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Posts: 246
| I looked at basically most available Aluminum boats. No question the Ranger Pro V 1780 VS has the best fit and finish.Lund Pro v Bass 1875 is my other canidate should I go aluminum.Lund double rivits.Ranger all welded. My old tracker was rivited and never had any problems. I saw a few reports on the transom welds of the Ranger cracking.Why would ranger only guarantee inside welds 3 years and outside welds lifetime? Ranger about 8 K cheaper than Lund mano a mano. Tuffy and Triton are my two glass options if I want to spend upper 40's. Thoughts on welds?
Thanks,
Gman |
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| Rivets=movement/flex
Welds=rigid/cracking |
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Posts: 271
Location: davis,IL | Welding heats the metal to a point that right at the weld it is very strong and hard (hardens the metal) but also makes it more brittle. With rivets the metal remains ductile (softer) so it is more flexible and less likely to crack than a weld. There are pluses and minuses to both, under extreme loads a rivet will work loose, and a weld will crack. The real key to keeping both of these together is the surrounding support structure. Any boats that are cracking welds or having rivets come loose under normal conditions speaks more to the internal bracing in the boat or lack there of. At one time ships were riveted together, nowadays they are all welded.
Edited by muskydope 2/7/2016 11:25 AM
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I guess it's a crapshoot all manufactures have the odd problem hull and Friday boats. If I was buying a welded hull I'd want a plate boat like a Stanley or Kingfisher. That said I don't hear about to many problems with Crestliner welds but a few years back they had issues with poorly sealed transoms. Improper storage summer and winter can create problems with any hull. |
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Posts: 1638
Location: Minnesota | I had a Crestliner CMV 04 model the transom brace welds cracked at the toe of the weld . The edge of weld not the weld it's self.whelp I brought it back for repair they fixed it by grinding the toe of the weld then putting a 3 pass on the joint had no more issues with it after that. |
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Posts: 85
Location: Michigan U.P. | I am looking at the same two tin boats and have read the reports about the cracks. I have talked to 3 Ranger dealers that say they know of no issues but I did have one Ranger dealer who also sells Lund try to get me into the ProV. The Pvo V Bass is on a proven hull and the storage and layout is awesome but is a bit more than I need in as far as length(I fish alone) and cost But I am leaning towards the Lund because if I spend that kind of money I don't want any doubt or issues. I have no doubt with the name Ranger on the hull any issues would be promptly addressed but I live in the Eastern U.P and any dealer I choose will be hours away. My current boat is a Smokercraft with rivets and never had any problems.
If I go glass it will be the Tuffy 1760.
Edited by Dafterzip 2/7/2016 2:34 PM
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Posts: 246
| I agree Dzip.The one noticable thing is the Rangers rear casting deck and seats are better than anything out there.I was told a year ago Tuffy was supposed to be working on rear jump seats.That's a huge benefit to save room on a smaller boat especially.Lund,Triton and all others that i've seen other then Rangers would'nt hold up to well to a couple of 300 pound guys as in my buddies.
Gman |
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Posts: 1000
| honestly the quality control among the big names is so good that you should be more concerned with the ride/layout than whether or not the hull holds together. I wouldn't let a rivet vs weld bias get in the way of a boat that fit my needs. In 26 years we've run two lunds and im on the second crestliners. both companies build excellent boats. |
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Posts: 106
| tolle 141 and muskydope are right.
Quality and design are much more important than weld vs rivets. A well built welded hull is much stronger than a poorly built riveted hull and vise versa.
Since you mentioned glass, Stratos, Tuffy, and Recon make boats similar to the Ranger 1780 |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Being in the Industrial Construction Industry for 41 years,... (Ya, I'm an old Sucker) There is a reason why we weld things and haven't used rivets since the 1940's.
Welding is faster, STRONGER, and more efficient than using rivets.... Now if you had a boat with rivets that had a pass of weld on it, than that would be the Cat's Azz. |
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Posts: 100
| I've had welded Crestliners and riveted Lunds, no appreciable difference...all great boats. |
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| One thing that is different between boats and construction is the metal involved. Steel and aluminum are quite different. I have a neighbor who made his living for many decades as a machinist and a welder, specializing in aluminum. Aluminum is far more difficult to weld correctly than is steel, from what he tells me. Supposedly this difference is the reason airplanes are riveted, rather than welded.
That being said, both seem to work well if the company does it right. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | My understanding is that airplanes are riveted because skins have to be removed for maintenance and inspection |
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Posts: 79
| welded hulls are heavy. keep that in mind if weight is a factor.
i'm a riveted hull kinda guy. lighter and easy to fix. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | I'd get one put together with fiberglass. 
Seriously though, if going Aluminum I don't think I'd let welded vs riveted make my decision for me. Pick the boat that has the layout, quality, and reputation you like the most and go for it. One good thing about rivets is if you are fairly handy and have or are willing to buy some relatively inexpensive tools, you can probably replace leaky rivets yourself if you want. I imagine repairing a cracked weld would not be such an easy home repair.
Unlikely that repairs will matter much though. I owned an Alumacraft Navigator for about 7 or 8 years and it never leaked a drop. I owned a 1995 Sea Nymph before that for about 7 years and that was dry too... until I cracked the hull (previous owner had dented the hull on something, and I accidentally got into some pretty big water for the size of the boat).
I wouldn't let a welded hull scare me, and I wouldn't shy away from rivets.
If you are thinking about glass, I got a Tuffy 1760 last year and it's night and day better compared to the two aluminum boats I had.
Good luck searching. Boat shopping is fun!
Tucker |
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Posts: 100
| NOt sure about welded being heavier than riveted...my 1850 Crestliner only weighs a few (less than 10) pounds less than my riveted 18 foot Lund.... |
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Posts: 100
| curleytail - 2/10/2016 9:21 PM
I wouldn't let a welded hull scare me, and I wouldn't shy away from rivets.
Yup. |
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Posts: 1675
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | horsehunter - 2/10/2016 10:49 AM
My understanding is that airplanes are riveted because skins have to be removed for maintenance and inspection
Aircraft industry uses rivets because panels are too thin to weld. The panels are thin to save weight.
On average, aluminum has to be 2-3x as thick to be welded AND maintain structural integrity to not have runners. |
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| I did a little on line research and they discuss the challenge of welding aluminum alloys such as those used in airplanes. Very light weight alloys, whose strength is easily compromised by heating as happens in welding. |
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Posts: 79
| my 1648NCS alumacraft hull is 310 lbs, the allweld MV1650AW is 480lbs.
they have to use thicker material to make welding a viable alternative to rivets. welds also introduce stress in the material. hardens material making it prone to cracks, rivets will give and allow the hull to flex as needed.
if i was doing a longtail mudmotor boat id go allweld as the thicker hull is better for bouncing off stumps and what not.
YMMV. |
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Posts: 528
| Welds do not make the material harder in aluminum. It does the opposite welds and area near the welds are the softest (generally the weakest) part on an aluminum Weldment. Engineers account for this by designing the weakest part (welds) to meet strength requirements of the part.
If you don't believe me please Internet search. Aluminum is different than steel and often confused on the topic of welds
Edited by anzomcik 2/14/2016 11:50 AM
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Posts: 79
| My bad on the hardening in welding. All of my fab experience is in steel. I do always see the welds as the failure point in aluminum assembles though.
Please take a look at the SN curve and review the endurance limit for your alloy and filler material. There is a reason that airliner wings are glued on not welded nowadays.
I do enjoy your podcasts anzomcik. |
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