before the general opener. ( walleye and northern May 9th this year I believe)
Not trying to upset anyone just asking the question. |
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Posts: 1220
| I belong to a pool and use that too. It's quite helpful to really know what a bait does with pauses, jerks, twitches. Many bait also clearly fail to perform as expected, only zig, never zag,crank crooked, act funny about advertised depth, or at the wort, simply blow out |
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Posts: 158
| If you want to cast muskie baits before the season just to cast them, go to a lake with no muskies, then you have nothing to worry about.
Edited by Shoot2Kill 3/15/2015 9:37 PM
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Location: Home of the 2016 World Series Champion Cubs | Get in your car and drive south. Illinois and Kentucky are putting muskies in the boat as we speak. LEGALLY. |
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Posts: 1000
| Guys - thanks for the response. Was just wondering if it was legal to hit up the lake on an occasional weeknight to get some feedback from the fish for when the season does open. After 18 responses I think I'll stick to casting my gear at non-muskie lakes to get in shape for the season.
To the guy throwing his stuff in the pool, that chlorine can't be good for your gear?
Edited by tolle141 3/15/2015 11:22 PM
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Posts: 1220
| Hey Tolle141,
All due respect.....but are you serious about the little bit of chorine in a pool? Actually, my club uses a "cold water filtering system" with no clorine....but if it didn't, it's an infinitely less damaging environment than many of the lakes I fished. What you really want to think about is the clorinated compounds in smokestacks and the smoke blowing in the wind above your lake when it begins to rain. The rain washes the smoke out of the sky and into your lake. There are lakes without a road access where all the fish have died for that reason! Some people call that a bunch of horse crap....others call it ACID RAIN! In the meantime, try out your crankbaits and gliders in a swimming pool....and I'd say, "You'll likely catch more fish if they are tracking the way they are supposed to!" |
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Location: Yahara River Chain | tolle141 - 3/15/2015 10:58 PM
To the guy throwing his stuff in the pool, that chlorine can't be good for your gear?
I doubt it as Cl2 dissipates rather quickly. BUT it is heck on live bait.  |
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Location: Alex or Alek? | Like stated above just go to a lake without skies and you should be fine. In MN right now technically you cant even say your fishing for pike since everything is closed, i dont think the CO would believe your fishing for panfish... |
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Posts: 69
| Go target something else, it will be fun and if you like to eat fish it may be quite fruitful. Also, learning some of the seasonal patterns of other fish such as panfish, suckers, walleyes, etc. may help you become a better musky fisherman. I love musky fishing as much as the next guy, but there are so many great species and types of fishing out there to limit yourself to just muskies. And since musky season is closed, there is no better way to keep your game sharp and keep from going stir crazy then to get on the water after something else.
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Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished | tolle141 - 3/14/2015 12:19 PM
So if I throw a glide bait with no hooks that would be illegal?
---Hooks or not, fishing for musky out of season is illegal.
Just target big pike to pass the time
Edited by FAT-SKI 3/16/2015 1:53 PM
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Posts: 1000
| Junkman - 3/16/2015 9:02 AM
Hey Tolle141,
All due respect.....but are you serious about the little bit of chorine in a pool? Actually, my club uses a "cold water filtering system" with no clorine....but if it didn't, it's an infinitely less damaging environment than many of the lakes I fished. What you really want to think about is the clorinated compounds in smokestacks and the smoke blowing in the wind above your lake when it begins to rain. The rain washes the smoke out of the sky and into your lake. There are lakes without a road access where all the fish have died for that reason! Some people call that a bunch of horse crap....others call it ACID RAIN! In the meantime, try out your crankbaits and gliders in a swimming pool....and I'd say, "You'll likely catch more fish if they are tracking the way they are supposed to!"
I take it your job is related to the pool/chlorine industry? lol I do take my equipment seriously. I wouldn't be in this sport if I didn't. |
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Posts: 285
Location: NE Wisconsin | Does anyone know of anyone in any state who did not admit to targeting muskies and released all muskies, and was ticketed for muskies out of season and, fought it in the court system and lost?
In WI, possession proves intent. In other words, if you do not have a muskie in possession, and DO NOT admit to targeting Muskie's, there is nothing wardens can do.
I have asked many wardens including their lawyer in Madison and the above was the answer I always got. |
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Posts: 3147
| I'm guessing you would get away with it. But how bout just doing things the right way the MInn muskies see enough pressure do we really want them conditioned before the season even opens,,,The guy who observes the rules who rushes down to the boat landing at midnight on the opener so he can have first crack at the skis gets screwed.
Targeting muskies before the season is just a "me first everybody else second" attitude the same has someone who thinks they can butt ahead of people in line at a movie,restaurant or event. |
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Location: Yahara River Chain | I use to fish the Ont walleye opener on a popular muskie chain and we often get a muskie on our Rapala cranks or jig and minnow and my partner wanted to take pics of these skies. When he asked if i wanted a picture of a muskie I caught, I told him I didn't want any evidence on my camera that would give a warden a reason to give me a ticket. After that he didn't want anymore skies pics either. |
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Location: MN | You cannot be charged for being a bad fisherman and it is impossible to prove the fisherman's intent. You could go toss musky baits right now (pike and musky both closed) and as long as you tell the warden you are fishing for panfish you are legal. If anyone disagrees with that I would be interested to read the court case in which someone was charged doing so. I have asked multiple CO's this question because I have seen it happen so often and I always get the same response.
Personally I see no harm in casting baits with no hooks but as you can there are those here who think it's wrong. I think they are just worried you are going to smarten up "their" fish or have an advantage come opener.
I would never target an out of season species with hooks, even if you can get away with it, and I am sure you as well as most folks here have the same ethics. |
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Location: The desert | Nershi - 3/16/2015 5:17 PM
You cannot be charged for being a bad fisherman and it is impossible to prove the fisherman's intent. You could go toss musky baits right now (pike and musky both closed) and as long as you tell the warden you are fishing for panfish you are legal. If anyone disagrees with that I would be interested to read the court case in which someone was charged doing so. I have asked multiple CO's this question because I have seen it happen so often and I always get the same response.
Personally I see no harm in casting baits with no hooks but as you can there are those here who think it's wrong. I think they are just worried you are going to smarten up "their" fish or have an advantage come opener.
I would never target an out of season species with hooks, even if you can get away with it, and I am sure you as well as most folks here have the same ethics.
Please, please, please, oh pretty please, go try this. |
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Location: MN | Why try it? I've seen others do right it in front of CO's and not get ticketed.
If you think it's illegal please find me a court case where someone said they were targeting an open species but got ticketed and charged because the CO and judge assumed their intent was to target a closed species due to the tackle used. It happens every year so there should be plenty of court cases right?
Or maybe you can show me in the regs where it says what type and size of baits can be used to target what species.
The question was about legality not ethics. Legal, yes if you don't admit what you are truly targeting. Ethically, obviously not.
Edited by Nershi 3/16/2015 6:31 PM
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Location: Minnesota | Last year I was up on mile lace lake memorial weekend. My mother was dragging a lazy Ike I was using a mepps magnum musky killer . Cought one 42 inch musky .half hour later dnr stop me checked license and asked me how I was doing. told him I caught one muskie and that was it. he then asked what I was fishing for and I told him Pike.he told me have a nice day and he moved on to the next guy |
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Location: The desert | If the original poster goes out prior to May 9th and throws musky baits and claims he is fishing panfish prior to the May 9th opener, I can 200% guarantee he would be ticketed,except on LOTW/rainy.
Obviously, once game fish are open there is nothing stopping this. But I don't believe that is when the original poster is talking about. |
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Posts: 3147
| So I have a question??? Along these same lines how would you ever prove someone is intentionally snagging fish??'? If some one is throwing a big bulldawg or suick or Jake in shallow water to the same spot over and over obviously seeing something and ripping it back,,,are they working the lure or are they obviously snagging???even if they snag the fish snap a quick picture of their illegal trophy and put it back like th law says to do with a snagged fish. Because some of you are saying that the CO judgement doesn't matter if he witnesses it..
Edited by happy hooker 3/16/2015 7:08 PM
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Location: Minneconia | The fact that this is even being debated is discouraging. Tolle I would try to follow the spirit of the law vs trying to find a loophole around the letter of the law. The season is in place for a purpose whether spawning success is minimal or not. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I'm confused how can you be fishing if your not using FISH HOOKS |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | horsehunter - 3/16/2015 7:33 PM
I'm confused how can you be fishing if your not using FISH HOOKS
You are still fishing....... Hooks or not.... I know guys that pre fish Tourneys without hooks, and they still boated fish,.. It was Rubber and the fish wouldn't let go.
Just leave the resource alone until the Legal Day. That way the Muskies won't be bothered.
Common Sense...... |
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| If you're casting a lure, how can you call that anything BUT fishing?
I'm sure there are guys out there "pike fishing" before the opener, and the CO's probably don't want the hassle of dealing with them.
But there are others who know what's going on, and will watch you until you do that first figure 8, and then you're done.
Between the muskie T-shirt, the MI sticker on your boat, the musky this-and-that on your truck, and a boat full of musky gear? Good luck!
If you can look across the lake and identify who is out there musky fishing, what makes you think the wardens don't know better?
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| i do not target game out of legal seasonal regulations. But... What do the guys who commented on this post per spawning reasons feel about IA and IL lakes being open to Muskie fishing very shortly? Or any game fish season open during spawning? I'll be fishing the rainy very shortly; for spawning walleyes during legal season.
Edited by bllhogg 3/16/2015 11:30 PM
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| Nersh. You are correct that there is no statute that defines what a muskie lure versus a crappie lure is. That being said Peace and Conservation officers are allowed to use discretion during their encounters with us. They could write us a ticket for throwing a cowgirl, or a 7 inch jerk bait, even if we said we where fishing for panfish.
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Location: oswego, il | Muskies in illinois spawn but not successfully. This is a silly debate, one of the silliest ever on this site.
Answer to the question, find a second interest, it's not that hard to find something to occupy your time.
Now what we should be debating:
If you put an anal vent on your lure do fish find it more real or you the anal vent?
Edited by ToddM 3/17/2015 7:05 AM
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Location: MN | Sure they can write you a ticket but it isn't going to hold up in court. There is just no way to prove intent unless you admit to it.
Pointerpride like I said I have seen it happen right in front of a co when only panfish and rough fish were open. One time a guy was throwing a large daredevil and the other time someone was throwing a 6 inch stick bait. No tickets were issued.
Happy hooker I don't find your example of snagging fish relevant because snagging fish is an illegal method of fishing. Targeting panfish and rough fish with bulldogs, suicks or hookless baits for that matter is not illegal tackle or method.
Edited by Nershi 3/17/2015 7:17 AM
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Posts: 255
| Stupid debate. Shouldn't do it. Sure there are loopholes you can get through, but intent is the whole issue. The guy wants to see fish, cast for fish, and would love it if a fish hit. I think that is what the legal fishing season is for. Wait for an opener somewhere.
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| Nersh
I"ll admit I'm no legal expert it sounds like what your saying is it all boils down to confession and physical evidence?? A sworn officers account doesn't matter?? also then how do cops write tickets for U-turns,loitering,jaywalking when there's no physical evidence to bring to court or a confession.
In any case I want the CO"s to write a citation for somebody obviously targeting muskies. Even if it doesn't stick the offender will have to take the time and hassle and possibly time off from work to show up in court which may discourage them from doing it again. |
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Posts: 5161
| This fish was caught on a phantom by Irish Esox .So why can't you fish for trophy panifish using big lures?I can't download the biggest crappie I have ever seen .0723
Edited by 0723 3/17/2015 9:16 AM
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Location: MN | happy hooker - 3/17/2015 8:34 AM
Nersh
I"ll admit I'm no legal expert it sounds like what your saying is it all boils down to confession and physical evidence?? A sworn officers account doesn't matter?? also then how do cops write tickets for U-turns,loitering,jaywalking when there's no physical evidence to bring to court or a confession.
In any case I want the CO"s to write a citation for somebody obviously targeting muskies. Even if it doesn't stick the offender will have to take the time and hassle and possibly time off from work to show up in court which may discourage them from doing it again.
The difference is all of the things you listed are illegal. It is not illegal to target certain fish with certain tackle. There is just no way to prove intent unless it is admitted. Again you can't be ticketed for being a poor fisherman.
I don't want people targeting out of season fish any more than the next guy but I do not want authorities issuing tickets that aren't going to stick in court. Waste of taxpayers money.
Agreed stupid arguement. I just thought I'd share my opinion since I've talked with several co's on the subject since I see it happening so often on certain bodies of water.
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Posts: 1000
| I'm amazed this engaged so many people. I think my questions have been answered fully. Thanks for the help.
Q1. Can I cast musky lures out of season fi they have no hooks because I want to?
A. Do it on a pike lake after May 9th and you're good
Q2. Is casting hookless muskie lures on muskie lakes prior to the season legal?
A. No answer straight from the book (yet). You can risk the mood of the CO and spend fishing time figuring it out in court.
Just to be clear about my second question, I'm not looking to mess with spawning fish. I care about this resource as much as you do. Being relatively new to this sport, I was just wondering if there was some way I could legally locate the fish earlier so I didn't have to start from scratch in June. Throwing lures with hooks and saying I'm chasing pike is not ethical or responsible. Throwing six inch lures and saying I'm chasing panfish is just stupid. Throwing hookless lures seems like a gray area with a lot of risk. |
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Location: MN | Throwing hookless lures seems like a gray area with a lot of risk.
If you throw a hookless toy boat you should be okay. |
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| Tolle, the fish you locate in preseason are not going to be in the same place come June. |
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Location: oswego, il | Toy boat toy boat toy boyoat toy boy, I can't type it either. |
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| Hey MR. Ramsey,
If you're going to make fun of my partner with one of the many photos I know you have......first, you have to learn how to get the photo to show up in the post. Oh yea, I forgot what day it is, (Saint Patty's Day) probably no way your fingers are going to hit the right key. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA GO GREEN ALL DAY LONG (the other days, Green and Gold! |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | Junkman - 3/17/2015 2:22 PM
Hey MR. Ramsey,
If you're going to make fun of my partner with one of the many photos I know you have......first, you have to learn how to get the photo to show up in the post. Oh yea, I forgot what day it is, (Saint Patty's Day) probably no way your fingers are going to hit the right key. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA GO GREEN ALL DAY LONG (the other days, Green and Gold!
He's a white sox fan Marty, you have to make some allowances for that |
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Posts: 3147
| Muskies Are Attracted to toy boats,,in fact it's a great pattern,,,a kid used to rent remote control sailboats on lake Harriet in MInneapolis lhe had about 4-5 going in the same waters all day long on the weekends and there were always muskies in that area fired up. Then the wonderful city kicked that poor kid out for not having a vending permit and no more hot spot. |
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| Marty I will send it to you .Maybe you can post it.That was one of the greatest catches I have ever seen....0723 |
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Posts: 5161
| dfkiii - 3/17/2015 3:57 PM
Junkman - 3/17/2015 2:22 PM
Hey MR. Ramsey,
If you're going to make fun of my partner with one of the many photos I know you have......first, you have to learn how to get the photo to show up in the post. Oh yea, I forgot what day it is, (Saint Patty's Day) probably no way your fingers are going to hit the right key. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA GO GREEN ALL DAY LONG (the other days, Green and Gold!
He's a white sox fan Marty, you have to make some allowances for that
Kind of an uneventful St.Pats sewer backed up waiting for the water jetter.Happy St.Pats everybody. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Geez. |
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Casting with no hooks?