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Posts: 331
Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | Wondering if any of you are having problems with the Xi5 in Navagation (auto pilot) mode.
After spending a couple weeks on lotw with my new Xi5 I was very dissapointed to say the least.
The unit would work fine about 40% of the time but when it would act up it was useless and even dangerous! Imagine working around wind blown points or reefs at half power or more casting away and then have the trolling motor turn 90 degrees left or right instantly, almost throwing you out of the boat! Biggest problem I experienced was delayed or no response from steering inputs from the pedal. You would tap the pedal to make a minor course adjustment while in Nav mode and nothing would happen, tap again and nothing, tap again and then the motor would spin around three times. When this would happen you had no steering control from either the pedal or the remote. The only way to regain steering control was to go back to manual. Very frustrating!! Other times in Nav mode the trolling motor would keep walking right regardless of how many times you made a course adjustment left. For the most part it was like it was possessed in Nav mode.
I talked to motor guide and they said they know about the problem. Apparently the wireless pedal and the remote are sending steering signals to the motor at the same time and the motor doesn't know what command to follow. I tried re-calibrating on the water (keel and compass) several times and new batteries in the pedal and remote without any improvement.
I guess the biggest disappointment is that the Motor Guide service tech wanted me to go back on the water and trouble shoot the problem for him. Then after taking it in to a service center all they were going to do was re-calibrate it as a first step.
I love the other features of the Xi5 such as anchor lock and how fast and quiet the unit is. That's why it's frustrating to have such terrible performance in nav mode as it's what most musky fishermen use.
Please don't take this as me slamming on Motor Guide, just wondering if others are having the same issue and if so did Motor Guide help in fixing the issue?
Thanks!
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Location: Not far enough north! | I have learned this happens when you try to make manual adjustments when running a route. You have to exit auto mode otherwise the gps gets confused. I guess I saw this as operator error on my part for giving he system multiple commands. How can it follow a route when I'm telling it to go somewhere else. I only use auto pilot on simple structures or when wind is light. Wouldn't trust my skeg to auto pilot in rough conditions... |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | do folks really expect a trolling motor to be in control of a boat in high winds around reef complexes? seriously just wondering ... no way would i expect that out of any trolling motor. i mean fishing has become easy with advances in electronics but that doesn't take boat control completely out of our hands ... does it?, or should it? i would expect what is being described by Rick ... others?? |
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Location: Not far enough north! | I had a hard time getting away from my tour series but I do like the the xi5. This is my second year with it and so far so good. The anchor and jog features were worth the switch. Still have the tour series if thing go awry. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | were you able to use the same universal mount on the xi5 as is on your tour series? i have a tour series and a cable i switch and/or use for backup and want to get an xi5 but not lose the ability to have a spare. |
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Location: Not far enough north! | I have not tried the new mounting bracket on the tour series yet. it was on the plans for last winter but fell to the back burner and never got it done. I have them wired with the same plugs and carry mounting bolts in the boat for the tour. In a pickle I could mount it up in a half hour or so to save the trip. Not ideal I plan on having the quick attach on both. Looking at the tours mount I believe all that would be needed is an aluminum plate about 8"x16" so you could get it on the quick mount |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | you would think they could make it easy for us ... wish the xi5 had the rope stow and deploy too. |
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Location: Not far enough north! | Yep me too. It took a little to get used to no rope |
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Posts: 331
Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | SLED I totally understand what you are saying. but if you spend $1600 for a trolling motor and the foot pedal doesn't steer the trolling motor what's the point of having a Pedal? or for that matter autopilot they should just keep making trolling motors that only have a manual mode. I was merely asking if anyone else had the same problems and if they did what did Motor Guide do to fix the problem? it's obvious that the musky forums that I left many years ago have not changed one bit.
its really sad when you have to stop and think about how you're going to ask a question, who it might offend, or how it's going to be taken in a totally different direction then what was intended, before you even ask the question.
Never mind. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | if you're in a wind/wave condition with a trolling motor on auto it will do exactly what you describe ... constantly over-correct because it can't keep up with what is going on, no different than they did with just trying to keep a straight course.
what "direction" did it go? the xi5 is a product lots of people are interested in. the farmer has been good to help people who are interested in it not just here but on another great thread earlier this spring. he answered your question, i agreed and am interested in the xi5.
throwing boards/me under your bus is a good way to handle it ...
Edited by jonnysled 7/28/2015 10:49 PM
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Posts: 331
Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | Sled, I started my last post saying that I understand with what you and farmer are saying in regards that we should not rely on auto pilot in high wind, asking allot. As Farmer said he uses it in light wind around simple structure. Well regardless of what wind or structure my unit performs poorly. So the question was for those who actually own Xi5's to see how their units were performing in Nav mode.
I have been a MINN KOTA guy my whole life and thought the AP function was pretty good on those units. Power drive and Terrova I have many hours using, so I have a baseline of performance to compare the Xi5 with. I went with the Xi5 this year because I was sold on the fact that it was better than the Terrova. In some ways it is better as far as noise reduction and steering response in manual and anchor lock is great!
As far as the negatives....you cannot go into Navigation (auto pilot) without the use of the hand held remote. So you have to use the remote to select Nav mode and then use the wireless foot pedal or remote to steer. I prefer to use the pedal to steer so I can use my hands to cast and retrieve and be more efficient working structure. So this brings me back to the original problem and reason for the post. The wireless pedal and the hand held remote can steer the motor in manual or Nav mode. Because both devises are sending a signal to the trolling motor at the same time the motor gets confused and starts acting possessed. When I called Motor Guide they said they were aware of the issue and it was related to a batch of serial numbers and they were working on a fix. I took my motor to a Motor Guide service center the other day and they said they fixed it by installing a software upgrade. So seeing as I just talked to Motor Guide and they said they were working on a fix and a couple days later the service center tells me it's fixed....I wanted to see if other Xi5 owners were having the same issue and what was done to fix it?
Regardless of whether I operate it in high, moderate or no wind it fails to the point the Nav mode is useless. Imagine working a shoreline in Nav (AP) with no wind and the trolling motor spins around three times uncomanded until the cord is all wrapped up. Or half speed no wind and it turns uncomanded instantly 90 degrees to the right. If you are bent over doing a figure 8 you can see how it could cause you to lose your balance and fall in the lake. Or you are in Nav mode at a very low speed and wind or no wind you loose all steering control from both the pedal and the remote. Do you get my point? I had much better performance out of the Power Drive and Terrova. Agreed that in high winds no motor is going to perform well but in no wind, or moderate wind it should work... at least work a little considering I paid $1600 for it.
Other negatives that should be mentioned about the Xi5 that need re-engineering. Hand held remote has no digital display. Would be nice to look at the remote to know what power setting you are at or if the prop is spinning. Unit is very quiet and sometimes hard to know if prop is spinning. There is a LED on the base that indicates when the prop is turning but if your guiding or fishing from the back you can't see it. If fishing in the dark the handheld, pedal and trolling motor head nave no lights or back lighting, hard to set what's going on at night. Would also be nice to have the capability to turn the Nav mode on/off from the pedal. If you forget your hand held remote you are limited to manual mode only. Last thing is that the wireless foot pedal is touchy when making small steering changes and takes some getting use to.
With that said....I am very impressed with the fast steering response, quietness and the anchor lock/ jog feature, it is incredible when compared to the Terrova.
Sled sorry for throwing you under the bus, I guess my frustration with the lack of performance from (my) Xi5 got the better of me. I really hope they did fix my Nav issue as I really don't want to go back to a Terrova.
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i hope farmer chimes in more ... lots of great information. i'm going to be over at the MG service center in Shakopee tomorrow to pick up my primary tour series. i'm going to ask a lot of questions because i want to go to an xi5. posts like this really help to understand the pros and cons. the main thing i'd heard previously (i think from Rick) was that you had to make sure to remove batteries after use which is an easy inconvenience. that and wishing it was a rope stow/deploy and use the same mount base were my only concerns to this point. sounds like there's more to learn. thanks for elaborating ... you didn't have to and its appreciated. it is a lot of money to put into a trolling motor. |
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Posts: 331
Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | Actually compared with the power drive and terrova I think the Xi5 deploys and stows rather easily, happy with how much better it is.
When I talked with the MG service tech he wanted me to take my boat out and trouble shoot the issue by removing the batteries from the foot pedal. I had to take my boat in for service so didn't have the chance to do that.
MG customer service has been very good and seem to be working with my service center to resolve the issue.
I was more interested I guess in finding out whether I have a lemon or if this is common with the Xi5. In doing a web search I found some bass forums with the same problem I was having, and it seems after replacing the trolling motor it fixed the problem.
I hope they improve the remote to include some of the features that the Terrova hand held remote has, time will tell.
Kind of makes me wonder if pro staff were given the chance to ring out the Xi5 before release to the public?
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Posts: 296
| I switched from a Terrova to an Xi5 this year and after my 2 week canada trip and fishing local since May I have used it enough to form some opinions. I haven't used nav mode yet. I did use autopilot on my terrova on occasion but I only used the compass based one which gets good reviews but not the advanced gps based one that has very mixed reviews. Nav mode on the xi5 is gps based and I wonder if that is the issue? On the terrova it didn't really care if you adjusted the course manualy. It just sort of wondered back the other way. Which is a nice feature for how we fish usually. The fancy software needed to follow a perfectly straight path in wind following gps trails requires big turns. Just like we would do manually.
Anybody use the advanced autopilot on the terrova? Does it do the same thing if you tried to manually adjust course?
The remote is a bit silly not having a display but the mini no display remote for the terrovas are selling like hot cakes and guys like them. The MG remote is cheaper than the MK remote but they should offer one with a display.
Occasionally after no button presses or steering changes for a while mine has a short delay from the foot pedal. Never experienced that with the remote while fishing for other fish. I only use the pedal when musky fishing. I think the pedal is a bit silly and don't understand why these companies think a heel/toe electric steer pedal makes any sense but they both have it... I turn mine side ways and it works ok. Plenty of accidental momentary presses when turning to the right but I did that all the time with the terrova trying to hit the tiny buttons with my 13s.... I bought heavy duty springs for the pedal on Mike Hulbert's recommendation and will install sooner or later. The spot lock is without a doubt superior to the I-pilot terrova I had. But that one was absolutely just fine for my needs too.
The stow and deploy is a bit tougher than a terrova because it is 2 stage but I like that as the chances of an accidental deploy into the drink are greatly reduced. Seems to be a bit more affected by dust/rain/drying out etc than the MK but the terrova didn't really care for dust either.
It absolutely is a better motor from a turning speed and quietness perspective. The 1st time I ran it through a flooded farmyard in SD I was amazed. That was a scary proposition on a windy day with the terrova. I am willing to bet it can do a 180 degree turn 3-5 times faster than a terrova. Still not a cable steer but for my fishing I will take standing flat footed and a motor that doesn't move on its own while off the pedal any day. Ran up over plenty of shallow rocks and stumps this year to get snags out. Instead of holding a rope and running with your foot you hold the motor up with one hand and run the remote or pedal with the other. More of a 2 man operation for sure but not too bad. If that is your main reason for staying with a cable steer you are missing out on a lot of other benefits. The thing that sets the Terrova I-pilot and xi5 apart from all other tms is the spot lock buttons. In wind or current that feature is nothing short of incredible with a fish in the net or if you just wanna fish a spot hard.
I do have some long term durability reservations but there is nothing but time to show how durable they are. Hulbert switched but he fishes more in one season than I do in about 3-4. |
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| NickD - 7/29/2015 11:00 AM
Anybody use the advanced autopilot on the terrova? Does it do the same thing if you tried to manually adjust course?
In my experience, iPilot's Advanced Autopilot plots a straight-line sequence of waypoints in the direction the motor is pointing when you engage it. If you use either the fob or the foot pedal to change the direction, a new series of waypoints in that new heading are plotted, cancelling all the old points.
See p 52 in the iPilot Owner's Manual:
http://www.minnkotamotors.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=1451 |
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Location: Not far enough north! | Ed,
I thought about this today while in the tractor. I run several gps units for auto steer in my tractors and think I know what the problem is. Could just be signal reliability. Our Ag systems kick off automatically when signal strength is too low to accurately steer the machine. I have the ability to monitor number of satellites and HDOP which is essentially signal accuracy. When signal strength is low steering really can start to wander along the line and pass to pass accuracy goes way down. When driving along a tree line I lose signal all together. Sometimes in the evening when sun is descending it screws things up too. These trolling motors have a much smaller antenna than the Ag systems with none of the safety's systems. Every once in a while the steering goes haywire in the middle of a field and I have to disengage it manually. This is always in conjunction with a bad signal... I'm heading to LOTW in a couple weeks and will really put the auto steer to a test and pay more attention to what happens with it through the week.
Edited by Farmer Rick 7/29/2015 4:44 PM
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Posts: 1086
Location: Hayward, WI | Here is what I have been hearing from a few of my customers with an Xi5:
xi5 - really wish it had a screen on the remote, almost too fast of steering, works well when linked to Lowrance Gen3, kind of quirky at times, foot pedal is poorly designed, foot pedal is too light and can blow out of boat, very quiet, good battery life, stow and deploy work good |
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Posts: 331
Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | hey Rick I hope you have better luck with it on Lake of the Woods than I did. I spent 16 days up there and that is where I had all of my issues. I did wonder if all of the islands and rock was preventing a strong signal strength and thus causing all of my problems. but after talking to motor guide it sounds like it's more of an issue with the trolling motor receiving two inputs at once. if you encounter the kind of problems I had up there. try it after removing the batteries from the foot pedal and see if it resolves itself.
thank you for your input much appreciated and I wish you the best of luck on Lake of the Woods!
Ed |
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Location: Not far enough north! | I will surely report back when I'm home. I don't remember having much trouble with it last year up there but it was real windy all week so didn't have much tome to use it up there. Around home here it's mostly anchor and straight lines... |
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Posts: 437
| MuskyTime, I am nearing the completion of the second full season with my xi5 and I absolutely love it. I spent two weeks in Canada on Lake of the Woods and we had some very windy conditions. I use Heading Lock and Cruise control ALL the time and NEVER once had the issue you described. I tried creating a route once and that was an interesting journey, but that was because I went off of memory of how to do it rather than reading the instructions I had placed in the glove compartment first.
When you say "Nav" mode are you referring to Heading lock or are you navigating a route?
My thoughts on the remote are this, its simple and does what is needed. Before I installed my Gateway connect to my Lowrance Touch unit I was easily able to determine the speed setting by hitting cruise control ONCE (speed defaults to 1.0mph) up arrow or down arrow 1 time = .1 MPH change. So, I wanted to go .8 MPH, I hit cruise control button on remote, then down arrow 2x. I could verify speed by looking at the GPS I had at the bow as well.
If you don't like to deal with a remote already and its a tiny one I don't see how adding a display to the remote is going to be more preferable.
If you have a Lowrance unit I suggest getting the Gateway. Its the cat's meow. Everything you want to do with the motor is on a large display and right at your finger tips. Set the speed (either MPH or Prop %), course, anchor point, etc super easy.
I prefer the remote over the foot pedal, but I could see how guys do not like it that prefer that method.
I had a remote going dead and that was causing me some frustrations because I forgot to bring extra batteries. Thankfully I had an extra remote and a foot pedal AND the Gateway connect so I could control my motor from all of those other options. |
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Posts: 331
Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | "If you have a Lowrance unit I suggest getting the Gateway. Its the cat's meow. Everything you want to do with the motor is on a large display and right at your finger tips. Set the speed (either MPH or Prop %), course, anchor point, etc super easy. "
That sounds like the way to go! If I upgrade Lowrance units this winter I will get the gateway. That would eliminate the need for the remote and limit the steering input to just the pedal.
I am thinking that many guys do not use the configuration that I do, use remote to set heading lock then use the remote pedal to make steering inputs.
Like I said I think my problem stems from a software glitch where the trolling motor cannot determine what steering command to follow.
To clear something up when I said Navigation mode I meant heading lock.
Never did try cruise.
If I can get the heading lock problem fixed it will be a great trolling motor! Everything else puts previous trolling motors to shame, unfortunately for me the heading mode is a big part of how I like to fish.
Thanks!
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Posts: 437
| I wonder if the pedal and the remote use the same frequency or something and there is a cross talk or interference like you can see on a sonar at times??? |
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Posts: 79
| have had mine since may. zero issues. never used the footpedal, only the remote. |
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Posts: 183
Location: Grand Forks ND | There is an update you can do to the MotorGuide, they can send you a FOB that you update with and send back. I think it had more to do with the GPS loosing signal, but when it does that it will also kick you out of autopilot.
I used a MotorGuide for a couple weeks this year as I was going to buy it from a friend, but decided to keep my Terrova.
Not having a compass-based autopilot was a major bummer for me. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Is the gateway compatible with gen 2, non touch units? |
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Posts: 183
Location: Grand Forks ND | Yes. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | MuskyManiac09 - 8/6/2015 2:41 PM
Yes.
Thanks! |
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Location: Not far enough north! | I did not get to use the navigation mode much last week like I thought I would. However once while running an old trail from last year it did act as you described. Motor spun around trying to correct itself. I still think this is a loss of gps signal and not a miss communication between pedal, remote, and motor. I will contact motor guide when I get a chance and talk with them... |
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Posts: 12
| I have an Xi5 and been running it all season. Switch from terrova specially so I could hook it to lowrance screens. Gateway is awesome. You can set it up so it shows heading and prop speed or mph on top of screen no matter what page you're on. I find that easier than the terrova as I am already looking at the lowrance and don't have to look at the remote to run it (once you learn where the buttons are). I do have trouble using the remote and foootpeda together though. I use remote most of the time as I like heading lock, and can't activate that on pedal. The problem I see is when I make a correction with the pedal, usually midcast, when its tough to use the remote. Sometimes I get a delay, sometimes it works fine, and once in a while it tries to spin around and around.... Overall though pretty happy with my change. One questions though, I think my prop shaft may be bent....do you guys see any change in noise or vibration when you go from 50% to say 100? Mine seems to really vibrate when I kick it down. |
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Posts: 457
Location: Minneconia | Musky time, I tried what you were doing with heading lock then making course corrections with the pedal, same results motor went crazy. Motorguide is sending me a FOB to reflash the computer, hope it works. Heading lock and correcting with foot pedal would definitely be my preferred use for musky casting applications if they can get it to work reliably. I did add a gateway to mine, I was steering my trolling motor from my HDS unit from the comfort of the drivers seat pulling leadcore for walts, pretty awesome. |
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