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Muskie Fishing -> Tackle and Equipment -> Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve
 
Message Subject: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve
R Findlan
Posted 2/8/2009 6:31 PM (#359650)
Subject: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve




Posts: 27


I am going to start making my own fluorocarbon leaders with 130lb, 150lb, or 180lb seaguar using a nail knot, crimp, and glue. My first question is where can I get the right crimp and how do I pick the correct size for the diameter of fluorocarbon 130lb/1.17mm, 150lb/1.26mm, or 180lb/1.38mm? My second question is which crimpping pliers work best and where can i purchase them? My final question, is there a specific type of glue to use to seal the knot? Not sure if any type is corrosive to the fluorocarbon. Thanks for you help.

Reed Findlan
JimtenHaaf
Posted 2/8/2009 7:13 PM (#359657 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve





Posts: 709


Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Not sure about the crimps, as I don't crimp any. As far as glue goes, any standard type of super-glue works just fine, and is not harmful to the flouro. If you are not sure, a test will never hurt. Just cut off a 1or2" piece, put some of the glue on it, and see what happens in the next few hours.
Esoxonthefly421
Posted 2/8/2009 7:37 PM (#359663 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve




Posts: 291


Location: SW MI
You'll have to get double barrel sleeves from Stamina to do fluoro that large. Check their site and they'll have the diameter so you can get the best one that works for you.
ToddM
Posted 2/8/2009 8:45 PM (#359676 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve





Posts: 9625


Location: oswego, il
This is the style pliers you need for double barrel crimps. Most tackle and terminal tackle suppliers carry them:
http://www.muskyshop.com/modules/cart/products.php/nav_id/28/page/1...
luckymusky
Posted 2/9/2009 1:05 PM (#359783 - in reply to #359676)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve




Posts: 615


Location: cleveland ohio
yes that is the correct tool to get. check out leadertec.com for explanations of different crimpers and crimping techniques. i learned those techs. and have not had a fail yet.
curleytail
Posted 2/9/2009 3:08 PM (#359801 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve




Posts: 2008


Location: Hayward, WI
Regarding the sleeve size, just find the size in mm of the line (looks like you've done that), and then search the net for leader sleeves. If you look at a few sites many of them will list the sleeve size, and that the maximum diameter line that will work with those crimps/sleeves.

You want to pick the smallest sleeve possible that the line will slide into. Also make sure you get the double barrel sleeves, and the proper swager (crimper) like the one shown in the link. You need one that has cup to cup jaws like this (), and not point to cup like criming pliers for wiring are. That leadertech link will explain a lot of this stuff.

curleytail
R Findlan
Posted 2/9/2009 3:17 PM (#359802 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve




Posts: 27


Thanks for the input guys, this is really helping.
Reed
Mike Hulbert
Posted 2/9/2009 8:40 PM (#359848 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve


Or you could just get a Stealth Tackle Leader and you won't have to worry about anything.

MIKE HULBERT
JimtenHaaf
Posted 2/9/2009 8:45 PM (#359849 - in reply to #359848)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve





Posts: 709


Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Mike Hulbert - 2/9/2009 9:40 PM

Or you could just get a Stealth Tackle Leader and you won't have to worry about anything.

MIKE HULBERT


I would, if all I had to do was say this, and I get them for free too.
R Findlan
Posted 2/9/2009 8:48 PM (#359850 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve




Posts: 27


That is also a good point Mike, which i am also considering. Have you had much experience with the Stealth trolling leaders? Do you ever have any signs of wear where the swivel or snap attach after longer periods of trolling larger lures like Jakes, Plows, Hookers?
Thanks,
Reed
Mike Hulbert
Posted 2/9/2009 8:50 PM (#359851 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve


I don't troll, so sorry, but I do know that he sells a TON of them out east and there are zero issues what so ever. You simply can't go wrong with Stealth Leaders.

HULBERT
jackpot bay
Posted 2/10/2009 9:33 AM (#359924 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve


It will save you money over the long run by making your own. Stealth leaders work just fine but it is nice to make your own. Trolling leaders are just a longer version of a casting leader. 3'. Not too hard to make or figure out.
the crimper is about the biggest expense. Fluoro, crimps etc are cheap.
I would not recommend trying to tie 150 or 180. A double barrel crimp with mushroomed tag ends pulled tight will not fail.
Been making (and selling a few) of my own for 5 yrs.
curleytail
Posted 2/10/2009 10:02 AM (#359927 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve




Posts: 2008


Location: Hayward, WI
Jackpot, why don't you recommend tieing 150 pound fluoro? I just started making some fluoro leaders and I tied up some 150 lb Seaguar. It seemed to tighten up just fine, and wasn't too hard to tie. I think the knot I tied is the nail knot. Here's a link to the one I tied: http://www.thenextbitetv.com/images/site_images/lees_leader_knot.pd... I also plan on crimping them just for added measure.

curleytail

Edited by curleytail 2/10/2009 10:03 AM
jb
Posted 2/10/2009 10:55 AM (#359933 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve


I guess if you find a good knot and want to tie, go for it. I think you will find 180 to be too stiff.
IMO I don't think it's needed, I have tested 150 and 180 with just a crimp and they have held unbelievably well with my weight into them.
MikeHulbert
Posted 2/10/2009 12:13 PM (#359946 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve





Posts: 2408


Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana
I would never trust a crimp alone. The knot is the muscle behind the leader. The crimp is pretty much on Stealth Leaders to clean up the tag end.

If you want 150-180 pound SEAGUAR leaders that are tied correctly, then again, I would highly suggest just giving John with Stealth Tackle a call.

Edited by MikeHulbert 2/10/2009 1:17 PM
bn
Posted 2/10/2009 2:52 PM (#359973 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve


Mike,
I have used 180 lb fluoro, crimped only, for 5+ yrs, with plenty of my friends and other people using them bought from me. something like 600 or more fish on them to 40+ lbers. guess what, zero failures.
crimping when done correctly with the right sleeves and crimping tool is just as strong as tying..I have put my weight into them hanging from a nail in the garage...I doubt you will catch a musky as heavy as me....
to say that crimping should not be trusted is just another one of your closed minded statements...sort of like, there are no fish on that rock bar. comical.
I understand you want to push Bette's product but c'mon. you simply don't know what you are talking about w/ regards to crimping 180. imo.
TJ DeVoe
Posted 2/10/2009 2:58 PM (#359975 - in reply to #359973)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve




Posts: 2381


Location: Stevens Point, WI
Couldn't agree more BN!
IAJustin
Posted 2/10/2009 3:32 PM (#359989 - in reply to #359975)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve





Posts: 1299


Add another 200+ over last 5 for me as well (on 100 and 130 lbs) - If properly crimped you will have NO issue......Oh, and its $2.50 per leader to make your own.

Edited by IAJustin 2/10/2009 3:50 PM
muskihntr
Posted 2/10/2009 3:45 PM (#359994 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve




Posts: 2006


Location: lansing, il
i knew the fish numbers were gonna get thrown on the table at some point haahhha. :-)

payin your taxes on them sales brad, woops i mean jackpotbay?

i could also argue that there is nothing wrong with knotting 150 or 180. i can get a good clean knot up to 200#. i have guys using them who boat a ton of fish as well. bottom line is use what your comfortable with and leave it at that. if your comfortable with a certain style or brand then use it. if your comfortable making your own, then make them.

thanks for the support mike and others !!!!! it goes a long way!
tutorial
Posted 2/10/2009 4:09 PM (#359998 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve


a great tutorial on the subject ...

http://www.ofncommunity.com/forums/index.php?automodule=blog&blogid...
Esoxonthefly421
Posted 2/10/2009 4:22 PM (#360000 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve




Posts: 291


Location: SW MI
The only two muskies that I've caught were on leader that I made. I use 130# with Lee Tauchen's knot and a couble barrel crimp. I figure if knot and crimps are good on their own, why not use both? Heck, I might even start gluing them too.
IAJustin
Posted 2/10/2009 4:28 PM (#360002 - in reply to #360000)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve





Posts: 1299


Esoxonthefly421 - 2/10/2009 4:22 PM

The only two muskies that I've caught were on leader that I made. I use 130# with Lee Tauchen's knot and a couble barrel crimp. I figure if knot and crimps are good on their own, why not use both? Heck, I might even start gluing them too.




right!!! and if one crimp is good why not use 3 crimps + 4 knots??? A single crimp will retain 95-99% of leader test - the same as a knot + crimp.
Hooper
Posted 2/10/2009 5:42 PM (#360014 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve


Is their really that much savings in making your own?

I agree that if you were able to buy 18" of Flouro, one snap, one ball bearing swivel and a set of double crimps, a savings could be had.

But now factor in not having and needing to buy a Fas-tie and crimper. So in your effort to save a few bucks, you now have purchased tools and supplies that would be enough for making 25 leaders. So now you have a supply of leaders that will last you for the next several years, unless you are on the water 150 days a year, or you are now selling them.

If you are selling them, you will find yourself spending a ton of time in your basement tying leaders to undercut the market. The "legit" market that has a tax ID, donates to clubs, outings and works shows.

If it's part of the fishing addiction and your have sharpened all of your hooks and in need of filling your time, God Bless. If your goal is to undercut the market, best of luck. I think you will pretty quickly come to the realization that tying leaders is far from glamourous. In order to make it worth your while, you will rarely if ever find yourself ahead by any significant money. When you are only looking to make $1-2 per, you'll have more money tied up in inventory and purchasing more supplies that you will never actually be "up" money. To achieve any true economies of scale, you must buy in bulk. In order to save when buying in bulk, you need a tax ID to pay wholesale, or you are simply paying retail and not saving much.

In any event, if its making leaders to sell, do yourself and the other "QUALITY" leader makers a favor and make a quality product. The flouro market has a lot of eyes on it and people waiting to cry foul for leader failures. Tie good ones, or none at all.
JimtenHaaf
Posted 2/10/2009 6:12 PM (#360019 - in reply to #360014)
Subject: RE: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve





Posts: 709


Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Hooper - 2/10/2009 6:42 PM

So now you have a supply of leaders that will last you for the next several years, unless you are on the water 150 days a year.



What???!!! Only 150? I couldn't DREAM of only being on the water 150 days! LOL!! I do save money making my own. I did the math, and I save. Plus, I enjoy doing it. I don't do it to "screw over" the leader makers, I do it for enjoyment.
kap
Posted 2/11/2009 9:14 PM (#360206 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve




Posts: 227


Location: deephaven mn
another yes crimps work just fine. but i do believe you need to mushroom the tag end with a lighter. when crimped and
mushroomed correctly 100 lb test braid will break at the knot before the crimp gives way. based on pull tests.
another reason to tie your own is leader length( i prefer mine to be a 15").
knots seem to snag more milfoil also
Steve Jonesi
Posted 2/11/2009 9:22 PM (#360212 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve




Posts: 2104


WTF!! I spent 15 minutes last evening typing a very insightful response and ......the thread got frozen. Now it's unfrozen. What gives???
JimtenHaaf
Posted 2/11/2009 9:40 PM (#360217 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve





Posts: 709


Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Alright, Steve... I'm all ears (eyes). Let's have it!
lambeau
Posted 2/11/2009 10:03 PM (#360224 - in reply to #360212)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve


WTF!! I spent 15 minutes last evening typing a very insightful response and the thread got frozen. Now it's unfrozen. What gives???

lol...sometimes a timeout gives the Superego time to kick in and get some rather poorly managed Id's under control.

Landry
Posted 2/11/2009 10:06 PM (#360226 - in reply to #360217)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve




Posts: 565


Feel free to pick on this idea but I simply tied two loop-style knots at each end and then put a glob of 5 minute epoxy over the knots and tags. I have never had one fail and the epoxy makes a nice, clear, smooth and weedless mini ball over the knot and tag. ( I have never hooked a muskie over 46" on these leaders though - so use at your own risk).
Esoxonthefly421
Posted 2/12/2009 6:24 AM (#360241 - in reply to #359650)
Subject: Re: Fluorocarbon leader crimp/sleeve




Posts: 291


Location: SW MI
I think in the end as long as you're using muskie appropriate components, whichever way you finish you leaders is completely up to you as long as you're confident that it will safely handle a muskie. I prefer a knot and crimp on mine, I like redundency.
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