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Muskie Fishing -> General Discussion -> Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....
 
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Message Subject: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....
Nell
Posted 1/2/2014 12:29 AM (#681704)
Subject: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....




Posts: 116


So we make muskie lures and have a small shop, new business in northern Minnesota. We also started to make spear decoys. I have always speared and love the sport. MN just lifted the no spear ban on several muskie lakes. I agree with this... you should be able to spear... takes away quick plays on fast moving pike but more challenge. I for one know the difference between a pike and a muskie albeit I never tried spearing a muskie lake so perhaps my opinion is off. Any how, over New Years we got in conversation with the vice president of the spearing association here who laid into muskie fishing and stated they were trying to ban muskie stocking in MN due to ruining the spear fishing in the good/clear spearing lakes.

We never thought of it but making decoys for spearing and muskie lures may be political suicide. Interested in any and all opinions. Obviously, I personally am all for muskie improvements in MN.
JKahler
Posted 1/2/2014 1:34 AM (#681706 - in reply to #681704)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....




Posts: 1203


Location: WI
The Dark House Assoc wants to spear muskies. Eventually I think they will get their way unfortunatly. Somehow they got their way politically with the Cass Lk ban being lifted. The DNR was against this. It's unfortunate that law changes are done politically instead of by the DNR.

It's too bad groups of fishermen and spearers can't work together somehow, but not all of the outdoors people are conservation minded.

Edited by JKahler 1/2/2014 1:35 AM
Kirby Budrow
Posted 1/2/2014 6:03 AM (#681713 - in reply to #681704)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Location: Little Falls
That's not the news I wanted to wake up to.
ILmuskie
Posted 1/2/2014 7:42 AM (#681716 - in reply to #681704)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Posts: 359


Location: underwater island near Chicago
I don't like to kill fish or animals!
sworrall
Posted 1/2/2014 8:21 AM (#681721 - in reply to #681716)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
ILmuskie - 1/2/2014 7:42 AM

I don't like to kill fish or animals!


I do, and strongly support the right to do so tempered by conservation and a good dose of reality. And we do kill some muskies by fishing for them and releasing them.

I have no issue with spearing Pike if managing for trophy pike is not the goal.

I disagree with the political process that short circuits real management goals.

Spearing muskies would definitely reduce trophy numbers and that significantly. Those of us who live in the Ceded Territory have 25 years of experience on that front. The battle between muskie anglers and the dark house folks in Minnesota is sad; only because the results to date ignore the stated management goals of the MNDNR, which is ludicrous if one doesn't want some politician with zero fisheries management knowledge running the F&G policies over there..

ToddM
Posted 1/2/2014 8:35 AM (#681726 - in reply to #681704)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Posts: 9374


Location: oswego, il
Agree with Steve 100%. I have a question for the spearers. What is the judgment call to spear? Fish look bigger in the water, it has to be possible to spear undersized fish and that judgment I am sure changes on a slow day looking through the hole.
bigred2198
Posted 1/2/2014 9:48 AM (#681741 - in reply to #681704)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....




Posts: 212


i don't spear as much as i used to as i don't have the time. You can tell the difference between a muskie and a northern. On that note i know a lot of people who spear and have never heard any of them say that they want to spear muskies. I spear only a couple of fish a year around 5 lbs to eat, my daughter thinks it is cool to see the fish as it is just like an aquarium. It is kind of like deer hunting i let a lot of nice fish go hoping to one day get the "booner" of northerns, just like letting a lot of nice deer go.
'
Nell
Posted 1/2/2014 12:55 PM (#681792 - in reply to #681704)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....




Posts: 116


I don't agree with spearing muskie.... I see no issue with spearing northern pikes in muskie lakes. I will say that I do believe the northern pike bite seems to be lower in muskie lakes but we have caught some monster pike.... I let them go as well to grow more....

That question makes me wonder... spearing if going for trophy pike or spearing slot limit on pike... yeah I suppose if I speared on a muskie lake I would be aggravated. I spear on none pike lakes. Plenty of lakes to chose from although the dark water pike lakes.... I saw my decoy move and stared and stared hard to see decoy too low ten pound pike... yep missed it. My opinion is colored as I like muskie fishing more
Propster
Posted 1/2/2014 1:00 PM (#681796 - in reply to #681704)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....




Posts: 959


Location: MN
I think as in most groups the majority of the individuals are good, conscientious, and law-abiding. I'm sure it's the same with spearers. And I think if they knew what a low density population muskies are and the tremendous efforts to get them stocked, they'd likely consider not throwing. But the fact is it's the darkhouse assn trying to get it legalized, and knowing their desire to eliminate stocking and be able to spear muskies you know there are a few who would go nuts.
Baby Mallard
Posted 1/2/2014 2:59 PM (#681841 - in reply to #681792)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Nell - 1/2/2014 12:55 PM I don't agree with spearing muskie.... I see no issue with spearing northern pikes in muskie lakes. I will say that I do believe the northern pike bite seems to be lower in muskie lakes but we have caught some monster pike.... I let them go as well to grow more.... That question makes me wonder... spearing if going for trophy pike or spearing slot limit on pike... yeah I suppose if I speared on a muskie lake I would be aggravated. I spear on none pike lakes. Plenty of lakes to chose from although the dark water pike lakes.... I saw my decoy move and stared and stared hard to see decoy too low ten pound pike... yep missed it. My opinion is colored as I like muskie fishing more

 Slot limits on pike are not just on muskie lakes.  Many slot limits on pike on non-muskie lakes.

 The day spearing muskies becomes legal in MN is the day I put up all my muskie gear up for sale. Just saying...



Edited by Baby Mallard 1/2/2014 3:16 PM
ToddM
Posted 1/2/2014 3:11 PM (#681846 - in reply to #681704)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Posts: 9374


Location: oswego, il
So how do you determine size limit while spearing? With a slot now you have two sizes to consider. I would not think the fish could be close and be able to make a decision. Is it easy to tell pike from musky and size in dark water?

Edited by ToddM 1/2/2014 4:46 PM
jonnysled
Posted 1/2/2014 3:12 PM (#681847 - in reply to #681846)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Location: minocqua, wi.
it's easy to know what a fish is in a darkhouse = yes
IAJustin
Posted 1/2/2014 3:44 PM (#681854 - in reply to #681847)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Posts: 1255


easy if you know what to look for....It amazes me how many "fisherman" don't know what they are holding AFTER they catch it ...let alone see it in the water.
esoxaddict
Posted 1/2/2014 4:22 PM (#681863 - in reply to #681704)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Posts: 5219


I'd like to believe that a vast majority of those that spear are serious enough about their craft that they know the difference between a musky and a pike when they see one. However, it's been my experience that the average angler doesn't know one from the other. Even the folks you would think should know the difference often do not.

I'm not against spearing, provided that it is done according to the law and the law is based on the best interests of the fisheries as well as the interests of those who those resources. Having never done it I can't say for sure, but I'd be willing to bet that after half a day or so standing over a hole in the ice waiting for a fish to swim by that one might get a bit "spear happy" and tend to poke anything that comes into view before the distinction is made as to what it is.

aceguide
Posted 1/2/2014 4:29 PM (#681865 - in reply to #681854)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....




Posts: 28


Location: Tower, Lake Vermilion
I know it's only my opinion but I don't understand what satisfaction one could possibly get by sticking a spear in a giant Pike or Muskie. It's not like you had to do much to get that fish to come to your hole. You don't angle for it or cast to a great looking spot where you think a big fish is located. You don't have to play the fish or do a figure eight to get it to take your bait...You see it swim into the hole and you stick it, then you pull it out, big wow!!!! Boy I bet that dead fish with holes in it really makes a fine mount.
Lets face it, spearing is a harvest method, nothing more nothing less.

JMHO
"Ace"
jonnysled
Posted 1/2/2014 4:44 PM (#681870 - in reply to #681865)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Location: minocqua, wi.
i don't think anyone would argue that spearing is a harvest method.

pour a bucket of corn on a trail, wait to lure in a buck and pull the trigger = harvest sport.

some like to do it and others don't like that they do it. it is regulated and traditional like most gun/angling sports. if pike were managed as a no-take vs. a renewable harvest resource then you would have an argument, but they are not. carving, painting and making lures and bringing pike in a dark-house is a traditional sport not unlike many others and it's fun. if there are no fish then it's no fun, but it's been going on a long, long time and "most" people who do it support and require the fish to be available in order to do it. as long as that is in balance i see no problem with it.

driving around pulling baits behind a boat and having a fish hit then reeling it in with essentially cable while the boat is still running is sport too then?

Edited by jonnysled 1/2/2014 4:45 PM
0723
Posted 1/2/2014 6:13 PM (#681888 - in reply to #681870)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Posts: 968


Location: midlothian,IL
I am against spearing,netting,and even bow and arrow fishing .I dont believe this is sportsmanship,just plain harvest.I dont have a problem with fishing and harvest either,just politics instead of sportsmanship.I think this whole reason people are allowed to spear, is political as in political correctness ,but that is only my opinion.I think the spearing in general would be outlawed all together world wide, if it did not benefit a certain group.0723
esoxaddict
Posted 1/2/2014 6:31 PM (#681895 - in reply to #681704)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Posts: 5219


You may not think it's "fun" to stick a spear in something, but it's not exactly fun to whack walleyes and panfish over the head and fillet them, either. It's a means to an end. Everything we eat had to die one way or the other. I much prefer knowing that it was alive a few hours ago, and that I actually participated actively in my place in the food chain by killing it and eating it. We may cringe at the person who spears a trophy pike, but what's so different from a pike vs. a bucket of crappies? What's so different from a pike and a buck that had the misfortune of walking past a tree you've been sitting in all day? I'm pretty sure the burger I ate a few days ago was not killed in a sporting fashion, either.
Cody
Posted 1/2/2014 6:32 PM (#681896 - in reply to #681704)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....




Posts: 249


Location: NW. Pa.
Guess I'm real glad we don't have that problem in Pa.....YET !
0723
Posted 1/2/2014 6:42 PM (#681899 - in reply to #681895)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Posts: 968


Location: midlothian,IL
esoxaddict - 1/2/2014 6:31 PM

You may not think it's "fun" to stick a spear in something, but it's not exactly fun to whack walleyes and panfish over the head and fillet them, either. It's a means to an end. Everything we eat had to die one way or the other. I much prefer knowing that it was alive a few hours ago, and that I actually participated actively in my place in the food chain by killing it and eating it. We may cringe at the person who spears a trophy pike, but what's so different from a pike vs. a bucket of crappies? What's so different from a pike and a buck that had the misfortune of walking past a tree you've been sitting in all day? I'm pretty sure the burger I ate a few days ago was not killed in a sporting fashion, either.
Nice rebuttal alot of good points.I see alot more sportsmanship catching a fish, than seeing it ride by and spear it.Hell why not just use dynamite.The big problem is most will spear anything that goes by(unlike deer hunting,deer only) like most meat hunters.The policticians would vote this out no doubt if they werent afraid which group this offends the most and lose some precious votes.0723

Edited by 0723 1/2/2014 6:44 PM
Propster
Posted 1/2/2014 7:32 PM (#681908 - in reply to #681704)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....




Posts: 959


Location: MN
While I don't do it myself, I'm leery of telling someone they can't practice an age old tradition just because we don't agree with that method. We need to be careful what we wish for. But I'm referring to pike spearing only. And with slot limits (however that would be enforced) where the DNR has deemed them necessary or beneficial. Sled, I know that you enjoy and target big pike thru the ice. Does it bother you the catch and kill nature of spearing, especially on big pike waters? Heck a trophy pike south of Canada is probably more rare than a muskie.
Pointerpride102
Posted 1/2/2014 7:48 PM (#681915 - in reply to #681888)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Posts: 8024


Location: The desert
0723 - 1/2/2014 5:13 PM

I am against spearing,netting,and even bow and arrow fishing .I dont believe this is sportsmanship,just plain harvest.I dont have a problem with fishing and harvest either,just politics instead of sportsmanship.I think this whole reason people are allowed to spear, is political as in political correctness ,but that is only my opinion.I think the spearing in general would be outlawed all together world wide, if it did not benefit a certain group.0723


This is really well informed and thought out.
Ja Rule
Posted 1/2/2014 7:54 PM (#681920 - in reply to #681888)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....




Posts: 415


0723 - 1/2/2014 6:13 PM

I am against spearing,netting,and even bow and arrow fishing .I dont believe this is sportsmanship,just plain harvest.I dont have a problem with fishing and harvest either,just politics instead of sportsmanship.I think this whole reason people are allowed to spear, is political as in political correctness ,but that is only my opinion.I think the spearing in general would be outlawed all together world wide, if it did not benefit a certain group.0723



You say you don't mind people harvesting fish by hook and line, but you do by spear? This makes no sense to me, harvest is harvest. Actually the majority of your post makes no sense so I'm not sure why I bother.

Edited by Ja Rule 1/2/2014 7:56 PM
0723
Posted 1/2/2014 8:59 PM (#681943 - in reply to #681920)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Posts: 968


Location: midlothian,IL
Ja Rule - 1/2/2014 7:54 PM

0723 - 1/2/2014 6:13 PM

I am against spearing,netting,and even bow and arrow fishing .I dont believe this is sportsmanship,just plain harvest.I dont have a problem with fishing and harvest either,just politics instead of sportsmanship.I think this whole reason people are allowed to spear, is political as in political correctness ,but that is only my opinion.I think the spearing in general would be outlawed all together world wide, if it did not benefit a certain group.0723



You say you don't mind people harvesting fish by hook and line, but you do by spear? This makes no sense to me, harvest is harvest. Actually the majority of your post makes no sense so I'm not sure why I bother.
Spearing harvest is not fishing harvest.What dont you understand?Spearing is 100 percent harvest there is no live release.I said I dont have problem with harvest not 100 percent of your catch to keep.'A certain group spears and , bottom line no politican is going to cross them if he/she stands a chance to run for bigger office someday.I dont know why i bother to explain the obvious to you maybe you are a pol too.0723

Edited by 0723 1/2/2014 9:16 PM
Troyz.
Posted 1/2/2014 9:02 PM (#681944 - in reply to #681920)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....




Posts: 693


Location: Watertown, MN
Nell, the major conflict is that the Dark houses does not want to follow guidlines set up by the DNR to establish trophy esox. They dont liike slots limits, they want more waters to spear as we want more to stock muskys, they are very small group, but are very effective in getting their way in goverment beuaracracy, and have hand cuffed the DNR for managing our fisheries, and had some elected officials make decision. We had worked with them on the Esox Round table and they did not like what was proposed, and took there spear and went home. So no love loss for them, and yes they spear muskies, pics are captured every year of speared muskies.

Troyz
0723
Posted 1/2/2014 9:14 PM (#681948 - in reply to #681944)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Posts: 968


Location: midlothian,IL
Spearing was a tradition of harvest to eat.This is not a problem in 2014 in minnesota or wisconsin.Now in Alaska the eskimo spear/hunt seals ,for some its their only source of meat ,thats a different story.I dont think people are starving in Minn/Wisc because they cant spear pike walleye and musky.To many regulations are broken to continue this mockery as an excuse for tradition in our present country.0723

Edited by 0723 1/2/2014 9:34 PM
Pointerpride102
Posted 1/2/2014 10:06 PM (#681964 - in reply to #681920)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Posts: 8024


Location: The desert
Ja Rule - 1/2/2014 6:54 PM

0723 - 1/2/2014 6:13 PM

I am against spearing,netting,and even bow and arrow fishing .I dont believe this is sportsmanship,just plain harvest.I dont have a problem with fishing and harvest either,just politics instead of sportsmanship.I think this whole reason people are allowed to spear, is political as in political correctness ,but that is only my opinion.I think the spearing in general would be outlawed all together world wide, if it did not benefit a certain group.0723



You say you don't mind people harvesting fish by hook and line, but you do by spear? This makes no sense to me, harvest is harvest. Actually the majority of your post makes no sense so I'm not sure why I bother.


You just had to, didn't you.
0723
Posted 1/2/2014 10:11 PM (#681969 - in reply to #681943)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Posts: 968


Location: midlothian,IL
0723 - 1/2/2014 8:59 PM

Ja Rule - 1/2/2014 7:54 PM

0723 - 1/2/2014 6:13 PM

I am against spearing,netting,and even bow and arrow fishing .I dont believe this is sportsmanship,just plain harvest.I dont have a problem with fishing and harvest either,just politics instead of sportsmanship.I think this whole reason people are allowed to spear, is political as in political correctness ,but that is only my opinion.I think the spearing in general would be outlawed all together world wide, if it did not benefit a certain group.0723



You say you don't mind people harvesting fish by hook and line, but you do by spear? This makes no sense to me, harvest is harvest. Actually the majority of your post makes no sense so I'm not sure why I bother.
Spearing harvest is not fishing harvest.What dont you understand?Spearing is 100 percent harvest there is no live release.I said I dont have problem with harvest not 100 percent of your catch to keep.'A certain group spears and , bottom line no politican is going to cross them if he/she stands a chance to run for bigger office someday.I dont know why i bother to explain the obvious to you maybe you are a pol too.0723
yes i did!
Pointerpride102
Posted 1/2/2014 10:14 PM (#681972 - in reply to #681948)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Posts: 8024


Location: The desert
0723 - 1/2/2014 8:14 PM

Spearing was a tradition of harvest to eat.This is not a problem in 2014 in minnesota or wisconsin.Now in Alaska the eskimo spear/hunt seals ,for some its their only source of meat ,thats a different story.I dont think people are starving in Minn/Wisc because they cant spear pike walleye and musky.To many regulations are broken to continue this mockery as an excuse for tradition in our present country.0723


We should shut down fishing then as multiple regulations are broken every year. No one is starving so they don't need angling harvest. Not to mention eliminating boating and fishing would eliminate the invasive species threat to the nation, reduce pollution etc.
0723
Posted 1/2/2014 10:17 PM (#681973 - in reply to #681972)
Subject: Re: Muskie versus spearing pike... your thoughts....





Posts: 968


Location: midlothian,IL
Pointerpride102 - 1/2/2014 10:14 PM

0723 - 1/2/2014 8:14 PM

Spearing was a tradition of harvest to eat.This is not a problem in 2014 in minnesota or wisconsin.Now in Alaska the eskimo spear/hunt seals ,for some its their only source of meat ,thats a different story.I dont think people are starving in Minn/Wisc because they cant spear pike walleye and musky.To many regulations are broken to continue this mockery as an excuse for tradition in our present country.0723


We should shut down fishing then as multiple regulations are broken every year. No one is starving so they don't need angling harvest. Not to mention eliminating boating and fishing would eliminate the invasive species threat to the nation, reduce pollution etc.
All catch and release I will go along with that.If your caught its a felony.Electric motors for boating sounds good too.This might be some of the smartest things you have ever said here,good job guy.0723
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