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Posts: 105
Location: Florida | btfish - 3/2/2017 9:17 AM
I actually hate these type of stories by people going on a mission to disprove this or that, as this is becoming the culture of guys in the sport. Nobody ever believes anybody anymore. Catching one big muskie is a great accomplishment that most muskie fishermen never accomplish, and for those that consistently get them good going. (Class of their own)
Now if a guy posts a nice fish nobody buys him a beer and he may get 1 reply saying good job, 9 replies saying I don't believe you, and 1000 jealous other guys.
I am one of those guys that has caught more than my share of big fish in my life time and still do, but I don't post it anymore. I have busted my butt to catch those fish putting in countless hours and spent lots of money traveling. I never have heard it face to face but I can just imagine what people have said about me, so be it. Then we wonder why some the guys who I classify as gods of the sport don't say much?
Sorry for the rant.
Well said. It never surprises me seeing people trying to discredit another person's catch and its a petty thing to do. Some people seem to enjoy insulting other peoples catches more than giving compliments. Saying ''thank you for posting your catch'' or ''congratulations'' goes a long way, especially if you want people to keep posting their reports. With that said, nothing that somebody says online will take away another mans accomplishment in fishing, and from the looks of it that +69 pound Muskie record is going to last for a long time. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | What 69 pound muskie is that?
This debate has little to nothing to do with your first couple statements. This isn't someone fudging a bit about a 52. It's supposed to be the World Record, and it's just plain obviously not what it was claimed to be.
Things were different back then, but if anyone tried to pull such an obvious hoax off today to displace a real record, it would be laughed off this board within minutes.
Not only that, but there was another fish removed in large part due to efforts of the very people protecting this deal so THIS fish could take over the WR. The group refused to consider this fish with the same critical eye.
I get it, the idea is to promote the area and fishery and if it was just a big fish claim, no one would have questioned it. In fact, had they not ripped apart the standing WR and left one even more questionable in place New York would still hold the record.
The average muskie angler deserves to know what the real, actual potential of the fish we chase is.
This is a clear case of reaping what one sews, but as long as the very organization that lists the WR represents business interests in the area where this fish was 'caught', the entire affair is even more spectacularly off center.
It's about money, tourism dollars, and prestige, not someone over estimating a fish a bit.
At least Rhinelander chose to use a truly silly mystical creature to market the area. Yet the Hodag is real, I have seen one. It's out in front of the COC building.
Larry and I don't always see eye to eye and in fact argue loudly sometimes, but we share mutual respect. He didn't convince me of anything, the evidence did. Why should I care from the editorial position? Better question, why shouldn't I?
Larry isn't trying to 'discredit' anyone or anything, he's seeking the truth as a historian and in a long, detailed, and careful analysis by a diverse group, made a clear case that history should be adjusted. If it's 'just a story' or 'lore', then let's make it a historical record and establish a modern World Record program and list the record as such.
Wait, that's not how this works in ANY sport....yet here we are.
If the fish in the attached image is as large as claimed, I have caught at least two World Records.
Attachments
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 Louie.jpg (23KB - 611 downloads)
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Posts: 319
Location: Tomahawk,Wis | See now you all know why I did not tell anyone about my 65" 72 lber caught in Wis. |
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Posts: 32785
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | pfft, if you caught that fish the world would know about it...  |
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| Let's just cut to the chase...
It's bull#*#*. Everyone who isn't an idiot or an a-hole sees that clearly. There is no substantiating evidence to support the claim. There are mountains of evidence that clearly repudiate the claim. Politics and monetary interests have clouded the issue to the point where it will likely not be resolved any time soon. The only thing the record has going for it is the fact that the guy behind it is DEAD. There is no other evidence, research, or history that would even come close to validating the world record. What we have is politics, publicity, and monetary interests holding fast to a record that for all intents and purposes has proven to be bunk.
Give it up. Let it go. You're full of #*#* and everybody knows it. The ****ing fish just don't get that #*^@ big. They never have, and it's likely that they never will. Teams of people who know more than you, have done more research than you, and are more equipped to have an opinion than you have proven that beyond any reasonable doubt.
The giant muskies of today are THE giant muskies. Go home and apologize to your wife and family for being absent. Throw a pizza in the oven. Pet your dog, plant your garden, wash your car, call your mother. It's OVER. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Geez Jeff, I think we'd all appreciate it if you would speak more to the point.
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Posts: 8717
| sworrall - 3/2/2017 9:18 PM
Geez Jeff, I think we'd all appreciate it if you would speak more to the point.
*sigh*...
Apparently I've failed to be as concise as I should be... I get carried away sometimes.
Let's try this again...
WTF are you people smoking?!?
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Location: central Wisconsin | Might as well sell all my gear then. |
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Posts: 32785
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Oh, I don't know, the current 58# fish is darned impressive. |
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| No body gives a poop about world records anymore because no one believes any of them are world records. Its over. Does anyone except maybe the record keepers actually believe that the current "modern day" record is actually the biggest muskie ever caught in the world? Or is it just something that fits neatly into somebody else agenda. The mine is bigger than yours attitude is dead. Thank you!!! Can we just go fishing now and give this nonsense up?
I raise my glass to the real world record holder and hope that the only ones to know about it are him/her and the big guy in the sky! |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | These arent nails in a coffin. Posting this stuff is digging up the coffin, taking the body out, making sure it's still dead, fondling it a bit, maybe posting a few selfies with the body to instagram, then posting on twitter that you're putting nails in the coffin and then doing a fb live video of you lowering the body back in the ground.
No one believes these records anymore. It's done. |
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Posts: 574
Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Unfortunately, it appears a few on this board do still believe in King Louie's record. I can't imagine why. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure it out. |
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Location: oswego, il | Please post the selfies! |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 4amuskie - 3/3/2017 8:00 AM
No body gives a poop about world records anymore because no one believes any of them are world records. Its over. Does anyone except maybe the record keepers actually believe that the current "modern day" record is actually the biggest muskie ever caught in the world? Or is it just something that fits neatly into somebody else agenda. The mine is bigger than yours attitude is dead. Thank you!!! Can we just go fishing now and give this nonsense up?
I raise my glass to the real world record holder and hope that the only ones to know about it are him/her and the big guy in the sky!
No 'agenda' other than to offer what has been the largest Muskie registered using bulletproof registration requirements. It's IS the biggest muskie in the world that was registered, there's a release program in place for released fish, and a giant from Mille Lacs holds that position. You might not care, but others do, and this is doing it right.
As to the rest, a WR can only be a WR if it's registered, and it's even perfectly OK to release it. |
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Posts: 1275
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | 4amuskie, YES, people do care as Mr. Worrall stated...LOTS of them. You cannot imagine the number of folks that let me know same. I don't believe, I, or anyone on the Modern Day Muskellunge World Record Committee has ever said that our current 58 pound world record "is actually the biggest muskie ever caught in the world." What we do say is that it is the heaviest and best documented (as Worrall said "bullet proof").
Also, as Worrall stated, I have NO AGENDA in this regard other than the truth! I live in Hayward, Wisconsin (supposed home of "World Record Muskies") and until recently was a muskie guide making my living here...do you honestly think I would speak against the Hayward records, hurting my personal income if I didn't believe what I write to be the truth? Would you jeopardize your job for the truth? Doubt it.
Never once have I claimed "mine is bigger than yours".
Personally, I believe that the Williamson fish of 2000, which was caught in Georgian Bay and weighed 61# 4oz. (on an uncertified scale) may just be the heaviest muskie ever caught, but it obviously cannot comply with Modern Day Record rules. I am confident that all heavier muskies ever registered were less than claimed!
Muskies just don't grow much over 60 pounds and there has never been one put on a scale (legitimately) that gets anywhere near the 70 pound mark, taken by any means (pre-spawn fish not included)!! |
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Posts: 255
| I looked up Malo musky and found a February 2013 discussion of 4 pages about all this same stuff. Can't wait for next years late winter arguments. Put it on the agenda. |
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Location: 31 | travelingfisherman - 3/2/2017 6:41 PM btfish - 3/2/2017 9:17 AM I actually hate these type of stories by people going on a mission to disprove this or that, as this is becoming the culture of guys in the sport. Nobody ever believes anybody anymore. Catching one big muskie is a great accomplishment that most muskie fishermen never accomplish, and for those that consistently get them good going. (Class of their own) Now if a guy posts a nice fish nobody buys him a beer and he may get 1 reply saying good job, 9 replies saying I don't believe you, and 1000 jealous other guys. I am one of those guys that has caught more than my share of big fish in my life time and still do, but I don't post it anymore. I have busted my butt to catch those fish putting in countless hours and spent lots of money traveling. I never have heard it face to face but I can just imagine what people have said about me, so be it. Then we wonder why some the guys who I classify as gods of the sport don't say much? Sorry for the rant. Well said. It never surprises me seeing people trying to discredit another person's catch and its a petty thing to do. Some people seem to enjoy insulting other peoples catches more than giving compliments. Saying ''thank you for posting your catch'' or ''congratulations'' goes a long way, especially if you want people to keep posting their reports. With that said, nothing that somebody says online will take away another mans accomplishment in fishing, and from the looks of it that +69 pound Muskie record is going to last for a long time. I can completely understand why some of you cannot understand why these Spray records keep resurfacing even though it's one of the most obvious fishing frauds out there. As unpleasant as it can be at times, IMHO it’s something we need to do as long as this record resides at the top… the least of which is to help educate newcomers to our sport. If you please; Larry is not getting any younger and still holds out hope that this situation can be resolved in his lifetime, perhaps because he (and others like me) grew up in a different era and still take these records seriously. In a nutshell, Larry almost single-handedly preserved muskie history, and was instrumental in helping to compile (what he thought was) accurate records back in the day. These "kept" records may not be as relevant today, but many of us still feel that if records are to be kept, they should be accurate… and they should not be trampled on and used for personal gain like they are now. Larry has spent a large portion of his life collecting muskie history for the betterment of our beloved sport, much of it which will be enjoyed by future generations without regard to its origin. I think we all owe Larry a large debt of gratitude for preserving muskie history, and I hope it's not too much to ask for those of you who have a problem with it to simply skip these discussions. I also think Steve deserves a lot of credit for embracing the obvious truth and allowing it to be presented here on Muskie First, it would have been a much easier job for Steve to have simply ignored it like they did over at Musky Hunter. It’s my personal opinion that if Musky Hunter (and to some degree Muskies Inc.) would have stepped up in a like manner in 2005, all this unpleasantness would be behind us now. Anyway, thank you Larry, Steve and Muskie First! |
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Location: The desert | Slamr - 3/3/2017 8:41 AM
These arent nails in a coffin. Posting this stuff is digging up the coffin, taking the body out, making sure it's still dead, fondling it a bit, maybe posting a few selfies with the body to instagram, then posting on twitter that you're putting nails in the coffin and then doing a fb live video of you lowering the body back in the ground.
No one believes these records anymore. It's done.
After this many years, what parts are being fondled?
Edited by Pointerpride102 3/3/2017 1:21 PM
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Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | Good question for Dettloff PointerPride102, as I don't even know where Louie's grave is (Slamr), but rest assured Johnny D certainly does. He even has a picture of Louie's grave stone in his book!
Edited by Larry Ramsell 3/3/2017 2:05 PM
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Location: Ashland WI | I am one that is thankful and appreciative of what Larry has done. I honestly had no idea the records were false until I read a little here (a couple years ago) and dug into a bit. |
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| Larry
I appreciate your the intense dedication you have and the painstaking work you do and I thank you for it. I also believe the world record program should end. I see no purpose to it at all other than to put someones name on a list for a fish that can change its weight in an instant by eating a 5 lb walleye or 10 lbs of cisco or shad or be laden with eggs. No one believes Louie Spray but I give him credit for a good ride. It was fun. Time to move on.
The muskie world has done something few others have and its called catch and release. Time to say photos are good enough. We all know a giant when we see it even though we might argue about it. Part of life. Just my opinion, but I enjoy yours too. |
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Posts: 8717
| If there's anybody in Musky fishing that ought to be famous, it's Mr. Ramsell. The Compendium is something to behold, that's for sure... I can't even keep track of the muskies I've caught myself, and let me tell 'ya, it ain't all that many! |
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Posts: 105
Location: Florida | This subject reminds me of the current world record 22 pound,4 ounce largemouth bass that was caught in 1932.Both these records have a lot of controversy around them and both where caught before the internet existed. Hopefully both these records get beaten soon in a manner that all will consider 100% official. |
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Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | 4amuskie: And we DO have a WR release program here on MuskieFirst! But we will still maintain a kept record as well, just in case!! |
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Location: oswego, il | 14ledo81 - 3/3/2017 2:52 PM
I am one that is thankful and appreciative of what Larry has done. I honestly had no idea the records were false until I read a little here (a couple years ago) and dug into a bit.
Lets not forget the beating those who challenged the records took, right down to challenging the non for profit status of a muskies inc club by someone affilliated with the hof. |
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Posts: 253
Location: On the water | Larry, one of the most impressive fish, at least for me, is the
musky caught by Rick Clark, 60x29.5, from the St. Lawrence.
Very little has been said about this fish, what’s the story.
Thanks, Tom |
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Posts: 31
| As far as Sprays fish goes, it's a true monster. Just ask the guy who debunked Lawton's fish.
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Posts: 1425
Location: St. Lawrence River | Like Steve said, it's a local pride thing. A promotional thing. The only people I ever see getting butt hurt about the Spray deal is Wisconsin residents. Go figure. No different here, there is a ton of promotion here still and always will claim "St Lawrence River home of the world record musky"... and I will say bullcrap. Those fish were shams...Man do people get mad, or just tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. It hurts their pride and the pride of where they are from.
Bottom line, if you truly believe in your heart that Spray fish was legit, I don't take you seriously on a personal level. |
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Posts: 32
Location: West Bend WI | I visited this link in LR opening post (http://www.worldmuskiealliance.com/spray ). I wanted to send a message to the email address provided from the "contact" button ([email protected]).
The message was returned "This Message was deliverable due to the following reason:Reason:invalid mailbox (call fwd)".
Larry, is there a working email address to contact this organization?
Pat
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Posts: 1275
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | FEVER: I'll have to pass on that one, sorry. Giant fish, but...
Pat: Just PM Jerry Newman (he posted above). He is the founder of the WRMA, now WMA. Or try: http://www.worldmuskiealliance.com/
Edited by Larry Ramsell 3/5/2017 7:56 AM
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