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Posts: 1209
| Well if you can't learn what is shown to be on guides are less helpful, now if you can absorb everything as it comes from location to lure, color speed depth, time of day guides are more valuable most of our wife's out with a guide? Expensive day on the water, me, and many of you, a budget minded approach given the vast amount of knowledge we will gain in a day be a year or two |
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Posts: 1126
Location: Minnesota. | Fishysam - 4/1/2018 8:55 PM
Well if you can't learn what is shown to be on guides are less helpful, now if you can absorb everything as it comes from location to lure, color speed depth, time of day guides are more valuable most of our wife's out with a guide? Expensive day on the water, me, and many of you, a budget minded approach given the vast amount of knowledge we will gain in a day be a year or two
Sam...you wanna clarify this please???? I can read but... |
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Location: Contrarian Island | as others have said, do your research and also set your expectations before the trip. When I first started fishing Madison more in the late 90s I hired Lee Tauchen a day. It was worth it as he showed me some key areas and presentations for the time of year we went out. To me a good guide will shorten your learning curve on the body of water you want to learn. If you are simply hiring a guide to catch A fish or a few fish that to me is a waste of money..but if you are hiring a guide to learn more about the body of water you are fishing, have them show you some key areas and spots, that is worth it... I've only hired 2 or 3 in my life, one big name guide on Green Bay was a joke... the stuff he said to us all day still makes me chuckle... my buddy had hired him and I went along.. it is pretty funny that literally anyone with a truck and boat can call themselves a guide...so take the word guide with a grain of salt ...
Edited by BNelson 4/2/2018 8:48 AM
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Posts: 441
| When I first retired nine years ago, up on Vermilion, I hired Matt Snyder. A couple years later, I hired Luke Ronnestrand. It was the best investments I made, when it comes to fishing! I was used to fishing Wisconsin and Indiana's smaller weedy lakes. I got on Vermilion and was shocked at the size of the lake. Where do you start?
Fishing with Matt and Luke, opened up a new way of fishing for muskies. I learned more in those two trips, than I would have learned in years, by myself! Not to mention, getting to know two great guys! Both guys are the best, at what they do, and are fun to fish with! I would probably be still struggling, if it weren't for hiring those two!
So hire a guide, if you don't know the lake! |
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Posts: 1220
| I once needed some kind of idea where to fish on a huge body of water having no clue and a big desire to see fish over the next couple of days. I took a top local guide for a half day in my boat, no rods, no baits, just drove around all morning marking spots and jotting notes on my paper map. Without taking time to fish, I maximized that trip to great effect. Other times, like having a chance to fish LOTW with Bill Sandy, all I wanted was a day with Bill Sandy, just to watch his boat control, see his famous figure eight, just hear any darn thing he might say. It’s about knowing what the heck you’re hiring the guide for. And, don’t forget the tip, they all have a long winter. |
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Posts: 452
| Fishing new destinations? Yes
Having a hard time on a body of water? Maybe
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Posts: 815
Location: Waukee, IA | To me? Absolutely not.
To you? That's a question you need to ask yourself.
I don't muskie fish as a numbers game. I enjoy the patterning, searching, and fishing just as much as the catching, so to me a guide is useless. No disrespect, guides serve a purpose, just not to me. |
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Posts: 1000
| A good guide will shave a decade off the learning curve. Josh Borovsky's master the metro package over a season on Tonka is hands down the best money I've ever spent fishing. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Ya, maybe, but not for me
the whole purpose of fishing is solving the puzzle
I do on occasion fish with friends that guide some times their boat sometimes mine but feel I add every bit as much to the puzzle. I feel I learn the most when alone and can explore different ideas and not compete with the other end of the boat.
One thing I think would be interesting is watching a guide who has never fished water I know well to see how they approach things.
Edited by horsehunter 4/2/2018 12:35 PM
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Posts: 238
| I have only hired 2 guides Steve Herbeck on Eagle and Jeff Hanson in Madison. I try and hire them every year because bites change from year to year and fish seam to move around. Both have done a great job with getting me and my dad on fish and teaching us a ton every time. I wouldn't hesitate to hire a guide just get one with a good reputation and you will be fine. |
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Posts: 101
Location: Niagara on the Lake, ON | Herbeck is one of the best guides (if not the best) Ive ever been in a boat with. Well, well worth the money. |
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Posts: 112
Location: Illinois | I have hired quite a few guides. Always to learn. To learn presentations,spots,ideas about certain situations and overall more knowledge. I do like it when they ask first if we mind if they cast. I always say yes anyways I just believe it’s just good manners for them to ask first. I want to see fish caught. I especially like to have it happen to me lol but I don’t care if it’s the guide. I’ve had plenty ask if they hook one if we wanted to take the rod...uhhh heck No! You hook it it’s your fish! But again very nice to have that option. The only time I ever took a guide up on that was when I took my 12 year old son out,whom he never had hooked a Muskie (nor anything bigger than bass as far as that goes). The guide hooked a small 28-30” fish and handed the rod to my son. It was nice to see him smile and “catch” his first ski.
Guides have never really produced fish for me on that particular day(a couple of times but very few in grand scheme of things), but they made me a better fisherman and lead me to my own fish in my own boat. Well worth it imo. |
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Posts: 32786
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I used to guide full time in Vilas, Langlade, and Oneida. I truly enjoyed clients who were willing to listen and learn, and adjusted the day's activities when presented with clients who were not. The same rules apply as in today's social media management; educate, engage, and entertain while keeping everyone as comfortable as is possible. If it's obvious one of those requirements is less important to a client, focus on the others. The folks who hired me wanted a plethora of things to happen. Knowing what was the key to a good day.
Qualify your proposed guide first. Then communicate and enjoy the day.
Do you 'need' a guide? That is a question only you can answer.
I made some lifelong friends in the process and miss guiding once in a while. Maybe when I enter into a more serious form of semi-retirement, I'll get back into the trade a couple days a week.
Maybe mostly for giant crappies. Panfish anglers tend to be less intense and more willing to absorb. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | horsehunter - 4/2/2018 1:30 PM
Ya, maybe, but not for me
the whole purpose of fishing is solving the puzzle
I do on occasion fish with friends that guide some times their boat sometimes mine but feel I add every bit as much to the puzzle. I feel I learn the most when alone and can explore different ideas and not compete with the other end of the boat.
One thing I think would be interesting is watching a guide who has never fished water I know well to see how they approach things.
When I was raising a family and paying a mortgage I couldn't afford a guide, now that I can I don't feel the need . Over the years I had opportunity to learn from and fish with many good musky anglers. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Brian Hoffies - 3/31/2018 10:17 PM Jeremy - 3/31/2018 8:55 PM A guides not gonna spend all day just running you around in the boat and talking... So, I should pay for his day of fishing? Absolutely not. You're renting a boat and knowledge for the day. If they're fishing they better be explaining the how/why of the presentation on every bait they throw. If they seem more interested in fishing than teaching they're doing it wrong. That said, some people just want to catch fish and could care less about learning anything more than they need to catch a fish that day.
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Posts: 50
| I think it depends on the guide and what you are trying to accomplish. I've been fishing with two different guides and had two different experiences. One sort of positive and the other not positive. The other guide that I know, which I haven't been out with, would be a great experience overall.
The first guide trip was with a well know Hayward area guide. I requested to fish a specific lake which my parents own a cabin on in order to learn the lake better. I knew the guide fished it frequently because I'd watch him to see how he fished it. He told me he wouldn't fish the requested lake because his job is to put clients on fish so he fishes the conditions, not the lake (although it felt like he didn't wait to show us how to fish the lake). He also wouldn't provide specific info about the lake while we fished that day. Although disappointed by that, we did fish with him on another lake and caught 2 fish. He did provide a lot of information and knowledge about fishing so we learned a lot. We caught a couple fish. Overall it was a positive experience.
The other experience was in Canada on Eagle Lake. We hired a guide from the resort we were staying at (no we weren't at AML or Northshore). The guide was multi-species and we went out for an evening of musky fishing. He fished out of the front of the boat and gave us very little information about fishing and didn't pass over the "hot" bait that he saw 5 of the 7 raised fish. It basically felt like we were along for the ride so he could get paid to fish. Overall experience was fair/negative.
I guess the moral is, if you do hire a guide, we specific with what you are looking for and clarify expectations with the guide. The recommends always seem good on this site, but continue to do you own research so you get what you are looking for. |
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Posts: 8717
| Jeremy - 3/31/2018 8:55 PM
A guides not gonna spend all day just running you around in the boat and talking...
Some do. Some will actually explain what you're fishing, how it's effected by current and wind, why you're fishing it today and under what conditions they'd probably drive past it, all the while running the boat and watching everything you do to offer you tips and suggestions on how to improve your casting, figure 8's, how you're working your lures, etc.
We've had many guides just put the rod down and run the boat.
Personally, I'd rather have them fishing. Why not? It's easier to establish a pattern with one more bait in the water. And if they're in the back? - third bait through, whatever they catch is a fish you already missed anyway. |
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Posts: 36
Location: Honor, MI | My first guide trip was with Hall of Fame guide, Louie St. Jermaine (I was 13) when my uncle who owned the bait/tackle/gift shop in Lac du Flambeau, WI, asked Louie to take me fishing. Since that time (over 60 years of fishing) I have come to have certain expectations when hiring a "guide." As for as I'm concerned, the guide's first and foremost job is to put me on fish, not for me to pay HIM to fish, period. My only exception is when we're trolling so as to put more lines out. However, when any rod goes off the fish is MINE. I may be a cheap old man but I've been around the block (several times) and it is what it is |
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Posts: 1405
Location: Detroit River | I guess that depends on who and where you are fishing. On LSC there are a couple of guides I know of that were shore fishermen most of there lives then they got a boat & became guides soon after & somehow they are now considered "Experts" or "Pros" because they can catch a musky in LSC. |
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Posts: 32786
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Zib - 4/17/2018 11:33 AM
I guess that depends on who and where you are fishing. On LSC there are a couple of guides I know of that were shore fishermen most of there lives then they got a boat & became guides soon after & somehow they are now considered "Experts" or "Pros" because they can catch a musky in LSC.
So...someone should not hire a guide because there are a couple somewhere someone feels are not top shelf?
Hire an accomplished name in the business, and yes, guides are worth hiring for all the reasons mentioned above. |
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Posts: 306
| Just remember, if you boat a trophy fish on a guided trip you only get half credit for it! |
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Posts: 176
| My answers would be Yes they are definitely worth hiring. Let them know your goals ahead of time.
2nd answer is if I want the guide to fish. MOST DEFINATELY! I want to learn, I want to see how they work a lure, how they themselves react to the weather, how they cast to a spot, their jerk bait cadence, their retrieve speed, how they work a figure 8, their boat control and positioning, how they watch their lure come back, when they change their lure and see if I saw anything that told me without words why they did change, how they set the hook, how they guide a fish to the net, and so much more. I think the big things are easy to learn, it's the subtle things that need to be watched and experienced that often can't be articulated. I think it's the subtle things that distinguish a good fisherman from a great fisherman!
I'd feel jipped if he didn't fish, I'd feel like I only got 1/3rd of the experience if they just told stories and drove the boat around. I've learned far more by watching and experiencing than just listening to a seminar and following the spots you could get on a marked map. Don't get me wrong, there are some guys I'd sit in the boat with just to listen to their stories and laugh with, but that can be done on shore at a bar or seminar as well.
Nomad
Edited by Nomadmusky 4/17/2018 12:16 PM
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Posts: 20179
Location: oswego, il | Booch - 4/17/2018 12:02 PM
Just remember, if you boat a trophy fish on a guided trip you only get half credit for it!
Which half? What if it was caught trolling in a guide's boat? We need a credit catch chart so one can understand their place in taking credit for a caught fish. |
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Posts: 8717
| We need a point system:
Fish caught: 1 point
Fish caught casting: add 1 point
Fish caught on your own gear: add 1 point
Fish caught using lure you selected: add 1 point
Fish caught on figure 8: add 1 point
Fish caught in area/on spot you suggested: add 1 point
Fish caught after making a "perfect" cast: add 1 point
45" and over: add 1 point
48" and over: add 2 points
50" and over: add 3 points |
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Location: Contrarian Island | so you haven't hit that 3 pointer yet EA???!!  |
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Posts: 1516
| Where do you turn in your points and credits? who is keeping score? |
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Posts: 20179
Location: oswego, il | I have a 9 out of a possible 10 then. Thank you Musky Commissioner EA! |
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Posts: 8717
| Pepper - 4/17/2018 1:28 PM
Where do you turn in your points and credits? who is keeping score?
Nelson Apparently! |
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Location: Contrarian Island | you must be hiring the wrong guides EA !
Edited by BNelson 4/17/2018 1:59 PM
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Hiring a guide CAN be valuable....it can also be a giant waste of money equivalent to playing the lotto at $400-600 bucks for 1 day of fishing. I’ve seen both over the years |
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