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Muskie Fishing -> Muskie Boats and Motors -> Yamaha - outboards & ethanol
 
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Message Subject: Yamaha - outboards & ethanol
Jerry Newman
Posted 12/15/2017 12:29 PM (#887104)
Subject: Yamaha - outboards & ethanol




Location: 31
I learned some new things from this “maintenance matters guide” I just received from Yamaha, thought the part dealing with ethanol was really explained well.

Edited by Jerry Newman 12/15/2017 12:34 PM
VMS
Posted 12/15/2017 1:12 PM (#887114 - in reply to #887104)
Subject: Re: Yamaha - outboards & ethanol





Posts: 3467


Location: Elk River, Minnesota
Hiya,

Here is an online link to Jerry's file

http://maintenance.yamahaoutboards.com/fuel-fuel-system/

Notice that it does not say that ethanol is bad for your engine overall, but that ethanol has properties to it that can cause your engine to get debris sucked up into the system from loosening up in a dirty tank.

Proper maintenance says to use a fuel/water separating filter which keeps any water from entering your engine, and it is also another filter system to help keep dirty tank debris from coming into your engine.

It also states that for sitting for periods of time, ethanol loses its performance and starts to break down quicker than non oxygenated fuel, but regardless, both types of fuels will break down. Thus, we should be using some sort of stabilizer in our fuel unless we are going to be burning a bunch of fuel, like on a week long vacation.

The fuel systems these days are designed to run on ethanol so the engine will be safe given you take care of it... the fuel will not rot your fuel lines as they are designed to handle it.

Steve

Edited by VMS 12/15/2017 1:21 PM
North of 8
Posted 12/15/2017 3:53 PM (#887145 - in reply to #887114)
Subject: Re: Yamaha - outboards & ethanol




I agree with VMS but learned the hard way not to trust all aftermarket fuel lines. I have a small mercury two stroke that came with the property I live on when I bought back in 2003. A few years later, when I could no longer find ethanol free gas in the area, I ran a tank of ethanol gas through it and rotted the line, which was also old. Bought a brand new line and bulb from a Walmart. Bulb did not last one season. Went to a marine dealer, bought ethanol proof fuel line and bulb which is still good almost ten years later. We again have non-ethanol gas available in the area, so I use that.
Jerry Newman
Posted 12/15/2017 4:37 PM (#887156 - in reply to #887145)
Subject: Re: Yamaha - outboards & ethanol




Location: 31
Thanks for your help Steve! I should've looked at the scans after resizing (deleted).

The guide is a little bit of a plug for their products but I still learned that ethanol gas can break down in weeks, not months. Also even though I always use the more expensive Yamaha ring free product, I'm going to start using the fuel stabilizer too, which is fairly cheap.

Even though I always try to use non-ethanol gas, I would wager some old gas and even some ethanol has made its way into my tank threw the years.


Edited by Jerry Newman 12/15/2017 4:41 PM
Gipper
Posted 12/20/2017 4:45 PM (#887620 - in reply to #887104)
Subject: Re: Yamaha - outboards & ethanol




Posts: 46


Recently my motor was starting on one cylinder and running a few seconds before the other 2 picked up. After head scratching at the dealer because there were no codes, they conferred with the mfg I’m told and replaced the fuel vapor separator (I think).
I brought it home for storage until spring without confirmation of problem solved. It started on one cylinder when I got it home but it was better in 45 degree temp than when it was in the 20s at the dealer. I wonder if anyone has had a similar experience.
The motor is 75 etec.
4amuskie
Posted 1/7/2018 8:04 AM (#889094 - in reply to #887104)
Subject: Re: Yamaha - outboards & ethanol




Todays new fuel tanks in our boats are not vented to the atmosphere as they used to be. Air in the fuel system attracts water and causes fuel evaporation which leaves sediment in the tank, but no more. This is why todays fuel injected engines do not need to be drained of fuel for long term storage. There is little chance your fuel will break down in a sealed system and since all hoses and seals in the engine are ethanol resistant, there is little to worry about today. Keep your tanks full and dont worry about it.
VMS
Posted 1/8/2018 2:28 PM (#889200 - in reply to #887104)
Subject: Re: Yamaha - outboards & ethanol





Posts: 3467


Location: Elk River, Minnesota
Hiya!!

I would disagree with that statement.. all tanks must be vented in order to prevent pressure. Your automobile tank is vented through the gas inlet, as is your tank whether through the fuel inlet or like many tanks, out the side.

If there was no vent, the tank would be building a negative pressure, which would not allow fuel to move from tank to motor.. you would not be able pump a primer bulb. Fuel could not flow because the pressure is not equalized. If it was possible, you'd implode your tank.

All tanks are vented..and if memory serves me, it is by law that they must be.

As for the fuel system being safe, I would disagree with that also. Fuel breaks down because it is always exposed to air whether it be in a tank, transferred from one tank to another, etc. The fuel injected systems don't have a small reservoir holding fuel like a carburetor so it does not have the same tendency to gum up like s carbureted engine does but it still can happen..most likely happening with clogged injectors. Fuel will evaporate and leave a film, which over time, will gum things up regardless of the vehicle is being used/stored.

Many guys run a fuel/water separator on their fuel systems, regardless of type of motor, which is acting as an extra filter system for debris which can and will always get into a tank over time, but this also takes out any water that may be in the tank itself, thus keeping the fuel system a bit more safe from debris and/or water that can cause a myriad of problems with the engine.

Fuel always will break down over time...that is a given as it is always exposed to air, humidity, etc. Hence using a stabilizer to help slow that process down is a huge component to proper maintenance of the fuel system.

Key elements: Always store your engine with stabilized fuel or run it dry. (I'd even push for finishing your engine off if you run it dry with stabilized fuel) Carbed engines should be fogged or oiled of some sort to the cylinders, and even fuel injected engines could use this process as well. Better to play safe than to just run the motor, do nothing, and expect the engine to perform as expected the next year. It is a major reason why many get to the ramp for the first time in spring only to find they cannot get their engine to start or run properly.


Steve

Edited by VMS 1/8/2018 3:03 PM
kjgmh
Posted 1/8/2018 4:43 PM (#889216 - in reply to #887104)
Subject: Re: Yamaha - outboards & ethanol





Posts: 1081


Location: Hayward, WI
New boat fuel systems have a check valve that allows air in, but does not allow air out until a certain pressure. So the tanks do not "breath" as much as they used to.

Fuel injected motors do have a vapor separator, which do hold fuel much like a carb.

Fuel injected systems have electric fuel pumps which should not be ran dry.
Fishysam
Posted 1/8/2018 5:12 PM (#889221 - in reply to #887104)
Subject: Re: Yamaha - outboards & ethanol




Posts: 1209


If your storing a motor long term it “must be treated before it’s put away” or drain the motors rule pumps. Especially with ethanol fuel. Tanks are still vented but must have a 5psi charcoal canister so they donbreath but not as much as they used to, I think this was required on all 2015-newer boats. Old boats not using this system still at higher risk of water in fuel.
Jerry Newman
Posted 1/9/2018 4:45 PM (#889332 - in reply to #889221)
Subject: Re: Yamaha - outboards & ethanol




Location: 31
This past fall I purchased a used 2015 boat and noticed when I opened up the gas cap it made the same noise as if it were a sealed system... well I certainly found this more than a little curious having never experienced that before, and now I know why.

The new boat has the recommended water separator filter, but I will still run the non-ethanol fuel whenever possible like the Yamaha owners manual recommends, especially the last couple of tanks before storage. I'm also going to use the recommended Yamaha additives and just chalk it up it to cheap insurance because having to replace the motor would be a lot of cheessse.

Nice explanations guys... thanks.
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