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Muskie Fishing -> General Discussion -> The dismantling of the MN muskie program?
 
Message Subject: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?
Cfollow
Posted 4/7/2016 7:56 AM (#812984)
Subject: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?


Let's assume the worst, that the current proposed legislation passes. I assume the next logical steps these lake associations take is to try and halt all current muskie stocking stocking. Will they be successful in dismantling the entire program?
jonnysled
Posted 4/7/2016 8:01 AM (#812985 - in reply to #812984)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
this current legislation is limited to a 6 lake group, correct? so it is lake specific which would leave open any other opportunities to be established hopefully a more strategic level??

wanna prove a point to the MN Legislature as a group? go show Garrison, MN that you can carry their economy with musky and smallie fishing and put your money where your mouth is.

Edited by jonnysled 4/7/2016 8:06 AM
Espy
Posted 4/7/2016 8:12 AM (#812988 - in reply to #812984)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 323


Location: Elk River, MN
Yes currently it is specific to these 6 lakes, but the bigger problem is that if this passes it sets a precedent for all other groups that want to swing their bags of cash around and bully the DNR. One of the main influences behind this bill is the head of the Pelican Lake association; Pelican already has Muskies, this bill doesn't do anything for "his" lake, but what it does do is gets him a giant foot in the door to continue onto the next step of having stocking stopped all together.
Cfollow
Posted 4/7/2016 8:12 AM (#812989 - in reply to #812985)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?


I appreciate the sentiment regarding the economy surrounding Mille Lacs but this current anti-muskie effort has zero to do with any positive economic impact of muskie fishing. It is a "my lake" issue nothing more nothing less.
jonnysled
Posted 4/7/2016 8:21 AM (#812990 - in reply to #812989)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
answer me this ... why has there been no anti-crappie, sunfish, walleye, perch, bass legislation? and do you really truly hang your hat on the notion that some form of legislation against them is on the horizon??

if you do, i suggest either pulling your head out of the sand, jump in a cold lake or slap yourself because you are in a fog.
Cfollow
Posted 4/7/2016 8:27 AM (#812992 - in reply to #812990)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?


Sled. What are you yelling about? All the fish you speak of except the state fish don't get stocked.
My original question still stands. Will these anti -muskie groups be able to stop the current MN muskie stocking program?
jonnysled
Posted 4/7/2016 8:32 AM (#812994 - in reply to #812992)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
if they want people "off of their lake" ... they would be trying to get fishermen off of it. this is a musky issue ... they don't like them, are afraid based on a precedent called Mille Lacs and want protection for their heritage of lake life. all noble causes if you own lake property. they have a vested interest that is different than the traveling angler and put their money where their mouths are. i suggest a bit of empathy and a more strategic effort or consider yourselves about what folks currently think ...

ask 10 people (home owners) why they don't want muskies and you'll get a variety of answers ...

show up in droves to fish other species for a summer period and see what the response is? ... use some phriggin strategy as a group vs. trying to tell people your pit bull really is a sweet dog and your tats, flat-billed hats, loud music and saggy pants are really endearing.

learn what they really think of you ... then respond.
jonnysled
Posted 4/7/2016 8:34 AM (#812995 - in reply to #812984)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
how do you "yell" on an internet forum? ...
Kirby Budrow
Posted 4/7/2016 8:34 AM (#812996 - in reply to #812984)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 2255


Location: Chisholm, MN
http://www.twincities.com/2011/05/12/gov-mark-dayton-has-a-muskie-o...

Hopefully this guy will help.
jonnysled
Posted 4/7/2016 8:38 AM (#812997 - in reply to #812996)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
somebody ought to get him in a boat with them on Vermillion ... i suggest one of the gentlemen of our sport ...

good post Kirby ...
jonnysled
Posted 4/7/2016 8:49 AM (#812999 - in reply to #812992)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
Cfollow - 4/7/2016 8:27 AM

Sled. What are you yelling about? All the fish you speak of except the state fish don't get stocked.
My original question still stands. Will these anti -muskie groups be able to stop the current MN muskie stocking program?


looks to me like they stock a couple walleyes ... http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/lakefind/showreport.html?downum=11030500

they must value them ...


Edited by jonnysled 4/7/2016 8:50 AM
Kirby Budrow
Posted 4/7/2016 8:50 AM (#813000 - in reply to #812997)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 2255


Location: Chisholm, MN
jonnysled - 4/7/2016 8:38 AM

somebody ought to get him in a boat with them on Vermillion ... i suggest one of the gentlemen of our sport ...

good post Kirby ...


My wife sent him an email offering him my services
Cfollow
Posted 4/7/2016 9:05 AM (#813001 - in reply to #813000)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?


It's a muskie issue according to Sled and he would like to employ the" if we just love them they won't hate us" strategy. How is that working for Europe in the fight against ISIS? SMH.
BNelson
Posted 4/7/2016 9:09 AM (#813003 - in reply to #812984)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Location: Contrarian Island
I don't think the sky is falling yet but I agree with others that if this passes it opens pandoras box for guys like the dipsh*t on Pelican who hate muskies, have too much money, and nothing better to do except shoot geese in his yard (true story google it) to push the Rep in his area to get the musky stocking program stopped on "his" lake... what will the MN stocking program look like in 10 yrs? I honestly don't see it being better and maybe much worse than it is now... everyone that likes to musky fish even 1 hour a year should be writing and calling the Reps/Senators and the Governor of MN ...
jonnysled
Posted 4/7/2016 9:11 AM (#813004 - in reply to #813001)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
ok, as long as we're using generalities CFollow ... 'll me guess ... Trump supporter?

when you want something someone else doesn't want it's first important to understand your position in the negotiation. you act like you are perceived so don't be surprised when you get what you get. imagine the notion that 2 parties come together in a compromise for something both can live with ... especially if you represent the party that didn't hold any chips in the beginning? yah, that would suck.

sled's suggestion is to understand the issue at its core first and consider responding to it even if it means getting organized within the ranks ...

i'm going to guess you are a directed employee and not a managing employee?

spot-on Smelly!

Edited by jonnysled 4/7/2016 9:19 AM
Cfollow
Posted 4/7/2016 9:22 AM (#813006 - in reply to #813004)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?


A little off topic, but Sled is wrong on all counts.
My point is that muskies are the red herring and your point is that they are THE issue. I guess we just disagree. They don't want anyone on "their lake". They won't get the state to nuke the entire lake killing all the fish and keeping all fisherman off the lake and they like walleyes. Muskies are their easiest target to reduce traffic on "their" lakes. It really is that simple.
jonnysled
Posted 4/7/2016 9:25 AM (#813007 - in reply to #813006)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
go fish their walleyes in huge numbers and test the theory ... but, remember ... in your words, they don't stock walleyes, right?

i bet if i go there to walleye fish, they won't stop me ... in-fact, they put quite a bit of effort to recruit fishing tourism to the area specifically naming the lakes in question.

http://www.visitbrainerd.com/things-to-do/fishing/

i couldn't paint a better and more accurate picture of the typical musky fisherman if i tried ... thanks CFollow


Edited by jonnysled 4/7/2016 9:33 AM
sworrall
Posted 4/7/2016 9:29 AM (#813008 - in reply to #813001)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 32761


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Cfollow - 4/7/2016 9:05 AM

It's a muskie issue according to Sled and he would like to employ the" if we just love them they won't hate us" strategy. How is that working for Europe in the fight against ISIS? SMH.


That's ridiculous. ISIS? Not even close, you missed the entire target. Heck, you missed the shooting range on that one. That comment, if it was to be used against the muskie community, would do some damage.

It's about the fine art of negotiation and the use of PR and political influence. Regardless of what is assumed to be the end goal, your opposition has done an exceptional job of both by presenting the muskie stocking issue as the opening volley, and has the muskie community on the edge of over defensive; exactly the intent.

Knowing your opposition, understanding their motivation, intent and probable next steps in their 'program' clearly, and answering as ONE voice without defensive, rude, emotionally charged rhetoric while focusing strictly on the issues at hand is paramount.

There are some wildly obvious weak points in the anti-muskie crowd's current attack on stocking. I think the group representing the muskie community over there has done all they can to impress upon those they are recruiting on MuskieFIRST to join the debate that those issues can be presented and win the day IF presented well, in an organized and respectful manner, and without a ton of emotionally charged rhetoric. Remember, 'we' are not trying to change the anti-muskie lobby's mind YET, the emphasis is on effectively building real, sustained, factually supported strong opposition within the lawmaking community to the current bills.


Right now it IS all about muskie stocking. That's the debate, that's the proposed legislation, and anything beyond that is secondary to the resolution..one way or the other... of this issue.

Are 'we' losing this one? Right now, I'd say it's a possibility, and there's your sign.
14ledo81
Posted 4/7/2016 9:39 AM (#813012 - in reply to #812995)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 4269


Location: Ashland WI
jonnysled - 4/7/2016 8:34 AM

how do you "yell" on an internet forum? ...


THIS IS HOW YOU "YELL" ON AN INTERNET FORUM!!!
Cfollow
Posted 4/7/2016 9:42 AM (#813013 - in reply to #813012)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?


The only strategy that works is having more power and influence which comes with having the most money. All the other unified voice, sound science and reason stuff is great but it won't work. I think MN muskie fishing is in real trouble. I hope I am wrong.
sworrall
Posted 4/7/2016 9:47 AM (#813015 - in reply to #812984)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 32761


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Not even close to true, there's a better than 50/50 chance of winning the day if the debate is handled well.

Self fulfilling prophesy, if that's how the MN muskie community wants it, though.
MOJOcandy101
Posted 4/7/2016 10:14 AM (#813021 - in reply to #812999)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 705


Location: Alex or Alek?
jonnysled - 4/7/2016 8:49 AM

Cfollow - 4/7/2016 8:27 AM

Sled. What are you yelling about? All the fish you speak of except the state fish don't get stocked.
My original question still stands. Will these anti -muskie groups be able to stop the current MN muskie stocking program?


looks to me like they stock a couple walleyes ... http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/lakefind/showreport.html?downum=11030500

they must value them ...


Sled you missed what he said, "all the fish except the state fish" our state fish is the walleye.
jonnysled
Posted 4/7/2016 10:22 AM (#813022 - in reply to #813021)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
got it ... yah.

so, organize and go in droves to gull lake and fill the ramps ... find out if they want you on "their" lake or not.
dfkiii
Posted 4/7/2016 10:50 AM (#813028 - in reply to #813001)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Location: Sawyer County, WI
Cfollow - 4/7/2016 9:05 AM

It's a muskie issue according to Sled and he would like to employ the" if we just love them they won't hate us" strategy. How is that working for Europe in the fight against ISIS? SMH.


Comparing musky fishermen and ISIS ? Hmmmm...

Maybe it's not so far fetched. There seems to be a marked increase in adoption of fishing hijab (buffs, to most of you) and there are more than a few that behave like terrorists out on the water. Maybe the lakefront owners are on to something.
sworrall
Posted 4/7/2016 10:53 AM (#813030 - in reply to #813028)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 32761


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
dfkiii - 4/7/2016 10:50 AM

Cfollow - 4/7/2016 9:05 AM

It's a muskie issue according to Sled and he would like to employ the" if we just love them they won't hate us" strategy. How is that working for Europe in the fight against ISIS? SMH.


Comparing musky fishermen and ISIS ? Hmmmm...

Maybe it's not so far fetched. There seems to be a marked increase in adoption of fishing hijab (buffs, to most of you) and there are more than a few that behave like terrorists out on the water. Maybe the lakefront owners are on to something.


Then again, maybe not. Ridiculous.
VonBraun
Posted 4/7/2016 11:23 AM (#813037 - in reply to #813030)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?




Posts: 172


This is what we are up against guys:
"There is a whole ecosystem out there that's already being messed with with Zebra Mussels. Also, Muskies eat baby Loons. That alone is reason enough not experiment with more MN lakes simply to cater to Musky fishermen."

"If people are yelling, as Paul Hartman says, it is the muskie fishermen who are hollering in the DNR's ears! The majority of fishermen surveyed by the DNR opposed stocking muskies in the proposed lakes. There are plenty of muskies in the Mississippi River, Mille Lacs, and other lakes. We do not need to stock new lakes and put their eco-systems at risk in order to cater to the whims of an entitled group of anglers who want to catch big fish."

The top 2 comments on this article:
http://www.startribune.com/muskie-expo-rolls-into-st-paul-as-lawmak...

The problem is there are enough musky fisherman that act like pricks out on the lake. We as a group need to act better and call out the pricks, so as to not let them smear all of us.
jonnysled
Posted 4/7/2016 11:28 AM (#813041 - in reply to #813037)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
^Bingo
thescottith
Posted 4/7/2016 11:35 AM (#813044 - in reply to #813041)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?




Posts: 444


The star tribune comments don't say Muskie fisherman are bad or evil? Bingo?
They are expressing misguided concerns, It is from my experience once someone believes something, it is really difficult to change there mind. No matter how much science or fact you offer up.
Also, you expect all muskie fisherman to be perfect? you will always have bad apples in every bunch, Muskie Fisherman, Walleye fisherman, Cops, priests....etc.
People are People and a perfect group doesnt exist.... Dream for Utopia all you want...it will never happen....
sworrall
Posted 4/7/2016 11:56 AM (#813046 - in reply to #812984)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 32761


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Self fulfilling prophesy, then? Or do we have an alternative? Read that article, and look at the quote from our camp.
jonnysled
Posted 4/7/2016 12:00 PM (#813048 - in reply to #813046)
Subject: Re: The dismantling of the MN muskie program?





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
yet
the walleye group
the crappie group
the sunfish group
the bass group
the priests
the cops

will all hit Gull Lake and enjoy the fishery this coming season. if all are the same, then why is the musky and the musky group being denied?

you really believe it's because they want to close the ramp to anyone but lake home owners?
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