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| Let's try this again. I see the last thread on this Wisconsin trolling topic got pulled. I'd like this thread to stay on topic and remain civil; but spirited is ok.  As previously stated and per my observation, this article - http://dnr.wi.gov/news/releases/article/?id=3221 - seems somewhat recent (the red 'EDITOR'S ADVISORY' at the top is dated 2/10/2015) despite the original May 28/2014 date at the top of the article. So, based ONLY WHAT YOU SEE IN THIS ARTICLE (link above), let's discuss. |
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| Based on what I DIDN'T see in this article, the definition of trolling and/or position fishing has not been addressed or change. IMO, at the very least, the definition of both needs to be included along with the proposed rule change. These definitions - however YOU define them - has been in question EVERY TIME they've been re-written/clarified. |
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| But, based on what I DID see in the article, the proposed rule change implies that 3-line trolling would be allowed in most of the state (in the 55 counties where trolling is currently permitted) while only 1-line trolling would be allowed on the water-bodies not allowing trolling currently (in the remaining 17 counties - those are listed in the article). This seems cut-and-dried and easy to understand - or does it... (Is it 1-line trolling or 1-line PERIOD?)
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| The article DOES clearly stated our goal as muskie fisherman who would like to cast artificial lures while using suckers at the same time:
"One key goal of the proposal, sought by musky anglers, is to legalize the practice of trailing live bait behind a boat, while casting with another rod. Under current rules, trailing a sucker or other minnow behind the boat while under power, however briefly, is considered trolling."
But the article makes no mention about the impact of the proposed rule change in those water-bodies where 1-line trolling will be allowed. Optimistically, it may imply that in those 1-line trolling water-bodies, you can use 1 sucker per person with 2 suckers maximum per boat while at the same time allowing all boat occupants to cast. Is that a safe assumption? Or could the proposed rule change mean that in those water-bodies where 1-line trolling is allowed, you're only allowed 1-line PERIOD? And if that's the case it would imply 1 sucker per person with 2 suckers maximum per boat OR casting by each person in the boat (but NOT casting AND the use of a sucker by the same person). What about bluegill fishing. Would 2 or 3 rods per person be allowed on those 1-line trolling water-bodies as long as you're anchored (or drifting without the trolling motor deployed)? (That's a common practice by some panfisherman.)
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| I really love the spring hearing advisory question #32 on page 51 (http://dnr.wi.gov/About/WCC/Documents/spring_hearing/2015/2015SpringQuestionnaire.pdf) which clearly states our desire to cast AND uses suckers at the same time.
Do you favor a rule change to allow the trolling of a sucker or other fish as bait while casting and retrieving with another line and using the aid of a motor statewide?
That rule inclusion alone would satisfy [maybe] the VAST majority of us. But that advisory question and the proposed rule change would then need verbiage that clearly communicates those proposals work together (and don't compete against each other.) |
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Location: oswego, il | 3 lines per angler your only "trolling" one of them. |
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Location: oconomowoc, wi | ToddM - 2/13/2015 12:40 PM
3 lines per angler your only "trolling" one of them.
"your"? |
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| As someone who finds it harder to fish for muskies every year, I would welcome trolling in Wisconsin. Right now I can troll all over WI with my disabled fishing license, but can only use an electric motor. I'd love to be able to troll in the fall, but I think that 3 lines is too many. Even 2 with one guy in the boat would be a fire drill, but if it means that you can cast a lure and drag a sucker, then 2 lines it is. I think that "Trollphobia" will win out anyway. Just like we value dragging suckers, we're afraid of trolling. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Beaver - 2/13/2015 5:12 PM
As someone who finds it harder to fish for muskies every year, I would welcome trolling in Wisconsin. Right now I can troll all over WI with my disabled fishing license, but can only use an electric motor. I'd love to be able to troll in the fall, but I think that 3 lines is too many. Even 2 with one guy in the boat would be a fire drill, but if it means that you can cast a lure and drag a sucker, then 2 lines it is. I think that "Trollphobia" will win out anyway. Just like we value dragging suckers, we're afraid of trolling.
Beav you can jump in with me in the fall so you don't have to worry about that fire drill once we are allowed to troll.  |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | Long TIme Lurker - 2/13/2015 5:52 PM
Hope they vote yes for you.
The Conservation Congress can vote "yes" ad infinitum and it may not matter. The final say is with the legislature who will vote however their favorite special interest tell them to. Cynical ? Yes, and with good reason. |
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Location: The desert | fishhawk50 - 2/13/2015 1:29 PM
ToddM - 2/13/2015 12:40 PM
3 lines per angler your only "trolling" one of them.
"your"? ; )
Booya! |
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| Long TIme Lurker - 2/13/2015 5:52 PM
I don't get this issue, you got guys throwing spears and killing tons and tons of the biggest fish you got up there but you are scared of a guy dragging a Jake behind his boat that is throw the fish back anyway.
Kids, older guys, people with low experience can all catch a fish trolling, it still takes someone with experience to consistently do it, just like casting.
Hope they vote yes for you.
You are correct. There ARE guys throwing spears, and there are nets and treaty harvest lakes and tribal quotas. There are invasives, and ever decreasing stocking efforts due to DNR budget cuts. That's something we can't stop. It's worthless to fight sovereign nations within our own borders. That fight went all the way to the supreme court and we lost big time.
I think most of the backwards Northwoods hillbillies would prefer "Let's fight for what little we have left." over "It's already messed up, so why not **** it all to #*#*."
Edited by esoxaddict 2/13/2015 7:49 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | d2bucktail - 2/13/2015 11:06 AM
Let's try this again. I see the last thread on this Wisconsin trolling topic got pulled. I'd like this thread to stay on topic and remain civil; but spirited is ok. As previously stated and per my observation, this article - http://dnr.wi.gov/news/releases/article/?id=3221 - seems somewhat recent (the red 'EDITOR'S ADVISORY' at the top is dated 2/10/2015 ) despite the original May 28/2014 date at the top of the article. So, based ONLY WHAT YOU SEE IN THIS ARTICLE (link above ), let's discuss.
Nope. Just moved to the appropriate place...
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=10... |
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| I think most of the backwards Northwoods hillbillies would prefer "Let's fight for what little we have left." over "It's already messed up, so why not **** it all to #*#*."
Maybe I am to far removed from the issue to understand it, I did not intend to portray anyone as a bunch of hillbillies. I guess I just didn't see it are detracting from what you have left. I look at trolling as another tactic. I guess I viewed the topic the same as if you said. "top water lures are banned" or "you cant use bobbers". Its just another tactic that under the right conditions can be successful.
Down here in Iowa there are some in arms that you can use a crossbow as your weapon of choice for second season deer muzzleloader. Some archery guys have a problem with it, but its is not allowed in archery season its allowed in muzzleloader season. I see a crossbow as a downgrade to my muzzleloader so I don't know why I would buy one, but i don't care if the guy next door thinks its the second coming and waits all year to do it, great for him. I support his right to harvest a deer ethically.
Muzzleloader or X Bow, a single shot device to launch a projectile providing a clean kill of a 30 point buck.
Casting or trolling. a fishing tactic to drag a lure in the water and catch a fish that will be smaller then the spray fish.
In the end long as you get the same end result, people following game regulations and hopefully in our world CPR. Who is getting hurt? That 47 inch Muskie was here this morning and he is also here tonight albeit with a couple holes in his lips.
So in the end i guess i just wanted to show you what I was thinking, I didn't intend to offend anyone.
I have always wondered why every single year this thread appears.
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| Why do so many people feel it is fine to drag a sucker along a shoreline but if I want to have an artificial lure hanging over the side of the boat that is considered trolling? I don't see any difference between hanging a sucker over the side or a bulldawg. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Long TIme Lurker - 2/14/2015 9:18 AM
Casting or trolling. a fishing tactic to drag a lure in the water and catch a fish that will be smaller then the spray fish.
... one of which can be obtrusive |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | I sat in on the DNR Seminars yesterday at the Milwaukee Muskie Show. It was clearly stated that the new one-line trolling rule changes would only impact the 17 counties that currently have No Trolling, including dagging a sucker while trolling and casting while "trolling" the sucker, its permitted. The regulation appears to be a good compromise. The rule is per fisherman/angler because they have the fishing license, not the boat. Yes, it passed the advisory board and was drafted for 2015 Regs, its now sitting on Scott Walker's desk and thats the problem, its been there a while, he needs to pass it to the WI Legislature to be passed into law.
What do we need? We need some pressure on the Governor of WI to support the will of the Conservation Congress hearings, meaning all the fishing community of Wisconsin! The same can be said of the legislature when they finally get this legislation.
There is no statistical data that supports that one-line per angler trolling is detrimental to our fisheries. If you don't believe that, just look north of the US border with Ontario Canada. One-line per angler is the absolute rule. I think this new rule is very generous in allowing the fisherman to also cast while trolling one line.
Casting was also clarified by the DNR panel, meaning if you cast you have to immediately start retreiving the lure so its not being trolled by the boat. If you stop your retrieve and let the boat move the lure, you are subject to a citation for trolling with multiple lines.
Scott Kieper - Also brought up a great point. "It will take all of the fisherman south of Hwy 29 to get this bill off Scott Walker's desk and through the legislature" - you have a voice. make it heard by the Governor and Legislature.
The muskie spearing topic was also brought up in the QA by Scott Kieper - Scott is one of the most passionate WI Guides about protecting the bigger fish. The Kentuck Lake spearing of muskies was a hot topic. Its not something the WI DNR has any control of, the Federal Courts have ruled!
But there is solution - negotiation with all Tribes to self regulate their members activities with respect to tribal spearing traditions. Spearing any significant number of big muskies or big walleye's from any lake is detrimental to the lake. Again this is within Scott Waker's pervue as our Governor to leverage. Its all about money versus gluttony by a few, the Tribal Casino's are a major source of revenue to the Tribes.
Personnaly, I don't think gluttony is a tribal tradition. Keep in mind we also have non-native gluttony that is also seriously impacting our fisheries. Including the influx of Asian, Hispanic and Eastern European's whom have no catch & release ethics. They fish, they keep & eat every legal fish. I see it here on the WI River south of Castle Rock Dam, one of the guys (Ian from Praire du Sac) at the swap & I started chatting about WI River muskies. He's seeing the same thing there.
The topic of Muskies below Praire du Sac to the confluence with the Mississippi River was also asked of the DNR Panel. Their concensus was that they are very likely there, and not being specifically targeted. I would like to see a 50" size limit on the entire WI River south of the Casltle Rock Dam.
My sincere thanks to the DNR panel for their contributions to giving me a better understanding of what is, or what could be for the WI muskie fishery. Its very clear that politicians should not be managing our fisheries, we have very highly qualified DNR fisheries biologist's whom are just as passionate about the waters they manage as we are about those waters.
The politicians need to take the negotiations to the Tribes on the spearing issue, its also incumbent on the Tribal Leaders and members to understand the conduct of a few in excersizing their tribal rights is an internal tribal problem, as its creating a unjust image of the Tribe involved.
The same is true of all fisherman, its incumbent on us to behave in a responsible manner. Using vulager language, racial slurs, blocking landings and protests or violence is not going to have anything but the opposite effect - it simply creates a bigger divide between the tribes and those whom oppose spearing.
BTW: Yes, I have family members that are tribal members (Ho Chunk). We are all members of the human race. Take away skin color, its a poor figure of merit in judging anyone. We need to treat each other fairly and with respect.
Have fun!
Al
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Location: minocqua, wi. | the will of the local Conservation Congress was against motor trolling. still a huge divide on the subject and worthy of "sitting" on the Governor's desk. hope it doesn't pass. |
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Location: WI | Odd how people have no issue with having a sucker out while casting, but take issue with trolling 2 lines. There's no way you can justify that stance to me, it doesn't make any rational sense. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | position fishing and motor trolling are night and day difference ... |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | jonnysled - 2/15/2015 12:48 PM
the will of the local Conservation Congress was against motor trolling. still a huge divide on the subject and worthy of "sitting" on the Governor's desk. hope it doesn't pass.
SLED, Do you seriously believe motor trolling with a single line per angler is detrimental to the "local" fisheries of the 17 counties? If so, please explain how? Or are you simply defending your "tribal rights" because its your tradition?
Have fun!
Al |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | ESOX Maniac - 2/15/2015 12:57 PM
jonnysled - 2/15/2015 12:48 PM
the will of the local Conservation Congress was against motor trolling. still a huge divide on the subject and worthy of "sitting" on the Governor's desk. hope it doesn't pass.
SLED, Do you seriously believe motor trolling with a single line per angler is detrimental to the "local" fisheries of the 17 counties? If so, please explain how? Or are you simply defending your "tribal rights" because its your tradition?
Have fun!
Al
nice kidney punch Al ... and, yes i do. do a search and i think you'll find all the "reasons" so many are against motor trolling. best to do that than to kill the horse again.
the compromise considers quite a few of the negatives of the original proposal. still many things that more than just me disagree with. if you were at the Sayner Conservation Congress you would notice those who voted against. i'm just one of many.
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | SLED - The question begged to be asked. I also know position fishing is an art, unless you drop the anchor. I know I've position sucker fished with Howie Meyer, and I suspect his vote would also reflect his personnal perspective, and rightly so.
Successful motor trolling is also another art in itself. If you're just going to drive around with single line and lure its usually not to sucessful of a venture, unless you know what and why you are doing it. Much like casting at a specific patch of water without any clue as to if there are fish there.
I'm like Beaver, I can no longer take casting all day and need breaks...trolling does that for me. So should I just skip fishing some of Wisconsin's most beautiful muskie waters because, its not going to be as enjoyable as I would like?
Its all about options to maximize my time on the water sucess.
Is this totally a motor trolling issue? Not really - its also position fishing suckers tradition versus trolling a single lure or sucker and casting while you are moving. Which is a more sucsessful strategy to actually catch a big muskie?
1. If I position fish a spot with 2-suckers/angler and each are casting.
2. If I position fish a spot with 3-suckers/angler and no one is casting.
3. If I'm trolling 1-sucker/angler and each are casting.
4. If I'm trolling one lure/angler and each is casting.
5. If I'm trolling 1-lure/angler and no one is casting.
6. Row trolling with 3-lines/angler?
PS: I've never seen anyone who can cast more than 1-lure at a time!
Have fun!
Al
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| Too much momentum for trolling for it not to become legal. Seems to be a couple bumps along they way, but seems like a done deal in the next few years, just a matter of how many lines. |
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Location: oswego, il | There will be tons of floating beer and pop cans on northern WI lakes if trolling becomes legal. |
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| ToddM - 2/15/2015 5:45 PM
There will be tons of floating beer and pop cans on northern WI lakes if trolling becomes legal.
It will look like the local roads then? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | BenR - 2/15/2015 6:03 PM
ToddM - 2/15/2015 5:45 PM
There will be tons of floating beer and pop cans on northern WI lakes if trolling becomes legal.
It will look like the local roads then?
yah, Vilas and Oneida County Roads are filled with litter ... have a snickers Ben |
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Location: Already Gone | Just downloaded The Pirates of the Caribbean soundtrack into my boat IPod.
Hide the women and children. |
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Location: WI | Thank you, Al, for reporting conversations at the open forum by the DNR at the Milwaukee Muskie Expo. Al has made a lot of good points in his discussion.
I am for passing this bill. (Full disclosure) I voted for Scott Walker in all of his last three elections. I also own property in Vilas County. As a muskie fisherman, there is no reason for him not to pick up the bill off of his desk and sign it before the season is open. I hope it does not drag on like the Kenosha Hard Rock issue.
Edited by GOTONE 2/15/2015 6:42 PM
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| I am curious why you folks that view motor trolling as the end of the WI northwoods as we know it aren't leading the charge to ban wakeboard boats, wakeboarders, and jet skis from our precious northern waters?
I have way more issue with those obnoxious sobs than anyone trolling around two lines at 1-6 mph.
Well? |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | CEK- That's never going to happen........to many tourist dollars involved, much like snowmobiles running a trail all day/night behind or in front of your house!
Have Fun!
Al |
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| I understand it won't happen, but that shouldn't stop those who care for our waters from trying to stop it! |
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Location: Wisconsin | I'm not an avid troller by any mean and when i look around at surrounding states that allow trolling it has not seemed to hurt their fishing. In fact they seem to have much better fishing than we do. I primarily fish a lake in Wisconsin that allows trolling and I can count on one hand how many guys I see out there a year trolling for muskie. If it passes it unlikely people are going to flock to northern Wisconsin to go troll out all the fish in the lakes. Go 50"+ like Minnesota and we shouldn't have to worry about too many fish being kept period. |
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Location: Hayward, WI | I predict WI will legalize pot before they legalize 3 line trolling. After all the potheads are too lazy to cast the push for 3 line trolling statewide will finally get enough support to get it done. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | dirtybird - 2/16/2015 10:30 AM
I primarily fish a lake in Wisconsin that allows trolling and I can count on one hand how many guys I see out there a year trolling for muskie. If it passes it unlikely people are going to flock to northern Wisconsin to go troll out all the fish in the lakes. Go 50"+ like Minnesota and we shouldn't have to worry about too many fish being kept period.
I don't get this by the pro-troller crowd. I hear time and time again that not many actually troll on the lakes they are allowed to. So then why do you want it so bad if you don't plan on doing it based on the comment of " I primarily fish a lake in Wisconsin that allows trolling and I can count on one hand how many guys I see out there a year trolling for muskie"?
There are certain lakes in Northern WI that will be TARGETED by those trolling. Mark my words. Everyone is drooling at the thought of trolling some of the little, deep cisco based lake gems. Guaranteed I will join the crowd (yes, crowd) when it opens up! You would be foolish not to. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i agree with Travis ... |
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Location: central Wisconsin | Agree completely Travis. I suspect that many of the members here were not around when backtrolling was legal in the early 90"s. Our shack was on a small deep lake, that opening weekend there were guides backtrolling 6 wide with planer boards. If people can troll they will. |
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| I have never wanted trolling to become law more than I do now. Without it, I'm done fishing for muskies. I can't stand up in a boat for very long much less cast lures while doing it. And we all know that you need lots of room and a high seat to cast while seated. One line trolling will keep me on the water. I too remember the backtrolling fiasco. That was the fault of the people that wrote the language. I was in Vilas County and saw Lake Michigan rigs trolling planer boards and down riggers in reverse. I thought that I was seeing things. |
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Location: NorthCentral WI | Beaver - 2/13/2015 5:12 PM
Right now I can troll all over WI with my disabled fishing license, but can only use an electric motor.
But you're done fishing muskies if it doesn't become law? I don't get it. I'm sure plenty of the pro-trolling crowd would be fine with being limited to a trolling motor.
Edited by MartinTD 2/16/2015 1:13 PM
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Beaver - 2/16/2015 12:46 PM
I have never wanted trolling to become law more than I do now. Without it, I'm done fishing for muskies. I can't stand up in a boat for very long much less cast lures while doing it. And we all know that you need lots of room and a high seat to cast while seated. One line trolling will keep me on the water. I too remember the backtrolling fiasco. That was the fault of the people that wrote the language. I was in Vilas County and saw Lake Michigan rigs trolling planer boards and down riggers in reverse. I thought that I was seeing things.
Beav I understand your scenario, and my comment is not directed towards you. |
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| CEK - 2/16/2015 9:37 AM
I am curious why you folks that view motor trolling as the end of the WI northwoods as we know it aren't leading the charge to ban wakeboard boats, wakeboarders, and jet skis from our precious northern waters?
I have way more issue with those obnoxious sobs than anyone trolling around two lines at 1-6 mph.
Well?
We're making progress on that front as well.
(1). Personal Watercraft.
(a). Shall only be operated in a "slow-no-wake"
manner within the shore zone and within 200 feet of any other personal
watercraft, boat, pier, dock or buoyed restricted
area.
(b). Hours of operation shall be limited to the hours
between 10:00 A.M. and 5:00 P.M. local time.
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Location: Wisconsin | I prefer to cast and that is my method of choice and I simply stated what I saw on a popular lake that receives very little trolling pressure. |
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| Beav, have you looked into getting the special permit? I'm not sure how that process works, but it's in place for a reason. Nobody wants to see guys who have injuries, disabilities, or are just plain too old to cast have to hang up their musky hats.
Travis is right. There are lakes that WILL be targeted. There are enough people complaining here because they want to go troll those little potholes that the point doesn't even need to be argued. "I wanna go up there and troll all those little gems" is not justification enough to change laws. Neither is the argument that "It won't hurt the fisheries!" How do you know? Because you can troll on this and that lake and there is still good fishing to be had? What would those lakes be like if you couldn't troll? We're talking about lakes that are small in size, with healthy populations of fish that are only healthy because of a lack of fishing pressure.
That aside, has anyone considered that the health of the fishery is not the only concern? What about not ruining the fishing experience for those folks who really just want to go out there and enjoy total silence and only share the lake with a handful of other boats?
History has shown that in almost every case, if you give people an opportunity to abuse something and destroy it for others, they absolutely WILL.
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | CEK - 2/16/2015 9:37 AM
I am curious why you folks that view motor trolling as the end of the WI northwoods as we know it aren't leading the charge to ban wakeboard boats, wakeboarders, and jet skis from our precious northern waters?
I have way more issue with those obnoxious sobs than anyone trolling around two lines at 1-6 mph.
Well?
Because my issue isn’t with noise, but rather with what can happen to certain resources. I am sure trolling will become legal at some point, and when that happens I am praying that my “sky is falling” doubts are for nothing. As if they are not the outcome will be much worse for us on those waters than those missing out on being able to cast and drag a sucker at the same time.
I keep hearing there is no evidence of the detriment that trolling will cause based on other waters that allow it. However I am not so sure those other waters have the same scenario as many of the new waters that would be impacted.
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| What about not ruining the fishing experience for those folks who really just want to go out there and enjoy total silence and only share the lake with a handful of other boats?
if my 9.9hp 4-stroke motor disturbs you that much, perhaps it's time to buy yourself a private lake. you don't get to fish public waters and then complain when the public shows up. |
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| It's not your motor I am concerned about. I am concerned with catering to the desires of a few at the expense of something that will likely only be changed for the worse, and perhaps forever.
If it ain't broke... |
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Location: oswego, il | Of coarse, once you troll, you will become an expert fisherman. It is an option to catch fish. The problem isn't catching them, isn't that what everyone is trying to do? It is keeping them. There are plenty of small lakes with musky in them outside of northern Wisconsin that allow trolling. I would like to be able to take my grandfather out and troll for whatever. Bad fisherman will be bad trollers. Trollers make no more noise than a pontoon or a ski boat.
Edited by ToddM 2/16/2015 3:26 PM
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| I say 3 lines legal in all lakes in 2016. Just a hunch:-) |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Question for you that are for trolling? How would you feel about me, or anyone else, trolling fish up from 30-40' down? Not that depth of the lake, but let's say I am over 70' of water and run my baits at 35'. How about if I started doing that when the water temps are say 76-79 degrees? What about 80+?
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| esoxaddict - 2/16/2015 2:23 PM It's not your motor I am concerned about. I am concerned with catering to the desires of a few at the expense of something that will likely only be changed for the worse, and perhaps forever. If it ain't broke... http://youtu.be/g6jNA78oGZQ start watching at about the 3:30 mark. apparently even fishing from a quiet kayak doesn't pass muster with some people's view of what is and is not acceptable use of "my lake." if it ain't broke... |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Beaver - 2/16/2015 12:46 PM
I have never wanted trolling to become law more than I do now. Without it, I'm done fishing for muskies. I can't stand up in a boat for very long much less cast lures while doing it. And we all know that you need lots of room and a high seat to cast while seated. One line trolling will keep me on the water. I too remember the backtrolling fiasco. That was the fault of the people that wrote the language. I was in Vilas County and saw Lake Michigan rigs trolling planer boards and down riggers in reverse. I thought that I was seeing things.
Beav I would be all for them re-evaluating the disabled permit, and have that changed to gas motor rather than electric motor. You could probably get that in effect before the current proposal would get implemented. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | CiscoKid - 2/16/2015 4:10 PM
Question for you that are for trolling? How would you feel about me, or anyone else, trolling fish up from 30-40' down? Not that depth of the lake, but let's say I am over 70' of water and run my baits at 35'. How about if I started doing that when the water temps are say 76-79 degrees? What about 80+?
I agree with Travis |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | CiscoKid - 2/16/2015 4:18 PM
Beaver - 2/16/2015 12:46 PM
I have never wanted trolling to become law more than I do now. Without it, I'm done fishing for muskies. I can't stand up in a boat for very long much less cast lures while doing it. And we all know that you need lots of room and a high seat to cast while seated. One line trolling will keep me on the water. I too remember the backtrolling fiasco. That was the fault of the people that wrote the language. I was in Vilas County and saw Lake Michigan rigs trolling planer boards and down riggers in reverse. I thought that I was seeing things.
Beav I would be all for them re-evaluating the disabled permit, and have that changed to gas motor rather than electric motor. You could probably get that in effect before the current proposal would get implemented.
I agree with Travis |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Sounds like this should be a one line/one lure rule for the 17 counties, either casting or trolling. It works for me in MN & Canada. I think Beav would be happy with that too.
Have fun!
Al |
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Location: oswego, il | What is keeping someone from fishing for them now under those conditions?
Edited by ToddM 2/16/2015 6:50 PM
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | ToddM - 2/16/2015 6:48 PM
What is keeping someone from fishing for them now under those conditions?
Nothing except there is no efficient way to do it while casting, and thus catch would be lower. Throw in trolling, and I can now effectively and efficiently target that zone all day long. I am drooling at the thought.
Just asking a simple question Todd. So, what would you think? |
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| CiscoKid - 2/16/2015 4:10 PM
Question for you that are for trolling? How would you feel about me, or anyone else, trolling fish up from 30-40' down? Not that depth of the lake, but let's say I am over 70' of water and run my baits at 35'. How about if I started doing that when the water temps are say 76-79 degrees? What about 80+?
I want a chance to catch some of those big girls that live deep. I think the bigger problems are sucker dunkers and spearing but it is what it is. Fished in Vilas for a lot of years and have caught some hawgs but very rare I just want to give it a whirl. The row troller will be gone forever if this holds true. Will miss those days in that also. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | "The rowtroller will be gone forever" = yes ... |
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| CiscoKid - 2/16/2015 6:58 PM ToddM - 2/16/2015 6:48 PM What is keeping someone from fishing for them now under those conditions? Nothing except there is no efficient way to do it while casting, and thus catch would be lower. Throw in trolling, and I can now effectively and efficiently target that zone all day long. I am drooling at the thought. Just asking a simple question Todd. So, what would you think? Travis...why are you trotting out a biological harm argument that's not supported by evidence from other fisheries that allow trolling? Is it possible? Yes. Does it happen? Not to any meaningful degree. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | ^ all lakes are the same ... and there are lots of saturday to saturday tourists in madison i'm sure ... |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | M Winther - 2/16/2015 7:33 PM
CiscoKid - 2/16/2015 6:58 PM ToddM - 2/16/2015 6:48 PM What is keeping someone from fishing for them now under those conditions? Nothing except there is no efficient way to do it while casting, and thus catch would be lower. Throw in trolling, and I can now effectively and efficiently target that zone all day long. I am drooling at the thought. Just asking a simple question Todd. So, what would you think? Travis...why are you trotting out a biological harm argument that's not supported by evidence from other fisheries that allow trolling? Is it possible? Yes. Does it happen? Not to any meaningful degree.
Mike I mentioned I hope I am wrong, and that you and others are right. Again, there will likely not be any undoing if you are wrong, and if there is it will take years to recover. The problem with the lack of evidence argument is there was no before and after data collected where it is allowed.
Maybe I do not know the other landscapes all that well, and am also wrong in that a lot of them are different than the WI lakes I have in mind that will suffer. Hayward probably has some similar to what I am thinking of so maybe some of them would chime in. Some of MN as well.
I am curious to what others think to my questions though. I for one am looking forward to wireline trolling some Vilas Lakes mid-summer. Glad I have not gotten rid of my Talonz, Frankies, and the likes.
Edited by CiscoKid 2/16/2015 7:53 PM
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| CiscoKid - 2/16/2015 7:48 PM
M Winther - 2/16/2015 7:33 PM
CiscoKid - 2/16/2015 6:58 PM ToddM - 2/16/2015 6:48 PM What is keeping someone from fishing for them now under those conditions? Nothing except there is no efficient way to do it while casting, and thus catch would be lower. Throw in trolling, and I can now effectively and efficiently target that zone all day long. I am drooling at the thought. Just asking a simple question Todd. So, what would you think? Travis...why are you trotting out a biological harm argument that's not supported by evidence from other fisheries that allow trolling? Is it possible? Yes. Does it happen? Not to any meaningful degree.
Mike I mentioned I hope I am wrong, and that you and others are right. Again, there will likely not be any undoing if you are wrong, and if there is it will take years to recover. The problem with the lack of evidence argument is there was no before and after data collected where it is allowed.
Maybe I do not know the other landscapes all that well, and am also wrong in that a lot of them are different than the WI lakes I have in mind that will suffer. Hayward probably has some similar to what I am thinking of so maybe some of them would chime in. Some of MN as well.
I am curious to what others think to my questions though. I for one am looking forward to wireline trolling some Vilas Lakes mid-summer. Glad I have not gotten rid of my Talonz, Frankies, and the likes.
Summer night trolling will be unreal. Big muskies and walleyes are untouched over the basin at night. Do it in the rower but this will be much more productive.
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Location: minocqua, wi. | ^stop making sense ... |
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| Trolling 2016. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | BenR - 2/16/2015 8:02 PM
Trolling 2016.
you've been trolling Northern Wisconsin for years |
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| Successfully catching suspended muskies is not the same as killing fish that are real deep. If we're focused on making sense, no straw man arguments please...
I'd bet that Madison or Milwaukee or Minneapolis metro lakes see more pressure every summer week than any similarly sized lakes in Vilas or Oneida Co. Monona is about 3500 acres, Waubesa about 2500, and Wingra 300 so they're comparably sized and less healthy water. All get pounded by casting and trolling every day. CCMI members have maintained 6-8% of total catches being over 45" annually on Dane Co lakes. Are Vilas and Oneida lakes doing that?
If you want to argue tradition or preference or busy-ness, okay, that's subjective and just a disagreement. But it'll kill the fish? C'mon, you can do better than that... |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | lake size has been a discussion point along with the number of lines and how that affects confusion or change from 3 lines for other places, sport fish etc... plenty of good arguments against as there are for and likely why it stands where it stands today.
you are able to claim there will be no change on what merit? because some other lakes that get trolled don't?? 3 stocked lakes in madison??
what happens if you reduce pressure in madison? or what happens if there was a big stocking of muskies on mendota with summer trolling for fish relating to deep water in the heat of summer?? what comparison are you making to what could happen on long, twins, tom, and other smaller deep cisco lakes in the summer months?
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | ToddM - 2/16/2015 6:48 PM
What is keeping someone from fishing for them now under those conditions?
Usually integrity!
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie...
In unusual conditions, I ask myself: "What would Jesus do?"
Have fun! |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | I should have said, I don't agree with the WI 3 lines/angler either. Is it gluttony or a crutch for a poor fisherman or a tradition. WI look at your neighbors!
Some traditions need to be stopped. In some societies its OK to kill your daughter because she dishonered you?
We as a society need to make good decisions without taking away our inherent freedoms.
Can I fish with one line? Yup....Do I need three lines? Nope!
I'll put forward that its more challenging to muskie fish with one-line, and that your catch rate may actually exceed that of someone with two lines or three lines. Why? Because you pay more attention! (Thanks Howie Meyer!).
Let the WI DNR biologist's regulate the limits, etc. If you're worried about specific lakes - bump the limit to 54"/ one line only, that usually removes the PB keep mentallity. Did I say I love Ontario, Canada - they have this nailed and millions of dollars travel across that border...........why?
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 2/16/2015 10:16 PM
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | CiscoKid - 2/16/2015 6:58 PM
ToddM - 2/16/2015 6:48 PM
What is keeping someone from fishing for them now under those conditions?
Nothing except there is no efficient way to do it while casting, and thus catch would be lower. Throw in trolling, and I can now effectively and efficiently target that zone all day long. I am drooling at the thought.
Just asking a simple question Todd. So, what would you think?
Travis: With all due respect, how is that changing the game (your drooling)? I can fish deep water suspended muskies & bait fish ball's with a creature, a Bondy, a Twinkie or an Alien. Trolling is a for the most part a search tool or a means to take a break for me.
Yeah, if I catch the biggest fish in your lake, I'm still putting it back. Unless, it has a chance of putting Louis Spray's record to rest! Yes- I believe WI has few swimming in our waters. They are a very different fish! That's why I fish now..............
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 2/16/2015 10:40 PM
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Location: Wisconsin | My only concern is pressure. You are correct CEK, pleasure boaters pose threats to pressure, but some lakes will have many more lures in the water and more often. As well as I think trolling lakes that can be covered easily while casting is just a lazy form of fishing. No offense to anyone, I just prefer casting myself. |
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| Mike, you're comparing apples to horseshoes. What would the Yahara Chain fisheries look like sans stocking efforts? You know as well as I do that the lakes you mentioned are stocked heavily. You're talking about fisheries that are incredibly fertile with a forage base that looks NOTHING like the perch/panfish based lakes in Vilas and Oneida counties. The Madison area lakes may not be as "healthy", but you have to look at the big picture. The fish you are catching in Madison on a regular basis are in a system with ridiculous amounts of forage, and those fisheries are sustained by a lot of stocking, and more importantly a lot of MONEY that does not exist in Vilas and Oneida counties. Let's talk about forage, water chemistry, the biomass those lakes can support, size limits, the amount of money that's available to maintain those fisheries, and the amount of stocking that takes place and THEN make a comparison. Let's talk about population densities, tribal harvest, and growing seasons, and THEN make a comparison.
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Location: north central wisconsin | esoxaddict - 2/16/2015 10:48 PM
Mike, you're comparing apples to horseshoes. What would the Yahara Chain fisheries look like sans stocking efforts? You know as well as I do that the lakes you mentioned are stocked heavily. You're talking about fisheries that are incredibly fertile with a forage base that looks NOTHING like the perch/panfish based lakes in Vilas and Oneida counties. The Madison area lakes may not be as "healthy", but you have to look at the big picture. The fish you are catching in Madison on a regular basis are in a system with ridiculous amounts of forage, and those fisheries are sustained by a lot of stocking, and more importantly a lot of MONEY that does not exist in Vilas and Oneida counties. Let's talk about forage, water chemistry, the biomass those lakes can support, size limits, the amount of money that's available to maintain those fisheries, and the amount of stocking that takes place and THEN make a comparison. Let's talk about population densities, tribal harvest, and growing seasons, and THEN make a comparison.
Money? With that fleet of 400 HP outobards pulling masts all over the northwoods, the gas tax alone should bring plenty enough to stock the lakes, and perhaps, thwart the selling of all of our private lands, all in one blue smoke cloud.
Edited by Reef Hawg 2/16/2015 11:08 PM
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | M Winther - 2/16/2015 9:33 PM
Successfully catching suspended muskies is not the same as killing fish that are real deep. If we're focused on making sense, no straw man arguments please...
Who says catching muskies really deep is killing them? Some feel it does, while others do not. Just as there is no evidence that trolling hurts a fishery I do not believe there is any evidence that catching muskies really deep kills them. Speculation maybe, but isn't that what we are doing with this trolling evidence as well?
As far as comparing the Mad Chain Lakes to Vilas and surrounding lakes it is not apples to apples as EA says. The circumstance you are going to run into in Northern WI is the cisco based lakes. Lakes that "aid" in protecting fish from harvest due to the forage drawing fish out deep for a large part of the year, and thus making it more difficult for most anglers to target. Anglers who keep everything they catch. Anglers who would now have the ability to more easily, with trolling, remove the large walleyes from a system that they wouldn't have otherwise targeted by casting. Am I paranoid? Yep! I have also seen the mentality of a lot of the anglers up there, and I feel the paranoia is just.
Also The Northern WI lakes do not get stocked like the Southern waters, and EA also brings up a valid point in growth rates. A warm, fertile lake can rebound much quicker than a cold water fishery that is relatively infertile.
Edited by CiscoKid 2/17/2015 6:49 AM
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | ESOX Maniac - 2/16/2015 10:34 PM
CiscoKid - 2/16/2015 6:58 PM
ToddM - 2/16/2015 6:48 PM
What is keeping someone from fishing for them now under those conditions?
Nothing except there is no efficient way to do it while casting, and thus catch would be lower. Throw in trolling, and I can now effectively and efficiently target that zone all day long. I am drooling at the thought.
Just asking a simple question Todd. So, what would you think?
Travis: With all due respect, how is that changing the game (your drooling )? I can fish deep water suspended muskies & bait fish ball's with a creature, a Bondy, a Twinkie or an Alien. Trolling is a for the most part a search tool or a means to take a break for me.
Yeah, if I catch the biggest fish in your lake, I'm still putting it back. Unless, it has a chance of putting Louis Spray's record to rest! Yes- I believe WI has few swimming in our waters. They are a very different fish! That's why I fish now..............
Have fun!
Al
Al again it is efficiency. Yep I can jig for them now, but that is not nearly as efficient as trolling. How much deep water could I troll in a day versus jig? A LOT! |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i want 3 lines on the ice ... and i bet the Salmon guys want their 3 lines too.
fishing tradition now being compared to killing daughters for disobedience ... i must be upstairs. |
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Location: oswego, il | I must admit, I am not one for tradition. The argument Travis seems to be making is about keeping fish. Not catching them. One might take the anti trolling arguement as keeping people from catching them. Jigging big baits has become popular but you do not see people flocking north to try it. I also do not think row trollers will go away, there are traditionalists, I still see guys using oars to position their boat with no tolling motor up north. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | ToddM - 2/17/2015 7:32 AM
I must admit, I am not one for tradition. The argument Travis seems to be making is about keeping fish. Not catching them. One might take the anti trolling arguement as keeping people from catching them.
Except when it comes to how others feel about running baits 30'+ down during mid summer. |
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Location: NE Wisconsin | Multiple line trolling will have negative impacts on our fishery, BUT, don't touch my right to three line, set line fish through the ice. Tip up fishing is basically set line fishing, but that is great for the 100 acre lake which has one rock structure covered with you and your two kids 9 tip ups for the entire weekend. No negative impacts possible here. Unsized walleyes with swallowed triple hooks, because we get there late, MIGHT live when released. Don't allow trolling, but don't touch my ice set lines!
Northern Wisconsin, home of sucker fishing, where more Muskies have died because being gut hooked then all of the rest of the muskie world combined, because we did it here first and we did it wrong.....single hooks. To this day, I feel "accidentally" swallowed sucker rigs, or broken lines on the hook set, are the number one killer of Muskie's in WI. Now we, here inNorthern Wisconsin, are telling the rest of the muskie fishing world, where trolling has always been legal, trolling will ruin our fisheries??? Is this a joke?
You have to love northern WI, home of shore line setting with a fire to keep you warm while your groups suckers are set up and down the shore. But do not allow trolling, swallowed suckers do less harm to the fish then mouth hooked fish caught trolling.
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Location: NE Wisconsin | Trollers do not want trollers to troll "their" water.
I feel the biggest WI anti motor trolling political push on the Govornor came from row trollers. They do not want anyone else fishing "their" water. Many row trollers are lawyers etc. who are very well connected politically. A phone call from one of them often means more then any public vote, IMO. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | ^ those lawyers stay pretty fit and active vs. their angling peers maybe? i give em credit and appreciate their position especially on smaller lakes. we should all row a boat, it would be good for us.
oh and learn to take a treble out of a deep hooked walleye, it's pretty easy to do ... |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Johnnie - 2/17/2015 7:55 AM
Multiple line trolling will have negative impacts on our fishery, BUT, don't touch my right to three line, set line fish through the ice. Tip up fishing is basically set line fishing, but that is great for the 100 acre lake which has one rock structure covered with you and your two kids 9 tip ups for the entire weekend. No negative impacts possible here. Unsized walleyes with swallowed triple hooks, because we get there late, MIGHT live when released. Don't allow trolling, but don't touch my ice set lines!
Northern Wisconsin, home of sucker fishing, where more Muskies have died because being gut hooked then all of the rest of the muskie world combined, because we did it here first and we did it wrong.....single hooks. To this day, I feel "accidentally" swallowed sucker rigs, or broken lines on the hook set, are the number one killer of Muskie's in WI. Now we, here inNorthern Wisconsin, are telling the rest of the muskie fishing world, where trolling has always been legal, trolling will ruin our fisheries??? Is this a joke?
You have to love northern WI, home of shore line setting with a fire to keep you warm while your groups suckers are set up and down the shore. But do not allow trolling, swallowed suckers do less harm to the fish then mouth hooked fish caught trolling.
Yes John we have lots of other issues impacting the potential of our fisheries. That does not mean we should allow a new potential problem to the mix. Note I said potential. |
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Location: MN | Curious, to the guys who are opposed to allowing trolling, would you be opposed to it if you were limited to 1 line per person while trolling inland waters? That way the great lakes guys could still have there 3 lines. I can understand why 3 lines while trolling inland waters could cause issues. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i felt that was a great compromise on the trolling side if it becomes inevitable ... i believe it was 2 per boat? you can stack a lot of people in a boat/pontoon for an evening "troll" ...
still want 3 ice lines ... |
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Location: Already Gone | Johnnie - 2/17/2015 7:55 AM
Multiple line trolling will have negative impacts on our fishery, BUT, don't touch my right to three line, set line fish through the ice. Tip up fishing is basically set line fishing, but that is great for the 100 acre lake which has one rock structure covered with you and your two kids 9 tip ups for the entire weekend. No negative impacts possible here. Unsized walleyes with swallowed triple hooks, because we get there late, MIGHT live when released. Don't allow trolling, but don't touch my ice set lines!
Northern Wisconsin, home of sucker fishing, where more Muskies have died because being gut hooked then all of the rest of the muskie world combined, because we did it here first and we did it wrong.....single hooks. To this day, I feel "accidentally" swallowed sucker rigs, or broken lines on the hook set, are the number one killer of Muskie's in WI. Now we, here inNorthern Wisconsin, are telling the rest of the muskie fishing world, where trolling has always been legal, trolling will ruin our fisheries??? Is this a joke?
You have to love northern WI, home of shore line setting with a fire to keep you warm while your groups suckers are set up and down the shore. But do not allow trolling, swallowed suckers do less harm to the fish then mouth hooked fish caught trolling.
Stop Johnnie, this post makes too much sense...
it's easier to blame the FIBS.
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Location: Contrarian Island | call me crazy but I just don't see it being that big of deal If/when it is passed...there isn't going to be a mad dash to troll up there...sure some will do it...and some will get skunked and go back to their usual tactics... there are many bodies of water that allow it.. look at the lakes over towards Hayward... I'd like to see it passed statewide, something like 1 line per person, 3 lines max ... keep it easy/simple. it won't hurt the resource imo. |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | Act 10 made the convoluted CC process a bigger joke than it already was. Governor wasn't involved in process prior to Act 10. |
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Location: oswego, il | I don't have a problem with the compromise either. I agree with what Brad says as well. You can jig deeper than you could troll those lakes and stay right on a spot on the spot. There is a reason it is being done on lsc where trolling is huge. It works everywhere. I can't say this enough, trolling a bait behind your boat does not make you a good fisherman, let alone any measure of success. I talk to guys on lsc who blank and trolled by me all day while we hit double digits.
I don't know about the disobedient daughter thing but if I could slap the drive thru person because they have the inability to understand that hamburgers are served without cheese, that would be a plus.
Edited by ToddM 2/17/2015 4:44 PM
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | BNelson - 2/17/2015 9:35 AM
call me crazy but I just don't see it being that big of deal If/when it is passed...there isn't going to be a mad dash to troll up there...sure some will do it...and some will get skunked and go back to their usual tactics... there are many bodies of water that allow it.. look at the lakes over towards Hayward... I'd like to see it passed statewide, something like 1 line per person, 3 lines max ... keep it easy/simple. it won't hurt the resource imo.
So if it is not going to be a big deal why are so many up in arms that is hasn't passed by now?
I don't get it. So many on here and elsewhere keep saying it isn't going to increase pressure. Sure seems like a lot of folks that want to do it, which in turn will create pressure.
Also I am surprised not one person has answered my questions yet about me trolling 35' during the summer. That's a good thing I guess since I won't have to worry about the complaining in a few years when it is legal and I am doing it. No worries though as I am sure I will be unsuccessful.
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Location: Contrarian Island | trolling one line per person is legal in MN...there are huge fish there that go over the basin JUST like in WI...do I ever see guys trolling over there...rarely... why are people up in arms over it... not sure... to me it really won't hurt or make a difference in the fishery... if you are going to troll 35' feet down that is your own ethics and it is legal but if you KNOW it could harm a fish taking it 35 feet down in mid summer if it dies you only have yourself to blame... there are many tactics that most musky anglers know will more than likely harm fish and most don't do them... most of us out there fishing for them want the same things...more fish, bigger fish, unharmed catch photo release... I don't quite get the problem that trolling will do to the resource... so Travis, are you for or against it? I haven't read this whole thread to know....
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| Martin, where am I going to get a trolling motor that allows me to troll deep diving crankbaits, or even shallow runners? I'd need 6 batteries to power two 36 volt motors. I'm talking really trolling, not dragging suckers.
I would really like to thanks those of you who get it. I'm no different that I was when I used to fish from dark to dark and I wish that I could still do it, but I can't. I would much rather cast and feel the strike and watch a fish come after a top water. Those that know me know that I would throw a glider all day from September to freeze up. Still my favorite memories are of big fish coming up like missiles launched from a sub in clear water to inhale a glider and turn to go back down, but I don't think that I'll ever see it again, but that's OK because I've seen it. I'm just trying to find some way to keep my ass on the water. I love fishing with my daughter, and pan fish and walleyes are good enough for me. Just being in the boat with her is enough. But trolling one line would keep me in the hunt, and she still hasn't boated her first one so we could still do it together.
The Gov. won't change anything for me because I was a public employee for 32 years.......I couldn't resist that one. Don't tell him about me, it'll screw up the whole works.
Thanks again to those who understand.
Beav
Edited by Beaver 2/17/2015 6:16 PM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | ToddM - 2/17/2015 4:41 PM
You can jig deeper than you could troll those lakes and stay right on a spot on the spot. There is a reason it is being done on lsc where trolling is huge.
are you suggesting that fish in the basin are relating to structure? Travis!!!!! |
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| Travis,
I've never fished with you, so I can't say for sure... But you strike me as the kind of angler who has it together enough where trolling down 35 feet over 70 feet of water is something you're probably not apt to do in warm temperatures. Plus, I presume that your release techniques are adequate enough where you're not killing a lot of fish. I worry more about the less-experienced, "I'll do anything to catch a fish" crowd, and also the guys who are guiding because they need the money, and will do anything to put their clients on fish. I worry more about the guys who have no regard for the resource, who keep what they catch, and laugh about their freezer full of walleyes, who will keep a dozen fish regardless of the 2 fish creel limit. Those are the guys doing the damage. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Brad, against. More so for the walleye fishery than the musky fishery. I agree on the larger systems it isn't going to have a huge effect. However, it is the smaller, less than 1000 acre lakes I am concerned about. Especially those under 500 acres that are deep, cisco based lakes.
Yes part of the reason I am against it is because I would prefer the lakes that people are currently afraid to tackle wouldn't be as afraid to target if allowed to troll. Lots out there think they have to troll to target suspended muskies.
Secondly, and my main reason, as mentioned prior is the fear (yes fear) of what will happen to some fisheries. Not all mind you. I am not worried about the anglers that practice selective harvest for walleyes, but those that do not. Those are pretty great in number around the Eagle River area based on observation the past 15+ years. Too many do not follow regs, and they will be the ones that ruin a fishery. Give them a tool to tap into the large suspended summer walleyes, and they will exploit it. I hope I am wrong. Many may be in disagreement with me, and that is your right. However I see enough gluttony around Eagle River, Boulder Junction, Iron River MI (WI folks there), and Manitowish Waters to have a valid reason to be fearful of what could happen. Again, remember, once this happens there will likely not be any going back to correct it or at a minimum it would take many years to recover.
At least I am truthful and upfront on why I am against it.
As far as me or anyone else trolling 35' down and it being ethical? I asked as I feel it is OK for the fish, and if trolling is legal I WILL be doing it. There is as much proof that catching a fish 35' down is safe for a fish as there is that trolling will not affect a fishery. I bet more fish die inhaling rubber baits and double 10's than they do from being caught in more than 30' of water. I was just feeling out how the rest of you would feel now that I can take advantage of a tool that so many of you want. There are plenty of others I know that will be doing the same as me. Mind you we are smart enough to not being doing that in higher water temps, but others based on previous threads on this board are not. So if you have issues with it you should be asking is trolling really not going to affect the fisheries as little as you think?
Just like the Pelagic thread we are a fickle bunch. So many are for trolling, but only if you do it in a way that best fits your ideal reason for it and the way you want to do it. Heaven forbid someone wants to do it differently.
Points to ponder.
Edited by CiscoKid 2/17/2015 6:15 PM
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Location: oswego, il | Sled, nope not all jigging is spot on the spot bottom structure, staying on hooks and baitfish is. The fact people are not doing that tells me people in droves won't be trolling either. Travis, you will be a good troller because you are a good fisherman. I keep bringing this up because you seem to indicate trolling =automatic success. It does not.
Edited by ToddM 2/17/2015 6:20 PM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | fishing baitfish and hooks is pretty common and not what i'd call a novel concept ... the tools to do it maybe, yah.
Travis brings us a lot of good points ... |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | ToddM - 2/17/2015 4:41 PM
You can jig deeper than you could troll those lakes and stay right on a spot on the spot. There is a reason it is being done on lsc where trolling is huge. It works everywhere.
Of course you could always jig deeper than you could troll, but there becomes a depth at which you do not need to go beyond to target fish. I can reach that depth trolling certain cranks. I have a Franky Bait waiting in the ranks that I know hits 40' with about 100' of wire out. That will do the job nicely, and cover a lot more water finding fish.
Sure at times jigging is more effective than casting or trolling. At times trolling is more effective than the other two, and so on. I do not buy this reason to allow trolling just because on some days jigging is the better option.
If you are dealing with a spot on the spot situation trolling wouldn't be my first option either, but that has nothing to do with trolling being fine for a fishery. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | short line downriggers will put em wherever you want to put em ... my biggest concern is it will cost me the expense of a new kicker. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | ToddM - 2/17/2015 6:18 PM
I keep bringing this up because you seem to indicate trolling =automatic success. It does not.
That is not my intent at all, and I am well aware that trolling is not easy and mindless. There are plenty of unethical, meat hunter type anglers that are very good fisherman. They will do well trolling as well, and that is my concern. |
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | as long as the trolling will not effect the fantastic Bass fishing and dining options then I think it will work out just fine for Northern WI |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | with the new walleye initiative on the minocqua chain i would imagine any new trolling laws would not go into effect during the 3 - 5 years of no harvest of walleyes. |
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| jonnysled - 2/17/2015 7:40 PM
with the new walleye initiative on the minocqua chain i would imagine any new trolling laws would not go into effect during the 3 - 5 years of no harvest of walleyes.
Are they not allowing fishing on the chain during that period? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | still has some finalization but hoping it will begin this year ... will be a 3-5 year no harvest on walleyes, improvement of spawning habitat and stocking initiative aimed at re-establishing a sustainable population on the chain. joint effort between walleyes for tomorrow, the tribe, anglers and the dnr ... hope is once they re-establish they will regain dominance over the lmb's but i intend to assist.
other species can be fished ... but no take on walleyes. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'd like to troll, have to be honest. Won't be a bit upset if I can't. |
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| sworrall - 2/17/2015 8:43 PM
I'd like to troll, have to be honest. Won't be a bit upset if I can't.
I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't do it if given the opportunity. That doesn't mean I think it's a good idea, though. |
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| I do not live in Wisconsin and regretfully have not fished there yet so I have no dog in this political battle. However, I primarily fish in a state where trolling 2 rods per person is permitted. I cast about 80-90 % of the time and troll from spot to spot the remaining time. I used to troll a lot more. Here is the kicker I catch more muskies per hour of casting than I do trolling. It's not even close. It is certainly possible that I am just not good at trolling. According to the posters on a local website a great day of casting in prime time is 3-5 musky in a day. Interestingly a great day of trolling is 3-5 musky a day. There was one guy who stated he caught 9 in a day trolling last year. 9 fish in a day though is certainly probably 8 to 8.5 fish over the daily average.
Just sayin and good luck to all casters, trollers and trolls in 2015 |
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Location: Racine, Wi | I'm with Brad on this. You cal already troll in some locations up north. Price Co. Right next to Oneida, some Hayward area lakes, etc. no one flocks there just because they can troll. And the lakes aren't suffering because you can troll.
As far as the money and stocking go, you have the Northwoods MI chapter now that is getting steam. Approach some of the summer crowd for education purposes and membership and you can get some of the money flowing through the Northwoods during the summer for stocking purposes, not to mention educating them on the need for selective harvest of walleyes and safe release of muskies. Those summer visitors are ripe for the picking with a good summer marketing campaign. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | if stocking quotas are met, the money that is raised is invited to go to those lakes that weren't stocked to their quota ... which are all outside of the area. raising money and dumping fish in a lake you want to put them into is not how it goes, unfortunately. |
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Location: Racine, Wi | If the stocking quotas are met, would there be a population issue to begin with? My hole point is that with a good chapter in that area now, there's a lot you can do to help educate, along with stocking when needed. Think of all the kids that are up there during the summer, along with those that reside up there. Lots of education opportunities. Maybe a "kids" day at Pecks. Teach them of selective harvest, all my with the parents and you have a piece that would go a long way. Maybe it's monthly during my the summer...or whatever. The point is, lots of opportunities.
From an over bagging standpoint, I'd argue that some of the most blatant offenders are residents of the area. When you look at the back trolling days, who were the guys keeping the big walleyes and muskies.... Local guides. Perhaps their afraid of themselves when shooting down the trolling. Look at Greg Bohn. A gr at guide and fisherman, but how many big fish were (are still) kept and killed out of his boat? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | stocking quotas are based on the budget so not even close. minocqua chain is a prime example ... it desperately needs and can hold and grow fish, but the quota (based on the budget) has been met so you can't just raise money and put fish in. there is a group of people that can though ... an interesting irony. the walleyes for tomorrow group is doing the most progressive work in the area and i'm hopeful they will continue to gain momentum and consensus among all those who can make an impact.
kids in the summer ride jet skis and wakeboards while their dads are being hen-pecked by their wives.
the shimano father's day event is no more ... |
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Location: central Wisconsin | The Shimano Fathers day event was a blast. My son and me fished it from the get go. Great memories of the first two before it got watered down. |
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Location: Racine, Wi | Interesting politics. We supplement the lakes down here even after the Dnr stocks them so must be something else going on that I'm unaware of. How many lakes are up there? There aren't some you can stock outside of the main players? I would think the Dnr would love to have the financial assistance as it relates to stocking. I don't know the politics though.
When I say hold events, I'm not talking outings, just smaller stop by type programs where you have increased visibility and an easy group to target. My example of working with pecks was brought up because that parking lot is packed all summer long. They have a musky pond and captive audience. Seems like it would work for educating some of them. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | when i heard the stocking report (maybe a year ago), the lakes an effort could send the money to were not in oneida or vilas counties ... it was nonsense and seemed ridiculous. the DNR i think loves the money and assistance ... to stock lakes that are under quota, which are somewhere else in the state.
the youth programs in most clubs need to pass the test of the club politics first.
i can get more kids fishing at my shack and in my boat throughout a year than you can in any club with the politics of it's own leadership ... and that is a FACT
silly schidt you would think should be easy but it's not. maybe it's changed, but i doubt it ...
Edited by jonnysled 2/18/2015 9:14 AM
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Location: Racine, Wi | We have a pretty good youth program for our club as does the FRV chapter. Buuuut, it takes people who are willing to step up and help which can be difficult. But I digress. I think we're getting off topic now. Just food for thought. |
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| that's interesting that you're limited from supplementing DNR stocking. i know there are some limits on maximum stocking amounts (legislative maybe?), but using the Minocqua Chain as an example, it's had very little stocking in the last decade. have there been some other management goals in place related to natural reproduction or something similar that have meant no stocking?
a different way to help is that the DNR needs money to maintain the rearing ponds and to help purchase feed minnows for the muskies in the rearing ponds. we've responded to requests for money a few times in past years. at this point they stock fish in the fall essentially when they run out of money to feed them...and some years that means it's too early, the fingerlings are too small, and you end up with essentially complete mortality and a wasted stocking class. they're also studying the use of pellets as a lower-cost alternative to muskies; other research has found pellet fed fingerlings are smaller, and again small fingerlings almost all die. helping to feed the fish so that they are larger fingerlings is a different tack for helping stocking success. so that, you know, we can kill them later on by trolling. our club puts a lot of money into stocking, but we put a lot of money and/or effort into non-stocking efforts too and many of these involve youth. the Muskie School in March is a good example, so is the youth muskie tournament i've run the last few years; we've had ~19 kids per year take part in that. it takes work, but there haven't been any barriers related to club politics. in fact, a couple kids even came down for it last year from the Eagle River area and the Muskie School draws a couple hundred (with many youth) from all over.
Edited by M Winther 2/18/2015 9:36 AM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i'm not the one to respond to the stocking piece but just relating year or maybe even two year old information.
what i do know is that if you catch a musky or a walleye on the Minocqua Chain chances are it's going to be pretty big and if fishing for Muskies or Walleyes, you will have a great day of bass fishing. If targeting bass on the chain you will have the time of your life ... but i doubt they will be as fun if you troll for them ...
the largest effort happening is being led by Walleyes for Tomorrow, the Tribe and the DNR and it's going to be exciting and hopefully work for the longer range. I would imagine they will consider the trolling piece carefully and independently so as not to negate the efforts of the plan. i'll ask some questions and see what those in the know know.
you guys do a great job down there in Madison ... always enjoyed being part of the Madison Club outing at Eagle and keeping up with what you do down there.
a thought to consider ... the Governor passed the Walleye Initiative and there are big $$ committed to bringing back the walleye fishery in N. Wisco. those who are trying to bring back more fishing tourism are focused on walleyes. the walleye planning and investment combined have more "attention" so it's likely not the row-trolling lawyers who are stalling or stopping this, it could be the walleye folks. the rebuilding of a walleye fishery with added pressure will make it even harder than it already will be.
Edited by jonnysled 2/18/2015 10:00 AM
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Location: Black Creek, WI | Interesting Sled.
My personal reason for being in FAVOR of the single line trolling option in Northern WI was to help me catch more walleyes.... not muskies. |
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Location: Rhinelander | The minocqua chain is/has met stocking quotas for the past two stocking runs every three years. (Minocqua is one of three brood lakes why it is every three years vs every other)
The decline in muskie population was from 10 to 15 years and back with very little to no stocking. We are feeling/seeing those effects now because very few fish exist in this year class.
Young muskie do exist in the chain now....10 years from now we will hopefully see the positive results.
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| Hodag Hunter - 2/18/2015 10:13 PM The decline in muskie population was from 10 to 15 years and back with very little to no stocking. We are feeling/seeing those effects now because very few fish exist in this year class. Young muskie do exist in the chain now....10 years from now we will hopefully see the positive results. So the walleyes and the muskies are both on the "hopefully in 10 years" plan.
Maybe try to secure it as a Bassmaster Classic site in the meanwhile? Nobody trolls for bass anyway, so it's win/win! |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Muskies are not on the program for the Lake Minocqua Walleyes for Tomorrow Plan ... not sure, but I think it's 1 @ 34" on the Chain for muskies. Ciscoes are noted on Lake Tom for playing a big role in Walleye numbers and spawning habitat and harvest are noted on Lake Minocqua while Kawagua has the strongest adult per acre numbers. If it passes all the way and it should, they are going to build an ice road next year (on Lake Minocqua) and put gravel out to rebuild spawning areas to improve them as well.
The Bass situation suggests they essentially occupying the void the low Walleye numbers leave behind per DNR presentation. Again, thought is the Bass population will check back down when the Walleyes re-establish themselves. There is no way to effectively remove them ... but I'll mark a map for you!! limits are 5 lmb's no size limit and they eat just fine ... hopefully people will continue to release smb's
There are some big bass tournaments that happen now and it is definitely starting to get notice from Bass clubs around the region. Would be a great place for a tournament.
The Chain has enormous potential and grows big fish of all species ... my multi-species numbers (gils, smb, lmb, muskie, pike, walleye for size) on Lake Minocqua even in what I would call the bad years have been really, really good, so if this plan works for Walleyes it will be great.
thanks for the report on the stocking Jason ... hopefully start seeing some of those fish soon ...
another interesting occurrence in Minocqua that we've noticed the past 3 years is a growing population of the Silver Pike ... now they represent about 30% of the Pike we are catching through the ice ... a noticeable difference. we release all of them and only take the normal pike under 28 ... the bigger of all go back in. it's a great Pike fishery too ...
Edited by jonnysled 2/19/2015 8:33 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Sue and I fish that water weekly in the soft water season. The fishing is nothing short of fantastic, just not for walleyes. I don't fish it for muskies, but get a few every year on Creatures fishing bass.
We used to ice fish it for walleyes, and caught both numbers and size. We still have the tip-ups down, and still are jigging, but bass have replaced walleyes almost exactly in the catch ratio and size. |
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| CiscoKid - 2/17/2015 6:27 PM
ToddM - 2/17/2015 6:18 PM
I keep bringing this up because you seem to indicate trolling =automatic success. It does not.
That is not my intent at all, and I am well aware that trolling is not easy and mindless. There are plenty of unethical, meat hunter type anglers that are very good fisherman. They will do well trolling as well, and that is my concern.
So because of some unethical fishermen, we should should deny everyone else the opportunity to troll? This not a technique problem. Its a social problem. Call the wardens. I have a cabin near Eagle River and know this is a problem. But when the editor of the Vilas County Review in response to the panfish limits says we go to hot lake until the bite dyes and then move onto the next lake, its tough to get anything to change. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Millsie1 - 2/19/2015 9:40 AM
CiscoKid - 2/17/2015 6:27 PM
ToddM - 2/17/2015 6:18 PM
I keep bringing this up because you seem to indicate trolling =automatic success. It does not.
That is not my intent at all, and I am well aware that trolling is not easy and mindless. There are plenty of unethical, meat hunter type anglers that are very good fisherman. They will do well trolling as well, and that is my concern.
So because of some unethical fishermen, we should should deny everyone else the opportunity to troll?
YES, if it means protecting a fishery until the other issues can get in check! I am not concerned about making it fair for everyone and limiting opportunity. I am concerned about the fishery first as we all should.
Those "some unethical fisherman", unfortunately, are more than just some. |
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| Millsie1 - 2/19/2015 9:40 AM
CiscoKid - 2/17/2015 6:27 PM
ToddM - 2/17/2015 6:18 PM
I keep bringing this up because you seem to indicate trolling =automatic success. It does not.
That is not my intent at all, and I am well aware that trolling is not easy and mindless. There are plenty of unethical, meat hunter type anglers that are very good fisherman. They will do well trolling as well, and that is my concern.
So because of some unethical fishermen, we should should deny everyone else the opportunity to troll? This not a technique problem. Its a social problem. Call the wardens. I have a cabin near Eagle River and know this is a problem. But when the editor of the Vilas County Review in response to the panfish limits says we go to hot lake until the bite dyes and then move onto the next lake, its tough to get anything to change.
There are many problems we are facing, all of which are a potential detriment to the fisheries. Spearing, tribal harvest, lack of stocking, lack of fish to stock, lack of money for either, angler harvest, delayed mortality, low size limits, limited natural reproduction, lack of enforcement, disregard for the laws, catch-and-eat mentality, AIS, increasing angling pressure, removal of spawning habitat, shoreline development...
One can call the wardens when we see abuse taking place. But they are so few and far between that by the time someone can get out there, the offenders are long gone.
Our goal for the future should be to improve those fisheries. With the myriad of problems we are facing, that are difficult if not impossible to deal with? Trolling will just provide more people with more opportunities to catch (and eat) more fish. That's not a problem is most areas where the fish will be replaced and the ecosystems will still thrive because the money exists to make that happen.
Many of the N. WI lakes have the potential to be amazing fisheries. If we could correct even a few of the other issues, I'd say troll away. I'd do it. But at this point, opening up trolling would just be another nail in the coffin. |
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Location: oswego, il | As my earlier argument stated, catching not the issue, keeping is. |
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| "YES, if it means protecting a fishery until the other issues can get in check! I am not concerned about making it fair for everyone and limiting opportunity. I am concerned about the fishery first as we all should.
Those "some unethical fisherman", unfortunately, are more than just some."
So, are you saying this is more of a problem in WI than MN? |
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| ARmuskyaddict - 2/19/2015 1:18 PM
"YES, if it means protecting a fishery until the other issues can get in check! I am not concerned about making it fair for everyone and limiting opportunity. I am concerned about the fishery first as we all should.
Those "some unethical fisherman", unfortunately, are more than just some."
So, are you saying this is more of a problem in WI than MN?
I don't know how much of a problem it is in MN, but the farther North you go in WI, the more you seem to encounter folks, especially locals, who think it's their God given right to eat every fish they catch. And if you even mention catch and release, protecting the resource, conservation, size limits, etc.?? You get an earful about how the DNR doesn't know what they are doing, how the laws are B.S., how the wardens are stupid... There's not a lot of respect for law enforcement, or law. If you push further you get the "these are MY fish" argument, and a lot of griping about how the Indians would spear and net them all anyway, and if anybody is going to eat them, it's ME.
There are conservationists, and muskies inc guys, and a few others who understand. But there are a lot more who will simply say that they've been eating fish and catching fish and eating fish forever, and the problem is the Indians and/or tourists, and the people who make the laws and enforce the laws can go pound sand.
Entitlement mentality at its finest...
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Let's look at reality. Most of the lakes I fish for walleyes have a two fish limit, a few are one over 14" and one under. A few are two over 15". A few are 2 over 18" (not going to happen).
Trolling to catch my 2 fish or casting...it's two fish. Either way, if we want to catch two and keep them, we will and can jigging or 'position fishing'.
Most of the time we just don't fish walleyes if we are looking for a fish dinner. Bass are far more numerous and we are encouraged to keep 5. In some places, there is no size limit either. Bluegills and crappies offer lots of opportunity too, and we self limit to a half a limit for one person most days if we are keeping fish, as there's no need to freeze a bunch living up here.
I cast for muskies. I don't keep any. If I trolled for them, I'd not keep any. I think that's the majority of the muskie anglers up here.
Basin fish are already being cpr'd....regularly. Big soft plastic lures are doing the job for those who know the how and where. So all trolling really would do up here is break tradition. It's not a real biological threat to the fisheries, it's just a different way to catch fish. if you let 'em go...there's no worries. The idea every meat hound on the planet will descend upon the waters and keep every muskie they catch is weak, because they (the meat hounds) simply are not there, or we'd see 'em and the DNR would creel 'em. The poor guy who creeled Lake George a couple years ago was nearly driven mad from boredom. One can only keep one walleye over 14" on George, and one over. Who cares how I catch 'em?
The really interesting thing is we can't even get people to harvest bass up here. Either they don't know they can, or think there's some magical limit, or think they 'taste bad'.
Pike are numerous, and lots of folks keep them no matter how little, to 'pickle'. Yuck. Some lakes here need a Pike slot limit. Probably will never happen out of worries about walleye NR and stocked fish survival. We grow really big Pike up here, they just have a tough time getting by the winter anglers.
Harvest worries about Bluegills yes, crappies yes, bass no. Walleyes limited to two. No real issue other than trolling hasn't been going on up here and quite a few folks don't want it to. In a way I can't blame them.
There is no 'place' where folks violate more than others other than the fact the water with fish in it is here. Most of the time overharvest arrests are out of town folks.
The tough thing is the roving crowds looking for a hot panfish bite, summer, winter, all seasons. It's hard to keep a good panny bite a secret. So, the lakes cycle with a 5 to 6 year deal where peak, too many anglers, tougher fishing but still really good, wait a few years and peak again...and so on. The only really amazing water for pannies that just kkeps kicking them out is Minocqua, and that, I believe, is because all the ice anglers fish in one small area of each main portion. I am pretty much alone fishing pannies there in the open water. I almost never see anyone else fishing crappies. |
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Location: north central wisconsin |
"But when the editor of the Vilas County Review in response to the panfish limits says we go to hot lake until the bite dyes and then move onto the next lake, its tough to get anything to change."
Thanks you. As an avid panfisherman that has seen a definate decline in quality fishing on many lakes(not all) in my area based on harvest, I completely agree. While I am no hypocrite, keeping a meal when I can, I was 'trained' by my father to lake hop when I was a child, to give spots a break. With the advent of electronics and ice fishing comfort, there has been a serious increase in intelligent pressure around here devoted to cathing panfish. I love the ice fishing revolution, but I truly applaud the DNR for proposing several test lakes/bag limits over the next few years(perhaps someone with more knowledge on that can tell me if it's going to happen or not). There is no mistaking that when I trek back into difficult to reach or private ponds/resevoirs, I have my best shot at multiple giant bluegills on a consistant basis. There is also no mistaking that there is still great panfishing all over the state and that it isn't broken. Just saying that as someone with a family that loves a frequent meal of panfish, I will delight in only being allowed to keep 10-15 fish, vs being one of the very few on the lake that 'chooses' to now.
To stick with the topic, as a multi county/state/country fisherman without a true dog in the fight, I'd be considered in favor of the trolling proposal. Having fished open to trolling Rusk/Price/Sawyer counties in addition to other states and Canada for years which contain several small, pelagic species containing, gin bottles, I can't say that the fishing is worse on their lakes than in places where it is not allowed. Like jlong, I would like to drag some crawler harnesses with the kids on a few of my local lakes where it is not currently allowed. I've always advocated that there could/should be more lakes or chains that no motorized traffic should be allowed, to allow for the tranquil experience. Again I'm not a demanding advocate either way. Great discussion guys, and thanks for keeping it civil.
Edited by Reef Hawg 2/19/2015 8:40 PM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i caught bluegills on Pelican Lake Orr, MN. in the 80's and early 90's and then on a farm pond over by Detroit Lakes, MN. in the early 2000's ... it wrecked me for life and for some strange reason the MN bluegills just dwarf anything I've encountered in WI ever and I fish em pretty hard at times. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Vermilion has some giant gills too, sled. There's great fishing for big gills all over this area, but they are not at all easy to find and catch. Great challenge.
I really try hard to find and catch bluegills I can 'lip'. |
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Location: north central wisconsin | jonnysled - 2/19/2015 8:38 PM
i caught bluegills on Pelican Lake Orr, MN. in the 80's and early 90's and then on a farm pond over by Detroit Lakes, MN. in the early 2000's ... it wrecked me for life and for some strange reason the MN bluegills just dwarf anything I've encountered in WI ever and I fish em pretty hard at times.
Agreed, having also fished MN alot for multi species up in the north, we were amazed at the magnum gills we'd get. Interesting that nobody was seemingly targeting them. Seemed there were plenty of walleyes and perch to keep most of the locals busy, while my dad cranked the gills out of the cabbage all day. Also, like alot of the U.P. lakes, I believe that winter snow conditions are typically such that don't allow for the winter harvest fest of other areas. We have some big gill opportunites, but on many waters alot of the weedline dwellers get picked over. Best way to guage a lake is to get out there and do some catch and release fishing when they are on their beds just to see what is in there, then you'll know.
Edited by Reef Hawg 2/19/2015 8:51 PM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | ones i'm talking about you can hardly get your hand around em and i got fingers as long as john holmes ... :0)
never seen any here like em ... it's one thing to be long, but tall too with width. phriggin huge ...
may have to check out Vermillion, but Orr is just down the road ... great place to fish if anyone hasn't been there and needs a trip for kids. good smallies too ... |
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Location: north central wisconsin | Yes, there are 10" gills in the typical clear lakes, but alot of them are 'all tail' as my buddy puts it. There are places where big round ones roam, but are not typically with the little guys on the same waters, either spot or depth, and I would like to say I've been on em this year but I really haven't. That's probably why I'm more inclined to tell you where I caught a Musky than a bucket of big Gills. Truly big gills are what keeps me awake at night though, and consume me this time of the year. Good luck man!
Edited by Reef Hawg 2/19/2015 9:09 PM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | yup, i've caught 10 inchers here ... not the same as those i'm talking about.
willing to put on a blindfold and travel ... will buy libations LOL |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The bonus on the big gills in Vermilion are 12" to 15" crappies mixed in. Beat up on 'em last year after refining the presentation.
Got some beauties in North Dakota a couple weeks ago. Total hand covers a couple inches thick. I will be back there.... |
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Location: one foot over the line | Sled, if that is true, I have an idea for you.... and i am real thirsty. Could also include many many green-backs, a bunch of brown-backs and a shot at a giant flathead or two, etc, etc.
Edited by beerforthemuskygods 2/19/2015 9:24 PM
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Location: oswego, il | When talking about the vermillion panfish, we are talking about the west end. East side has perch but have not found any nice ones. The big gills, pumkinseeds, crappies and perch were on the west side. We did well using the smallest beetle spin made, use a gulp alive maggot or 1" grub for the body and two spilt shots about a foot in front for depth and.casting distance. Slow move it back. Light tackle lots of fun, panfish love it. So does the occasional pike. My youngest son got a mid thirty on that tiny little spinnerbait. |
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Location: north central wisconsin | Were the gills in or near weeds on V? Were the crappies found with them in the sun in weeds, or were they showing up better in lower light? Vertical presentation/floats for either or both? Pitching tubes or spin'n jigs too? Good stuff. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | sworrall - 2/19/2015 8:16 PM
Let's look at reality. Most of the lakes I fish for walleyes have a two fish limit, a few are one over 14" and one under. A few are two over 15". A few are 2 over 18" (not going to happen).
Trolling to catch my 2 fish or casting...it's two fish. Either way, if we want to catch two and keep them, we will and can jigging or 'position fishing'.
There is no 'place' where folks violate more than others other than the fact the water with fish in it is here. Most of the time overharvest arrests are out of town folks.
I disagree Steve, and that is why I am expressing my concern. Take Anvil Lake over by me for example. It has had a slot on it for quite a while for walleyes. Used to be a great lake to catch walleyes within the slot. That was until I watched property owners during the opener catch, and keep, every fish they caught. I found it odd as We had a tough time catching a "keeper" as most were within the slot. They would eventually head to shore with their limit, and a few hours later were right back out on the lake. Some of them I never saw release a fish. So not only did they keep every fish they kept, and I am sure a lot that were in the slot that had to go back, but they also kept more than there allotted 2/3 (I don't remember anymore if it was 2 or three fish) fish.
Again I hope I am wrong. Trolling will become legal. Hopefully we don't have to sit on here and debate on how best to protect the resource 10 years from now. It is much easier to be proactive than reactive. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Kentuck walleyes were gone in a year ... and it was anglers who did it, not the folks the anglers continually blame. |
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Location: oswego, il | Travis, did you report them? Fisherman follow hot bites of all kinds. Poachers do as well. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | jonnysled - 2/20/2015 6:36 AM
Kentuck walleyes were gone in a year ... and it was anglers who did it, not the folks the anglers continually blame.
Yep |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | ToddM - 2/20/2015 6:42 AM
Travis, did you report them? Fisherman follow hot bites of all kinds. Poachers do as well.
No. At that time I had no cell phone. I haven't been back since getting one as the last few times I was there the walleye fishing was terrible.
I saw the same non-sense on Kentuck Lake as well as a few others.
Edited by CiscoKid 2/20/2015 8:07 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Travis,
Anyone over limiting won't necessarily be better at it trolling and is breaking the law.
Keith creeled all winter long on popular walleye lakes for a decade. He rarely saw over bagging, and there's way more pressure on the ice from the 'slovenly underclass' we seem to be concerned with. He ran a big sled, came up on folks unannounced, and creeled from pretty much sunup to sundown and just didn't see much of it. What he did see was a TON of ice anglers.
I suppose we should ban SI and DI sonars. That actually, as crazy as it sounds, was discussed some years ago. Spot lock on trolling motors, bad for fishing because it allows incredible boat control and folks will catch more fish. And so on. Ban guns, and people won't be killed. Guns don't kill people, people do. No smokepole season for Whitetails, we just don't do that up here, and all the deer will be killed. Wait, maybe we should not have reintroduced wolves and not allowed the wholesale slaughter of the herd in T zones and special hunts. Crossbows are not 'fair'.
It's all 'social' argument.
This will not be an issue with walleyes, especially if the initiative underway is completed and WI stocks walleyes where needed again. The walleye fishing sucks u here on quite a few lakes, and it's not because of trolling. It's poor NR and almost zero stocking. Same with Muskies.....Pelican stinks when compared to the 80's and early 90's when stocking was nuts and harvest was too...because no stocking occurred for over a decade and NR isn't great.
I fish all over N MN, lots of little lakes where trolling has always been allowed, and the fishing was and still is really good. The folks up North in MN over-limit too. At least there the state didn't have to ask the public's permission to place a reasonable limit on crappies.
It won't be a significant biological issue with Muskies either. It's just going to change what we are used to up here and annoy folks who don't want another boat within 100 feet, even idling by. I know I'll need to adjust my attitude.
The fish don't care. And the sky isn't falling.
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Location: MN | I've fished a lot in MN and WI and I would say there is a much lower rate of selective harvest from WI folks. There are plenty of meat hogs in MN too I just see more of it in WI.
The good news is it seems the practice of selective harvest is gaining momentum, especially from the younger generation. Most people seem to understand the concept for walleyes but it isn't as common with panfish and pike but hopefully that will change in time. I think all the talk about CPR on forums and fishing shows (IDO, Uncut Angling, etc) is helping spread the word. |
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Location: Already Gone | Impose an Optional $100 per season Trolling Sticker for the boat.
Big, Blaze Orange....
All proceeds go directly to Stocking Programs for the county purchased in.
Everyone has an option, pay to play.
Edited by Mark Hoerich 2/20/2015 11:08 AM
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Location: Already Gone | And that Steve...is a great post. You hit it on the head.
Edited by Mark Hoerich 2/20/2015 11:12 AM
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| I agree with Travis on the walleye deal, there will be a lot of harvest of the big females now that they will be accessible year around vs the post spawn period. Muskies get pressure out in the basins now and they are released but when folks start figuring out how EASY is it to pick of these giant footballs on Tomahawk, Big Arb, Trout all summer long you bet they'll be keeping them for stringer mounts, cabin mounts, many will eat them. I can see the guides really promoting this pattern as well and it will bring more tourism up north because there are so many walleye anglers down here in the valley that just lick their chops at the thought of trolling up north for them. With little NR and limited stocking the lakes will take a beating.
Edited by Mr Musky 2/20/2015 11:34 AM
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Location: oswego, il | I agree with Steve. Pay to play, should we get casting permit too? Those walleyes are year round accessible within the season of coarse. They can be found with today's sonar no problem. Given the option of a crankbait, crawler harness or gulp alive, I pick gulp alive. The bite is and has always been there to try.
As far as guides go, they now have another tool for clients to catch fish. Is the argument that there are plenty of unethical guides up north?
Edited by ToddM 2/20/2015 2:28 PM
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| Todd, there are unethical guides everywhere. I'd venture to say that there are a lot more unethical guides in places where you can't expect to fill your schedule. Without a big name and a line of lures to promote, many of the less-known guides likely struggle to earn enough to make their boat and truck payments, much less feed their families. In an area where the job prospects are few-to-none, for a lot of guys, it's guiding or... Well, pretty much nothing. Putting a fish in the boat at any cost in hopes that your clients will hire you again becomes a lot more important than it is when you're a big name and your calendar fills up anyway.
If there was stronger natural reproduction, and much more substantial stocking, harvest and delayed mortality wouldn't be as much of an issue. But as it stands now, the fish aren't being replaced nearly on the level at which they are being harvested.
It's a slippery slope on how to fix it. Tourism dollars are a very important part of the local economies. If you start charging more for licenses, boat tags, or implementing permit fees for this and that? A lot of those folks may just go elsewhere, especially when your fisheries are not what they once were and not getting any better.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Mr Musky - 2/20/2015 11:32 AM
I agree with Travis on the walleye deal, there will be a lot of harvest of the big females now that they will be accessible year around vs the post spawn period. Muskies get pressure out in the basins now and they are released but when folks start figuring out how EASY is it to pick of these giant footballs on Tomahawk, Big Arb, Trout all summer long you bet they'll be keeping them for stringer mounts, cabin mounts, many will eat them. I can see the guides really promoting this pattern as well and it will bring more tourism up north because there are so many walleye anglers down here in the valley that just lick their chops at the thought of trolling up north for them. With little NR and limited stocking the lakes will take a beating.
It's amazing, trolling will take us back to the 70's. I had no idea time travel was so simple.
What makes those big fish inaccessible now? Basin casters beat that population up pretty well over the last decade. Release rates up here are in the mid 90% range. Because trolling will become legal with one line, now the huddled masses will take it up, perfect the presentation, and kill everything? Why hasn't that happened anywhere else?
'Allot of harvest of the big females'...does trolling becoming legal somehow make people expert trollers and able to catch all the Muskies no one ever sees otherwise? No one ever sees them? That's weird.
Guess what the hot 'big walleye' bite was across the country last year...
It wasn't trolling. It was finding big walleyes on the sonar using SI or SC (depending on brand) out on deep structure or basin, stopping and casting rip jigs at them.
Casting Moonshine or Rapala ice lures or rip jigging rubble piles you couldn't troll across effectively boated some real giants even where folks didn't think there were many. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | TGFSW |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | esoxaddict - 2/20/2015 3:32 PM
Todd, there are unethical guides everywhere. I'd venture to say that there are a lot more unethical guides in places where you can't expect to fill your schedule. Without a big name and a line of lures to promote, many of the less-known guides likely struggle to earn enough to make their boat and truck payments, much less feed their families. In an area where the job prospects are few-to-none, for a lot of guys, it's guiding or... Well, pretty much nothing. Putting a fish in the boat at any cost in hopes that your clients will hire you again becomes a lot more important than it is when you're a big name and your calendar fills up anyway.
Sorry EA but I think it is unfair to make these statements about the lesser known guides. Fame has nothing to do with ethics. |
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| "What makes those big fish inaccessible now? Basin casters beat that population up pretty well over the last decade. Release rates up here are in the mid 90% range. Because trolling will become legal with one line, now the huddled masses will take it up, perfect the presentation, and kill everything? Why hasn't that happened anywhere else?
'Allot of harvest of the big females'...does trolling becoming legal somehow make people expert trollers and able to catch all the Muskies no one ever sees otherwise? No one ever sees them? That's weird."
Steve im talking WALLEYES IN THE BASIN not muskies. You mean to tell me there's guys casting cranks out in the basins for giant walleyes and rip jigging out there? I have yet to see a guy do it in my area. Every walleye guy is parked on structure. 90% release rate on giant eyes up north? Where do you get that info from? I highly doubt if it is 65%.
Edited by Mr Musky 2/20/2015 4:45 PM
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | sworrall - 2/20/2015 8:50 AM
Guns don't kill people, people do.
Exactly. Trolling will not ruin a fishery, but people will. The DNR shouldn't have given extra tags as people cannot control themselves, and they shouldn't open up trolling for the same reason. Until you can get it under control (selective harvest and over bagging) you shouldn't give them another tool which could make it easier to harvest walleyes in special cases. Notice I said could and not would.
Creel surveying makes for a poor argument on the health of a fishery, and a sign of fishing ethics unless they are run differently by you than me. I have only been "surveyed"on two lakes by me in 20+ years. Each for only a year. One was Kentuck when they opened the walleyes back up for harvest, and the other was Twin. In neither case were they there at the crack of dawn, nor past dark. So if you did anything you thought shady it was easily avoidable by either leaving the water before they got there, or waited until they left. With walleye bites usually being best early morning and late evening into the night during summer it is the best times that are not getting captured in the creel survey. Also both lakes have more than one landing, and there was only one person on one of those landings. Therefore the others went unchecked. Creel surveys also do not capture those with cabins on the lake, and in a prior post I specifically expressed concern over those anglers. There is also no follow up creel survey in a reasonable amount of time on the same body of water. This would be necessary to get a good feel and handle on what is happening on lakes.
There just isn't a whole lot going on by me by the way of lake surveys. Either that or I am fishing when they are not around. Either way to use creel surveys as an argument here holds no validity. Maybe send Keith my way for a few years.
Several lakes I know have prime open water bites mid summer. I am talking 3-8' down over 40+ feet of water. I stumbled into it while night fishing suspended muskies. These were BIG walleyes. This is the pattern that I am afraid will get exploited and mis-treated with the use of trolling. Maybe not as who thinks to run that high while walleye fishing.
There is a reason a lot of walleyes fisheries collapsed, and I don't feel it has a lot to do with stocking or the lack thereof or the spearing. Lots of lakes have natural reproduction, but only if the large females are allowed to live. Take too many too quickly, and you are left with what we have got.
What came first, the chicken or the egg? What was the downfall to Minocqua. Was it the bass, or was it anglers harvesting too much therefore letting the bass to thrive and take over. Not letting the walleyes come back.
As far as we practice catch and release anyway, and shouldn't worry. The more fish you catch, and the more times you catch a fish, the more probability you have of that fish succumbing to delayed mortality. Take Kentuck for example again. The boom of the Tiger musky let out of the bag. The hot bite chasers came in droves to get their piece of the pie as Tigers are cool. They were, for the most part, released when caught. They can only take so much of that. How many Tigers are caught each year out of Kentuck now?
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| Pontoon trollers "honey grab the kids and the ciscoe kids we can now do laps all day long for skis"
The postman and his 25ft pontoon is movin over from mile lacs pronto. There's fib money on the footage to be had
Edited by happy hooker 2/20/2015 5:46 PM
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| CiscoKid - 2/20/2015 4:15 PM
esoxaddict - 2/20/2015 3:32 PM
Sorry EA but I think it is unfair to make these statements about the lesser known guides. Fame has nothing to do with ethics.
They're not all bad, don't get me wrong. I've had more than one call off a day because the water was too hot. But when you're famous and under a microscope, you have to adhere to the highest standards. Guiding out of a resort that you own on a lesser known lake in a lesser traveled area puts one under a lot less scrutiny. I think that's where the tendency arises to bend the rules a bit. Or even a lot.
You're right on another point. Some of the worst offenders are the landowners. I don't get it. Why fill the freezer when the fish are right outside your door? We fish until we get hungry. Then we keep a few for supper and we go eat them. The only thing we keep outside that is a few nice gills to go with our eggs the next morning. Gotta have bluegills and eggs!
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Location: Already Gone | happy hooker - 2/20/2015 5:42 PM
Pontoon trollers "honey grab the kids and the ciscoe kids we can now do laps all day long for skis"
The postman and his 25ft pontoon is movin over from mile lacs pronto. There's fib money on the footage to be had :)
Whoomp there it is...I blame the Fibs for everything! |
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| We better stop fishing. It's bad for the fish. |
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| Some property owners feel they own the lakes and the fish in them, heck some feel they own the structure in the lake! A couple years ago Travis and I got chewed out for casting musky baits towards the cribs that the local landowners anchor up on each nite to fill their livewells. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | As a property owner I'd be happy if some fisherman (and you know who you are) would quit bouncing lures off my boat, engine, and dock. I don't own the lake, but those things I do own.
I get that you want to fish the dock and that's cool, just please keep the lures in the water. Alternatively, I suppose I could walk out to the dock and start chucking pounders. I guarantee you my aim is better than yours ! |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Mr Musky - 2/20/2015 4:32 PM
"What makes those big fish inaccessible now? Basin casters beat that population up pretty well over the last decade. Release rates up here are in the mid 90% range. Because trolling will become legal with one line, now the huddled masses will take it up, perfect the presentation, and kill everything? Why hasn't that happened anywhere else?
'Allot of harvest of the big females'...does trolling becoming legal somehow make people expert trollers and able to catch all the Muskies no one ever sees otherwise? No one ever sees them? That's weird."
Steve im talking WALLEYES IN THE BASIN not muskies. You mean to tell me there's guys casting cranks out in the basins for giant walleyes and rip jigging out there? I have yet to see a guy do it in my area. Every walleye guy is parked on structure. 90% release rate on giant eyes up north? Where do you get that info from? I highly doubt if it is 65%.
The release rate quoted is for muskies.
The mythical schools of 'giant walleyes in the basin' as far as catching them right now, they are being caught if they are there in any number. Most of the folks up here I know feel bad keeping one over 26 or so, and quite a few are released now. It's getting better, and is no where near as bad as the overblown stuff in this thread would make you believe.
The lakes up here ain't that big, you can see across most of them. Position and drift fishermen have that figured out already. Casting cranks? Where did you get that? Rip jigging...yes, you had better believe it. Incredibly effective, and you target the fish on SI or DI you want to catch...and catch it.
Should ban that...fast.
Far as trolling goes, I can do with...or without it. Either way, the fisheries will not be impacted much. We need better, more progressive management. Only reason we havn't had that is money. The State was and still is broke.
Geez, the fishing in the entire rest of the country must suck awful, because the entire rest of the country can troll. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | CiscoKid - 2/20/2015 4:49 PM sworrall - 2/20/2015 8:50 AM
Guns don't kill people, people do.
Exactly. Trolling will not ruin a fishery, but people will. The DNR shouldn't have given extra tags as people cannot control themselves, and they shouldn't open up trolling for the same reason. Until you can get it under control (selective harvest and over bagging ) you shouldn't give them another tool which could make it easier to harvest walleyes in special cases. Notice I said could and not would.
The sky is falling, the sky is falling...maybe. Where else is this a problem where trolling is allowed?As far as the Tzone and extra doe tags, the DNR wanted those deer killed. Wolves and a beyond belief nasty winter put us in a corner that won't be easy to get out of. In other words, stuff happens.Creel surveying makes for a poor argument on the health of a fishery, and a sign of fishing ethics unless they are run differently by you than me. I have only been "surveyed"on two lakes by me in 20+ years. Each for only a year. One was Kentuck when they opened the walleyes back up for harvest, and the other was Twin. In neither case were they there at the crack of dawn, nor past dark. So if you did anything you thought shady it was easily avoidable by either leaving the water before they got there, or waited until they left. With walleye bites usually being best early morning and late evening into the night during summer it is the best times that are not getting captured in the creel survey. Also both lakes have more than one landing, and there was only one person on one of those landings. Therefore the others went unchecked. Creel surveys also do not capture those with cabins on the lake, and in a prior post I specifically expressed concern over those anglers. There is also no follow up creel survey in a reasonable amount of time on the same body of water. This would be necessary to get a good feel and handle on what is happening on lakes. Keith was creeling in the winter, as I said. He was there very early, and left after dark. Hard to run a snowmobile on open water, don't you think? he checked people randomly, and always went to anyone he could see moving or heading in, and was extremely efficient in hitting a very high percentage of the folks on the ice that day. I know, I fished quite a few of the lakes he creeled. Later each season he was responsible for setting and running nets to gather walleye and muskie roe for the hatchery as one of two crews, and then stripped suckers to raise and then feed them. He knew how many were raised and where the fish were stocked. Then he want to the shocking boats for several weeks, which was repeated in the fall looking for surviving walleyes from stocking and NR.
There just isn't a whole lot going on by me by the way of lake surveys. Either that or I am fishing when they are not around. Either way to use creel surveys as an argument here holds no validity. Maybe send Keith my way for a few years.
And your claims hold validity over creel surveys checking hundreds of anglers...how? Your powers of observation? Or is this all 'I am afraid this might happen' stuff? You had no clue what else Keith was doing or when, so I hope that's clearer now. Interesting work that he enjoyed, he just plain ruined his body doing that and trout stream reclamation and the pay frankly didn't do much for his family so he decided to go to work for OFM. I'm glad he did, but the Woodruff crew misses him.
Several lakes I know have prime open water bites mid summer. I am talking 3-8' down over 40+ feet of water. I stumbled into it while night fishing suspended muskies. These were BIG walleyes. This is the pattern that I am afraid will get exploited and mis-treated with the use of trolling. Maybe not as who thinks to run that high while walleye fishing. That's a common deal over deep water. The walleyes are frequently very high in the water column even mid day.
There is a reason a lot of walleyes fisheries collapsed, and I don't feel it has a lot to do with stocking or the lack thereof or the spearing. Lots of lakes have natural reproduction, but only if the large females are allowed to live. Take too many too quickly, and you are left with what we have got. You are seriously misinformed. The decline of the population in Minocqua was during the time Keith was working as a fish tech up in Woodruff. I think sled already covered what's wrong there. He has it right. Spearing, harvest from anglers, bad spawning habitat and reduced NR, and a #*^@ed poor stocking budget to keep up with it all is and has been the issue. That's why the new 'initiative', which is really restoring part of the budget when you remove the rhetoric.
What came first, the chicken or the egg? What was the downfall to Minocqua. Was it the bass, or was it anglers harvesting too much therefore letting the bass to thrive and take over. Not letting the walleyes come back.
The bass are thriving as much due to environmental positives including warmer and more fertile water, perfect bass spawning substrate, and the fact very few anglers keep them. If that chain was managed as a big LMB fishery, it would be UNREAL in a couple years. Already is if you are willing to fish out of the box a bit. The idea walleyes will be able to reduce the LMB population was roundly poo pooed by Dave N. a couple years back, and I think he is right, the decline of the walleye fishery and increase in LMB on the Chip mirrored what happened on Minocqua, you would not believe what happened in a couple years.
As far as we practice catch and release anyway, and shouldn't worry. The more fish you catch, and the more times you catch a fish, the more probability you have of that fish succumbing to delayed mortality. Take Kentuck for example again. The boom of the Tiger musky let out of the bag. The hot bite chasers came in droves to get their piece of the pie as Tigers are cool. They were, for the most part, released when caught. They can only take so much of that. How many Tigers are caught each year out of Kentuck now?
I don't know. Do you? So now we shouldn't catch fish? Where does this madness end?
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Location: minocqua, wi. | so, if there are so many tactics that are so wonderful then why do people want to troll? ... so far it's been argued as not effective and really hard to do.
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Location: minocqua, wi. | to echo what Steve says above ... the DNR presentation compared the effect of a smaller number of big females vs. a large stocked population of 15-18" females and put the logic out that although they believe in the big female thing, the shear number of smaller fish (if allowed to spawn) make a bigger impact on the NR of the population so they are out to protect the early spawners and not focused on the big females.
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Location: north central wisconsin | I completely agree with Steve on this one, in the terms that trolling will definately not destroy the fisheries. I live on a system that has been one of the top walleye systems in the state since the late 1960's. Trolling has been legal here forever. The bottom dropped out of this fishery that ranges from 80 acre mill ponds to the second largest lake in the state(Petenwell flowage), in the mid to late 90's and the walleye population left decimated, by years of promoting it as an endless resource with contests held during the spawn. These fish were taken casting/jigging, and to a lesser degree, trolling. In 2000 a slot limit was proposed and put in place the following year, where it has been now made relatively permanent from Tomahawk down to the confuence of the mississippi give or take a stretch here or there. There are now big females available again, though still far fewer 15-19" legal fish. The same type of regulation was put into place on a few of the local inland lakes with liited NR. The fishery has rebounded not because of a change in tactics or people leaving the fishery alone, but through regulation change.
Allow the fisheries managers to progressively manage their systems up there, and much more will be done to preserve and rehabilitate those fisheries, than not allowing someone to fish a certain way with the thought it will be made worse than it already is. Please, take a look outside the borders of Forest, Vilas and Oneida counties and put some effort into some regs that protect big fish unilaterally, no matter how they're caught. Lots of 100-? acre ciscoe dwelling potholes in MN that allow trolling with fisheries in fine shape. Why are the same types of lakes in two counties of WI so vastly different than those in other parts of the world in terms of vulnerability? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | set lines anyone? ... start saving milk jugs? |
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Location: north central wisconsin | Growing up, when we had our place in vilas on Pioneer Lake, the outlaw gang out of the resort that tried their best and succeeded to diminish the walleye population, refered to them as 'snow tipups'. Same gang that made sure the kept division in the Vilas county musky marathon had plenty of entries. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | jonnysled - 2/21/2015 6:40 AM
so, if there are so many tactics that are so wonderful then why do people want to troll? ... so far it's been argued as not effective and really hard to do.
You already know the answer to that one. It's a popular method of fishing. Entire sections of sporting goods stores offer fishing products dedicated to the method.
If the N Wisconsin walleye population was 'fished out' as some folks claim, I'd say the methods in place catch fish pretty well. What's the difference how fish are caught if management is not keeping up with harvest...which is the problem?
Arguments against that are based in reality and supported by fisheries folks:
1) A substantial number of people in the North do not want trolling to be legal
Arguments for supported by fisheries folks:
1) Trolling is not a threat to the fisheries as is obvious when comparing the fishery in the no trolling zone to the fisheries where trolling is allowed
2) A substantial number of folks want to use the technique and voted in the majority to have trolling legalized
3) It's legal in the rest of this state, so it would, with some adjustments to appease the folks who don't like the technique as used in other areas of Wisconsin and objected to too many lines ( that's me), standardize the state regs
4) It would finally remove the 'gray area' (not gray at all, but some folks always claim it is) of pulling a sucker for muskies
A possible reasonable analogy to those who don't want trolling because it will harm already low fisheries populations:
How to manage a low population by limiting technique or limiting harvest...deer
A) There are fewer deer in Northern WI, the population is low due to wolves and a very bad winter, so rifle and crossbow hunting in several zones will be against the law in 2015 reducing the harvest of does and bucks accordingly, OR all archery hunting will be banned.
B) Regulate the harvest of does by not allowing many to be harvested, buck harvest will not effect the rebuilding of the herd
Both would work.
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| Trolling sticker like a trout stamp isnt a bad idea IMO. All proceeds should go back to stocking and education. |
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Location: north central wisconsin | achotrod - 2/21/2015 12:10 PM
Trolling sticker like a trout stamp isnt a bad idea IMO. All proceeds should go back to stocking and education.
Why would it be a good idea? So now I have to buy a deer license, but pay more because I have a compound bow instead of a recurve? If the compound has 80% let-off, I have to give $1.00 to the state stewardship fund? I can smell what you're stepping in here, but a stamp to allow trolling? How about a stamp for ice fishing walleyes all night for several days, taking shifts on each others tip-ups for an entire weekend. I'd argue a stamp to fish for and harvest bluegills on their beds may have more positive impact.. |
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| I dont care about hunting and it has nothing to do with trolling. A stamp would keep a lot of people from trolling and the ones that do pay are putting back into the waters they are taking fish from. Its a win win imo. Same with a trout stamp. I dont fish for them so I never bought a trout stamp, but if there were a trolling permit I would buy one.
BTW got my first H2o tackle bait yesterday! Looking forward to trolling with it! |
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| how about a $100 stamp to vote in Cons. Congress hearings if you're not a fish or big game biologist...
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Location: north central wisconsin | The hunting argument has more to do with that type of suggestion than you might think. Other than having no sound science supporting it, a trolling stamp sounds like a great idea from a financial standpoint. As someone that spends alot of hours working on stocking and ways to pay for it, I am all for supporting the resource any way I can. However, stamps are now purchased by folks not already paying to use that particular resource. If stocking funds are the issue, I'd be for raising the fishing license fees for all users. I wouldn't blink an eye at $30 per year, and doubt others would complain much either, provided it gets spent properly.. I paid more than that to take the kids bowling the other day, and I couldn't get a strike with the bumpers up. And the jukebox was stuck on hit hits from 1992. I'm Rick Astley'd out.
Which crank? cranky nitro, or the deep diver? Rogers stuff is very nice, and productive.
Edited by Reef Hawg 2/21/2015 3:34 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | M Winther - 2/21/2015 2:37 PM
how about a $100 stamp to vote in Cons. Congress hearings if you're not a fish or big game biologist...
I'd support this one. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | sworrall - 2/21/2015 2:49 PM
M Winther - 2/21/2015 2:37 PM
how about a $100 stamp to vote in Cons. Congress hearings if you're not a fish or big game biologist...
I'd support this one.
I'd support this too if the same criteria were applied to the role of Secretary of the DNR. |
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| Reef Hawg - 2/21/2015 2:41 PM
The hunting argument has more to do with that type of suggestion than you might think. Other than having no sound science supporting it, a trolling stamp sounds like a great idea from a financial standpoint. As someone that spends alot of hours working on stocking and ways to pay for it, I am all for supporting the resource any way I can. However, stamps are now purchased by folks not already paying to use that particular resource. If stocking funds are the issue, I'd be for raising the fishing license fees for all users. I wouldn't blink an eye at $30 per year, and doubt others would complain much either, provided it gets spent properly.. I paid more than that to take the kids bowling the other day, and I couldn't get a strike with the bumpers up. And the jukebox was stuck on hit hits from 1992. I'm Rick Astley'd out.
Which crank? cranky nitro, or the deep diver? Rogers stuff is very nice, and productive.
I would pay more for a license, but that forces people that do not wish to troll to pay more also. I dont think thats fair. That is why I say optional like a trout stamp.
I got The Cranky Nitro Penatrator. |
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Location: north central wisconsin | You'll like that bait. |
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| Cant wait to try it. I hate hard water season. |
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Location: oswego, il | Your making the assumption that trolling will negatively affect fish populations therefore there should be a fee.
I lime Mike's idea, make it 100 a year. |
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Location: north central wisconsin | Why don't we allow trolling along with fisheries biologist management on same set of lakes, while leaving the rest as is for 10 years and see what happens. |
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| The gov asked for more input, got it, came to a compromise, why i'isnt signed? Total nonsense, and all you that see trolling as the end of the WI fishery as we know it, pls provide a specific eaxample why? |
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| A specific example of a fisheries dimise because of a new trolling rule. Anyone? |
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Location: north central wisconsin | pls? |
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Location: oswego, il | CEK - 2/21/2015 10:11 PM
A specific example of a fisheries dimise(or demise) because of a new trolling rule. Anyone?
The lake will fill in completely with bottle caps in two years. |
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| I don't think you'll get far forcing the walleye guys to pay more for a license to stock muskies that eat all their walleyes. On the other side of that coin, I don't think the musky only guys will want to pay more for a license to stock more walleyes.
If I could check a box on my license application for an additional $10 to go directly towards stocking, I'd do it. I think a lot of folks would, as long as that's where the money actually went.
I know this would never work, for many reasons. But if there were a few local hatcheries where one could go and buy fish and then stock them wherever they felt like stocking them, our fisheries would be in a LOT better shape. The clubs could buy fish and put them wherever. The lake associations could buy fish and stock them. Landowners could buy fish and stock them.
How many guys here would stop on the way to your favorite lake and buy a couple muskies to turn them loose at the landing if you could?
Like I said, it wouldn't work for a variety of reasons. But if the angling public at large had the opportunity to buy fish for stocking in the lake(s) of their choice, we'd have more fish in more places than we knew what to do with.
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| CEK - 2/21/2015 10:11 PM
A specific example of a fisheries dimise because of a new trolling rule. Anyone?
Three minutes after you ask a question which you KNOW there's no example for because there hasn't BEEN a new trolling rule in 30 years...
I don't have any verifiable documented studies that show hitting someone in the head with a hammer would cause them to sustain a substantial injury, but that doesn't mean the act would be harmless.
Come on, man. What are you, a lawyer? Use your head. And maybe a hammer..
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Location: minocqua, wi. | why does ever situation result in this special interest wanting to give phriggin money to someone in government?
CEK ... google search back trolling in the 80's and it's not always about you (muskies) |
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| You know I can understand that this debate will go on for ever. There will always be that group that will say it devastates the fishery and they will have enough influence to stop this from getting passed. My question then is there any way they can fix this stupid sucker regulation??? I would be curious to know if the guys I see dragging suckers on floats while casting are the same ones who vote down the trolling.
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Chris, my guess is that the primary reason is all about the Walleye ... specifically Vilas County but the Northern Section of Oneida County too ... they used to have a tourism interest for fishing. It's all but disappeared along with the Walleye population. People can say this or that about how all the musky $$$ happy horse-schitdt has bailed out the economy schmonomy but there was a time when fishing was a big draw to the northwoods and it isn't anymore. Those same people saw what happened during the back trolling days. The second reason I do believe is tradition and row-trolling on smaller quiet lakes (the ones you don't see jetskis).
the way to fix the sucker thing is to position fish like the rule says ... learn to run your boat other than constant-on. simple solution ... if you get a ticket then you are not position fishing.
Edited by jonnysled 2/22/2015 7:46 AM
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Location: north central wisconsin | Selfishly, then, I say just open up trolling everywhere but the lobbying counties up north, at least this year. Then at least the rest of us can drag a sucker/crawler around, and not look over our shoulder when the bucktail blades are still spinning while taking a phone call as we move along a weedline.
Isn't trolling permitted on a couple of the best walleye fisheries in the north, Rainbow Flowage/Willow Flowage?
Edited by Reef Hawg 2/22/2015 8:39 AM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | yes, it is ... but most touristas are afraid of flowages. there are stumps and stuff in em ... |
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Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | EA:
An even easier way than you are proposing DID happen in the early 1900's via the FISH TRAINS that used to transport milk cans full of fish all across the north, including muskies. All one needed do was meet the train at the depot and off load the milk cans to their wagon and transport them to any lake they wanted. There were no requirements for getting fish other than being there. Have several old photo's somewhere in my files of said trains.
I would wager that many of the current "muskie lakes" were created in this manner. The DNR has no idea which were "native muskie lakes" and which were created by stocking, other than the obvious ones immediately connected to the Wisconsin and Chippewa Rivers.
Of course there is no way your idea would/will happen today...even if it would work...which I think it would. We are stuck with whatever "populations" we now have, whether they reproduce or not...and most don't! |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | jonnysled - 2/22/2015 7:00 AM
why does ever situation result in this special interest wanting to give phriggin money to someone in government?
Maybe because that strategy has worked so well for other industries in this state. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | esoxaddict - 2/22/2015 2:40 AM
CEK - 2/21/2015 10:11 PM
A specific example of a fisheries dimise because of a new trolling rule. Anyone?
Three minutes after you ask a question which you KNOW there's no example for because there hasn't BEEN a new trolling rule in 30 years...
I don't have any verifiable documented studies that show hitting someone in the head with a hammer would cause them to sustain a substantial injury, but that doesn't mean the act would be harmless.
Come on, man. What are you, a lawyer? Use your head. And maybe a hammer..
Lots of scientific evidence hitting someone on the head with a hammer would be very bad for them. Not what would be considered a rare murder weapon.
Not so much on the other requests. And there will not be, because it ain't real. There's good fishing in lots of places and even in places where the walleye and muskie population rely 100% on stocking (there's your sign...), in fact better than we have up here, for Muskies and walleyes where there's been trolling forever. That's it. End of 'the sky will fall' arguments.
Everyone gets it that some folks don't want the trolling annoyance in the North. Everyone knows or certainly should know by now in this debate that there is no evidence that the fisheries will be negatively effected. It is pretty simple when you boil down the poo soup here....a large number of folks don't want the annoyance.
If it was three lines I'd oppose it like crazy, because that would annoy me dodging a spread like that on the little lakes I fish. One line? Not too bad, I don't think.
I am willing to admit the things I don't like about trolling up here have little to nothing to do with the health of the fisheries. |
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Location: Rhinelander | The northern WI biologists I have discussed this topic with are not in favor of legalizing trolling......
They have more than one reason but the common theme seems to be if/when more fish(delayed mortality of muskie) walleyes kept our DNR will not have the resources to preform PE's.
With the suspected drop in population of game fish, revised bag limits will take years to implement.......this could be devastating on the smaller bodies of water.
Please keep in mind Oneida and Vikas county are big summer tourist attractions that folks from the Fox River Valley and Green Bay area vacation in. A lot of these fisherman are very experianced trolling fisherman from fishing Green Bay and the Winnebago/Poygan chain, their home waters.
It wont take them long to tap into the few remaining walleye in these small northern waters. Just one limit a week of walleye per week, per family group and it take long and walleye may become a thing of the past in 500 acre and smaller lakes in northern WI.
Experianced musky anglers shouldn't be a problem releasing fish caught casting or trollling. I'm afraid of the nightly pontoon cruisers that now throw out a shad rap or two behind the boat and accidently hook a muskie. Could be line break with bait stuck in muskies throat or a 5 minute release/picture session putting a muskie back. |
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Location: West Chester, OH | esoxaddict - 2/22/2015 3:22 AM
How many guys here would stop on the way to your favorite lake and buy a couple muskies to turn them loose at the landing if you could?
Oh, me! Me! Me!!
Heck, I've been giving money to the lake association for bluegills & perch. Muskies are much more exciting.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | HH,
You are aware of the walleye initiative underway...right?
New limits take years to implement? You mean zero instead of one or two? There are lots of waters with bag limits 1 over 14 or 15 and one under, one over 18", or 2 over 15" etc., and they change yearly.
New limits are set by a determination of the TAC using GLIFWC ( good portion of past survey funding came from them, I hear things were tough there too) and DNR data reacting to spearing quotas and then actual take every Spring.
Every year.
One has to look at the sign at the landing opening day to see if it's 1 or 2 on most lakes.
Tourists from the Valley clearing out all the walleyes because they troll...Winnebago? The rivers? With one line allowed here and huge difference in how lakes in the north fish VS the bigger waters in the Valley, how can anyone claim that there will be a scintilla of difference? Those same anglers are expert jiggers, rip jiggers, and slip bobber fishermen too, some of the best in the walleye world.
I'm sure the Fox Valley tourists will arrive in flotillas paying $800 a week for a cabin so they can troll all day and bag 1 14" walleye and 1 over 14".
If I lived in the valley I'd not fish walleyes here at all.
And most don't. In fact, most don't vacation here anymore at all. Spearing, crappy budgets for the DNR and hatcheries, the emergence of big LMB populations, etc. took out the walleye population in SOME lakes, not all. We still have some good fishing up here on quite a few lakes. Pelican is the best it's been in 20 years right now. Most of my favorite walleye lakes still hold good numbers and never have crashed at all like Minocqua did. The Rainbow is absolutely loaded with walleyes.
And we got where we are up here with walleye populations without any trolling allowed.
Before the freezeout last year, Thunder had some of the biggest walleyes in the area. Trolling is legal there. You can keep 1 over 18". Giant bluegills too, but she froze out last winter killing off a big portion of everthing but Pike if the dead fish after ice out indicate anything.
It isn't the method of catching that's in question, and it's not any longer whether N WI will be managed for walleyes properly. That said, the DNR budget still sucks and we live in the Ceded Territory. |
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Location: Rhinelander | Yes I have heard of the walleye initiative, should be a big help our northern walleye fisheries. To be honest I do not know the finer points but what I do understand it was started to help a diminishing walleye problem, right?
The northern lakes you mentioned in your post are all larger bodies of water.....I am concerned with the 500 acre and smaller.
I do not claim to be a biologist.....so I ask plenty of questions to the men that study fish year round. A dead fish is a dead fish...no matter if it was caught jigging, slip bobber or trolling. My opinion and a few others, is trollling will open up areas of summer walleyes that remained almost untouched. These fish could become extremely vulnerable and may not last long in the smaller bodies of water if targeted. With one line trolling on the horizon we fear three won't be far behind.
I very well could be wrong about trolling, but men that know a lot more than I have some of the same concerns.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I noticed all the 500 acre lakes in Minnesota have been decimated by trolling.
Wait...
And the limit is 1 or 2 no matter how they are caught. No matter how they are caught. If you fish for walleyes in those lakes and you have any walleye catching skillset at all, the fish can't hide, you can see across the lake.
And people are catching them anyway. Ice anglers figure 'em out too. The last couple winters have been good for the fish because of snow and slush, keeps the crowds from moving around freely.
I really do not care either way how the trolling debate ends as legal here or not, I've lived here for over 40 years without trolling and almost never soak a sucker here in the Fall. |
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| Mr Addict, in all seriousness, I don't just look at only WI when weighing this issue. MN and Canada, have had a one line per angler trolling for how many decades? Are either of them looking to repeal their one line trolling because of the destruction of their fisheries? How is WI different? Oh yes, small lakes will be decimated. Really, does anyone have a historic example? Have you ever been on Lake Wingra in Madison when 6 boats are trolling 6-12 lines per boat? How do they all get along? Remember when we all heard the word Jet Ski? They were suppose to be the ruin of all things north woods. I agree, they are annoying, but now we have them, and those wake board dudes, man, too much money, and no common sense, yet we all survive, even the fish.
I am hearing a lot of fear that many folks secret "honey holes" will now be exploited by the evil trollers.
And a trolling stamp? Seriously? How about a stamp if you have more than one piece of electronics in your boat, or a stamp if your boat is capable of over 40mph, or how about a stamp if you have more than 10 rods in your boat? Or the best yet, if your boat and tow vehicle exceed 50k, pay the DNR a tax for that.
The emotion with this issue is unbelievable to me. Maybe I don't know enough history, but after reading some of these posts, I feel we should ban center fire ammo for deer hunting because its not fair! |
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Location: oswego, il | Went to the auto show this weekend, seen a sticker on a suburban, 75k, the Cadillac version 91k!
One thing for sure, anything new will only hurt northern Wisconsin and no place else.
Edited by ToddM 2/22/2015 8:41 PM
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Location: Wisconsin | With the exceptional walleye fishing on the Winnebago system, Green Bay, and the wisc. river system people are not going to flock to the north woods to troll up their 1/2 walleye a day. These systems have made it unnecessary to drive any distance to catch walleye. Especially with the 5/day limits. Ice fisherman will destroy a body of water much faster than the trolling community. Most are off all winter and seem to be less concerned with selective harvest. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | ToddM - 2/22/2015 8:40 PM
Went to the auto show this weekend, seen a sticker on a suburban, 75k, the Cadillac version 91k!
One thing for sure, anything new will only hurt northern Wisconsin and no place else.
75K ? I sure hope it came with the model who was showing the car |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | One can now easily spend $150K on a rigged boat and tow vehicle.
Liking my 170T more and more every day. |
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| CEK, You're using Wingra as an example, which has one of the highest musky population densities of any lake in the state. You're using the Yahara Chain, which is stocked heavily and has been for some time.
You are comparing that to lakes of similar size, with some of the lowest population densities in the state, many of which have not been stocked in 20 years, and likely will not be stocked.
Let's not even talk about the differences in forage, water chemistry, growing seasons, treaty harvest...
About the only similarities between the two are that they both contain water and fish. |
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Location: Maribel WI | My only issue with opening trolling up to all lakes regardless of size is that is eliminates any advantage a person can get by doing a little extra work. There is no benefit to being a row troller, or to tirelessly fish open water - even on a 600 acre lake.
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Location: minocqua, wi. | so, based on what i've read ... then, what is so bad about spearing? just another method, right? |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | jonnysled - 2/23/2015 7:32 AM
so, based on what i've read ... then, what is so bad about spearing? just another method, right?
Just another method that apparently isn't subject to bag limits. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | there is a lake that used to boast a fantastic pike population including some dandies ... a local guide took some folks from Appleton and they took some friends and so on and so on and so on ... until almost anything with any meat on the bone was removed out of the lake. the local lake association has since shut off the landing that was used so that nobody can fish out there anymore ... too bad. i was there before they got there and after releasing all the pike over 28 and keeping a few here and there. some of the meat hauls i saw made the spearing pictures used to get folks excited look pretty tame in comparison.
as soon as a lake is invested in, once limits are set the meat hunters will come and erase the progress regardless the method ... sad, but true. good news though is the same people have another "group" of people to blame and the wheel goes round and round.
anglers think they should use canoes, torches and spears, they probably think we should use oars ... but, we're the ones who are right.
Edited by jonnysled 2/23/2015 8:41 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Lots of lakes like that. ice angling rips up 'hot bite' lakes every year. Good news is they leave, the fishing comes back, and it takes a long time for the hordes to figure it out. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | With a daily bag limit of 5 fish it seems like the DNR is encouraging the harvest. They certainly have the ability to adjust the regs on a lake by lake basis, so maybe the PANW (Pike Alliance of Northern Wisconsin) could dump some cash into SW's favorite PAC and something will get done. |
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Location: oswego, il | This is like watching the Daytona 500, what lap are we on now? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | jonnysled - 2/23/2015 7:32 AM
so, based on what i've read ... then, what is so bad about spearing? just another method, right?
What's bad about spearing? The State has no control over the process and the politics has taken (predictably) decades to begin to moderate, just like it took decades for the Tribes to re-establish their rights within the law. Other than that, it's the way it is. Reality, and no matter how you spin it, we take way more fish than they do.
sled made an interesting point. Whether netting, spearing, or angling, if the Tribes take their quota, they take their quota, and it doesn't matter how it's accomplished. There are limits set, and most years the Tribes don't take all they announce and the limits go up just before season opens. Is spearing why we have little tiny limits? Yes. Is it 'wrong'? No, it's 'law' and a result of two Treaties our Government made with theirs.
Ice spearing is another issue only because of reporting, one no one seems to be able to get their arms around to get it added to the TAC. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | dfkiii - 2/23/2015 8:45 AM
With a daily bag limit of 5 fish it seems like the DNR is encouraging the harvest. They certainly have the ability to adjust the regs on a lake by lake basis, so maybe the PANW (Pike Alliance of Northern Wisconsin) could dump some cash into SW's favorite PAC and something will get done. ;)
I don't have a 'favorite PAC', but I wish there was one to try to protect big Pike waters like there is in MN. There was a lake that was a zero bag for Pike, and then a very limiting slot. Want to know why the limits were removed just as the big Pike were really showing up? The biologist in charge became concerned about the walleye population suffering.
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i just get a kick out of anglers claiming "nothing will change" ... |
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Location: MN | I would definitely agree ice fishing has much more of an effect than trolling with one line. There are several small lakes in MN that used to be great walleye fishing and catching large walleyes (27+) was pretty common if you knew what you were doing. Very few people targeted the walleyes in the summer and most that did weren't too good at it. The good walleye fisherman (trollers or otherwise) targeted larger bodies of water. Once ice fishing exploded 5-10 years ago the little lakes that were walleye gems got destroyed within a few winters. They have never came back and probably won't because they get pounded so hard every winter.
In MN we can only fish two lines in the winter and very few people use unmonitored set lines (tip ups) so I would imagine ice fishing to be even more detrimental in WI where three lines are allowed and just about everyone has at least one tip up out.
Edited by Nershi 2/23/2015 9:20 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Of course things will change. People will be trolling. And we are not used to that up here.
If the thing gets signed by the Governor, which may not happen. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | all tip-up lines in WI must be monitored ... unmonitored lines will get you a fine, so only difference on ice to MN is 3 vs. 2 lines.
ToddM ... it's gonna be a green-white-checker |
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Location: MN | sworrall - 2/23/2015 9:02 AM
dfkiii - 2/23/2015 8:45 AM
With a daily bag limit of 5 fish it seems like the DNR is encouraging the harvest. They certainly have the ability to adjust the regs on a lake by lake basis, so maybe the PANW (Pike Alliance of Northern Wisconsin) could dump some cash into SW's favorite PAC and something will get done. ;)
I don't have a 'favorite PAC', but I wish there was one to try to protect big Pike waters like there is in MN. There was a lake that was a zero bag for Pike, and then a very limiting slot. Want to know why the limits were removed just as the big Pike were really showing up? The biologist in charge became concerned about the walleye population suffering.
You would think the biologist would know, but that seems contradictory to everything I have read and heard. The presence of larger pike, keeping stunted panfish and hammerhandles in check among other things, would have actually been a boon to walleyes - both size and numbers I think. |
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Location: oswego, il | jonnysled - 2/23/2015 9:25 AM
all tip-up lines in WI must be monitored ... unmonitored lines will get you a fine, so only difference on ice to MN is 3 vs. 2 lines.
ToddM ... it's gonna be a green-white-checker
I will agree to not to spin you through the grass if you agree not to put me up in the catch fence.
Other than tradition, I just don't see much changing. |
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Location: MN | jonnysled - 2/23/2015 9:25 AM
all tip-up lines in WI must be monitored ... unmonitored lines will get you a fine, so only difference on ice to MN is 3 vs. 2 lines.
Of course they do but that doesn't mean that they are.
I can't tell you how many times I've seen flags go up and several minutes later someone finally looks out the window of their shack and go pull up their throat hooked fish. That is unmonitored set lines, just very difficult for a C.O. to write a ticket for. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | WI is no different than a line in the ice in MN. was the point. places like Montana are where true set-lining is legal.
unattended lines in both states are not legal ...
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Posts: 27
| If the bass fishing has become so good why is it not promoted? Bass fisherman will travel. I'm going to go over to the Minoqua chain this summer. Sled, Want to go and show me around? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Millsie1 - 2/23/2015 11:01 AM
If the bass fishing has become so good why is it not promoted? Bass fisherman will travel. I'm going to go over to the Minoqua chain this summer. Sled, Want to go and show me around?
good question and a bit of a dichotomy ... the chamber is tuned in as much as getting phone calls for people running tournaments and accommodating, but they aren't out there soliciting them. the fisheries interests are for sure tuned in another direction (walleyes). it would be an even bigger conflict if there became an lmb vs. walleye agenda ...
seems to me that in Wisconsin smb's get respect and lmb's are treated as if they are carp. i tend to operate that way too ... i mean, lmb's are fun but fishing em is like being seen with a fat-chick ... but, they are so #*^@ fun!!
would love to show you some of the spots that i've found out there ... it's a hoot!! get your wacky-worm bite sensors tuned in!! September is a top-water bite that will leave you speechless!!
One of the challenges is to get them to take turns!! LOL, funniest piece of the picture story is there could very well have been an eagle in that net picture too if we hadn't screamed and shoo-ed it away!
Edited by jonnysled 2/23/2015 1:01 PM
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Posts: 999
| All they have to do to clear up the position fishing with live bait problem is to "allow" trolling in the counties that currently don't allow it is to use electric motors only. Problem solved.
Edited by Mr Musky 2/23/2015 11:23 AM
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Location: oswego, il | Millsie1 - 2/23/2015 11:01 AM
If the bass fishing has become so good why is it not promoted? Bass fisherman will travel. I'm going to go over to the Minoqua chain this summer. Sled, Want to go and show me around?
Tradition |
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Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The bass fishing is that good. There's LOTS of incredible bass fishing, bot SMB and LMB up here now. Kind of like going home for me. |
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| jonnysled - 2/23/2015 11:15 AM
Millsie1 - 2/23/2015 11:01 AM
If the bass fishing has become so good why is it not promoted? Bass fisherman will travel. I'm going to go over to the Minoqua chain this summer. Sled, Want to go and show me around?
good question and a bit of a dichotomy ... the chamber is tuned in as much as getting phone calls for people running tournaments and accommodating, but they aren't out there soliciting them. the fisheries interests are for sure tuned in another direction (walleyes ). it would be an even bigger conflict if there became an lmb vs. walleye agenda ...
seems to me that in Wisconsin smb's get respect and lmb's are treated as if they are carp. i tend to operate that way too ... i mean, lmb's are fun but fishing em is like being seen with a fat-chick ... but, they are so #*^@ fun!!
would love to show you some of the spots that i've found out there ... it's a hoot!! get your wacky-worm bite sensors tuned in!! September is a top-water bite that will leave you speechless!!
One of the challenges is to get them to take turns!! LOL, funniest piece of the picture story is there could very well have been an eagle in that net picture too if we hadn't screamed and shoo-ed it away!
Great pic, Jon! I'll take you up on it this summer for sure! I love bass fishing. Not as much as musky but close. |
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| It seems very few folks actually fish for bass on the lake where we live in northern WI, but there are some very nice fish. Couple years ago we were at the boat landing as volunteers for the clean water/clean boat program and a couple guys from the Milwaukee area came in off the lake. Had gone out early, fishing for crappie and had kept a nice batch for eating. The one guy commented about it being his first time on the lake and he could not get over how many nice small mouth they had caught and released fishing little plastic jigs for crappie. He said it got to be a pain because of replacing the little plastic tails. He asked if we got a lot of bass fishermen on the chain, and I told him no one I had talked to as a volunteer was ever after bass. He was really surprised.
I have caught some nice bass on muskie lures and one of my favorite photos is of a nephew frowning while holding up what had to be a five pound small mouth. He thought he had hooked his first musky when it hit and was really disappointed. My son said he didn't want a photo before he released it but was talked into it. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | Love the bass fishing in our area. I've caught a few football sized smallies on topwaters while fishing for musky. Pound for pound, the toughest freshwater fish out there.
Never caught any trolling though. |
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| The LMB fishing is ridiculous compared to ten years ago. We used to catch them from time to time, but they were usually small, and few and far between.
We'll usually spend an afternoon targeting LMB, until we realize that we just drove 7 hours to catch the same fish we can catch around here, 15 minutes in any direction. That's probably why LMB fishing isn't really catching on "Up North"...
It may be a fun bonus for the locals who aren't used to such a thing. But for the tourists, I'd suspect it's not much of a draw considering every farm pond, forest preserve lake, park district lake, and retention pond down here in the circus has ample opportunities to catch LMB in the 2-3# range. Your average vinyl sided house-on-top-of house subdivision down here has at least one pond where you can catch LMB to your heart's content after work while still wearing your tie and dress shoes.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | And you can troll for 'em, too |
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Location: 31 | When (not if) the trolling ban is lifted, and all the walleyes and muskies are decimated, at least there will still be LMB to fall back on. Trolling LMB... haha, could start a new “Club North” LMB trolling tradition... Buck Perry approved
Edited by Jerry Newman 2/23/2015 8:53 PM
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| sworrall - 2/23/2015 6:44 PM
And you can troll for 'em, too
That might save you from having to step around the McDonald's bags, empty bait containers, beer cans, empty cigarette packs, and dirty diapers you usually find strewn along the shoreline down here.
And if you think I'm kidding about the diapers, I'm not. I encounter at least one a year.
Ahh life in the sewer... |
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Location: north central wisconsin | esoxaddict - 2/24/2015 12:29 AM
sworrall - 2/23/2015 6:44 PM
And you can troll for 'em, too
That might save you from having to step around the McDonald's bags, empty bait containers, beer cans, empty cigarette packs, and dirty diapers you usually find strewn along the shoreline down here.
And if you think I'm kidding about the diapers, I'm not. I encounter at least one a year.
Ahh life in the sewer...
Hey, if the bass are big enough, a guy might need a diaper. Just sayin. |
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| Nershi - 2/23/2015 9:43 AM
jonnysled - 2/23/2015 9:25 AM
all tip-up lines in WI must be monitored ... unmonitored lines will get you a fine, so only difference on ice to MN is 3 vs. 2 lines.
Of course they do but that doesn't mean that they are.
I can't tell you how many times I've seen flags go up and several minutes later someone finally looks out the window of their shack and go pull up their throat hooked fish. That is unmonitored set lines, just very difficult for a C.O. to write a ticket for.
This one made me laugh. Do you have to sprint to the flag that is up? If so, what does an individuals 40 yard dash time need to be?
It's difficult to write a ticket because it isn't unattended, Einstein! |
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Location: one foot over the line | Makin' some popcorn... |
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Location: MN | Cfollow - 3/1/2015 7:35 PM
. Do you have to sprint to the flag that is up? If so, what does an individuals 40 yard dash time need to be?
!
Well it depends if they are holding their breathe or not.
The point to the tip up comment was merely that you have higher hook mortality with the use of tip ups. Wi folks love tip ups! Lol |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | deep hooked walleyes are easy to unhook ... |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | jonnysled - 3/1/2015 8:41 PM
deep hooked walleyes are easy to unhook ...
Show them the video Sled. |
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Location: MN | jonnysled - 3/1/2015 8:41 PM
deep hooked walleyes are easy to unhook ...
...when you can see the hook. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | you can get em when you can't see em too ... forcep from the backside slightly open and pressure back till you get the shank and just rotate.
Edited by jonnysled 3/1/2015 9:35 PM
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