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| Its a time of year and location thing for me. In open water (early) I have had good success getting porpoisers to bite because they are feeding high. Same thing in the fall when they are chasing bait, shallow on rocks. For me it happens quite often, could be a body of water thing too. |
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| CPRAPIG - 9/22/2016 10:54 AM
Its a time of year and location thing for me. In open water (early) I have had good success getting porpoisers to bite because they are feeding high. Same thing in the fall when they are chasing bait, shallow on rocks. For me it happens quite often, could be a body of water thing too.
I think it must be a body of water thing, too. |
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Location: MN | Try switching baits, they aren't going to bite the one that they just saw on the end of your line. 
I've caught a couple on top water that porpoised near the boat. They seemed like they were cruising between spots or moving shallow from the deeps. The ones that stick their heads straight out of the water I never have any action on. Last year I fished 14 hours without even a follow. On the way back to the launch I almost hit one that had it's head straight out of the water. Sometimes I think they are just messing with me. |
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| speed! |
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| Oddly enough, we got a porpoiser to eat on Friday... TWICE. Buddy spotted the fish. Wasn't swimming around with it's head out like a beaver, it just did a classic porpoise surface. Slowly broke the surface nose first, then back, and tail slid down.
On about the third cast it ate the tail of my bulldawg boatside. Buddy casted back with a cowgirl and it ate that. It pulled him off balance while trying to walk it around the trolling motor and he lost it due to a straight rod. Big one too.
First time I/we've ever gotten any attention from a fish that surfaced nearby. But the muskies were going suicidal Friday so that played a part, I'm sure. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Agree with others, not everyone is on the same page here. The ones I call porpoising fish are the ones that come up to gulp some air and head down burping a trail of bubbles. These fish appear to be forcing air into their swim bladder so they can go deep. They're always negative and rarely follow, I can only think of a few that have been caught in the last 30+ years and those were all on a burned bucktail and were usually the only fish caught or seen those days.
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Posts: 219
| Caught 3 in 27 years of musky fishing. a 48 on a suick (Cass), a 44 on a depth raider (LOTW), and a 34" on a bulldawg (Cave Run, KY).... throw at everyone I see....
My 2-cents.
Ross |
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| Will Schultz - 9/26/2016 11:45 AM Agree with others, not everyone is on the same page here. The ones I call porpoising fish are the ones that come up to gulp some air and head down burping a trail of bubbles. These fish appear to be forcing air into their swim bladder so they can go deep. They're always negative and rarely follow, I can only think of a few that have been caught in the last 30+ years and those were all on a burned bucktail and were usually the only fish caught or seen those days.
Wondering why a fish would gulp air into their swim bladder to go deep? Wouldn't that make it harder for them? I'd think they'd gulp air to gain buoyancy. I interpret gulping fish as wanting to remain near the surface, perhaps to warm/cool/get increased oxygen/relax, i.e., not feeding. I've never gotten one to be interested in anything, either. |
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| I would agree that Muskellunge were porpoising in order to go deep... IF they were not doing it in a river that is about 1-2 feet deep for the majority of it's entirety - often.
Sometimes... I like to believe they are simply coming up to have a look around.
I think we may need to increase the number of posts allowed on each web page  |
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| Until we can ask one..
I always figured maybe they were trying to help force down a big meal. Might explain why you rarely get them to react and why those days when you see them are usually pretty dead. You just missed the feeding window... |
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| Anyone ever go fishing without seeing a Muskellunge porpoise the entire day... only to have one follow... then, have it start porpoising around the boat?
This has happened on Lake of the Woods and a smaller Illinois lake.
I wonder if it has happened anywhere else in the universe...?!
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| Chemi - 9/26/2016 5:46 PM
Will Schultz - 9/26/2016 11:45 AM Agree with others, not everyone is on the same page here. The ones I call porpoising fish are the ones that come up to gulp some air and head down burping a trail of bubbles. These fish appear to be forcing air into their swim bladder so they can go deep. They're always negative and rarely follow, I can only think of a few that have been caught in the last 30+ years and those were all on a burned bucktail and were usually the only fish caught or seen those days.
Wondering why a fish would gulp air into their swim bladder to go deep? Wouldn't that make it harder for them? I'd think they'd gulp air to gain buoyancy. I interpret gulping fish as wanting to remain near the surface, perhaps to warm/cool/get increased oxygen/relax, i.e., not feeding. I've never gotten one to be interested in anything, either.
In order to remain neutrally buoyant in deeper water (higher pressure), they'd have to start with a larger (more inflated) bladder before diving down.
Let's say a fish has body volume of 1 ft^3 (this is a huge musky, world record) with a swim bladder that makes up (for example) 0.02 ft^3 of that volume while near the surface (air bladder pressure is barely above atmospheric).
If that fish wants to go hang out 34 ft down, it will want to double its swim bladder volume (by taking in air) before diving. After gulping air, it would temporarily tend to float ever so slightly before diving to the depths where pressure is about 2 atmospheres - where its swim bladder would be compressed to half its pre-depth volume - where its overall body volume is restored to that 1.00 ft^3 for neutral buoyancy.
Now, I don't even know if fish gulp air, but if they do for buoyancy purposes, that would be why. |
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Location: Alex or Alek? | esoxaddict - 9/26/2016 6:59 PM
I always figured maybe they were trying to help force down a big meal. You just missed the feeding window...
^ This is what I have always though/heard about the ones that stick their whole head out taking a gulp of air. |
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| I bet everyone who has commented... is correct when it comes to one time or another |
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Location: Kronenwetter, WI | I have seen this many times in shallow lakes when the water temps are above 75 degrees...(no I won't fish if they reach 80 or nearly 80).this usually happens once the air temps drop below the water temps....essentially they are radiating body heat...i.e. Without deep deep water to escape the warmth, they porpoise into the cooler air. In these cases this usually happens right while the sun is setting. I have found these fish to be very very catchable. They've laid dormant all day waiting to cool off and hit the buffet line. Sounds unbelievable, but last season I caught 5 in two hours under northern nights and lost two others (yes---best two hours fishing of my life). For these fish I lob mag dawgs, slowly lift rod to 12 o'clock, reel down and repeat.
Edited by Cowboyhannah 9/27/2016 9:46 PM
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| Gar lift their heads and dive in the exact same manner. I wonder if they have the same system. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Chemi - 9/26/2016 6:46 PM Wondering why a fish would gulp air into their swim bladder to go deep? Wouldn't that make it harder for them? I'd think they'd gulp air to gain buoyancy. As noted the additional gasses in the swim bladder are necessary to remain stabilized at depth. I see them gulp and then burp on their way down, which provides the correct amount of gasses in their swim bladder once they reach depth. Reelwise - 9/26/2016 7:41 PM I would agree that Muskellunge were porpoising in order to go deep... IF they were not doing it in a river that is about 1-2 feet deep for the majority of it's entirety - often. Sometimes... I like to believe they are simply coming up to have a look around. I think we may need to increase the number of posts allowed on each web page :) The swim bladder is for stabilization at any depth, in a current situation where additional stabilization would be beneficial I could see why they would maintain their swim bladder in the most effective state. This may explain why Bondy has noted days of good fishing when seeing fish porpoising. Bondy - 9/28/2016 7:41 AM Gar lift their heads and dive in the exact same manner. I wonder if they have the same system. Gar are a different animal altogether, muskies are able to exchange gasses in/out of their swim bladder but that’s the only function. Gar have the ability for their swim bladder to function like lungs and not just stabilization. |
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| Will... I was not saying what you said was wrong. I'm just saying, that is not the case every time. Especially if the water is only 2 ft deep. There is no "deep" to swim down to. They literally porpoise... only to come down and rest just below the surface.
Everyone might not be on your page, but they are on a page that allows for discussion - with relevant information and facts based on realistic actions and time that really took place.
I'm not sure we can end it with... 'everyone is confused and this is exactly why these fish are doing what they are doing.' |
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| I appreciate your willingness to share information with the masses, Will. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Reelwise - 9/28/2016 11:11 AM Will... I was not saying what you said was wrong. I'm just saying, that is not the case every time. Especially if the water is only 2 ft deep. There is no "deep" to swim down to. Didn't think that at all. Just offering some reasoning on, if they are porpoising to adjust their swim bladder, why they would do it for better stabilization even in a shallow river situation. I think it's safe to say that not all surfacing fish are doing it to adjust their swim bladder. It's my opinion that the fish porpoising to adjust their swim bladder are specifically the ones that are nearly uncatchable.
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Posts: 1636
| I agree with what you said not only due to the fact that there is scientific and realistic reasoning behind it, but myself and I'm sure just about every Muskellunge angler who has caught a fish or has had a fish follow out over deep, open water - has seen just how tough it appears to be for them to swim back down and out of sight.
Good luck getting them to come back up after they try with all their might to get back down - nose first in a perfect, vertical position. *Over deep, deep water that is. ...fishing
Edited by Reelwise 9/28/2016 12:23 PM
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| Got a few porpoisering fish to hit on jerkbaits. Yet some have ignored the baits, like the one yesterday. |
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Location: Black Creek, WI | Will Schultz - 9/28/2016 10:45 AM I think it's safe to say that not all surfacing fish are doing it to adjust their swim bladder. It's my opinion that the fish porpoising to adjust their swim bladder are specifically the ones that are nearly uncatchable. I'm in the same camp as Will. |
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Location: Eagan, MN | Some tracking studies suggest muskies go deep to feed and shallower to digest. If that is the case, and porpoising muskies are gulping air to go deeper (perhaps to feed), then why don't we catch more of them? My experience is that muskies seem to porpoise most often early in the a.m., then again right around dusk, particularly during the warm water periods. I can recall being on top of one shallow reef at dusk, seeing no fish, then muskies in great numbers started porpoising all around me. None of them followed or struck when we cast to them. If they are gulping air to go deeper, the reason doesn't seem to be because they are hungry and ready to feed. Seeking more comfortable/stable water temps perhaps as the upper level of the water column cools in the late evening/night? Still, why are they so turned-off generally speaking? A mystery I'd love to solve... |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | BrianF. - 9/29/2016 3:09 PM Some tracking studies suggest muskies go deep to feed and shallower to digest. Sorry to change the subject a little but I've always wondered if those making this statement got this assumption backward. What if they were shallow to warm their body so they could return to colder water where they could hunt more effectively? Endothermic fish such as bluefin tuna are able to swim faster and farther than other fish. I realize muskies are not going to be able to maintain this warmer core temperature from being in shallow/warmer water for an extended period but if only for a short period it would still enable them to be faster and for their brain/eye functions to be better.
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Location: Black Creek, WI | Well... my BST has always been that they gulp air to fill their air bladder AFTER feeding deep to help them "float" higher in the water column to enjoy the warmer water there. The warmer water increases metabolism to help digest that meal they just ate at a greater depth.... and provides the muscle recovery Will references with his Tuna example. Thus, I blow them off as "impossible" to catch since they are tired from feeding and no longer hungry since they just ate. Once the shallow recovery process is done (or getting close to done) the fish are now more catchable... and do not have a need to gulp air (so they do not porpoise and we do not see them).
Edited by jlong 9/30/2016 9:15 AM
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| Will Schultz - 9/30/2016 9:36 AM BrianF. - 9/29/2016 3:09 PM Some tracking studies suggest muskies go deep to feed and shallower to digest. Sorry to change the subject a little but I've always wondered if those making this statement got this assumption backward. What if they were shallow to warm their body so they could return to colder water where they could hunt more effectively? Endothermic fish such as bluefin tuna are able to swim faster and farther than other fish. I realize muskies are not going to be able to maintain this warmer core temperature from being in shallow/warmer water for an extended period but if only for a short period it would still enable them to be faster and for their brain/eye functions to be better.
I believe the scientists got it right.
On the middle Fox River located in Illinois, Muskellunge will indeed move into a shallow, cold water creek during the summer.
The creek is almost always 67 degrees in the summer while the river can go from 70 degrees in the early morning and sometimes reach the mid 80's by late afternoon.
I believe the Muskellunge may be digesting food when they move into the creek, considering the mouth of the creek I am referring to is where we will catch most of the fish during this time of the year. If not the mouth of the creek... we catch them in the main river.
I would think we would catch them in the creek more often if they were moving in to feed rather than digest or simply enjoy the cooler water. Up to a dozen Muskellunge will move into this creek at once and most of the time - they will sit on the bottom, face upstream, and ignore every lure that swims past them. Once in a while... they will react, but it is rare compared to the action we normally get in the river.
They seem to want to feed in the warm river more often than not... while they appear to be chillin' in the cold, shallow creek water. Maybe this only applies to river Muskellunge? There have been quite a few tracking studies on rivers. They are, indeed - river fish What do you think, Will? |
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| I want to throw in there that this creek is sometimes full of Shad and Suckers... The Muskellunge just do not seem interested in feeding in the creek as often as the river - even through the creek can hold a ton of fish at once.
Sometimes I slip the boat in just to watch... |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Reelwise - 9/30/2016 11:12 AM Will Schultz - 9/30/2016 9:36 AM BrianF. - 9/29/2016 3:09 PM Some tracking studies suggest muskies go deep to feed and shallower to digest. Sorry to change the subject a little but I've always wondered if those making this statement got this assumption backward. What if they were shallow to warm their body so they could return to colder water where they could hunt more effectively? Endothermic fish such as bluefin tuna are able to swim faster and farther than other fish. I realize muskies are not going to be able to maintain this warmer core temperature from being in shallow/warmer water for an extended period but if only for a short period it would still enable them to be faster and for their brain/eye functions to be better.
I believe the scientists got it right. On the middle Fox River located in Illinois, Muskellunge will indeed move into a shallow, cold water creek during the summer.
The creek is almost always 67 degrees in the summer while the river can go from 70 degrees in the early morning and sometimes reach the mid 80's by late afternoon.
I believe the Muskellunge may be digesting food when they move into the creek, considering the mouth of the creek I am referring to is where we will catch most of the fish during this time of the year. If not the mouth of the creek... we catch them in the main river.
I would think we would catch them in the creek more often if they were moving in to feed rather than digest or simply enjoy the cooler water. Up to a dozen Muskellunge will move into this creek at once and most of the time - they will sit on the bottom, face upstream, and ignore every lure that swims past them. Once in a while... they will react, but it is rare compared to the action we normally get in the river.
They seem to want to feed in the warm river more often than not... while they appear to be chillin' in the cold, shallow creek water. Maybe this only applies to river Muskellunge? There have been quite a few tracking studies on rivers. They are, indeed - river fish What do you think, Will? This sounds like fish trying to be in a more comfortable water temperature with higher DO and not really about feeding or digesting. However, if they're feeding out in the warmer water and coming into the cooler water to digest this would again mean the assumption of the scientists that they digest in shallow warm water and feed in deep cool water wasn't accurate.
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| Where is it posted that the scientists said anything about water temperature? It must not have loaded. If it's not there... nice try? lol
I believe they are correct (at times) considering a lot of the shallow fish remain stationary for long periods of time and appear to be chilling or 'waiting' for something. Even the deep water fish come up into the upper levels of the water column over deep water and just 'chill.'
The stationary, shallow fish sometimes require a little more finesse (this could include slow, erratic twitching with large lures or hitting every square inch of water with a bucktail) than open water fish. I mean this as in... The strike zone for shallow water fish sometimes tends to be a lot smaller when fish appear to be chilling or are in an "ambush spot" while open water fish sometimes appear to come from a distance and are more willing to hit lures being brought in with a straight retrieve or trolled at a consistent and sometimes fast speed as far as how much ground is being covered.
Is this ALL contradictory when we talk about other locations in the known universe where Muskellunge exist? How about when we talk about the most important aspect of them all? Time...
Absolutely... everything is a contradiction...
UNLESS - we add location and artificial influence to the equation... along with a billion other things that can and will happen.
Not to mention the idea that most people spend a lot of their time fishing in shallow water.
We have to take more into consideration before we say somebody is wrong.
So, they are right, because they are not wrong... but, they are not right - all the time.
Like you said, Will... comfort. It always plays a role. I believe Muskellunge are seeking out water temperatures based on personal comfort and are simply reacting based on how they intercept the signals being put out by things we consider to be artificial, predatory fish food. I do not believe Muskellunge simply follow the forage.
Are they really hunting at all?
Or, are they scavengers who just so happen to eat live organisms?
Vultures like it hot and go to the food when the time calls for it.
Fish can literally be anywhere they can swim.
You would be surprised when it comes to what you can catch up a creek. |
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