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Posts: 33
| Alright, so I have a secret spot that is a fantastic musky fishery...along with trophy sized walleye(not a lot) and perch, and big bass as well. This place isnt huge, roughly about 500 acres. There are a lot of musky and all that I have caught are very respectable in size. I was told there were no northern in the lake for a long time....until this summer when i caught about a 12" pike. Later this summer I ran into a guy who asked if i caught one yet, and when I told him yes he preceded to tell me he watched the DNR dump the pike into the area during the summer. Funny thing is this place has NO stocking data ever recorded, yet I can view any other lakes stocking data in my county. I am not sure how many pike were planted....but I am concerned at how this will affect the awesome musky fishery. I was recently out ice fishing with a bunch of guys who one had a musky on, many crappie bluegill and perch were caught, yet nobody hooked into any northern.....SO i am assuming not many were planted. Would it be a safe assumption that there is not a large enough volume of pike to negatively affect the musky if 30+ guys didn't catch a single northern through the ice? Just concerned about the future of this wonderful place, and would like some input from experienced guys. I also find it very weird how the DNR do not keep public records of planting here, but everywhere else there is. |
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Posts: 1516
| Maybe another food source for the skies. I understand muskies love northern |
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Posts: 397
Location: Wisconsin | I feel like it's a loaded question, but I agree with Pepper. Musky will eat those young pike for sure. Pike are a fatty fish and will be a food source for musky. But there is also an inverse relationship between the two species. I would guss that pike introduction wouldnt be as successful as the sustained musky population- but I'm not a fisheries biologist. I would call your local dnr just to see what their opinion is on historical musky density vs newlyintroduced pike density. Even if they don't have much data, they should give you some insight |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Kiss your muskies good bye. The pike will have little effect on the existing adult population however the pike will limit the recruitment of new muskies as they spawn aprox 2 weeks earlier and in the same locations as the muskies and will feed on the young muskies at swim up. Muskies ( riverine ) that have always coexisted with pike have adapted with slightly different spawning locations ( often deeper) and fractunal spawning and have been able to coexist.
A biologist told me just last week that in 30 years the Kawartha lakes will likely have no muskies. Google Kawartha Pike Invasion. He also told me that one of the many reasons for the decline of the Lake Simcoe muskie fishery was the stocking of Kawartha ( lacastrine ) muskies that were unable to coexist with pike and polluted the Simcoe gene pool.
Other reason were of course filling of wetlands and development eliminating many spawning locations. It seems that muskies have very strong spawning site fidelity.
25 years ago my fishing partner at the time and I could catch 100 muskie each yearly from Crowe Lake at Marmora Ontario . While we were holding meetings on raising size limits a guy told me he caught a pike in the lake and we told him it must have been a musky as there were no pike in Crowe lake. Turns out he was right and we were wrong ( Pike entered through a river system ) today the lake is full of decent pike ( if you like pike ) and you would be hard pressed to find a muskie.
Edited by horsehunter 2/3/2016 7:43 AM
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Posts: 300
| I have a hard time believing that it would be "kiss your muskie lake goodbye". There are plenty of lakes where they coexist peacefully. I am not saying that it will go completely unchanged with the introduction of pike, but I have a hard time believing that it will wipe out the muskie population to the point where it will not have a population to fish. |
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Location: MN | What state is this? The mn dnr prefers to stock Muskies in lakes that do not have pike in them for the reasons mentioned so i'm surprised your dnr would stock them in the lake you describe.
Is it a natural reproduction lake or stocked? |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Where pike and muskie have always coexisted no problem they have evolved together,where muskies have never had to compete with pike chances are the muskies loose . Seen it happen on several small lakes. Ongoing issue on Ontario's Kawartha system |
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| Pike free lakes in MN? never heard of that. |
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Posts: 20178
Location: oswego, il | Are muskies stocked in the secret lake or are they naturally reproducing? If they are stocked then it probably won't be an issue. I know pike were accidentally stocked in lost land and teal lakes in Hayward. Been about 20 years so far so good. |
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Posts: 306
| You are basically fishing in a bucket. I'm sure it's a ton of fun, but it's not a balanced, sustainable ecosystem when it's in a climate that contains both fish. That's likely why the DNR is stepping in.
If they dumped a truckload of 40" pike in there, then sure you might see an affect in the near future. But if it's just fingerlings or hammer-handles (which it likely is) it'll take a long time to see any negative (relatively speaking) effect on the musky population. You might have to buy more lures, because those little guys seem to damage them more than anything, but that's about it.
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Location: Eastern Ontario | http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/fish/muskellunge/muskie_northern.html |
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Posts: 1000
| A couple things to ask:
1. is there any natural recruitment of muskies in the lake?
2. how would you describe the lake? are there marshes connected? that would bump pike spawning success.
If there's no natural recruitment of muskies, then i think your biggest concern would be competition for forage.
Muskies have coexisted in Leech and the mississippi river for millenia
Edited by tolle141 2/2/2016 5:21 PM
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Posts: 833
| There was a meeting with the DNR and the MMPA a few yeas ago and the DNR observed that some lakes in MN where Musky have been stocked had poor pike fishing due to an abundance of hammer handles. Over time the musky have not only grown into a solid fishery, the pike population has also (likely through predation) improved it's size structure.
Most systems have their own unique personalities. What happens in one is not always going to happen in another. |
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Posts: 2752
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Brad P - 2/23/2016 2:24 PM
There was a meeting with the DNR and the MMPA a few yeas ago and the DNR observed that some lakes in MN where Musky have been stocked had poor pike fishing due to an abundance of hammer handles. Over time the musky have not only grown into a solid fishery, the pike population has also (likely through predation) improved it's size structure.
Most systems have their own unique personalities. What happens in one is not always going to happen in another.
How odd - Muskies actually improve size structure of other specie's? Yes, mother nature finds a balance point.. If muskies are only predator, its not likely a good muskie lake...unless its fished by SLED... or BNelson ... then it would be like Chinese fire drill!
Have fun!
Al |
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Posts: 2752
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | [
Edited by ESOX Maniac 3/6/2016 10:28 AM
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Posts: 14
| I really don't know anything for sure on this but here's what I believe. I would be more worried about your perch and maybe walleye. There's a lake with musky as well as crappie and eyes just down the road from my grandma. At some point, northern were introduced. My grandpa said the annual ice fishing tournament went from walleyes and crappies to nothing but pike. I don't believe it's nearly as infested as the locals say, though. I've fished there on visits for 2 years now and haven't caught a northern smaller than 22 inches. This year I caught a 36" ski in 2 days out on the water, which was pretty good for a person who doesn't know a whole about the elusive muskellunge. Also, I've seen considerably better muskie fishing on lakes without northern so it must impact them to some degree. |
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Posts: 33
| Northern pike have never been in this body of water until the dnr put them there 2 years ago now. I have caught quite a few hammer handles while fishing muskie. The muskie fishing has still been very good, and I have caught 6 or so muskie under 20 inches....telling me they are doing well still I would assume. I have also gotten 4 over 42". Time will tell I guess, but there is no doubt a decent population of northern now introduced. |
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Posts: 271
Location: davis,IL | Well the thing to think about here is the fact that Pike spawn earlier than Muskie. The danger to the Muskie population in the lake occurs in the first few months of life when they are smaller than the young Pike. With spawning in similar areas the Pike fry will feed on the smaller Muskie fry. It will take 5 to 8 years for the effects to be noticed. So years from now you may see a noticeable decline in the population of adult Muskies. All of this does rely on natural reproduction, if the fish are ( both species) are stocked regularly then the effects may be less notable with forage then being a limiting factor.
Edited by muskydope 10/13/2016 7:22 AM
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Posts: 1000
| Does the lake have natural muskie reproduction? That would be the only instance of concern. Still, depending on the strain and structure of the lake it could be a non-issue. Leech strain muskies spawn in different areas than pike specifically because of the predation issue. |
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