|
|
Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Have seen very little on this bait other than a video of it posted on here a little while ago. Does anybody know what the asking price of these is?
I found another website that mentioned $100, but wasn't sure if that was accurate. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 964
| Yes he had them for $100 at the Chicago show.
Looks like a nice bait. I was impressed with the finish on them.
Had some nice paint jobs also. Video of baits action was impressive also
They are hand made and are wood.
I got one to try out.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 229
| They are very nice with spectacular paint jobs. If you are going to the Milwaukee Musky show I think he will be there with them. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1360
Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished | anyone have a pic of this bait? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | FAT-SKI - 2/11/2015 4:51 PM
anyone have a pic of this bait?
Look him up on Facebook. Some rather tasty looking patterns. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1753
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | canadachris - 2/11/2015 6:24 PM
Looks like a Headlock knock-off to me. Or at least the lip does. I could be wrong - not sure i've seen another bait with that lip design, other than the supernatural baits.
Kind of sad, really.
There are two ways to look at this.
On one hand, the bait appears to be a blatant copy. I have not fished with either one, but there have been a lot of copies lately that haven't gotten as much attention. How many people are complaining about a jigging hellhound, rippin' dawg, or other vertical jigging baits that are essentially bondy ripoffs? The Twinkie is basically a bulldawg copy.
On the other hand, if there are more people that make baits, it will drive everyone to make better baits, in theory. Look at the bulldawg for example. Several companies have used the idea for musky sized plastics. Production came back to the US, quality has returned to the baits, the plastic is more durable, the harness has improved, and the pro dawg was developed based on the original 7 strand design and the demand for the original baits. Without the competition, would this have happened? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | canadachris - 2/11/2015 6:24 PM
Looks like a Headlock knock-off to me. Or at least the lip does. I could be wrong - not sure i've seen another bait with that lip design, other than the supernatural baits.
Kind of sad, really.
Lip may be the same, or similar shape, but that doesn't make a bait a knock off. Body is a different shape. The shape of a Headlock lip isn't too much different than some other plastic billed baits. Sure it has three line tie positions, but other baits prior to the Headlock had that as well.
I agree with RyanJozz's comments on bait evolution. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32935
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It's a crank bait. It will 'look' like some others, and be different at the same time.
That's bait making, and there is not ONE single lure out there today that didn't mimic some features of those that came before it.
One thing this bait builder does is a superb job at making lures that run great and catch fish.
'Bucktails' look alike too. Yet Dadson did a couple things different. Set that lure along side many others, and you won't know why the Dadson is different.
Until you fish it.
Buy one or don't. Geez. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 404
Location: Lakeville, MN |
sworrall - 2/11/2015 8:05 PM
It's a crank bait. It will 'look' like some others, and be different at the same time.
That's bait making, and there is not ONE single lure out there today that didn't mimic some features of those that came before it.
One thing this bait builder does is a superb job at making lures that run great and catch fish.
'Bucktails' look alike too. Yet Dadson did a couple things different. Set that lure along side many others, and you won't know why the Dadson is different.
Until you fish it.
Buy one or don't. Geez.
Attachments
----------------
 cootheader1.jpg (92KB - 786 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 32935
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | So what would happen if we mix a topwater with a double 10?
I have one of these. Cast's like a bag of jumping beans, looks like a 1X4 dragging across the top, and catches fish. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 156
| I too agree with Travis & Steve. Everyone can have their opinion, and some baits may be more of an "evolution"...but sometimes that's all it takes to get the fish's attention again. Especially on pressured waters.
I know all the different "brands" of Dbl-10s have their fans, but I've done the best on Spanky Baits. Thrown all brands too. Not sure why, but it just is. Maybe the fish in the lake I fish react differently...who knows. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20263
Location: oswego, il | Muskiefool made a crankbait, glider and topwater that looked quite bizzar. Hope somebody has some pictures of those to post. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 400
Location: Wisconsin | We can argue about the opinions surrounding if this is a knock off... But who really cares? It is a great looking bait, with very cool action. I will be in Milwaukee this weekend, and I am surely getting my hands on one! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | ToddM - 2/11/2015 10:44 PM
Muskiefool made a crankbait, glider and topwater that looked quite bizzar. Hope somebody has some pictures of those to post.
That's fur' sure |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | Ummm OK, as a baitmaker myself, I am going to chime in. "It is a blatant copy" I disagree... if this is a blatant copy, than so is any other crank bait out there. I personally DO NOT know either bait maker and really don't care to and have NO partiality toward either one. I'm speaking to the whole idea of this bait "supernatural" being "copied". Other than the lip style, the baits are completely different. The finish and look of the Palagic, to me, is much nicer and appears to have more work into it. This new bait should only make its competitors strive to become better or keep them great or to improve NOT whine. The market is SO saturated with cranks, glides, spinners, jerks, etc that builders must strive to stay on top of their games using alternative means other than just design; because just about every design has been done over the course of hundreds of years! What means? Finish, action, durability, economy, paint-jobs, etc.
And for the record, I have seen this style lip with the pin through and split ring through the hole before on some older lures far before a supernatural was ever around. No disrespect to DT, the headlocks are certainly a Hell of a good bait with a great action which would only be a matter of time for builders to replicate what it does....So withhold the good reputation and stand close to your clientele and theres nothing really to worry about.
Finally, as a bait maker who prides himself on Quality and Originality, I will say that I am flattered when others out there want to mimic one of my patterns, designs or actions....however, be careful because "blatant copies" are evidently obvious unlike in this case which is merely my honest and true non biased opinion. Those who "copy" are well known and choose to skirt the fine line, but from what I've seen in the muskie community is a MAJORITY of appreciative classy folks who continue to support the "originals" because they appreciate where they come from.
Thats all I have to say about that....In short....GET OVER IT!
~P. Fec |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | ShutUpNFish - 2/12/2015 7:34 AM
Ummm OK, as a baitmaker myself, I am going to chime in. "It is a blatant copy" Ummmm if this is a blatant copy, than so is any other crank bait out there. I personally DO NOT know either bait maker and really don't care to and have NO partiality toward either one. I'm speaking to the whole idea of this bait "supernatural" being "copied". Other than the lip style, the baits are completely different. The finish and look of the Palagic, to me, is much nicer and appears to have more work into it. This new bait should only make its competitors strive to become better or keep them great or to improve NOT whine. The market is SO saturated with cranks, glides, spinners, jerks, etc that builders must strive to stay on top of their games using alternative means other than design; because just about every design has been done over the course of hundreds of years! What means? Finish, action, durability, economy, paint-jobs, etc.
And for the record, I have seen this style lip with the pin through and split ring through the hole before on some older lures far before a supernatural was ever around. No disrespect to DT, the headlocks are certainly a Hell of a good bait with a great action which would only be a matter of time for builders to replicate what it does....So withhold the good reputation and stand close to your clientele and theres nothing really to worry about.
Finally, as a bait maker who prides himself on Quality and Originality, I will say that I am flattered when others out there want to mimic one of my patterns, designs or actions....however, be careful because "blatant copies" are evidently obvious unlike in this case which is merely my honest and true non biased opinion. Those who "copy" are well known and choose to skirt the fine line, but from what I've seen in the muskie community is a MAJORITY of appreciative classy folks who continue to support the "originals" because they appreciate where they come from.
Thats all I have to say about that....In short....GET OVER IT!
~P. Fec
Well said! |
|
| |
|
Location: Contrarian Island | so Hoppe came out w the double 10 to the masses... why didn't people rip on every other double 10 maker after that? as weren't they all pretty much knock offs??? c'mon guys... Lee's has some differences as has been noted.. buy whichever one you like... or don't... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 444
| Can someone post pics of the Pelagic for me?
I dont face book.
I have seen the video but would like to see what colors are avail.
thanks
SK |
|
| |
|
Posts: 992
| "certainly not trying to ruffle any feathers...especially two guys that I have much respect for in the bait world without a doubt. I am happy to hear Joe you will have no ill and so on which is what I expected from a stand up guy. Anyhow, just so you guys know about the bait: yes the line tie is obviously very close just with slightly different placement. A
brilliant design so hats off to the inventor of that. The lip is actually a quite different shape with a much slower taper down the sides and a much rounder front with more more space between the front hole and tip of lip. Overall the lip is 1/8" longer and about a 1/4" wider that the Mattlock or BigWood which my favorite btw. As far as the hook hangers, that sideways design has not been produced before in a production bait that I know of but it has been done by other trollers. The sideways hook hanger is much more mechanically friendly for a treble hook design when it comes to "t"ing the hooks. Obviously I was a fan of the Supernatural Baits and True Glides and who couldn't be? The first time I saw the Bigwood Supernatural in the water I was floored, just like we all were when we saw the first Cowgirl. It reminded me of decoys saltwater guys drag behind the boat to attract fish to their baits. The erratic action also reminded me of how I have caught so many fish on Phantoms with that side to side irregularity (another bait that has been done over many times). I remember talking to you Joe one time about the Hughes River baits and how you were not able to get the baits you paid for. That is when you decided to build your own and blew Hughes right out of the water (excuse the pun). You guys know how much work it takes to build baits and you do it because you love it. I can relate because I love it too. Many people have built bucktails and then there was the Cowgirl...changed bucktails forever. Many have built tailbait topwaters, then there was the TopRaider...really opened peoples eyes to topwater. Then of course the Bulldawg possibly the best bait ever besides a bucktail. Then there were Curly Sues, Medussas and so on. Before the Dawg was the Live Action Lure Big Joe, can't leave that one out. One if not the first rubber pull bait. As a bait maker the joy is putting ideas about a bait to a finished piece and fooling one of these addicting fish we all hunt. It's also fun to share those ideas with people that love it as much as the next guy. That's all any of us are doing right? Oh btw, I wouldn't worry too much about my production levels (doubt you are worried) I am a one man band and I have another dozen other topwater baits that I enjoy making. So there you have it whether you like it or not those are the facts. It's good to see people so passionate about something. Thanks Joe for reaching out respectively. And hats off to two great lure builders in the musky world Duff and Joe who have inspired many."
That was Lee's response to similar "blatant copy" accusations I stumbled across on the old winternet. Seems like a classy guy/baitmaker who pays his respect where it's due. Doesn't seem "pretty sad, really" to me
And i'm not a troller anad have a hard time spending anything north of 30 bucks for a bait but if I were ever to I would seriously consider one of those baits based off the paaint jobs alone. very impressive |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Thanks for the information Jeff. I had a funny feeling the other posts might follow, and that's as far as I will comment on that issue. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20263
Location: oswego, il | The double ten was out and being sold before musky mayhem made them. MM certainly started the craze and are great baits. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | Yup....If you were around 15-20 years ago, double 10 Colorados were around; just were not typical mainly because we didn't really have the equipment to crank those big blades in... |
|
| |
|
Location: Contrarian Island | really? I think an abu 7000 was around 15-20 years ago.... huh, guess yah they were "around" but Hoppe and crew sure started the craze, had we known the effectiveness of them I sure wish I was throwing them 15-20 yrs ago... and yah, I was around back then  |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32935
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Double bladed bucktails go WAY back, and big blades do as well, just not mass produced or promoted. I remember throwing a number 9 size bladed spinnerbait for Muskies in the late 70's, made for big bass and plopping the blade on top at night. Caught bass on it too, and the bass guys made fun of it because it was too big.
Double 8s are ancient.
It took someone refining the concept and then taking it to an entirely new level to create a business muskie guys would buy from in volume. Didn't need a 7000 until they did.
Go look at the big propane tank in Boulder Junction. BL Whoppertail, I think, from a very long time ago. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 156
| Everyone keeps saying there are pics of the Pelagic on Lee's FB...but i dont see it there, in his page, or the Lee Lures page. Maybe it's in some sort of private "for friends only" status. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 618
Location: Michigan | Hope Lee is okay with it being posted since a couple of guys are asking to see it
(10947242_775571899202214_7679951170792034085_n.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
10947242_775571899202214_7679951170792034085_n.jpg (65KB - 753 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 452
Location: Waconia, MN | Here is a YouTube link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nriD_jura-g |
|
| |
|
Posts: 72
| Woow, that baits looks really amazing. I wonder how deep it runs on all 3 settings and how the action changes?
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2027
| Certainly not a knockoff, and I own 3 of Duff's creations. When someone on the lake I fish reports it catches 3 50 plus fish, as well as 3 40 plus in 3 nights I'll buy several of those as well. Until then, I am content dragging around mine when I can. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 156
| What other color patterns are there on this lure? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 531
Location: Hugo, MN | A few people on this board and on Facebook have claimed that the pin and split ring idea had been done before. When? Where? Duff created that style of lip, and it works incredibly well. In cases like this, the builder is put in a tough spot. A patent would protect his idea from copycats, but would also be very costly. If someone wants to make an EXACT copy of your bait (not saying that is the case with the Pelagic), there's really nothing to stop him. If guys in the bait building community choose to steal another guy's idea, they risk having their baits labeled as "ripoffs". Hopefully, the majority of consumers recognize and appreciate the originator, and continue to buy his baits. As a basement builder myself, I've grown to appreciate original, handmade baits. I wish more guys had that same appreciation. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | knooter - 2/12/2015 6:47 PM
A few people on this board and on Facebook have claimed that the pin and split ring idea had been done before. When? Where? Duff created that style of lip, and it works incredibly well.
I knew I saw it somewhere, and lucky me someone was selling a bait with the lip style in question right here on M1. I cannot find much online with other pics so sorry. Anyway Lunge Lockers are cranks that have a pin-like attachment, and they have been around for quite a while. Yes it is not exact, but the concept is the same. The darn Canadians have some pretty cool baits that we don't see much here in the states!
I am sure there are some to the North of us that have these or others like it. JP Bushy comes to mind that probably has some so maybe he could post a few if he sees this.
Attachments
----------------
Snap1.jpg (27KB - 411 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 921
Location: Apollo, PA | Those baits have an adjustable line tie, you can move it to each hole to get desired depth. I do not believe it is anything like a headlock where the pin will spin. Lunge Locker are nice baits, but not the headlock principle.
When your successful in the lure business, your bait will get ripped off, its just the way it is, the list is very long, its ok, but like knooter, I can appreciate the people in the business that do come up with something that we haven't seen a million variations of, that works......
I'm sure Duff saw it coming, he's not dumb. It will all work out. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | You haven't made it as a bait builder until you've created something special and someone else has made a copy. Some builders are innovators and some are copiers. Live with it and work to create the next big thing is all you can do. |
|
| |
|
Location: Eastern Ontario | Creek Chub had the Patent on doing scales with netting I think Hedon was the only one that actually paid to use it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Ok, said I wasn't going to comment on this but guess I have to retract that statement. The only "copy" issue that everybody is worrying about seems to be the lip design as the body is entirely different.
So, what about all the baits that have the line tie molded into the lip? What about the styles that have a couple loops using the through wire going through the lip like Perchbaits? What about the ones that use an eye screw in the bait for a line tie? Are all those baits copies because they use a similar line tie design? What about baits that use square lips? What about round lips?
Are there similarities between this bait and the headlock? Yeah, sure. Are there similarities between a Jake, Grandma, Slammer, Talonz Claw, Custom X, Big Game, Crane, Shallow Raider, etc.? Yes, I think they all share similarities. Are they also all different? Absolutely.
In another post everybody was worried about the Headlocks chaning to resin, and so worried it would not be the same bait anymore. Still has the same lip, still has the same body shape. To the eye, it is identical to the original. But, everybody was worried that a small change in body material would make it an entirely different bait. Now everybody is worried that an entirely different bait, with only a 'similar' lip design is an out and out copy of another?
We're an interesting buch sometimes. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | curleytail - 2/13/2015 7:04 AM
We're an interesting buch sometimes.
You can say that again! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | There IS a vintage bait, I don't know what its called or really give a hoot, but I saw two of them on ebay just the other day with a metal lip two hole setting pin style (nail head) looking with the split ring...SO no he did NOT invent that style line tie. It has been done before and either way who cares, its not patented for a reason, just that, its been done...Just like No cranks can get patents... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 156
| Y'all should settle this once and for all.  Next year go to Lake Saint Claire, put out a mix of Headlocks and Pelagics painted the same color. See which bait catches more fish. Catching fish is all that matters guys, the rest is a bit clicky and high school-ish. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1901
Location: MN | And using a bunch of smiley faces, what is that? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20263
Location: oswego, il | Keeping it real......happy! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I think they should wrastle over it, and I'm not even sure who the they is. If Jello is chosen as the ring media, count me out of the audience if it involves two dudes. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 156
| Propster - 2/13/2015 10:16 AM
And using a bunch of smiley faces, what is that? :)
Today was a good day. Can't I be happy?
Now you ruined it. 
Just kidding.
BTW, saw the Pelagic today. Good looking bait. Didn't spend the $100 though. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1283
| They look good to me but not for 100 bucks, plus I dont troll often enough.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1360
Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished | curleytail - 2/13/2015 7:04 AM
Ok, said I wasn't going to comment on this but guess I have to retract that statement. The only "copy" issue that everybody is worrying about seems to be the lip design as the body is entirely different.
So, what about all the baits that have the line tie molded into the lip? What about the styles that have a couple loops using the through wire going through the lip like Perchbaits? What about the ones that use an eye screw in the bait for a line tie? Are all those baits copies because they use a similar line tie design? What about baits that use square lips? What about round lips?
Are there similarities between this bait and the headlock? Yeah, sure. Are there similarities between a Jake, Grandma, Slammer, Talonz Claw, Custom X, Big Game, Crane, Shallow Raider, etc.? Yes, I think they all share similarities. Are they also all different? Absolutely.
In another post everybody was worried about the Headlocks chaning to resin, and so worried it would not be the same bait anymore. Still has the same lip, still has the same body shape. To the eye, it is identical to the original. But, everybody was worried that a small change in body material would make it an entirely different bait. Now everybody is worried that an entirely different bait, with only a 'similar' lip design is an out and out copy of another?
We're an interesting buch sometimes.
------
Love this post! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 582
Location: deephaven mn | better paint than i've seen on other Lee Lures, maybe he has another painter involved |
|
| |
|
Posts: 518
Location: Cave Run Lake KY. | MstrMusky - 2/13/2015 9:03 PM
Propster - 2/13/2015 10:16 AM
And using a bunch of smiley faces, what is that? :)
Today was a good day. Can't I be happy?
Now you ruined it.
Just kidding.
BTW, saw the Pelagic today. Good looking bait. Didn't spend the $100 though. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1901
Location: MN | MstrMusky - 2/13/2015 8:03 PM
Propster - 2/13/2015 10:16 AM
And using a bunch of smiley faces, what is that? :)
Today was a good day. Can't I be happy?
Now you ruined it.
Just kidding.
As was I ! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 964
| kap - 2/15/2015 3:34 PM
better paint than i've seen on other Lee Lures, maybe he has another painter involved
Lee is doing all the painting himself and has been the last couple years on all his baits.
Jeff Hanson
madisonmuskyguide.com |
|
| |
