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Muskie Fishing -> General Discussion -> Inside out casting
 
Message Subject: Inside out casting
Reelwise
Posted 9/21/2016 5:22 PM (#831004 - in reply to #830983)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 1636


BNelson - 9/21/2016 3:45 PM and some times over thinking things costs you fish...muskies are not hard to catch.. ;)


Not for you. Might be a little tough if you throw in a couple variables you are unfamiliar with or simply can not handle due to the lack of ability as a human being.

Some of us are capable of catching them... What is next? Understanding. Understanding before and after adds to the dynamics of your thinking. Of course we all understand... that is the beauty of it. There are so many places to go and things to do. Nobody understands EVERYTHING, but we can understand a little bit of everything. So, I do agree with your comment to some degree, Brad.

A Muskellunge is a Muskellunge is a Muskellunge... Ever hear that before? Let's put that idea in the safe for right now, especially since it is an idea that I refuse to believe in :P I do believe each and every fish is different - just like every body of water. That might not mean Muskellunge are difficult to catch, but each fish can require a different approach in order for you to catch it.

I'm all about X's and O's and you know I'm all about that computer code. Things need to be perfect when it comes to code, and trust me, I work on ways to come up with formulas to find absolutes related to Muskellunge and fishing just about every single day. But, that is just that... there is no code, but more of a script that can be modified over and over again to come to a similar result.

Hit them from all angles. If you catch a fish from one angle... there are others you are missing out on considering you caught it with the only angle you caught it with.

Check this out, obsessed_angler... just an idea. Everyone wants you to be you and do things your own way, but this is what I would do and these are things that I try often... Or have tried often. Right now I am sitting on a couch. It has been a while. Anyways... when you make it out... hit the outside weed edge. If you catch a fish or move a few fish... move inside and start casting out in the way you plan on doing so - RIGHT AWAY. If the fish are experiencing something that is heightening up their activity levels during that period of time, changing things up right away might increase your chances of proving an idea to be true if you have some willing participants :P

Edited by Reelwise 9/21/2016 5:29 PM
Reelwise
Posted 9/21/2016 5:30 PM (#831006 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 1636


Overthinking things will prepare you... thinking in general will provide ideas... Ideas are made possible by putting fourth action. With so many actions available... I find it hard to believe under-thinking can outweigh overthinking as long as you keep your actions in check :P

What up B-RAD?

apeoples
Posted 9/21/2016 6:04 PM (#831009 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 36


Location: Stone Lk Wi
(The short version) Find the spot within the spot and then find the best way to approach it.
Reelwise
Posted 9/21/2016 6:09 PM (#831011 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 1636


Short version... short versions within long versions. short versions within long versions to form a longer version.

Short casts and long casts...

Angles... how about a revolution? :P

360 DEGREES
musky-skunk
Posted 9/22/2016 10:46 AM (#831061 - in reply to #830964)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting





Posts: 785


BNelson - 9/21/2016 10:48 AM

I would disagree with HomeTimes post 100%... big girls go up shallow... a lot... they do not live their lives on the outside edge... sometimes they are on top of structure, sometimes on the inside weed edge, sometimes deep etc but to say a guy should just target the outside edge is missing lots of opportunities for big fish, even the biggest fish in the lake go shallow... we put lots of big ones in the boat this year from 4 feet to 6 feet.. my 2 cents.


Yeah couldn't agree more with Nelson on this one. This years been really good in 3-6 for me and that includes some of the biggest fish in the lake. Bottom line is don't get pigeon holed into one tactic.

Edited by musky-skunk 9/22/2016 10:48 AM
jonnysled
Posted 9/22/2016 11:45 AM (#831071 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
dooooood ...
NPike
Posted 9/22/2016 12:42 PM (#831075 - in reply to #830983)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 612


The lake I fish holds both pike and musky’s. By summer the weeds are so densely packed that they hold few if any fish. This is true up to 13 or more FOW. Fishing inside these weeds would not produce fish. Perhaps on other lakes where the weeds are not so densely packed would produce different results? My guess is that for this inside casting to work these must be space between the weeds for the fish to maneuver?
bllhogg
Posted 9/22/2016 12:47 PM (#831076 - in reply to #831075)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




i'd be willing to bet that there are a lot more fish in those weeds than you think
Kirby Budrow
Posted 9/23/2016 11:29 AM (#831171 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting





Posts: 2255


Location: Chisholm, MN
I don't know...Muskies are a little dumber than you think Reelwise. Overall, a moving bait seen by a moderately active fish will get their attention. Sure, casting angles can play a part but I am not about to hit every sing inch of a lake from every angle to try and find the one picky fish that will only be interested in 1 of the 360 degrees.
BNelson
Posted 9/23/2016 11:41 AM (#831173 - in reply to #831171)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting





Location: Contrarian Island
100% agreed..muskies are not very smart...they have to eat to survive, that is why we catch them on baits that look nothing like what they actually eat...

Edited by BNelson 9/23/2016 11:42 AM
MTJ
Posted 9/23/2016 12:29 PM (#831181 - in reply to #831173)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 67


The only time you really know when someone in our sport is just offering 'opinion' is when they use the words 'always' or 'never' to describe muskies. Overthinking and out thinking yourself on the water almost certainly will cost you more fish than failing to adjust when you should but staying out of your own head is just about impossible sometimes. You're more likely to see a unicorn from your deer stand than nail down an absolute in musky fishing.
Reelwise
Posted 9/23/2016 4:11 PM (#831191 - in reply to #831181)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 1636


MTJ - 9/23/2016 1:29 PM The only time you really know when someone in our sport is just offering 'opinion' is when they use the words 'always' or 'never' to describe muskies. Overthinking and out thinking yourself on the water almost certainly will cost you more fish than failing to adjust when you should but staying out of your own head is just about impossible sometimes. You're more likely to see a unicorn from your deer stand than nail down an absolute in musky fishing.


Since the group is all about disagreeing... Can I disagree for once?

The only time you really know when someone in our sport is just offering opinion is when they rarely use the words always or never to describe Muskellunge.

Overthinking gives you more options. It mainly comes down to how much data you can analyze and break down at one time in your head when you do not have certain tools to help you make things easier than they would be if you had those tools.

In order to come to the conclusion to deserve to throw the words always and never around, I believe I would have to have experience when it comes to just about everything... or have access to my own or others data based on all of the experiences I can not go through myself.

There are few absolutes... and believe it or not - it takes a ton of data to get to the majority of them.

If you do not believe so... I will be happy to send you a couple projects to work on

I mean well... I promise. I do pretty well, also. Overthinking has not only lead me to a good number of catches (which are absolutes by the way), but positive opportunities in several other subjects as well as different arenas within the same.

Each Muskellunge has a code based on scripts within a system.

Edited by Reelwise 9/23/2016 4:30 PM
Reelwise
Posted 9/23/2016 4:33 PM (#831196 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 1636


BNelson...

When we trigger a Muskellunge to react to our lures - we insert a script into it's zone of awareness. The script that triggered the initial response can lead you to the most absolute result we are speaking of, but sometimes we need to change the code within the script with an absolute code in order to get them to "bite." This is when we need to get the proper script in the strike-zone - with an absolute code that leads to an absolute result that can be added to a data base full of irregularities literally within a database full of irregularities hoping for a positive, absolute in order for comfortable survival.


Edited by Reelwise 9/23/2016 4:35 PM
Reelwise
Posted 9/23/2016 4:41 PM (#831198 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 1636


So... you think the Muskellunge is dumb? How smart do you think we are then? I believe you are only on a high level of understanding when it comes to what it is you know about yourself and the fish itself.

There is still plenty to learn and plenty to figure out... especially when it comes to the word absolute.

Trust me.

Let's keep having fun guys.
Reelwise
Posted 9/23/2016 4:44 PM (#831199 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 1636


I am willing to do exactly what it is you just said, Kirby. I would literally love nothing more than to hit it from every angle... shallow and deep... day and night... on top, in the middle, and on the bottom, at every possible time.

Not possible, but that is what I try to do anyways... lol
14ledo81
Posted 9/23/2016 4:59 PM (#831201 - in reply to #831196)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting





Posts: 4269


Location: Ashland WI
Reelwise - 9/23/2016 4:33 PM

BNelson...

When we trigger a Muskellunge to react to our lures - we insert a script into it's zone of awareness. The script that triggered the initial response can lead you to the most absolute result we are speaking of, but sometimes we need to change the code within the script with an absolute code in order to get them to "bite." This is when we need to get the proper script in the strike-zone - with an absolute code that leads to an absolute result that can be added to a data base full of irregularities literally within a database full of irregularities hoping for a positive, absolute in order for comfortable survival.


Are we still talking muskies??? Or are we talking mushrooms??
BNelson
Posted 9/23/2016 5:07 PM (#831202 - in reply to #831201)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting





Location: Contrarian Island
Brandyn,
while you offer some interesting points of view, my take on it is yes, muskies are not intelligent creatures relative to humans..are they 'smart' for their habitat amongst other fish? sure maybe, they are the top of the food chain.. some want to constantly ask the "whys" in the sport, me, I'm happy with keeping it simple, muskies are not hard to catch, nor figure out, in fact, they have more to do with us catching them than we do... I'm happy with my results and don't need to dig all that much deeper... do I want to constantly learn more about them sure, but at the end of the day, they need to eat to survive, we put lures in front of them that most don't look anything like what they eat, and they hit them... if they were 'smart' wouldn't they be smart enough to know the difference.. put a piece of metal with hooks on a plate in front of you when you are hungry, do you eat it? no.
this thread has taken off in another tangent so maybe start a new one....

Edited by BNelson 9/23/2016 5:09 PM
Reelwise
Posted 9/23/2016 5:13 PM (#831204 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 1636


Mushrooms in a can... Great idea for the boat. Thank you.

All of us go out there to break down all the variables to the point where we can insert the best piece into the equation in order to reach an absolute result - which is a catch... as well as... enjoy our time and take things easy or put our best effort forward if we choose. We can do one or the other, or do both. Everything takes time.

Intelligence is a unique word in itself and one that can absolutely be argued when it comes to Muskellunge. Since each and every fish is different, each fish is intelligent in a sense that they hold different, and unique information or data based on variables that each fish within the lake have an opportunity to experience, but they do not generally experience the same conditions and often find themselves in a variety of situations at different times throughout their life-time, which just so happens to be a different time period if we are talking Muskellunge of different ages.

Our own personal time frame allows us to break our own individual experiences with each fish down to the point where we can call them dumb - but, at least we all know it would be out of respect. We would not put in the time if we did not love them
Reelwise
Posted 9/23/2016 5:15 PM (#831206 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 1636


"not smart"

Have you ever spooked a fish?

I have spooked some fish... They reacted pretty quick... possibly, never to be seen again.

What about memory?

Storage?
BNelson
Posted 9/23/2016 5:16 PM (#831207 - in reply to #831206)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting





Location: Contrarian Island
have you eaten a bucktail when you are hungry?

Edited by BNelson 9/23/2016 5:20 PM
apeoples
Posted 9/23/2016 5:27 PM (#831210 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 36


Location: Stone Lk Wi
Why do I keep opening this thread?
Reelwise
Posted 9/23/2016 5:32 PM (#831211 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 1636


Muskellunge, like us, have instinct. Muskellunge have obviously carried an instinct to feed from a young age to where they get when they reach the point of you catching them on a bucktail.

Sure, we believe they should be eating fish... but, what do Muskellunge eat when they are too small to eat those fish you now believe are normal for them to eat? Probably anything that would fit in it's mouth... The idea that Muskellunge seize the opportunity to eliminate something within the environment that it may perceive as a threat exists also.

Who knows... I guess I'm not very smart in the sense that I actually believe that each fish sometimes requires something requires a unique approach in order to be caught - especially if you want to catch it multiple times throughout the season. I have not figured out every fish yet and I accept that it will not happen.

For all we know, Muskellunge may be thinking a bucktail is a super-giant insect!

So, what do you think about bucktails?

Edited by Reelwise 9/23/2016 5:34 PM
Reelwise
Posted 9/23/2016 5:38 PM (#831213 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 1636


A fish in a fish bowl vs a fish in the wild... in a raging stream.

Edited by Reelwise 9/23/2016 5:39 PM
Reelwise
Posted 9/23/2016 5:52 PM (#831216 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 1636


I just do not believe we should be leaving behind text that tells people that a high level of thinking or the want or need to figure things out in a variety of ways is unnecessary - or even a bad thing.

The best thing about Muskie fishing is that a lot of us live in different locations, fish different waters, prefer different baits, different ways to use baits, target different fish, as well as many other preferences. So, the best thing, to me - is everything about IT.

The Muskellunge is literally an 'Internal Target.'
mnmusky
Posted 9/23/2016 6:17 PM (#831218 - in reply to #831216)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Reel... your pasion is admirable...However, set down the bong for an hour.

Edited by mnmusky 9/23/2016 6:18 PM
Reelwise
Posted 9/23/2016 6:31 PM (#831221 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 1636


What happens after?
mnmusky
Posted 9/23/2016 6:40 PM (#831222 - in reply to #831221)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




If memory serves me correctly... A sack of funions and a long nap.
apeoples
Posted 9/23/2016 9:41 PM (#831235 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 36


Location: Stone Lk Wi
Mushrooms and dope no.... Meth binge maybe
Reelwise
Posted 9/23/2016 10:16 PM (#831236 - in reply to #828528)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 1636


You guys obviously have more experience than I do. I would rather not put something in my body with the thought that my memory and projections may be altered in a negative fashion. At least not until I buy a house and put 5 swimming pools in the backyard with a few Muskellunge in all of them. Would be cool to film their intellectual activity in a controlled environment to see if we can come up with some patterns that work every single time. Realistically, though... An entire lifetime on Lake St. Clair would probably be the best option as far as a natural place to figure out the whys and wheres with the most relevant comparisons possible.

I still believe that Muskellunge are smart... I just do not believe they have a high storage capacity. Memory is just too hard to delete - which is why some of us may believe they are not very smart... All due to the fact that most of them all behave in similar ways and like Brad said - must eat to survive.

We must do the same things ourselves...

John23
Posted 9/23/2016 11:32 PM (#831237 - in reply to #831236)
Subject: Re: Inside out casting




Posts: 46


Fish are basically plants with fins. They respond to their environment and that's about it.
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