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Muskie Fishing -> General Discussion -> Wayzata bait and tackle
 
Message Subject: Wayzata bait and tackle
Junkman
Posted 3/29/2018 7:50 AM (#900462 - in reply to #900166)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle




Posts: 1220


I don’t think I need to provide proof of musky loyalty to anyone here, and have argued with several of Minnesota’s musky haters on sites No longer even seen on the net. But, honestly, this thread makes me uncomfortable. It’s too tribal for me. Some guy says something we don’t agree with, and we won’t shop in his store. Maybe we should take our kids out of his kids School? Maybe chase his family out of town. Then the Coke CEO says something and I have to drink Pepsi. Well, I don’t like Pepsi. And, I don’t like Wendy’s. Gee, I just don’t need to know who you voted for or what is the maximum magazine size you approve of in order to buy a bobber. I would go to the guys store, buy something, and spend some time explaining how uncomfortable I am with his position, maybe suggest that it might make it less likely I’d return. In other words, attempt a conversion, avoid a confrontation.
jonnysled
Posted 3/29/2018 7:55 AM (#900464 - in reply to #900462)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
Junkman - 3/29/2018 7:50 AM

I don’t think I need to provide proof of musky loyalty to anyone here, and have argued with several of Minnesota’s musky haters on sites No longer even seen on the net. But, honestly, this thread makes me uncomfortable. It’s too tribal for me. Some guy says something we don’t agree with, and we won’t shop in his store. Maybe we should take our kids out of his kids School? Maybe chase his family out of town. Then the Coke CEO says something and I have to drink Pepsi. Well, I don’t like Pepsi. And, I don’t like Wendy’s. Gee, I just don’t need to know who you voted for or what is the maximum magazine size you approve of in order to buy a bobber. I would go to the guys store, buy something, and spend some time explaining how uncomfortable I am with his position, maybe suggest that it might make it less likely I’d return. In other words, attempt a conversion, avoid a confrontation.


that would require thought and tact ...
Pepper
Posted 3/29/2018 8:02 AM (#900466 - in reply to #900166)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle




Posts: 1516


I didn't see anyone suggestion torches and pitchforks or a million musky man march. I kinda question why the owner would feel strongly enough to take his stance of the TV news. But it's his opinion and if others feel a boycott is needed than that is their right.
Sudszee
Posted 3/29/2018 8:14 AM (#900468 - in reply to #900462)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle




Posts: 152


Junkman - 3/29/2018 7:50 AM

I don’t think I need to provide proof of musky loyalty to anyone here, and have argued with several of Minnesota’s musky haters on sites No longer even seen on the net. But, honestly, this thread makes me uncomfortable. It’s too tribal for me. Some guy says something we don’t agree with, and we won’t shop in his store. Maybe we should take our kids out of his kids School? Maybe chase his family out of town. Then the Coke CEO says something and I have to drink Pepsi. Well, I don’t like Pepsi. And, I don’t like Wendy’s. Gee, I just don’t need to know who you voted for or what is the maximum magazine size you approve of in order to buy a bobber. I would go to the guys store, buy something, and spend some time explaining how uncomfortable I am with his position, maybe suggest that it might make it less likely I’d return. In other words, attempt a conversion, avoid a confrontation.


Happens everywhere these days. Picking sides is the direction the world is going. Pretty sad. It's also my choice to not shop at the establishment.
jonnysled
Posted 3/29/2018 8:27 AM (#900470 - in reply to #900468)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
my point is to do things in a way in which you don't represent what the opposition is defining in you or your position. stand above it and stick to the facts without getting into the gutter or becoming the mob. be attractive to those who aren't understanding but have a say with their votes. unfortunately in some things it's not about right or wrong but what is more appealing and don't match drama with drama.
Smell_Esox
Posted 3/29/2018 8:28 AM (#900473 - in reply to #900462)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle




Posts: 267


Junkman - 3/29/2018 7:50 AM

I don’t think I need to provide proof of musky loyalty to anyone here, and have argued with several of Minnesota’s musky haters on sites No longer even seen on the net. But, honestly, this thread makes me uncomfortable. It’s too tribal for me. Some guy says something we don’t agree with, and we won’t shop in his store. Maybe we should take our kids out of his kids School? Maybe chase his family out of town. Then the Coke CEO says something and I have to drink Pepsi. Well, I don’t like Pepsi. And, I don’t like Wendy’s. Gee, I just don’t need to know who you voted for or what is the maximum magazine size you approve of in order to buy a bobber. I would go to the guys store, buy something, and spend some time explaining how uncomfortable I am with his position, maybe suggest that it might make it less likely I’d return. In other words, attempt a conversion, avoid a confrontation.
My thought is that he already knows that he is making a lot of muskie customers uncomfortable and he's ok with that. If he doesn't know he is offending a bunch of potential customers, he's not very smart.
Conservation Guy
Posted 3/29/2018 9:14 AM (#900478 - in reply to #900462)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle




Posts: 107


Junkman - 3/29/2018 7:50 AM

I don’t think I need to provide proof of musky loyalty to anyone here, and have argued with several of Minnesota’s musky haters on sites No longer even seen on the net. But, honestly, this thread makes me uncomfortable. It’s too tribal for me. Some guy says something we don’t agree with, and we won’t shop in his store. Maybe we should take our kids out of his kids School? Maybe chase his family out of town. Then the Coke CEO says something and I have to drink Pepsi. Well, I don’t like Pepsi. And, I don’t like Wendy’s. Gee, I just don’t need to know who you voted for or what is the maximum magazine size you approve of in order to buy a bobber. I would go to the guys store, buy something, and spend some time explaining how uncomfortable I am with his position, maybe suggest that it might make it less likely I’d return. In other words, attempt a conversion, avoid a confrontation.


I felt the same way Junkman. I hear a lot of "look at the science or data" on this site concerning this issue, which is appropriate, but also see an awful lot of arguments on this site that ignores a lot of those same data or science in other areas....it is all about world view and who's ox is being gored. As noted in other responses, it isn't as much about trying to beat someone over the head with your view or the data (actually research shows that has the opposite effect) but rather taking a second to understand someone else's world views as a way to understand how we might need to approach/discuss this conversation in a different fashion.

Cfollow
Posted 3/29/2018 9:19 AM (#900479 - in reply to #900462)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle


Junkman - 3/29/2018 7:50 AM

I don’t think I need to provide proof of musky loyalty to anyone here, and have argued with several of Minnesota’s musky haters on sites No longer even seen on the net. But, honestly, this thread makes me uncomfortable. It’s too tribal for me. Some guy says something we don’t agree with, and we won’t shop in his store. Maybe we should take our kids out of his kids School? Maybe chase his family out of town. Then the Coke CEO says something and I have to drink Pepsi. Well, I don’t like Pepsi. And, I don’t like Wendy’s. Gee, I just don’t need to know who you voted for or what is the maximum magazine size you approve of in order to buy a bobber. I would go to the guys store, buy something, and spend some time explaining how uncomfortable I am with his position, maybe suggest that it might make it less likely I’d return. In other words, attempt a conversion, avoid a confrontation.


Let him make a go of it with bass, northern pike, walleye, and panfish customers and see how it goes. You honestly feel uncomfortable NOT spending your hard earned money with a guy who has no problem trying to eliminate opportunities for you to pursue your passion? The guy had to take down his facebook page. If he hasn't figured it out by now no future conversation is going to change his mind. Junkman, do you provide financial support to candidates you are NOT going to vote for?
Conservation Guy
Posted 3/29/2018 9:36 AM (#900482 - in reply to #900479)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle




Posts: 107


I don't think Junkman is talking about needing to support this guy, but a broader response to this whole issue. Polarizing the issue further probably does little good, especially for us that love to musky fish, because like it or not, we are a pretty small community in the scheme of things.
jonnysled
Posted 3/29/2018 9:38 AM (#900483 - in reply to #900482)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
^Bingo
ArmPit
Posted 3/29/2018 9:40 AM (#900484 - in reply to #900482)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle





Posts: 446


Location: Waconia, MN
Conservation Guy - 3/29/2018 9:36 AM

I don't think Junkman is talking about needing to support this guy, but a broader response to this whole issue. Polarizing the issue further probably does little good, especially for us that love to musky fish, because like it or not, we are a pretty small community in the scheme of things.


Well said!
tkuntz
Posted 3/29/2018 9:48 AM (#900486 - in reply to #900166)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle




Posts: 815


Location: Waukee, IA
In a rare turn of events, I agree with Sled. The tribal "my side, or die" attitude in this country is getting out of control and it has crippled our ability to communicate about important issues. It's a new age schism
nar160
Posted 3/29/2018 9:48 AM (#900487 - in reply to #900166)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle




Posts: 408


Location: MN
Cfollow - 3/29/2018 9:19 AM

Junkman - 3/29/2018 7:50 AM

I don’t think I need to provide proof of musky loyalty to anyone here, and have argued with several of Minnesota’s musky haters on sites No longer even seen on the net. But, honestly, this thread makes me uncomfortable. It’s too tribal for me. Some guy says something we don’t agree with, and we won’t shop in his store. Maybe we should take our kids out of his kids School? Maybe chase his family out of town. Then the Coke CEO says something and I have to drink Pepsi. Well, I don’t like Pepsi. And, I don’t like Wendy’s. Gee, I just don’t need to know who you voted for or what is the maximum magazine size you approve of in order to buy a bobber. I would go to the guys store, buy something, and spend some time explaining how uncomfortable I am with his position, maybe suggest that it might make it less likely I’d return. In other words, attempt a conversion, avoid a confrontation.


Let him make a go of it with bass, northern pike, walleye, and panfish customers and see how it goes. You honestly feel uncomfortable NOT spending your hard earned money with a guy who has no problem trying to eliminate opportunities for you to pursue your passion? The guy had to take down his facebook page. If he hasn't figured it out by now no future conversation is going to change his mind. Junkman, do you provide financial support to candidates you are NOT going to vote for?


^ absolutely agree.

This is not just some uncle of yours who holds different beliefs. This guy got on TV as an expert witness to fight against the stocking of muskies and to perpetuate the very ideas that stir up fear in the people rallying so hard against the DNR. This is not a young naive person, nor a casual angler or lake user - this is a person whose life has revolved around fishing for decades. As stated, if he hasn't figured it out by now no conversation is going to change his mind.

Social and economic pressure is the only (legal) way to deal with people like this. As to the other comments, removing your kids from his kids' school applies zero pressure, running his family out of town is overstepping by a long shot, and this two man operation is also a lot different than a giant corporation with revolving CEOs.

Edited by nar160 3/29/2018 9:49 AM
Cfollow
Posted 3/29/2018 10:23 AM (#900492 - in reply to #900487)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle


nar160, thank you finally some common sense!
I get it we can all sit down and have a town hall meeting, fireside chat, moderated debate and we can try and win the hearts and minds of the opposition in the marketplace of ideas. We can shake hands and hug afterward and slap each other on the back for how mature that solution was, but in the end this bill is moving forward RIGHT NOW. I would rather fight dirty now while we still have an actual muskie stocking program in place. The opposition is NOT going to table this legislation while we try and win their hearts and minds. Time to wake up to the reality of the situation.
Conservation Guy
Posted 3/29/2018 10:33 AM (#900493 - in reply to #900492)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle




Posts: 107


Good luck with that approach then. Like I said, you think the VAST majority of politicians, business people, lake front owners, and even other fisherman are fearful of one of the smallest, most niche sports out there (musky fishing)? I see constant in-fighting within the sport of fishing itself let alone with those that don't see value in the outdoors. We need to be building alliances because as we have seen, attempting to put out these brush fires is not a one time thing.
tswoboda
Posted 3/29/2018 10:56 AM (#900498 - in reply to #900166)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle




Posts: 349


What is the goal of publicly berating this man's business by leaving hostile negative reviews on social platforms?
Is it to hurt his business and possibly put him out of business.
Is it to pressure him into changing his stance on muskie stocking.

If either of these actually happen (they won't), how does that help the muskie community?

The way I see it is the muskie mob out with pitchforks & torches ready to end anyone who is against us. If this mans business were to suffer, then we just gave our already emotional opposition the perfect martyr.
Tommis
Posted 3/29/2018 11:01 AM (#900501 - in reply to #900166)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle





Posts: 841


Location: Southwest PA
My mum boycotted dollar tree when I was 4 because their restrooms were for employees only and I needed to take a leak. Well, I ended up peeing on their building and a couple decades later, I still don't get what that actually accomplished. Sure it felt good and was amusing to my 4 year old self, but I'm fairly positive it rained an hour afterwards.
esoxaddict
Posted 3/29/2018 11:03 AM (#900502 - in reply to #900493)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle





Posts: 8703


You can't accomplish anything in life without the cooperation of others, and that's a fact. I'd guarantee if you come across as a dick, nobody will want to cooperate with you, even if they agree with you or know you're right.
Espy
Posted 3/29/2018 11:05 AM (#900503 - in reply to #900498)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle





Posts: 323


Location: Elk River, MN
tswoboda - 3/29/2018 10:56 AM

What is the goal of publicly berating this man's business by leaving hostile negative reviews on social platforms?
Is it to hurt his business and possibly put him out of business.
Is it to pressure him into changing his stance on muskie stocking.

If either of these actually happen (they won't), how does that help the muskie community?

The way I see it is the muskie mob out with pitchforks & torches ready to end anyone who is against us. If this mans business were to suffer, then we just gave our already emotional opposition the perfect martyr.


I get what you're saying, but what is the goal of him publicly berating the muskie fishery?
Is it to hurt the fisherman's interests and leave them without lakes to fish?
Is it to pressure the state's stance on muskie stocking?

If either of those happen, how does this help his business?
jvlast15
Posted 3/29/2018 11:06 AM (#900504 - in reply to #900498)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle




Posts: 297


tswoboda - 3/29/2018 10:56 AM

What is the goal of publicly berating this man's business by leaving hostile negative reviews on social platforms?
Is it to hurt his business and possibly put him out of business.
Is it to pressure him into changing his stance on muskie stocking.

If either of these actually happen (they won't), how does that help the muskie community?

The way I see it is the muskie mob out with pitchforks & torches ready to end anyone who is against us. If this mans business were to suffer, then we just gave our already emotional opposition the perfect martyr.


A martyr? By telling other muskie guys to not buy products from a person who is actively trying to destroy the sport that they love we are creating a martyr? He is just making a really poor business decision. If his business fails, it is because he alienated enough of his customers that it put him under. Not anyones fault but his own.

Edited by jvlast15 3/29/2018 11:08 AM
jonnysled
Posted 3/29/2018 11:18 AM (#900507 - in reply to #900503)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
seems i saw that the plan of the business owner is to close after this year already due to a demolition and reconstruction of the location he's in ... could be he's just singing his retirement swan song. doesn't look like he's going to be influenced much on what he says ...
Espy
Posted 3/29/2018 11:22 AM (#900508 - in reply to #900507)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle





Posts: 323


Location: Elk River, MN
jonnysled - 3/29/2018 11:18 AM

seems i saw that the plan of the business owner is to close after this year already due to a demolition and reconstruction of the location he's in ... could be he's just singing his retirement swan song. doesn't look like he's going to be influenced much on what he says ...


100%
No way he will be influenced.

Maybe if this was 10 years ago he wouldn't have been so care-free about his words on the news. (but only for the sake of not driving away customers)
tswoboda
Posted 3/29/2018 11:47 AM (#900510 - in reply to #900503)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle




Posts: 349


Espy - 3/29/2018 11:05 AM I get what you're saying, but what is the goal of him publicly berating the muskie fishery? Is it to hurt the fisherman's interests and leave them without lakes to fish? Is it to pressure the state's stance on muskie stocking? If either of those happen, how does this help his business?
 

Could be that he is trolling the muskie community knowing the the hostile response he would get from so many keyboard warriors on FB.  It would not take much for the opposition to compile a few examples of muskie supporters FB comments and turn a lot of people against our community.  Reading some comments is flat out embarrassing to be associated with that crowd and does nothing to help our cause. 

I highly doubt the guy had this much intelligence and foresight to make his comments based on that.

Most likely he was simply speaking his mind without thinking of the backlash or any goals at all.  At which point many members of the muskie community have sunk to his level and decided to "fight fire with fire" - Seems to me that usually doesn't turn out well.  Acting out of impulse and emotion is not the way to accomplish political goals.

jonnysled
Posted 3/29/2018 11:51 AM (#900513 - in reply to #900510)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
it's an easy target for sure ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i2rlymfLbE
jvlast15
Posted 3/29/2018 12:03 PM (#900516 - in reply to #900513)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle




Posts: 297


At a certain point, doesnt it seem like he is treating muskie anglers like "Stanley" and trying to get away with as much as he can without it affecting his business? Shouldnt it start to do so? Regardless of if he is closing up shop or not,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA89H8CgLTQ
RickRll
Posted 3/29/2018 12:35 PM (#900519 - in reply to #900166)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle




Posts: 1


I feel more like creed

https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ
Espy
Posted 3/29/2018 12:57 PM (#900522 - in reply to #900519)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle





Posts: 323


Location: Elk River, MN
RickRll - 3/29/2018 12:35 PM

I feel more like creed

https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ


Classic Creed
Pepper
Posted 3/29/2018 1:38 PM (#900526 - in reply to #900522)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle




Posts: 1516


Is it time to let this thread die a natural death and move on to the next outrage?
ToddM
Posted 3/29/2018 1:50 PM (#900527 - in reply to #900526)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle





Posts: 20173


Location: oswego, il
It is a sad sort of enjoyment, lets seen if they get Frankenstein up the windmill.
dfkiii
Posted 3/29/2018 2:03 PM (#900528 - in reply to #900166)
Subject: Re: Wayzata bait and tackle





Location: Sawyer County, WI
Can't the bait shop owner simply make it all go away by shouting "fake news" ?
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