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Posts: 20
| After a week of cold weather surface temps are down to 70 from a high of right around 80 in SE Wisconsin. Should I be working more shallow now instead of the deeper breaks or stay deep? This is my first fall musky fishing any tips would be great! |
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Posts: 1969
| goanna depend on the lake but in general as water temps fall into the mid to upper 60's @ end of Aug/ early September there is a very good shallow bite on a lot of lakes. Blades fast! 
Edited by IAJustin 8/27/2015 10:46 AM
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Location: Contrarian Island | let the fish tell you what speed they want..  buds were burning blades last weekend in minny only to hear that slower blades were catching fish all over the lake they were on...they slowed down their retrieve and got a few to go... I would look shallow first as well tho...topwater, like Choppers and metallic sounding baits like rough runners can shine after a cold front
Edited by BNelson 8/27/2015 10:49 AM
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Posts: 20
| Thanks guys, it's supposed to cloud up this afternoon so top waters are gonna get some swim time. Probably will start with a bucktail and switch to the top water around sunset |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Shallow or deep? Yes.
I think you will find fish in both places, but I would just about guarantee that a decent number of fish will be moving to weedlines and other classic structure.
I usually find a pretty good double 10 bite end of August/Early September. Most of the time now I'm fishing them at a moderate-fast speed. Keep your eyes peeled and expect a fairly high percentage to follow but also eat in the 8.
Might not really kick in for another week, but the water temps are probably in the right range for this pattern to get going. My experience anyway. Topwater can be good too, and can be great on stained flowage type water. |
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Posts: 523
| Shallow with blades has been good through this cool period. It's supposed to warm up a bit tho the next few days/ week. Not quite fall yet, but getting there... |
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Posts: 20
| Yea I saw almost 90 next week for a couple days. Hopefully that's short lived I'm ready for the cooler weather! I've been banging my head for the last month fishing deep with nothing to show. |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Anyone ever been able to explain this "push" you see into shallow water when the water temps drop - from the perspective that the shallow water cools even more quickly? Or are most of you saying that later on into the day and in the evening, the water which is now cooler than it was a week ago, at least warms up on a daily basis more than the deeper water and that is why the fish are shallow? Long story short - do you find them shallow even right away in the morning and for the first few hours, considering that the shallow water this time of year is probably cooler than elsewhere after the cool nights we've been having? |
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Posts: 1969
| I don't think muskies are very smart, they just use there instincts.... IMO -they slide shallow early fall because of preferred water temps (in some cases bait available too), but there is always something to eat in the 10-20 ft range so it isn't just bait.. If water warms up too much, (like what looks to happen in the next 5 days) - many of these ultra shallow fish will push out of the ultra skinny water and lay where they are comfortable...muskies are lazy for many hrs of the day!
Edit - they love 65-70 degree water so yes with correct conditions they are there in the morning..sometimes with their backs almost out of the water!
Edited by IAJustin 8/27/2015 12:33 PM
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Posts: 2274
Location: Chisholm, MN | Propster - 8/27/2015 12:14 PM
Anyone ever been able to explain this "push" you see into shallow water when the water temps drop - from the perspective that the shallow water cools even more quickly? Or are most of you saying that later on into the day and in the evening, the water which is now cooler than it was a week ago, at least warms up on a daily basis more than the deeper water and that is why the fish are shallow? Long story short - do you find them shallow even right away in the morning and for the first few hours, considering that the shallow water this time of year is probably cooler than elsewhere after the cool nights we've been having?
I find that fish are definitely active in shallow with the dropping temps, including very early in the morning. I'm not so sure that more fish are shallow though. Maybe it's just that the fish that are shallow have been there all year and are just now turning on and showing themselves more? Just a thought. I find fish shallow all year, but catch more of them this time of year. Could be that there are more fish, but I just think they are more active...at least in Northern MN where the water doesn't get super hot. |
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Posts: 1969
| Kirby I think its both -many lakes get a push of fish shallow this time of year that most certainly aren't there in July and first part of August.... Especially on warm years... some fish will pull off the thermocline (mid-lake) and slide shallow. You get 50" + fish to move into reed beds that are less that 3' deep ..those fish aren't there in July most year, muskies really do like to be in comfortable water if possible especially big fish... |
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Location: Contrarian Island | if you go into the musky biology forum, thermal considerations thread, there is some info they prefer 71 degree water |
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Posts: 2274
Location: Chisholm, MN | IAJustin - 8/27/2015 12:55 PM
Kirby I think its both -many lakes get a push of fish shallow this time of year that most certainly aren't there in July and first part of August.... Especially on warm years... some fish will pull off the thermocline (mid-lake) and slide shallow. You get 50" + fish to move into reed beds that are less that 3' deep ..those fish aren't there in July most year, muskies really do like to be in comfortable water if possible especially big fish...
Oh yeah, I agree those big ones aren't in the bull rushes in mid summer. But there are on the weed lines on the breaks. So shallow is relative. And yeah, those open water fish definitely move shallow in the fall, but lots of them stay out there too. So yeah, the right answer is both. |
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Posts: 1969
| Kirby I think I'm referring even shallower... stuff like: inside weed edges, sand, reeds...stuff less than 6' deep ..there are always fish on the outside weed edge and suspenders, yes..what make early fall unique is the tendency for some very nice fish to get in very skinny water ..where they normally don't setup in July.... My saying "both" referred to yes there are shallow fish on classic spots , these fish also show activity in the early fall cool down, but there is a push of fish to what most would consider non-tradition mid-summer spots too.. I'm talking catching 4 footers out of 12-18" of water on some lakes. You can even get in the reeds sometimes and see them laying there... I fish deep a lot... first couple of weeks of Sept. can be interesting for crazy shallow fish. |
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Posts: 2274
Location: Chisholm, MN | I'll buy that Justin! |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Did somebody ask for a theory? I've got theories.... Fish Thermoregulate... and when the water temps drop they will seek out microhabitats that provide them the most stable water temperature. On a calm, cool night the cooler surface water sinks... and the warmer middle layer rises. This puts the warmest and most stable water temperature at the surface in the shallow areas of the lake. I believe this is "chaos" of sinking, cooling water that begins to break up the basin (thermocline) is what pushes some of those clean, untouched basin dwellers up into super skinny water this time year. After the big cold front and large temp drop we just saw here in the Midwest... the fish will be in recovery mode... which in this case will mean swimming up shallow. I may need to take a few vacation days.... |
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Posts: 1828
| What do you guys think about a major warm-up (like we're about to see this weekend into early next week) that immediately follows a cold snap (like we just experienced a few days ago)? |
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Posts: 1828
| jlong - 8/27/2015 2:27 PM
Did somebody ask for a theory? I've got theories.... Fish Thermoregulate... and when the water temps drop they will seek out microhabitats that provide them the most stable water temperature. On a calm, cool night the cooler surface water sinks... and the warmer middle layer rises. This puts the warmest and most stable water temperature at the surface in the shallow areas of the lake. I believe this is "chaos" of sinking, cooling water that begins to break up the basin (thermocline) is what pushes some of those clean, untouched basin dwellers up into super skinny water this time year. After the big cold front and large temp drop we just saw here in the Midwest... the fish will be in recovery mode... which in this case will mean swimming up shallow. I may need to take a few vacation days....
So you're saying that the upper portions of the water column begin to mix as air temps drop considerably below surface temps. Then the fish follow that favorite-temp-water where it goes, which is up.
I would like to see a real-time temp profile (vs depth) of some popular MN musky lake. I remember seeing a link to one for some WI lake a while back. Might search it out. |
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Posts: 44
Location: Ohio | jaultman - 8/27/2015 2:47 PM
What do you guys think about a major warm-up (like we're about to see this weekend into early next week) that immediately follows a cold snap (like we just experienced a few days ago)?
I would speed lures up a bit in this situation and go back to the fish's summer pattern a little more. |
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Posts: 20
| Glad to see all the info but it's making my last 2 hours at work go really slow especially when I look out and see the boat hooked to the truck. Can't wait to hit the water and see if I can make it happen tonight! |
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Posts: 39
| From the 16th to the 24th, I've witnessed a 25 degree swing in surface temps, 84-59. I am not finding many fish, but I've caught them trolling in 20ft, and casting in 2, so they appear to be all over |
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Posts: 365
| All fish follow their preferred forage ,,,, thats how they eat and live --- jimjimjim
PS --- thats why we have our food IN the house --- |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | jimjimjim - 8/27/2015 8:33 PM
All fish follow their preferred forage ,,,, thats how they eat and live --- jimjimjim
PS --- thats why we have our food IN the house ---
I like my food in the house because it's comfortable there. I go to where it is because I need it, then come back. Comfort rules. If the temperature feels better elsewhere, that's where muskies are. They can find something to eat anywhere. |
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| jlong nailed a big part of it! On Tonka its not about forage. There is food everywhere all the time. I keep some of my food in the fridge at home and some at McDonald's and some at Wendy's and even some at Kwik Trip, when I'm really desperate! Animals seek consistency/homeostasis. It's the same reason they head deep, seemingly inexplicably, post spawn. Also, even though the shallow water cools fastest, the earth holds heat and the sun can warm quickly in the am. |
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Posts: 390
| I do a lot of perch spearfishing and I have noticed that the perch move very shallow around september 3-5 fow. The rest of the summer we normally find them much deeper 7-20 fow. Not sure if this is why muskies move shallow, but just something I noticed. |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | I agree with Reef Hawg. However, combine bbeaupre's perch observation and you have the best of both worlds. Food in a comfort location. Find that... and I bet you'll have even better success. |
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Posts: 20
| Well nothing in the boat last night, I had a northern take a swipe at my bucktail and miss but not much else. I did see a nice musky 40"+ laying on the bottom in 6' of water. I had my head lamp on looking for the inside weed edge after dark and saw her so I drifted away and tried to get a strike but no luck. |
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Posts: 44
Location: Ohio | jlong - 8/28/2015 7:38 AM
I agree with Reef Hawg. However, combine bbeaupre's perch observation and you have the best of both worlds. Food in a comfort location. Find that... and I bet you'll have even better success.
Also some bait fish have a fall spawn. Not sure if that's the case with perch or the fish on your lake, but that can drive the baitfish up shallower as well. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | jlong - 8/28/2015 7:38 AM
Food in a comfort location. Find that... and I bet you'll have even better success.
You bet, and what makes the upcoming period fun. I had a conversation with a friend while fishing an alaska thermal situation a few weeks ago, and another friend last night re: muskies, concerning how these critters will move in a seemingly extremely short period of time and show up in these places. What we'd all really like to know is just how far, how fast. Good discussion. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | This pattern seems to be starting. Fishing clear cisco waters this weekend, I had a 39.75 and 45.5 on a Double 10 Spanky on Saturday evening. The 39 maybe 30 minutes before moon rise, and the 45 just minutes after.
Yesterday evening my wife had a 43 and 40.25 on a double 9 Spanky, between about 5:30-6:00. All fish came off weeds/weedlines. Surface temps were about 68 for the most part.
Tucker
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