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Posts: 576
Location: nappanee IN | what's the truth about ethanol in gas as far as outboards?had one guy tell me that they have emptied 3 tanks because of the % og ethanol in the fuel.says there is a class action lawsuit against the oil companies for what it does to our motors.
so who can tell me what is really going on? |
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Posts: 271
Location: davis,IL | Ethanol is an additive used to boost octane levels, meaning it can be added to lesser quality gas to bring it up to 87octane ( the minimum required for most engines) or more. The downsides are more than most people know, besides acting as a solvent in conventional 2 strokes, it attracts moisture and it burns hotter. This hotter burn, in engines not designed for ethanol can be disasterous (melted pistons, valves, heads etc.) Most modern engines are designed to handle 10 - 15% at most, the engines noted as" flex fuel" can handle 85% ethanol. These "flex fuel" engines have lower heat range (colder) spark plugs, larger cooling systems, and fuel delivery systems designed to resist the corrosive effects of ethanol. I,ve seen and heard of numerous 2 strokes damaged by excessive ethanol. Only the newer DFI 2 strokes and 4 strokes will have the "true" ability to run 10 - 15% ethanol fuel without damaging internal engine components and fuel systems.
Edited by muskydope 5/25/2009 7:53 PM
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Posts: 1887
Location: syracuse indiana | yea karol, i have heard of running the new marine stabil , but i can tfind it around here.. but i have read on other sites that it is good for the fuels of today with ethanol in it...
i also have a older optimax and thats a dfi but 10 years old not sure if it was made with ethanol in mind back then....bill |
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Posts: 1316
Location: Lebanon,Mo | It shouldnt have anything to do with oil companies,its a federal and state regulation on ethanol blends.Some states require up to 10% blend and some dont require any.And since the new law last year,they dont have to display if it contains ethanol or not on pumps.You could get straight 87 octane one week or a e-blend the next week depending on market.Sometimes straight 87 is cheaper than blended,and is allowed to be sold in c-stores.It's a screwed up mess and I deal with this weekly.I run the marine sta-bil in my boat just to be safe,and have yet to have a problem in the boat,chainsaw,weed wacker or whatever. |
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Posts: 189
| I stabilized the my gas tank at the beginning of November. I was getting ready to use the boat and decided to install a fuel water separator to solve the water absorption issues. When I called to the deal to see if they had the one I needed he said mercury issued a bulletin not to let ethanol gas sit more than 90 days stabilized or not , because of the water issue and the separation issues. He said pump it out and leave tanks empty at the end of the season. So I pumped it out and put the gas in my truck. I would rather run it in my truck, than to mess with ruining my 4 stroke. The truck is under warranty the boat motor is not.
Pump it out it only take a couple minutes. Just set the tank you are pulling it into lower than your tank and it siphons itself.
My two cents
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Posts: 572
| Ethanol....why can't we get rid of it? I wonder if St Louis has a waiver again this year? last year they did....see below...
"Kansas City Ozone Exemption Sought Date: April 1, 2008
With ozone season beginning Tuesday, Kansas City officials say they need to know soon whether Missouri Governor Matt Blunt will issue a waiver on the use of a new ethanol blend gas. A new Missouri law requires the ethanol blend -- called E10 -- to be used at most of the state's gasoline pumps. The fuel is seen as a way to reduce dependence on foreign oil, but it also creates more smog. Kansas City officials say they need a waiver from the law because the city already violates the Clean Air law during the summer, when ozone is worse. The Missouri governor has issued a waiver for St. Louis, but so far has not done the same for Kansas City. Blunt spokeswoman Nancy Gonder says the governor is considering the request."
Why is smog good any where? Isn't that why the car industry have set standards????
I've read recent articles where there is a push to up the percentage to 15%. That's 50% higher ethanol than today.
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Posts: 412
Location: Waukesha, WI | I thought this was interesting:
http://capwiz.com/nmma/issues/alert/?alertid=13199386 |
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Posts: 1185
Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | I don't get why gas stations don't offer non-ethanol gas....they certainly don't need 3 different grades....make the mid grade 100% pure gas and advertise it....most of us would pay the extra money for it...seems so simple to me that it's stupid. |
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Location: MN | Anyone know if the gas at BP and Holiday stations in MN Twin Cities have ethanol? I run an old Evinrude 2-stroke VRO from 1990, and last year the engine would occasionally die after I started it and kicked it into gear... this would occur throughout the day. I have been using 91 octane gas from the local BP and Holiday stations in the Lake Minnetonka area, always wondered if there was something funny with the gas which was causing this problem. I know the BP station markets their gas with "invigorate" in it. This was my first summer with this engine, so no prior experience to compare performance. |
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Posts: 531
Location: Hugo, MN | Almost every station store in the Twin Cities is selling ethanol mix. You'll have to do a search for gas stations that sell non-ethanol gasoline. I know there's one in Lake Elmo and a few more around town, but it's hard to find one when you need it. As far as the four strokes being ok with the ethanol, that's not exactly true. In fact, the four strokes are more prone to the effects since they use fuel injectors which will plug easily when the ethanol starts to break down in storage. I had a buddy just spend four hundred bucks getting his injectors cleaned on a 60 horse Yammie Four Stroke. He had bought the boat in December from a guy who said he hadn't used the boat much that last year. I'm thinking not much meant not at all. The next spring he goes to run it and it won't fire much over idle. We tried running Sea Foam directly into the fuel line at the motor, then letting it soak, but it made little difference. The injectors had to be removed and soaked in some heavy duty stuff, then blown out until they sprayed properly. Quite a mess and it should have never happened. Now he's only running the non-ethanol stuff and hasn't had any problems since. |
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Posts: 132
Location: MN | When I had my motor rebuilt last year, the shop said to try to do anything possible to run non-oxy gas (no ethanol). It is tough to find, but in south TC metro, you can get it at Fleet Farm in Lakeville and a station near corner of 42 and Galaxy in Apple Valley. |
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Posts: 3469
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Mak...
What size motor are you running? I had the same issue with a 2 stroke 50hp Johnson and found the timing was off. It would stay running in neutral, but would quit as soon as I put it in gear. Adjusted the timing and it never missed a beat.
Steve |
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Posts: 148
Location: Northwest Wi. | I try to buy gas at stations that are located in high motor recreation areas,( Isle Mn./Hayward Wi. Ect.) they will most likley have the non-oxy premium and they sell a higher volume of it. I put 100% gas in anything that I dont drive or ride daily just not to have to deal with the water. Ethanol will "pull" water from the air into the gas. Also keep the tank full to avoid condensation. |
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Posts: 1887
Location: syracuse indiana | man i dont think there are any gas stations here around this part of indiana that dont have ethanol in it... how can i check(wester lake area...bill |
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Posts: 656
Location: Forest Lake, Mn. | I have a 2005, 90 Yamaha 4 stroke and a 15 Yamaha 4 stroke kicker. I also live in Mn. The 90 is direct injected.
I use Seafoam in every tank of gas. I also have a fuel-water seperator filter in the boat. I didn't properly winterize my rig last year. Paid the price. Had to have the carbs on the kicker rebuilt this year. It won't happen again.
Other than that, I haven't had a problem with either motor due to ethanol gas. My owners manual for both motors state that up to 10% ethanol is ok for use. As long as you use something like Seafoam or Stabil and add a fuel-water filter. I don't think you'd have much problems.
After all, if ethanol was causing major engine damage to a large number of newer motors the motor companies would be screaming due to the warrenty repairs they'd have to make. or dealing with the PR nightmare they'd endure because of it. Nobody would buy their motors. It's cheaper in the long run to build a motor that will run on ethanol in my opinion.
I had a 92, Merc 40 horse 2-stroke. I had lots of issues with that motor and ethanol gas. Ended up with a cracked block. It's to long of a story to post.
Edited by fishpoop 6/10/2009 3:02 AM
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Posts: 360
Location: Tinley Park. Fish Cen IL. Bass & Vilas Cty.Muskie | I think I will buy a Siphon hose and transfer some gas out of my boat into my truck too.
Edited by basscaster 6/10/2009 7:51 AM
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Posts: 572
| Be sure to use "Marine Stabil". It is suppose to be much better than the orginal Stabil. At least, they advertise it better.
If I read the instructions correctly, Marine Stabil recommends 1 oz to every 10 gallons. (double it for fuel clean up?). Seafoam recommends 2 oz to every 1 gallon. Sounds like Marine Stabil may be more cost effective for a fuel additive.
I think I will run Marine Stabil during the summer and switch to Seafoam just to prior storing over winter and using at the start of next season. Wondering what others do? |
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Posts: 333
Location: menasha wi 54952 | In the Appleton WI area you can find 100% no ethanol gas at many stations. It is always high grade 91 octane and will be marked that way at the pump. I have a 98 Johnson 150 FICHT. I run marine stabil and carbon guard per the manufacturer in every tank. Keep it in the boat and add to the gas whenever you fill up. Last year I went through 320+ gallons. Works for me!
MR |
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Location: MN | VMS - Steve
I am running a 60 HP. 1990 Evinrude VRO; I am going to have someone look at it this summer if it continues. |
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Posts: 289
Location: Minneapolis | muskyjim - 6/9/2009 8:28 AM
When I had my motor rebuilt last year, the shop said to try to do anything possible to run non-oxy gas (no ethanol). It is tough to find, but in south TC metro, you can get it at Fleet Farm in Lakeville and a station near corner of 42 and Galaxy in Apple Valley.
Two more Metro places I know carry non-oxy premium:
1. The gas dock at the Gray's Bay public landing on Minnetonka. It's a bit expensive but super-covenient if you're launching there anywa.
2. The gas station (can't remember the name) at the corner of 54th and Chicago in south Minneapolis. I use it often. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | There's non-ox gas at the gas station at HWY 7 and Christmas Lake Road (a couple blocks from Maynards). |
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Posts: 291
Location: Madison, WI | Anyone have success with Mercury's Quickcleen addititive? |
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Posts: 253
Location: On the water | I use Mercury Quickcleen with every fillup and also add regular stabil and have no problems. I have a 1998 25 horse Mercury 2 stroke. I leave the gas w/ethanol in the tank and engine all winter and in spring it starts right up. |
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Posts: 156
| The other side of the coin is that if you try to always run straight gas, and then you get somewhere only E10 is avaible you'll have no choice but to run the E10. Trouble with that being that E10 has more solvent qualities than straight gas and any sludge or gum stuck to the tank, lines, or whatever breaks loose and plugs your jets or injectors and the engine burns down. I'm a lot more familiar with sleds than boats, but most of the E10 burn down stories I've heard have been from people in states right after the switch to E10. |
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Posts: 412
Location: Waukesha, WI | PredLuR - 6/12/2009 7:13 AM
Anyone have success with Mercury's Quickcleen addititive?
I will start to use Quickleen as recommended by my mechanic over Merc's fuel stabilizer for my Verado 150. He told me that towards the end of the season to use the stabilizer. |
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Posts: 271
Location: davis,IL | I should have noted in my earlier post that the "ethanol Problem" is that some fuel that has been tested from various dealers has had in excess of 10% ethanol. Some have had 20 - 30% by volume, this is a killer for engines not designed for it. If you check around with some of the outboard mechanics you will find that this has damaged a number of old as well as new outboards. So buyer beware, be carefull where you buy fuel. I have been told that the midgrade brand name fuels are generally considered the best bet. |
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