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Posts: 238
| Let's try this again. I see the last thread on this Wisconsin trolling topic got pulled. I'd like this thread to stay on topic and remain civil; but spirited is ok.  As previously stated and per my observation, this article - http://dnr.wi.gov/news/releases/article/?id=3221 - seems somewhat recent (the red 'EDITOR'S ADVISORY' at the top is dated 2/10/2015) despite the original May 28/2014 date at the top of the article. So, based ONLY WHAT YOU SEE IN THIS ARTICLE (link above), let's discuss. |
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Posts: 238
| Based on what I DIDN'T see in this article, the definition of trolling and/or position fishing has not been addressed or change. IMO, at the very least, the definition of both needs to be included along with the proposed rule change. These definitions - however YOU define them - has been in question EVERY TIME they've been re-written/clarified. |
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Posts: 238
| But, based on what I DID see in the article, the proposed rule change implies that 3-line trolling would be allowed in most of the state (in the 55 counties where trolling is currently permitted) while only 1-line trolling would be allowed on the water-bodies not allowing trolling currently (in the remaining 17 counties - those are listed in the article). This seems cut-and-dried and easy to understand - or does it... (Is it 1-line trolling or 1-line PERIOD?)
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Posts: 238
| The article DOES clearly stated our goal as muskie fisherman who would like to cast artificial lures while using suckers at the same time:
"One key goal of the proposal, sought by musky anglers, is to legalize the practice of trailing live bait behind a boat, while casting with another rod. Under current rules, trailing a sucker or other minnow behind the boat while under power, however briefly, is considered trolling."
But the article makes no mention about the impact of the proposed rule change in those water-bodies where 1-line trolling will be allowed. Optimistically, it may imply that in those 1-line trolling water-bodies, you can use 1 sucker per person with 2 suckers maximum per boat while at the same time allowing all boat occupants to cast. Is that a safe assumption? Or could the proposed rule change mean that in those water-bodies where 1-line trolling is allowed, you're only allowed 1-line PERIOD? And if that's the case it would imply 1 sucker per person with 2 suckers maximum per boat OR casting by each person in the boat (but NOT casting AND the use of a sucker by the same person). What about bluegill fishing. Would 2 or 3 rods per person be allowed on those 1-line trolling water-bodies as long as you're anchored (or drifting without the trolling motor deployed)? (That's a common practice by some panfisherman.)
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Posts: 238
| I really love the spring hearing advisory question #32 on page 51 (http://dnr.wi.gov/About/WCC/Documents/spring_hearing/2015/2015SpringQuestionnaire.pdf) which clearly states our desire to cast AND uses suckers at the same time.
Do you favor a rule change to allow the trolling of a sucker or other fish as bait while casting and retrieving with another line and using the aid of a motor statewide?
That rule inclusion alone would satisfy [maybe] the VAST majority of us. But that advisory question and the proposed rule change would then need verbiage that clearly communicates those proposals work together (and don't compete against each other.) |
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Location: oswego, il | 3 lines per angler your only "trolling" one of them. |
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Location: oconomowoc, wi | ToddM - 2/13/2015 12:40 PM
3 lines per angler your only "trolling" one of them.
"your"? |
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| As someone who finds it harder to fish for muskies every year, I would welcome trolling in Wisconsin. Right now I can troll all over WI with my disabled fishing license, but can only use an electric motor. I'd love to be able to troll in the fall, but I think that 3 lines is too many. Even 2 with one guy in the boat would be a fire drill, but if it means that you can cast a lure and drag a sucker, then 2 lines it is. I think that "Trollphobia" will win out anyway. Just like we value dragging suckers, we're afraid of trolling. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Beaver - 2/13/2015 5:12 PM
As someone who finds it harder to fish for muskies every year, I would welcome trolling in Wisconsin. Right now I can troll all over WI with my disabled fishing license, but can only use an electric motor. I'd love to be able to troll in the fall, but I think that 3 lines is too many. Even 2 with one guy in the boat would be a fire drill, but if it means that you can cast a lure and drag a sucker, then 2 lines it is. I think that "Trollphobia" will win out anyway. Just like we value dragging suckers, we're afraid of trolling.
Beav you can jump in with me in the fall so you don't have to worry about that fire drill once we are allowed to troll.  |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | Long TIme Lurker - 2/13/2015 5:52 PM
Hope they vote yes for you.
The Conservation Congress can vote "yes" ad infinitum and it may not matter. The final say is with the legislature who will vote however their favorite special interest tell them to. Cynical ? Yes, and with good reason. |
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Location: The desert | fishhawk50 - 2/13/2015 1:29 PM
ToddM - 2/13/2015 12:40 PM
3 lines per angler your only "trolling" one of them.
"your"? ; )
Booya! |
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| Long TIme Lurker - 2/13/2015 5:52 PM
I don't get this issue, you got guys throwing spears and killing tons and tons of the biggest fish you got up there but you are scared of a guy dragging a Jake behind his boat that is throw the fish back anyway.
Kids, older guys, people with low experience can all catch a fish trolling, it still takes someone with experience to consistently do it, just like casting.
Hope they vote yes for you.
You are correct. There ARE guys throwing spears, and there are nets and treaty harvest lakes and tribal quotas. There are invasives, and ever decreasing stocking efforts due to DNR budget cuts. That's something we can't stop. It's worthless to fight sovereign nations within our own borders. That fight went all the way to the supreme court and we lost big time.
I think most of the backwards Northwoods hillbillies would prefer "Let's fight for what little we have left." over "It's already messed up, so why not **** it all to #*#*."
Edited by esoxaddict 2/13/2015 7:49 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | d2bucktail - 2/13/2015 11:06 AM
Let's try this again. I see the last thread on this Wisconsin trolling topic got pulled. I'd like this thread to stay on topic and remain civil; but spirited is ok. As previously stated and per my observation, this article - http://dnr.wi.gov/news/releases/article/?id=3221 - seems somewhat recent (the red 'EDITOR'S ADVISORY' at the top is dated 2/10/2015 ) despite the original May 28/2014 date at the top of the article. So, based ONLY WHAT YOU SEE IN THIS ARTICLE (link above ), let's discuss.
Nope. Just moved to the appropriate place...
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=10... |
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| I think most of the backwards Northwoods hillbillies would prefer "Let's fight for what little we have left." over "It's already messed up, so why not **** it all to #*#*."
Maybe I am to far removed from the issue to understand it, I did not intend to portray anyone as a bunch of hillbillies. I guess I just didn't see it are detracting from what you have left. I look at trolling as another tactic. I guess I viewed the topic the same as if you said. "top water lures are banned" or "you cant use bobbers". Its just another tactic that under the right conditions can be successful.
Down here in Iowa there are some in arms that you can use a crossbow as your weapon of choice for second season deer muzzleloader. Some archery guys have a problem with it, but its is not allowed in archery season its allowed in muzzleloader season. I see a crossbow as a downgrade to my muzzleloader so I don't know why I would buy one, but i don't care if the guy next door thinks its the second coming and waits all year to do it, great for him. I support his right to harvest a deer ethically.
Muzzleloader or X Bow, a single shot device to launch a projectile providing a clean kill of a 30 point buck.
Casting or trolling. a fishing tactic to drag a lure in the water and catch a fish that will be smaller then the spray fish.
In the end long as you get the same end result, people following game regulations and hopefully in our world CPR. Who is getting hurt? That 47 inch Muskie was here this morning and he is also here tonight albeit with a couple holes in his lips.
So in the end i guess i just wanted to show you what I was thinking, I didn't intend to offend anyone.
I have always wondered why every single year this thread appears.
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Posts: 164
| Why do so many people feel it is fine to drag a sucker along a shoreline but if I want to have an artificial lure hanging over the side of the boat that is considered trolling? I don't see any difference between hanging a sucker over the side or a bulldawg. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Long TIme Lurker - 2/14/2015 9:18 AM
Casting or trolling. a fishing tactic to drag a lure in the water and catch a fish that will be smaller then the spray fish.
... one of which can be obtrusive |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | I sat in on the DNR Seminars yesterday at the Milwaukee Muskie Show. It was clearly stated that the new one-line trolling rule changes would only impact the 17 counties that currently have No Trolling, including dagging a sucker while trolling and casting while "trolling" the sucker, its permitted. The regulation appears to be a good compromise. The rule is per fisherman/angler because they have the fishing license, not the boat. Yes, it passed the advisory board and was drafted for 2015 Regs, its now sitting on Scott Walker's desk and thats the problem, its been there a while, he needs to pass it to the WI Legislature to be passed into law.
What do we need? We need some pressure on the Governor of WI to support the will of the Conservation Congress hearings, meaning all the fishing community of Wisconsin! The same can be said of the legislature when they finally get this legislation.
There is no statistical data that supports that one-line per angler trolling is detrimental to our fisheries. If you don't believe that, just look north of the US border with Ontario Canada. One-line per angler is the absolute rule. I think this new rule is very generous in allowing the fisherman to also cast while trolling one line.
Casting was also clarified by the DNR panel, meaning if you cast you have to immediately start retreiving the lure so its not being trolled by the boat. If you stop your retrieve and let the boat move the lure, you are subject to a citation for trolling with multiple lines.
Scott Kieper - Also brought up a great point. "It will take all of the fisherman south of Hwy 29 to get this bill off Scott Walker's desk and through the legislature" - you have a voice. make it heard by the Governor and Legislature.
The muskie spearing topic was also brought up in the QA by Scott Kieper - Scott is one of the most passionate WI Guides about protecting the bigger fish. The Kentuck Lake spearing of muskies was a hot topic. Its not something the WI DNR has any control of, the Federal Courts have ruled!
But there is solution - negotiation with all Tribes to self regulate their members activities with respect to tribal spearing traditions. Spearing any significant number of big muskies or big walleye's from any lake is detrimental to the lake. Again this is within Scott Waker's pervue as our Governor to leverage. Its all about money versus gluttony by a few, the Tribal Casino's are a major source of revenue to the Tribes.
Personnaly, I don't think gluttony is a tribal tradition. Keep in mind we also have non-native gluttony that is also seriously impacting our fisheries. Including the influx of Asian, Hispanic and Eastern European's whom have no catch & release ethics. They fish, they keep & eat every legal fish. I see it here on the WI River south of Castle Rock Dam, one of the guys (Ian from Praire du Sac) at the swap & I started chatting about WI River muskies. He's seeing the same thing there.
The topic of Muskies below Praire du Sac to the confluence with the Mississippi River was also asked of the DNR Panel. Their concensus was that they are very likely there, and not being specifically targeted. I would like to see a 50" size limit on the entire WI River south of the Casltle Rock Dam.
My sincere thanks to the DNR panel for their contributions to giving me a better understanding of what is, or what could be for the WI muskie fishery. Its very clear that politicians should not be managing our fisheries, we have very highly qualified DNR fisheries biologist's whom are just as passionate about the waters they manage as we are about those waters.
The politicians need to take the negotiations to the Tribes on the spearing issue, its also incumbent on the Tribal Leaders and members to understand the conduct of a few in excersizing their tribal rights is an internal tribal problem, as its creating a unjust image of the Tribe involved.
The same is true of all fisherman, its incumbent on us to behave in a responsible manner. Using vulager language, racial slurs, blocking landings and protests or violence is not going to have anything but the opposite effect - it simply creates a bigger divide between the tribes and those whom oppose spearing.
BTW: Yes, I have family members that are tribal members (Ho Chunk). We are all members of the human race. Take away skin color, its a poor figure of merit in judging anyone. We need to treat each other fairly and with respect.
Have fun!
Al
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Location: minocqua, wi. | the will of the local Conservation Congress was against motor trolling. still a huge divide on the subject and worthy of "sitting" on the Governor's desk. hope it doesn't pass. |
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Location: WI | Odd how people have no issue with having a sucker out while casting, but take issue with trolling 2 lines. There's no way you can justify that stance to me, it doesn't make any rational sense. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | position fishing and motor trolling are night and day difference ... |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | jonnysled - 2/15/2015 12:48 PM
the will of the local Conservation Congress was against motor trolling. still a huge divide on the subject and worthy of "sitting" on the Governor's desk. hope it doesn't pass.
SLED, Do you seriously believe motor trolling with a single line per angler is detrimental to the "local" fisheries of the 17 counties? If so, please explain how? Or are you simply defending your "tribal rights" because its your tradition?
Have fun!
Al |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | ESOX Maniac - 2/15/2015 12:57 PM
jonnysled - 2/15/2015 12:48 PM
the will of the local Conservation Congress was against motor trolling. still a huge divide on the subject and worthy of "sitting" on the Governor's desk. hope it doesn't pass.
SLED, Do you seriously believe motor trolling with a single line per angler is detrimental to the "local" fisheries of the 17 counties? If so, please explain how? Or are you simply defending your "tribal rights" because its your tradition?
Have fun!
Al
nice kidney punch Al ... and, yes i do. do a search and i think you'll find all the "reasons" so many are against motor trolling. best to do that than to kill the horse again.
the compromise considers quite a few of the negatives of the original proposal. still many things that more than just me disagree with. if you were at the Sayner Conservation Congress you would notice those who voted against. i'm just one of many.
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | SLED - The question begged to be asked. I also know position fishing is an art, unless you drop the anchor. I know I've position sucker fished with Howie Meyer, and I suspect his vote would also reflect his personnal perspective, and rightly so.
Successful motor trolling is also another art in itself. If you're just going to drive around with single line and lure its usually not to sucessful of a venture, unless you know what and why you are doing it. Much like casting at a specific patch of water without any clue as to if there are fish there.
I'm like Beaver, I can no longer take casting all day and need breaks...trolling does that for me. So should I just skip fishing some of Wisconsin's most beautiful muskie waters because, its not going to be as enjoyable as I would like?
Its all about options to maximize my time on the water sucess.
Is this totally a motor trolling issue? Not really - its also position fishing suckers tradition versus trolling a single lure or sucker and casting while you are moving. Which is a more sucsessful strategy to actually catch a big muskie?
1. If I position fish a spot with 2-suckers/angler and each are casting.
2. If I position fish a spot with 3-suckers/angler and no one is casting.
3. If I'm trolling 1-sucker/angler and each are casting.
4. If I'm trolling one lure/angler and each is casting.
5. If I'm trolling 1-lure/angler and no one is casting.
6. Row trolling with 3-lines/angler?
PS: I've never seen anyone who can cast more than 1-lure at a time!
Have fun!
Al
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| Too much momentum for trolling for it not to become legal. Seems to be a couple bumps along they way, but seems like a done deal in the next few years, just a matter of how many lines. |
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Location: oswego, il | There will be tons of floating beer and pop cans on northern WI lakes if trolling becomes legal. |
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| ToddM - 2/15/2015 5:45 PM
There will be tons of floating beer and pop cans on northern WI lakes if trolling becomes legal.
It will look like the local roads then? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | BenR - 2/15/2015 6:03 PM
ToddM - 2/15/2015 5:45 PM
There will be tons of floating beer and pop cans on northern WI lakes if trolling becomes legal.
It will look like the local roads then?
yah, Vilas and Oneida County Roads are filled with litter ... have a snickers Ben |
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Location: Already Gone | Just downloaded The Pirates of the Caribbean soundtrack into my boat IPod.
Hide the women and children. |
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Location: WI | Thank you, Al, for reporting conversations at the open forum by the DNR at the Milwaukee Muskie Expo. Al has made a lot of good points in his discussion.
I am for passing this bill. (Full disclosure) I voted for Scott Walker in all of his last three elections. I also own property in Vilas County. As a muskie fisherman, there is no reason for him not to pick up the bill off of his desk and sign it before the season is open. I hope it does not drag on like the Kenosha Hard Rock issue.
Edited by GOTONE 2/15/2015 6:42 PM
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Posts: 39
| I am curious why you folks that view motor trolling as the end of the WI northwoods as we know it aren't leading the charge to ban wakeboard boats, wakeboarders, and jet skis from our precious northern waters?
I have way more issue with those obnoxious sobs than anyone trolling around two lines at 1-6 mph.
Well? |
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