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Muskie Fishing -> General Discussion -> Where have we gone wrong ??
 
Message Subject: Where have we gone wrong ??
River2Stream
Posted 1/18/2018 6:30 PM (#890014)
Subject: Where have we gone wrong ??




Posts: 119


It seems as if musky lures are trending up in price all the time. I'm not sure if this phenomenon is a master plan from bait makers or the intelligence of musky anglers as a whole is going down. For example, I saw a nice looking dive and rise lure on MFM the other day and inquired about a price. The dude who was selling them wrote back "$150 for regulars and $175 for magnums." I'm sure barfighters are good lures but goodness gracious guys, I think its time to wake up. Some gliders and bucktails are going for outrageous prices as well. My question is - where do we draw the line?
Brian Hoffies
Posted 1/18/2018 6:44 PM (#890017 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: RE: Where have we gone wrong ??





Posts: 1663


A plain hook and worm caught fish for a long time and I suspect still would. So, the basic is hook and sinker all the way up to the moon as to what people will pay. I don't blame the manufactures, hell they wanna take the time to R&D these things God bless 'em. My problem will be when walking past one of their booths if they stick a gun in my ribs and force me to buy one. Then i'll have a problem.
River2Stream
Posted 1/18/2018 6:55 PM (#890021 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??




Posts: 119


I hear what you're saying, Brian, but can't you agree that regardless of R&D and production cost (in 99% of the cases) the lures are over priced? Now I agree with you about bait makers, I'm too lazy to do it myself and as you said, god bless their souls haha. But my takeaway is this: I think these guys are vastly overvaluing what their man hours are worth because that is what we are ultimately paying for. I have no problem supporting local, and small batch lure makers, but anything nearing $100 bucks is ridiculous in my opinion.
Sidejack
Posted 1/18/2018 7:01 PM (#890022 - in reply to #890021)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??





Posts: 1077


Location: Anoka
"we" ?
River2Stream
Posted 1/18/2018 7:05 PM (#890025 - in reply to #890022)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??




Posts: 119


I'm using "we" describing musky anglers as a whole. And if your simple and understated reply suggests that you aren't in the category who pay outrageous prices then I say bravo, sir. I'm in agreement.
esoxaddict
Posted 1/18/2018 7:17 PM (#890026 - in reply to #890025)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??





Posts: 8702


Ain't no "we" in this equation. The day I spend more for a lure than I'd pay for a rod or a reel, you may as well put me in a home, because I'll clearly have lost enough marbles at that point where I'm a danger to others out on the water!

Can;t blame 'em for trying though. There are obviously enough anglers out there willing to pay that kind of money for the magic lure that's going to but multiple 40# fish in the net in a place where 30# is a pipe dream....

Brian Hoffies
Posted 1/18/2018 8:05 PM (#890027 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??





Posts: 1663


As a manufacture would you rather sell (6) lures @ $25 each or (1) @ $150?

Why would anybody buy a $200,000 Rolls Royce when a $10,000 Kia will do the same thing?

Edited by Brian Hoffies 1/18/2018 8:06 PM
mnmusky
Posted 1/18/2018 8:05 PM (#890028 - in reply to #890026)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??




we buy and use tools. Snap-on wrench, $100 . craftsman wrench, $20. Both get the job done and have the same warranty.
why buy one over the other? could be fad, status symbol, marketing, confidence, word of mouth, who has them, etc...
lures are tools. some cost more than others for the same reasons with similar results (for the most part).
woodieb8
Posted 1/18/2018 8:48 PM (#890033 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??




Posts: 1529


we build every day. keeping cost at a decent level can be a challenge..i do know chewed lures catch more fish then fancy paint jobs.. sometimes egos,s and guys with lotsa of money ,create there own 200.00 issues lol.
Sidejack
Posted 1/18/2018 10:01 PM (#890042 - in reply to #890028)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??





Posts: 1077


Location: Anoka
mnmusky - 1/18/2018 8:05 PM
we buy and use tools. Snap-on wrench, $100 . craftsman wrench, $20. Both get the job done and have the same warranty. Why buy one over the other?


Cuz Sears is open on Sunday and you can get a replacement when you need it.
miket55
Posted 1/18/2018 11:39 PM (#890048 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??




Posts: 1187


Location: E. Tenn
There are still Sears stores that are open??
mnmusky
Posted 1/19/2018 6:37 AM (#890057 - in reply to #890042)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??




Sidejack - 1/18/2018 10:01 PM

mnmusky - 1/18/2018 8:05 PM
we buy and use tools. Snap-on wrench, $100 . craftsman wrench, $20. Both get the job done and have the same warranty. Why buy one over the other?


Cuz Sears is open on Sunday and you can get a replacement when you need it.


ACE hardware not sears. They are usually locally owned franchises. C'mon man, help your neighbor and some sell bait.
happy hooker
Posted 1/19/2018 7:00 AM (#890058 - in reply to #890057)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??




Posts: 3136


I miss poolsides,,,I would spend $100 on a dive rise "IF" I could test drive it, see the wiggle/roll and if it gets down where I want it.
ToddM
Posted 1/19/2018 7:05 AM (#890059 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??





Posts: 20172


Location: oswego, il
There is a trend towards high end boutique baits. If you can build a beautiful bait, get some huge fish caught with it and better yet by someone who is hero worshipped, you can name your price and sell alot of them. It is a 100% mental game.
darbogast90
Posted 1/19/2018 7:10 AM (#890060 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??




Posts: 105


Location: Jane Lew, WV
As long as people are paying the price, I would keep making baits and selling at that price point. It's come and go, a volatile stock. We saw it with Lake X topwaters, Dadsons, Shums, and now BarFighters. There are a few bait makers that are taking advantage of the pricey barfighters and creating their own spin-off, still making a fair return on it I believe. Where I am not as keen on paying top dollar for baits, Jon down the lane may be all about it. To each their own, I didn't work for your dollar so I can't tell you how to spend it.
Brian Hoffies
Posted 1/19/2018 7:11 AM (#890061 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??





Posts: 1663


We should accept personal responsibility and not blame the builders. Nor should we look towards the government or anybody else to suppress prices.
T.Carlson
Posted 1/19/2018 7:18 AM (#890063 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??




Posts: 155


There are plenty of $8 to $20 baits available, if you don't want to pay $150, then don't. The high priced ones are basically custom, small batch baits that guy's are making in their basements. They are not widely available so guy's pay more for them, who cares....
Trying to say there is some "master plan" is laughable.
Also, don't forget, 10% of all bait makers sales go straight to the government in the form of Excise Tax, that is one reason for the climb in prices.
Ciscokid82
Posted 1/19/2018 7:21 AM (#890065 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??





Posts: 330


Location: SE Wisc
As long as the names cool and it’s shiny I’ll pay whatever.
Junkman
Posted 1/19/2018 7:29 AM (#890067 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??




Posts: 1220


I’m not going to name the guy (for pretty obvious reasons) but I went to his seminar maybe twenty years ago and he said the fancy lures were made to catch the fishermen. He was the best known (maybe the best altogether) musky guy then, and some probably still think so. While I’m not going to argue that, or say the lure guys don’t deserve their money, I really sort of think if all your baits were painted black, you might catch as many fish. Honestly, the only thing that has sort of always bothered me is that when someone really innovates something new and effective, the copycats send it off to China and cut the guy’s legs off at the next years shows. Knowing that’s about to happen makes a guy get his money while he can, and I don’t blame him.
horsehunter
Posted 1/19/2018 7:30 AM (#890068 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??




Location: Eastern Ontario
I can only speak to the lures made by my buddy Shawn Mahar aka Hoser. Most of the foolishness is in the secondary market. I gladly pay $100 for a hand made lure or $140 for a Fatty. How many hours do you think goes into going to pick up clear western cedar cutting to dimension turning on a lathe cutting the face drilling for wire bending the hook hangers wiring it through adding the lip sealing with 2 coats of epoxy sanding painting the pattern 2 more coats of epoxy. Not making a lot of money ( but doing what he loves and getting the satisfaction of people all over North America catching big fish on his lures. ) I only buy one maybe 2 lures a year ( this year a replacement for a favourite left on bottom) and I know that it will stand up to a fight with the QUEEN should she ever cross my path.
Brian Hoffies
Posted 1/19/2018 7:57 AM (#890070 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??





Posts: 1663


I don't think anybody is arguing that a lot of work go into these baits. These guys who build them and get premium prices good for them! My point is it's all personal choice. Nobody is making anyone spend huge money on a bait. It's personal choice, plain and simple.
Slamr
Posted 1/19/2018 8:08 AM (#890072 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: RE: Where have we gone wrong ??





Posts: 6995


Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs
You can, but you don't have to....$150 for a bait? Let's see...

9" weighted suick: $24

Cisco Kid 1800 sized: $18

Magnum Pro Dawg: $24

Suick Weagle: $27

Phantom 7.5": $23

Bite Back Bait Double 9: $18

Bomber Long A Mag: $9

$143 and I'd guess that you could probably catch a fish nearly anywhere with that lineup and I did try to make sure I can be effective in any season. Yeah, it would be great to have a big diving trolling bait, but long line that Kid and you're close. Would it be great to have a pounder in there? Hell yeah, but you're close with the mag. I love the Lake X topwaters, but if I have to pick one topwater, I'm going weagle. Etc etc.

My point is you don't HAVE to spend $150 on a bait to catch fish. But as long as there is a segment of the muskie fishing population that will buy baits at this price, there will be baits sold at this price. If no one bought the high end baits for these prices, they would no longer be sold at this price. Pretty simple.

And if you don't want to spend $143 for 7 baits, try the BST board here, lots of good deals. Go to a swap meet, they're popping up all over the place, FANTASTIC deals on used gear at these. Join one of the many facebook pages where muskie people are buying and selling. Some good deals there, too.
Brad P
Posted 1/19/2018 8:17 AM (#890073 - in reply to #890072)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??




Posts: 833


It's called supply and demand. If enough people will pay $150 then the Bait Maker should charge that much. The key word there is "enough". What is enough to a small guy is probably different than to someone like Drifter.

This comes up all the time with baits, reels, rods, boats, you name it. The answer is spend what YOU are willing to spend. However, don't get mad that someone else is willing to spend more and therefore what you WANT costs MORE than YOU are willing to spend. If nobody could afford to spend $500 on Tranx, it wouldn't cost $500. OR... there wouldn't be a reel of the quality of the Tranx. In that respect you should be happy that some are willing to fork out the $$$ for the hot new thing. That means businesses will keep making the hot new things and the overall quality of our toys will continue to improve.

Basic Economics
Sidejack
Posted 1/19/2018 8:38 AM (#890075 - in reply to #890048)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??





Posts: 1077


Location: Anoka
miket55 - 1/18/2018 11:39 PM
There are still Sears stores that are open??


Lots of um, Mike.
You should really git out more brah.


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jvlast15
Posted 1/19/2018 8:38 AM (#890076 - in reply to #890073)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??




Posts: 297


Plenty of less than $30 dollars to keep me in the game. Agreed with what Brad stated above: basic economics. And he hit on the best part. All it does is make every other lure manufacturer have to step up their game and produce a better product.
ToddM
Posted 1/19/2018 8:42 AM (#890077 - in reply to #890073)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??





Posts: 20172


Location: oswego, il
What i am shocked to read in this thread is that we are looking to the government to surrpress bait prices???
Bondy
Posted 1/19/2018 10:51 AM (#890087 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??




Posts: 718


Oprah will lock prices down...
happy hooker
Posted 1/19/2018 10:52 AM (#890088 - in reply to #890077)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??




Posts: 3136


I can't believe there's not a "Dive & Rise" yet that isn't named the "Stockbroker"
VMS
Posted 1/19/2018 10:53 AM (#890089 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??





Posts: 3467


Location: Elk River, Minnesota
Hiya,
How many of you can remember the days of buying Mepps Muskie killer tandems for $7.95 and Suicks for $12.99?

Oh how times have changed...and prices with them...

Steve
Brian Hoffies
Posted 1/19/2018 10:56 AM (#890090 - in reply to #890014)
Subject: Re: Where have we gone wrong ??





Posts: 1663


I can also remember weighing 175 lbs and driving a 1967 Ford Galaxy. Oh, and having hair.
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