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Posts: 14
| Whats up everyone. I'm in the market for a musky and pike fly fishing outfit. I've decided to go with a TFO rod but I'm not sure whether I should get a 10 weight or a 12 weight. Any suggestions ??? |
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | You can definitely use a 10 wt over a 12 wt set up. Most musky and pike flies, you can even get away with an 8-9 wt set up. |
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| I fish a fast 8wt which worked fine last year for me, just got a new set up for this year as well...I am a bit on the light side I suppose though...However I have not really run into any fish over 25lbs and also want to be able to use it for steelhead as well. It can be an expensive hobby, BR |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | A 10 is fine. I fish 10's and 11's, but 10's are fine. As said above, some guys do very well with 8's and 9's. I overgun my rods as much for moving the flies as do the size of the fish on the end. A 12 would not be overkill for a big muskie, but when a rod gets that large, it's not a casting rod. It's a fighting rod. Think tarpon fishing, where you fish for 8 hrs and make less than 40 casts all day. You can do that on a 12 wt. Fan casting all day long with a 12 would get very very tiresome. A few years ago 10's weren't casting rods, but with technology being as it is, you can now comfortably consider them casting rods, and they won't kill you. |
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Posts: 14
| Alright 10 sounds pretty good for what im going to be doing...now what about lines,leaders, and flies. Whats your suggestions on that? |
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| Lines are going to depend on how you are fishing, I mostly wade for pike and tiger muskie...so I have been using rio pike line and works fine for me. I also only use 4-6 inch flies. They are pretty bland flies as well, I use an all chart, an all black, or a red/yellow combo. I keep it pretty simple, but will say a pike or tiger on the fly is great, especially when you trigger the strike a few feet from your legs! I think some of these other folks will have better suggestions as you might want to use a few different lines based on what you are fishing...BR
Edited by BenR 3/16/2010 9:21 PM
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | How can an 8wt be gorderline for a ski but is recommended also as a good bass rod? |
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| bassinbob84 - 3/16/2010 10:05 PM
How can an 8wt be gorderline for a ski but is recommended also as a good bass rod?
Well fly rods work a bit different, length makes a difference, size of fly you are throwing, some rods have a stronger back bone so you are not fighting the fish with just the reel...There are hundreds of different make ups for an 8wt...Also I think for the most part unless you are using a super large fly, you can do just fine with a smaller rod for bass...Like I said I caught a few mid 40 inch pike and tigers on an 8wt with little issue last year...I even left them in the water for the unhooking and release...barbless. BR |
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | Thanks for clearing that up for me Ben. I want to try fly fishing this year and have been looking at rods. There are so many options it gets confusing. Thankfully jakejusa has been putting up with most of my stupid questions.lol |
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| Ask away, I am pretty new at it, but have really enjoyed it. You can never really ask too many questions for fly fishing as everyone does it a bit different, it is a pretty personal sport. You customize your set up to how you fish...it is serious fun though..Ben |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Keystone Musky - 3/16/2010 9:57 PM
Alright 10 sounds pretty good for what im going to be doing...now what about lines,leaders, and flies. Whats your suggestions on that?
For lines, I'm just not happy with alot of the "pike/muskie" lines out there for casting my flies. For most medium sized muskie flies, they work. But for larger flies like what I like to use, they just don't move them like I'd like. Add to that, that most only go to 10 wt, and I cast a few 11's as well, and you sure as heck can't underline for muskie flies of any size. Most line makers just shorten the front and/or rear taper and call it a pike line. You need the short taper to turn the flies over, especially very large flies. But what alot of them leave out are short heads and heavier than standard bellies. I pretty much dispense with front taper, as I'm not worried about finnese. I use cut down Skagit lines, which are super fat and super heavy bellied lines. I want a short belly with alot of weight in it to load the rod with only a few feet of line outsided the tip (I retrieve all the way to my leader for the 8). I cut down a 750 gr Skagit head to about 10-12' and that leaves me with head somewhere in the high-300 gr range.
I also use alot of the new saltwater lines meant for tarpon and offshore fish. They've done great things with clear lines in the past two years and using them, cut down with the right head works really well. They're even doing clear floating lines now, which a few years ago wasn't happening.
Whipped loops and Bimini Twists for all connections.
Edited by esoxfly 3/16/2010 11:31 PM
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | Jeff, got any pictures of the connections you use? I'm sure my connections (ie knots) could use some updating. I hear a lot about the bimini twist, and know how to tie it, but not sure what knot is most preferred (mainly for the fly line to the tippet). I forget what I'm using now, but it is probably a nail knot. Hasn't come undone yet on me, but that knot makes me nervous. lol Also for tying wire (I usually have Tyger leader on the front end of my tippets) to the leader.
Thanks! |
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Posts: 994
Location: Minnesota: where it's tough to be a sportsfan! | This is some great infro guys! I'd like to hear more about the tiplets used as I've messed with some really bizzare stuff and even have a couple rigs set up w/o them. I went straight from the fly line to a floro carbon leader for working close qrts. I'd also like to hear about anyone using or trying a spey rod for Muskie/Pike. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | I use a spey for steelhead out west, but sure not for muskie. I've not seen the need...no need for super long casts, and back cast space isn't limited. I enjoy two handed casting, but not enough to do muskie on it. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | tuffy1 - 3/17/2010 8:33 AM
Jeff, got any pictures of the connections you use?
No, but I can get some if you'd like. Nothing fancy, just a whipped loop in the fly line and a Bimini in everything else. Then loop-to-loop connection. Prevents hinging and the connection is stronger than the each respective line. |
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Posts: 994
Location: Minnesota: where it's tough to be a sportsfan! | What are you using for tippets or are you running a shock leader? |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | It depends on when/where I'm fishing. Depending on which rod I'm using, rigged with what line, I'll sometimes run the 12" FC bite tippet right to the fly line, but that's only running a clear fly line. Running a conventional fly line, I'll put 3-5' of 40" Maxim ahead of the bite tippet. I'm not out for records, so I forego any type of class tippet. I don't mess around with 10-15 lb in the system anywhere. I'll be #*^@ed if I have a break off. But I do abide by IGFA rules of my bite tippet being 12" or less. |
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Location: MN | For lines, I have heard some good feedback from musky and striper guys on the RIO Outbound and RIO Outbound Short. I have not used either, but planning on putting an intermediate on one of my rigs for this season. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Rio makes great lines for any type fishing, and I've got several of their Outbounds. Great lines, and will move! Rio and Teeny are my go-to line companies. |
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Posts: 607
Location: Bloomington, MN | I think I found my new mentors!!! Half of the fly fishing terms used in this post went over my head, but as Mr. Ramis stated in the movie "Stripes","I'm willing to learn!". Actually it was "We are willing to learn!". Mr. Worrall, is it possible if interest in pursuing the muskellunge with a fly increases can we get a sub-forum page??? I'm personally terrible at capturing these fish with conventional tackle, but have been persuaded to give this a shot. This fly fishing scenario hopefully will be opening a new realm of the sport for me after 35+ years of the chuck and wind method. I'm quite sure my intrigue with this approach will fade after I imbed a hunk of wet bunny fur in the back of my skull, but just to get one on a fly would be the highlight of my 2010 season. I'm familiar with a small boulder pile on a reef in Pelican Lake, WI., that over many years I have often seen a fish sitting in the boulders during calm conditions, minimal bloom, and during the middle of the day. We have hit this spot many times with conventional lures and may have caught/hooked 1 fish (more than likely it was choppy conditions during the evening). I recall several times of running a bait by the pile and seeing a swirl indicating we spooked a fish. I have convinced myself that if and when I can do this, and I'm up there when the conditions are the same, and if there is a fish there...it will munch on a fly. Unfortunately this is the only spot like that I'm currently aware of, and admit this is a very weak game plan, but I'm going to run with it. I realize that I'm becoming very much like the George Costanza character, and I probably should do the total opposite of what I'm thinking!
Edited by Clark A 3/19/2010 12:33 AM
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Posts: 994
Location: Minnesota: where it's tough to be a sportsfan! | Why turn back now, if you've been chunking and winding for years you've already got a fortune into the game! All you're talking about now is switch hitting!!Ha Ha I have a confidence fly pattern that isn't the prettiest but has proven it's worth. I would be willing to tie you up one if it will help out the transition. Jake |
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | I use a 9'9" 8 wt. I use it so seldom though that I don't sink the kind of money into the line that I should. I basically just keep an eye on clearance bins for old saltwater lines; they work ok since they will turn over a pretty big bug, but if it gets cold, they get too stiff. But then, when it comes to chuckin' flies, I'm pretty fair-weather anyway.
S. |
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Posts: 994
Location: Minnesota: where it's tough to be a sportsfan! | I too am a "buy on sale" guy for my fly fishing. I have found that success isn't because of the distance in most of the Muskie fly fishing I've done. Although I still have the dream of that large cast that shoots way over to "that" reedbed. I've never had my flyline fail and I do not spend much. I have run everything from wire, 65 lb. F.C. to 150 Lb. FC or Big Game leader material for leaders. I do stretch my line out two or three times a season and will if needed wash the line. A guy out Montana way told me that spraying silicone on a rag and reeeling the fly line through it will help performance. He said it will make a cheap line act like an expensive one. I have not tried it yet though. I have made sure the fly rods are not left out in the sun when not being fished though as the UV will take a toll. |
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Posts: 457
| Esox gives great advice. I can't disagree with much. I don't like cut down Sakgits, though, I prefer shooting heads and running line. I also don't like saltwater lines in freshwater around there, they get far too dirty and gummy, reducing their castability. (If you fish tannic waters at all, you'll find the same in a relatively short time.)
Leaders are another item that can have a lot of contention, anymore I prefer a level 20lb Maxima Chameleon with titanium bite tippet. http://moldychum.squarespace.com/home-old/2010/3/2/titanium-bite-ti... that shows the same method I use.
When it comes to flies, being a professional tier has it's advantages. I have virtually unlimited materials at my disposal, and don't mind experimenting. OK, I love experimenting with patterns, that's what I do. (Albeit trout patterns...) I tie a lot of Puglisi style ties, as well as a few of my own, bunny bugs, and various streamers that I've designed through the years.
Most of my pike and muskie come to an 8Wt, with the occasional ten weight thrown as well. I also throw a six weight Winston XTR with sink tip or full sinking a lot. (Though, that rod is extremely powerful, it's more along the lines of most 8 weights.)
In regards to spey rods, I don't use a full spey, but I use a 10'6" switch rod a lot. Unless you're on a river with pronounced current, spey techniques aren't very conducive to fishing big flies. You're counting on the drift, essentially, for your retrieve. It's near impossible to control a 14' rod and strip all day long. |
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Posts: 994
Location: Minnesota: where it's tough to be a sportsfan! | Would you consider posting some pics of favorite Muskie fly's? |
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