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Posts: 9
| Well I have made my first lot of baits. I have learned a lot through the basement baits sub forum.
I finally made it to the epoxying clear coating and am not pleased with my results. I am using E-tex and am not getting a smooth finish. It is wavy with some dimpling. I think I can remove the dimpling with a heat gun or quick swipe of the torch. I let the E-tex sit for about 10 mins to let some of the bubbles pop before applying.
What are the steps you guys take to apply expoxy and how many coats should I be doing?
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Posts: 360
| Did you put the baits on a rotating bait dryer? The dimples are probly bubbles you missed or a dust particle that landed on it while drying. Once the bait is dry a torch or heat gun will only ruin it. I put 3 coats of etex on my baits. Some guys do more some do less. Once I put the etex on I let my baits rotate for 10 minutes then blow on them to get rid of the bubbles. And remember the thinner the coat you put on the better |
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Posts: 411
Location: Waconia,MN | Did you use a bait turner? |
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Posts: 9
| Thanks. Yes I did put them on a turner. |
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Posts: 791
Location: WI | A few Jim's. How long did you wait after you painted the bait before you clearcoated? How many coats is that in the picture? What kind of brush did you use to apply to clearcoat? Were your hands potentially oily when handling the bait before clearcoat? In my experience all of these things could have a factor. By answering them you will help those of us who do this a lot and point your issues
Edited by Trophyseeker50 2/25/2015 7:52 PM
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Posts: 9
| I waited over a week before epoxy was applied.
There are 3 coats in the top picture and 2 in the bottom. The brush is essentially a 1" chip paint brush. That is a good point about handling the baits. I did not take any precautions with my hands. I didn't feel like my hands were oily/dirty but I guess it doesn't take much.
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Posts: 791
Location: WI | I would say all sounds good. Not sure about the brush but I will say I had some issues with those wood handled cheap bristle brushes in the past. I've had good luck with synthetic bristle brushes but now use acid brushes. They are 1/2". They work well and are cheap. And for the volume we do that's important.
I also had some issues early on that I believe had to do with some sort of contamination, so I wash my hands before every handling.
The other thing that is possible with uneveness, is that you may be applying the epoxy too light. There is a fine line between to heavy and too light. If it is too thin and you over brush it you tend to get areas where the clear pulls away. If too thick you can get humps( build up ) and you will typically see a bit of cloudy bubbling. I would try a different brush and apply just a bit heavier.
Edited by Trophyseeker50 2/25/2015 8:37 PM
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Posts: 411
Location: Waconia,MN | How long was it from the time you mixed the epoxy till the time you were done applying it. To me it looks like it didn't cure right, or was handled to long as it cured? And also how long did you mix it? |
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Posts: 411
Location: Waconia,MN | And for being 3 coats on the top one it looks to be mighty thin. I usually do. 2 to 3 coats and buy the time I'm done the screw eyes are half covered by epoxy. I agree with Andy, go heavier. |
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Posts: 9
| Thanks guys. Great info.
I mixed it for maybe a minute and it took about 15 to apply it to the 8 baits on my spinner.
As they spun on the spinner there were runs that a tried to brush out as they showed up. |
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Posts: 791
Location: WI | Good point Ryan. If you waited 10 minutes before applying, how many baits did you clear then? I mix for 2 minutes then let sit for 7 minutes ( timed). But I am doing 8 baits at a time. I've found that anymore time will result in the epoxy becoming what I consider to be a bit thick by the last bait. If you waited 10 min and do one bait you should be fine but if multiply you may be waiting to long.
I really think you are over applying too thin of a coat , if that makes sense. Meaning you are over brushing too thin of a coat. Don't try to pull the clear around on the bait. Keep just applying clear and blending.
Edited by Trophyseeker50 2/25/2015 9:01 PM
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Posts: 170
Location: Valparaiso , Indiana | What kind of motor are you using for your spinner? I was having the same problem with the rotisserie motor I use using. Most rotisserie motors don't have enough rotations per minute causing uneven clear coat. I got a new motor that spins at 7 RPM and that fixed the problem for me.
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Posts: 61
Location: Morgantown, WV | I had the same problems with ETex. It is very difficult to work with in my opinion. I switched to devcon 2 ton and I am very happy. It is much more foregiving and I don't even think a rotisserie is necessary. |
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Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | Everything you use requires a certain process...I've used Etex, Diamond2, Devcon, EX74 etc...I found one of the most important things for successful epoxy coating is the preparation. That includes room temperature and humidity as well as a completely cured, dry, smooth and clean surface you are applying on. And ALL of this takes a lot of trial and error and keep in mind, that different people head different results due to environment. Below is a list of things to try to help improve the process that has helped mine.
-Dry environment - run a de-humidifier
-Room temp from 65 to 70* best
-Allow paint to dry at least overnight (esp. water based)
-Do NOT handle painted bait with bare hands
-Thoroughly mix the epoxy for 2 mins (use a timer!)
-Be sure you have 2 equal parts or slightly more hardener
-Warm the epoxy in warm water for 15 minutes prior to mixing
-Apply Epoxy liberally...some epoxies allow for only one heavy coat.
-Use a small torch to remove any bubbles - don't get crazy with this...quick strokes over the entire bait is all you need and once is enough!
-Do not blow heat on the lures while on the turner...this causes the epoxy to stay more runny and inhibits scaling or separation spots...Once its on the bait and evenly covered, I put it on the turner at room temp to set up naturally...The quicker it tacks up, the better for you
Hope this helps.
~Paul
Edited by ShutUpNFish 2/26/2015 8:37 AM
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Posts: 9
| Excellent. Thanks everyone
I have a charbroil rotisserie. Not sure of the rpm. My spinner holds eight baits and I have it set up to spin them end over end which might also be causing runs and other problems. |
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Posts: 31
| Try this I see that you have a screw in the tail take it out and replace with a wood screw, now I brush on the etex making sure it is well mixed thats a must then I take my heat gun and shoot in into the mixing cup to get most of the bubbles out, then aftr brushing I hang my lure by its lip and let it drip off keeping it straight so that the etex drips down the screw, hit the lure with heat gun to remove bubbles, I make musky lures and I don't use any kind of a rotating device, pay attention for the first 15 minuts to make no more bubbles and wait till next day ends up really nice. |
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Posts: 260
Location: Almost Heaven | Get a box of nitrile gloves from Harbor freight to use instead bare hands. That will cure the oil/moisture from your hands. Static is another thing that is bad in the winter and plastic seems to be worse when mixing epoxy in it. The guys who do tons of baits have dealt with about everything there is, so thanks to them for posting their cures. |
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | Make sure you do not use wax coated cups to mix in as most epoxies do not like wax. |
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Posts: 50
Location: Madison, WI | Just out of curiosity, if wax coated cups are bad, and plastic cups are bad for mixing, what would you guys recommend as the optimal "container" to mix epoxy in when applying? |
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Posts: 528
| I use red solo cups. I try to mix enough to do my whole wheel which is 40 baits. The baits are generally 8" baits so I am mixing a lot of epoxy.
Reading through all the responses I find it amusing how different people do things. About half of the tips Listed I do the opposite. I feel my results are just as good as the person giving the tip results are just goes to show that once a person is comfortable with the process how much latitude can really be given. So understand that this process isn't set in stone. Play around with it and find your groove. |
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Posts: 1529
| we use dollar store shooter cups. there plastic no issues. I mix approx. 1 gallon of etex a month., buck store has stiks 200 fo a buck for mixing also. |
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Posts: 283
| An issue I had when starting out was inconsistency, 1/3 of the time it turned out good, then the other times it would either take a much longer to cure or remain tacky indefinitely.
I got some great tips on here to mix using exact volumes. I was mixing by weight and was shocked that it would make that much of a difference. I started using syringes and I saw an immediate difference. I typically only do 4-8 baits at a time so mixing the small batches can be tricky but the syringes helped greatly.
Good luck! |
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Posts: 321
Location: Glen Ellyn Il | I started doing baits four years ago, and one the toughest problem was clear coating, it was so bad I almost give up making baits. I watched and read all kinds of suggestion on clear coating. I put all that information in my head and here is what I was able to get a very easy way and get a really nice clear coating
your mix has to be measured with a syringe Period
Use a syringe that is made for epoxy, I use Flex Coat Syringes, DO NOT USE THE SYRINGES MADE FOR BABY FORMULA BAD NEWS. You will get fish eyes something about silicone, I believe I read that article from Flex Coat, Jan Net Craft has the syringes or Mud Hole
I use clear Solo Cups, Discard after every use
I use a 3/8" stencil brush from Home Depot I flatten the brush metal part with a pair of pliers, the bristle will fan out
VERY IMPORTANT NEVER TOUCH THE BRISTLE WITH YOUR HANDS. After I use the brush I put the brush inside a mason jar that is partially filled with ACETONE, when you get the brush out of the acetone just shake off the excess acetone in to the jar by tapping the rim, after you apply e-tex or some other epoxy just put the brush back in to the jar, do not worry about the e-tex on the brush the acetone will dissolve it. I have used the same brush now for about 3 years. Once every year I filter the acetone through coffee filters if I see particle in the jar, this system really works great
One of the biggest problems with air bubbles is the bait not being properly sealed, I found a product that the saltwater bait builder use and it's DEFT Sanding sealer I get it at Amazon, The second problem I found that by blowing warm air over the bait that increases the chance for air bobbles to come out from the wood and some dust particle from the air dryer I also moved my epoxy operation away from where I build the baits, you definitely need a dust free room
I mix the epoxy for two minutes and Flex coat recommends to stir SLOW so air bubbles are not introduced in to the mix, also I keep my e-tex at 67 to 70 degrees I store it near my furnace. a lot of builders wait to use the epoxy mix so the air comes out I do not I will brush it on right away , the secret to stir SLOW
To get air bubbles out and to get that professional; look I use the ALCOHOL burner that the rod guys use to get the air bubbles out, I have the one that you squeeze to get the flame out you can actually see how the epoxy gets all even, You can purchase it at Mud Hole
I hold my bait with a spring clamp usually from the end eye hook, the clamp is dedicated only for epoxy clear coating to make sure I do not pick up junk from the clamp. Never touch the bait with your bare hand , due to oil on our skin, I do not use gloves, but I am very careful not to touch the bait
Never try to brush off the bait to get dust off, if you have to make sure you use cotton like an old t-shirt that is dust free
Never try to clear the hook holes or any other hangar holes that will introduce all kinds of particle on your bait, now I clear all my holes after I am done clear coating.
Hopefully this will save you some head aches and enjoy your bait building, I know I do
Gino
Edited by spoonpluggergino 3/8/2015 11:27 AM
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Posts: 31
| Has anyone ever used Kleer Kote 6004 in a spray can. I use Etex for my musky lures but wood like to try this on some smaller baits and some plastice blanks that I am about to start painting. |
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