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Muskie Fishing -> General Discussion -> Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?
 
Message Subject: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?
fins355
Posted 10/24/2014 1:58 PM (#736532)
Subject: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 280


Just wondering what you all consider to be actual taxidermy.
I'm having a long discussion with taxidermists about the correct definition of replicas vs. skin mounts.

I would maintain that a "replica" fish is a model of a fish using none of the actual skin in the finished piece. Since the term "taxidermy" requires the actual skin [ or at least some parts of the skin] to be incorporated in the finished piece how can a replica be taxidermy?

What do you think?? Is it correct and accurate to consider a replica fish an actual piece of "taxidermy"?
OscarTFish
Posted 10/24/2014 2:16 PM (#736536 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: RE: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 81


Location: NEW
I believe "model" is a better definition. Or even sculpture. It's definitely an art form.
Flambeauski
Posted 10/24/2014 2:33 PM (#736537 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 4343


Location: Smith Creek
Taxidermists do skin mounts and artists do replicas.
Not that taxidermists aren't skilled artists, but that's how I differentiate between those who specialize in real or fake.
horsehunter
Posted 10/24/2014 5:01 PM (#736560 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Location: Eastern Ontario
For taxidermy you need a dead fish. A replica is a plastic fish and you can order anything you want whether or not you caught a fish.If you want it baby blue and pink you can have that too. I want neither a photograph does it for me. If I had either my wife would make me dust them myself and I don't dig housework.

Edited by horsehunter 10/24/2014 5:03 PM
esox911
Posted 10/24/2014 7:46 PM (#736581 - in reply to #736560)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 556


I believe the replica's are made out of graphite from a cast of an actual fish of that size--I believe the Taxidermist can alter them slightly and the TAXIDERMISTS are true artists as they apply the eyes--fins and Paint / finish to make them look as good as a skin mount from a distance---up close you can tell the difference between skin and replica but on the wall they both look similar except for the gill/ mouth area. 1 BIG DIFFERENCE between the 2 mounts--1 fish is dead and the other still swimming---well worth it for the replica to keep a Large musky Alive.
mnmusky
Posted 10/24/2014 7:51 PM (#736582 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Unlike real skin mounts, replicas don't look like mummified corpses after a decade.
ajrod88
Posted 10/24/2014 8:46 PM (#736591 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: RE: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?





Posts: 163


Ok. I'm going to be brave and ask a question. I know a lot of people are against getting skin mounts, but would it be extremely selfish and stupid if i kept just one and only one fish to get mounted? I'll be honest i'd love to have a skin mounted fish on the wall if the day ever comes i catch the right fish! A replica really doesn't appeal to me at all because as stated earlier you can just go buy a fish even if you don't catch it. Its just not the same to me. HOWEVER after watching some videos of getting a fish mounted on youtube, i think till your fish goes through the drying and discoloring and recoloring (painting) and gets ready for you its almost not really your fish anymore either! SO I"M NOT SURE WHAT TO DO!!!!!!
Paintguy
Posted 10/24/2014 9:41 PM (#736600 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?





Posts: 14


I was lucky enough to catch my fish of a lifetime. It had scars and hook marks where it was hooked before. I couldn't be more happy with my picture and soon to have replica mount.
fins355
Posted 10/24/2014 10:18 PM (#736603 - in reply to #736600)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 280


Thanks guys.......I'm really just wondering if you think of a replica as being a piece of "taxidermy" or if you consider it a different type of art such as mold making or model making etc.

I'm not looking to compare the two.
Ryan21
Posted 10/24/2014 10:25 PM (#736604 - in reply to #736600)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?





Posts: 34


Location: New Carlisle, IN
I think most fish look better when they are replicas and not skin mounts. I think fish with large scales still look better when they are skin mounts though. If I was dead set on keeping the fish, I personally would rather eat a trophy size fish and enjoy the ritual of a big cookout and then get a replica made and a photo of the actual fish framed with the lure and leader I caught it with. I think the replica muskie mounts are beautiful. I plan on getting a 50+ release mount someday. Skin mounts require maintenance and don't do well with sunlight.
Paintguy
Posted 10/24/2014 10:40 PM (#736607 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?





Posts: 14


I've always thought of replicas as taxidermy as it will be along side several other mounts on my wall. Never had any other thoughts about it.

Edited by Paintguy 10/24/2014 10:41 PM
muskidiem
Posted 10/24/2014 11:06 PM (#736608 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: RE: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?





Posts: 255


In my humble opinion(IMHO) replicas will always be associated with taxidermy. Just a name association. But they are art as someone said, and they are models. When I ordered my replica I was given three choices of size and style, not exactly fitting my fish's measurements. When I picked it up I realized how mass produced they were. I value the replica because it represents the fish I caught, and the real one swam away strong. The 8x12 pic next to it gives the real dimensions.
sworrall
Posted 10/25/2014 7:59 AM (#736624 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?





Posts: 32760


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
It's 'taxidermy' to the layman. As the business adapts to the CPR culture for big fish of many species, taxidermists have to either offer replicas or lose a fairly large portion of their business. Getting the fins, eyes, gills and paint right IS an art, and it takes a taxidermist to understand what has to be done for the client to be happy.

Maybe the strict definition of the term needs to be expanded a bit when looking at fish mounts.
larryc
Posted 10/25/2014 8:12 AM (#736626 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 173


After waiting four years for a replica [prepaid] I'm thinking a vinyl Fathead sounds like a good option ! Must be a good reason only a few artist's names are mentioned when discussing replicas.
dfkiii
Posted 10/25/2014 8:26 AM (#736629 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?





Location: Sawyer County, WI
One can be a taxidermist and an artist, but I don't believe one necessarily implies the other. I've seen some skin mounts with crap paint work. There's no way that taxidermist was an artist and clearly knew nothing about making the client happy.

Whichever route you choose (and I encourage a replica), be sure you view many examples of the taxidermist/artist's work to ensure you are comfortable with their skill. Regardless if you opt for a skin mount or replica, these endeavors are not cheap - caveat emptor !

Edited by dfkiii 10/25/2014 8:33 AM
Larry Ramsell
Posted 10/25/2014 9:02 AM (#736631 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 1275


Location: Hayward, Wisconsin
Fins: I think by your own definitions you answered your own question. Having said that, I don't know anyone who does replica's that isn't a Taxidermist. Probably are some, but they then, by definition, aren't "taxidermists". I'm sure there are some taxidermists that don't do replica's, but as Steve pointed out, they will eventually go the way of the Dodo bird.
ToddM
Posted 10/25/2014 9:41 AM (#736647 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?





Posts: 20173


Location: oswego, il
What about replicas of fish that were caught using suckers? Suckers while using your trolling motor? Trolling? Trolling with guides? Fishing with guides who fish in front of the boat? "inflated measurements? Are these real? Can we tear them off the wall?:-)
sworrall
Posted 10/25/2014 9:51 AM (#736652 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?





Posts: 32760


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Geez.
fins355
Posted 10/25/2014 9:59 AM (#736656 - in reply to #736624)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 280


sworall...."It's 'taxidermy' to the layman."
I agree Steve. Good point.

sworall..."Maybe the strict definition of the term needs to be expanded a bit when looking at fish mounts."

This is the basis of the discussion with the taxidermists. Many want replica work to be labeled "taxidermy" and many do not accept that.
It's an interesting debate. Especially as new materials and techniques are being developed and offered by taxidermists and mold makers.
fins355
Posted 10/25/2014 10:07 AM (#736658 - in reply to #736631)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 280



Larry Ramsell...."Fins: I think by your own definitions you answered your own question. Having said that, I don't know anyone who does replica's that isn't a Taxidermist. Probably are some, but they then, by definition, aren't "taxidermists". I'm sure there are some taxidermists that don't do replica's, but as Steve pointed out, they will eventually go the way of the Dodo bird."

Larry, with all the unpainted "replica blanks" available from taxidermy supply companies today there are many guys/gals doing replicas without actually having the ability to skin mount a fish. This is the crux of the debate.

So your thought is as your quote..."but they then, by definition, aren't "taxidermists".

This is the type of opinion I'm interested in.

Thanks guys.
esoxaddict
Posted 10/25/2014 12:16 PM (#736672 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?





Posts: 8702


I think most of the guys doing quality replicas are taxidermists. The replica business is fairly new. These guys and their craft are not. It's a matter of preferance - with a skin mount you're still using a mold. The fins and head and skin are the actual fish parts. Replica molds were cast from actual fish, but no part of it is made of fish.

I've got an old skin mount from the 80's that looks as good as it did the day I got it. But I've seen quite a few that really look deteriorated.

To me replica making and taxidermy are two different art forms. Where the rubber meets the road is the ability to paint it and make it look realistic.
Sorgy
Posted 10/26/2014 9:50 PM (#736939 - in reply to #736672)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 304


Location: Lino Lakes, MN
World Class fish deserve World Class Taxidermist! If you catch that fish of a lifetime spend world class $$$$ on your mount. Otherwise look at any of the top replicas. I have a Lax replica and think it is outstanding. Hopefully someone else gets to encounter that fish again.

Please practice catch, photograph and release.

Steve
fins355
Posted 10/27/2014 8:49 AM (#736997 - in reply to #736939)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 280


Sorgy....that's fine.
What I'm hoping for is opinions on whether you consider replica work to be "taxidermy" by definition or should it be termed a different form "art".

As we all know...it's possible to "create" a fish from a mold without actually having the fish. Many different materials can be used to accomplish that.

Should doing that, from a mold, without the fish,
be termed "taxidermy" as taxidermy is defined??

Thanks again for your answers!
Flambeauski
Posted 10/27/2014 8:56 AM (#737000 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 4343


Location: Smith Creek
Is there anyone out there making replicas that don't also do taxidermy (skin mounts)?
SHO-NUFF
Posted 10/27/2014 9:47 AM (#737016 - in reply to #736591)
Subject: RE: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 76


It's a matter of "personal choice." Don't be "swayed" by the opinions of others--- or by what they might think/say regarding the LEGAL keeping of a fish for mounting. As long as you have a valid fishing license and catch "said fish" by LEGAL means---- you have ALL THE RIGHT necessary to put "YOUR TROPHY" on the wall, if you should choose to do so. People might argue that it takes "time" to replenish a low density fish such as a big musky---but truthfully, most anglers have NO CLUE how many big fish are present in a lake's population at any given time. Your definition of a "wallhanger" could vary greatly from what others think/believe---- but that's what makes it YOURS. I had a replica made over a decade ago---- it's STILL GORGEOUS-----like the day I got it----- the fish that I released would have been "state record" proportion for two years(at the time it was caught) ------ and now the fishing on the lake that she came from is INCREDIBLE. However there have been MANY monster fish taken from our lake over the last ten years plus----- so my MONSTER was obviously not alone. If you want to keep a fish--- do it---- you are totally within your rights------ don't let anyone tell you differently. Good luck out there--- Pat
ronmuskie
Posted 10/27/2014 10:05 AM (#737021 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 1


Long time lurker,first time poster here.Just wanted to add my .002 as a taxidermist i have seen an increasing demand for fish replicas,while these may not be considered taxidermy by the taxidermy definition,the molds that are available were cast from real fish.I have a Fittante replica of my pb hanging on my wall and am totally happy.I have another taxidermist real close to me that mounted the Joe Seeberger fish from lake Bellaire,and he cast the fish and has the mold for that one.Its all a matter of preference i guess,but any taxidermist that specializes in fish offeres both.
Medford Fisher
Posted 10/27/2014 10:26 AM (#737028 - in reply to #736532)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 1054


Location: Medford, WI
I like this definition of what taxidermy is: Taxidermy is a general term describing the many methods of reproducing a life-like three-dimensional representation of an animal for permanent display.
Found at: http://www.taxidermy.net/information/whatis.html

Addict, I agree with your first few statements but would highly disagree with "To me replica making and taxidermy are two different art forms. Where the rubber meets the road is the ability to paint it and make it look realistic." If you've ever seen a skin mount done by someone who isn't good at painting, you would never say it looks good. The same can be said for a deer mount or any other animal.

dfkiii
Posted 10/27/2014 10:36 AM (#737033 - in reply to #737016)
Subject: RE: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?





Location: Sawyer County, WI

Just because something is LEGAL it doesn't necessarily mean it's RIGHT. Let your ETHICS (or lack thereof) be your guide.

SHO-NUFF - 10/27/2014 9:47 AM

It's a matter of "personal choice." Don't be "swayed" by the opinions of others--- or by what they might think/say regarding the LEGAL keeping of a fish for mounting. As long as you have a valid fishing license and catch "said fish" by LEGAL means---- you have ALL THE RIGHT necessary to put "YOUR TROPHY" on the wall, if you should choose to do so. People might argue that it takes "time" to replenish a low density fish such as a big musky---but truthfully, most anglers have NO CLUE how many big fish are present in a lake's population at any given time. Your definition of a "wallhanger" could vary greatly from what others think/believe---- but that's what makes it YOURS. I had a replica made over a decade ago---- it's STILL GORGEOUS-----like the day I got it----- the fish that I released would have been "state record" proportion for two years(at the time it was caught) ------ and now the fishing on the lake that she came from is INCREDIBLE. However there have been MANY monster fish taken from our lake over the last ten years plus----- so my MONSTER was obviously not alone. If you want to keep a fish--- do it---- you are totally within your rights------ don't let anyone tell you differently. Good luck out there--- Pat
fins355
Posted 10/27/2014 11:03 AM (#737043 - in reply to #737000)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 280


Flambeauski....yes, there are people who are doing replicas that don't do and don't have the ability to do, skin mounts.
This is the crux of the debate within the taxidermy industry. Should these people be called taxidermists and is replica work actually taxidermy.
fins355
Posted 10/27/2014 11:08 AM (#737046 - in reply to #737028)
Subject: Re: Is a replica fish actual taxidermy?




Posts: 280


Medford....so you think that a 3D "representation" of an animal can be classified as taxidermy even if it has no actual skin of the fish [animal] in the final product.

You mention the taxidermy.net definition but the debate also involves the Merriam Webster dictionary definition;

taxi·der·my
noun \'tak-s?-?d?r-me: the skill, activity, or job of preparing, stuffing, and mounting the skins of dead animals so that they look like they did when they were alive.



Edited by fins355 10/27/2014 11:49 AM
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