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| Message Subject: How to Get REALLY Good | |||
muskyrat |
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Posts: 455 | I really don`t ask that many questions anymore. Why ask why I kind of agree with. My approach is always the same. Every water no matter what because I do what I do. I could care less what anyone else is doing or patterns I might be missing. I want to do what I`m best at and let the fish come as they come. Those fisherman always looking for the hot bite or latest tecknique never seam to be on fish long and are spending most of there time looking for a pattern. Time on the water means nothing but time on the water. If you are fishing Dale Hollow and I`m fishing LSC I will get more fish in one day than you get all year. You have to judge your results on the waters you fish. Most great fisherman have one thing they are great at and a few things they are good at to fall back on. Can`t think of anybody I would rather run the boat than myself. | ||
| muskyrat |
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Posts: 455 | Grass made a great point. Getting the baits closer to the fish and structure both casting and trolling is key. Probably the biggest key of all IMHO. Lots of people mess this up because they are afraid to foul up or snag a trolled bait on the bottom. | ||
| Bondy |
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Posts: 718 | I was called 'That guy' once...but it was in a police line up along a wall. Just kiddin'. | ||
| ToddM |
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Posts: 20178 Location: oswego, il | Something muskyrat said kind of struck me. I very much prefer running the boat. I am sure the friends I fish with are sick of me telling them the adjustments they need to make when I am in the back of theirs--->there is that awareness again. Edited by ToddM 4/4/2015 6:54 AM | ||
| jmitch |
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Posts: 26 Location: Sauk City WI | Todd hit a good point about awareness and understanding what's happening around you. I also think the ability to change and adapt what you are doing with very little information. We are talking about a fish with a very low contact per hour rate so the ability to read every fish or situation I think is key. They're are a few people I fish with that are constantly sometime to try and find the pattern throughout the day while I'm am sort of opposite in that I find it hard to give up a pattern that I think sshould produce. I think it's the guys that seem to know exactly what to do based on very limited information that are ahead of the game. I'm not sure of that comes from experience or just a good understanding of the fish were after but that is where I'm trying to get better. That and be able to fish a wide variety of baits and presentations effectively and the willingness to give up on your favorite bait or presentation when it's not working is how I see it in my very amateur view. | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32785 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | muskyrat - 4/4/2015 1:14 AM I really don`t ask that many questions anymore. Why ask why I kind of agree with. My approach is always the same. Every water no matter what because I do what I do. I could care less what anyone else is doing or patterns I might be missing. I want to do what I`m best at and let the fish come as they come. Those fisherman always looking for the hot bite or latest tecknique never seam to be on fish long and are spending most of there time looking for a pattern. Time on the water means nothing but time on the water. If you are fishing Dale Hollow and I`m fishing LSC I will get more fish in one day than you get all year. You have to judge your results on the waters you fish. Most great fisherman have one thing they are great at and a few things they are good at to fall back on. Can`t think of anybody I would rather run the boat than myself. Lord knows we shouldn't want to know know why a pattern worked, a fish was in a particular area at a particular time, a certain color pattern was hot and then not, why muskies showed up in shallow slop when the 'rules' say they should be deep basin..... and who said anything about the 'latest technique'? Can't disagree more with the last statement. Most great anglers are ultra versatile, able to adapt quickly to new waters, changing conditions, and are far more than great at only one thing. One knows what one knows, and one doesn't know what one doesn't know. I want to know what I don't know. I think some folks didn't get what I was saying by 'ask why'. Why was the big fish I saw today where it wasn't yesterday? Why did a certain technique work today and yesterday, but was dead last week...on the same water, under what appear to be the same conditions? Why did I catch 6 fish over 40 one evening, and no fish at all the next? Why when the wind switched slightly from the west to southwest did the fish go nuts for a half hour? Were the two related? I'd think this is a never ending learning process, but that's me. | ||
| woodieb8 |
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Posts: 1529 | how to tune your baits. time on water and being observaent to season cylcles | ||
| Jeremy |
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Posts: 1126 Location: Minnesota. | I'll offer up a little bit of something that's quite new to me but most of you "really good guys" likely already know. It might get you closer to the "that guy" deally... Last summer as well as a few summers before it, my son and I were working either a weed bar or a rock shelf, structure/cover stuff. "Good" holding stuff, we all know. Well I decided to turn around "180" and cast to open water. Deep, "unstructured"- and I got nailed!!! This really amazed me. Never expected it... Happened now more than once. Last summer my son said "Dad, you ever see a fish out this far?" "Nope" I said. "Keep casting" as I turned around towards the lake-side. Ten casts later a "54" came in. Food for thought. It should be obvious by now that I'll never be "that guy" cause stuff like this just doesn't fit into anything other than "Hey, you've been casting for 4 hours now, why not give this a try..." Beats me. 35 yrs. casting now and I still get surprised. Humbling. And it's what keeps me pinned!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Lester Neigard |
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Posts: 72 | Why was the big fish I saw today where it wasn't yesterday? Why did a certain technique work today and yesterday, but was dead last week...on the same water, under what appear to be the same conditions? Why did I catch 6 fish over 40 one evening, and no fish at all the next? Why when the wind switched slightly from the west to southwest did the fish go nuts for a half hour? Were the two related? Well, what are the answers?? I think most of us ask those questions. It is the very few that have actually figured it out. Weekend warriors, like myself, often don't get to spend enough time on the water to dial into all the nuances. | ||
| muskyrat |
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Posts: 455 | Well I guess I take a lot of my knowledge for granted. You do need to ask yourself some questions. Still if you watch a Bass Tourney for the most part guys look to do what they do. Billy Bob looks for docks because he is a dock fisherman. Tommy Ray fishes crankbaits so he looks for deeper water. That's the way it works. You want to play your game just like any sport. When I see somebody get more and bigger fish than me in my area I may try something new. Has not happened in twenty years. Also agree with Lester. After twenty plus years I can`t tell you why they bit when. Sometimes I think I know but other times it looks great according to everything my experience tells me and nothing. Sometimes I think it`s going to be a boat ride and I score. If I fish the hard every time I will get fish when they are biting. I have never experienced all the fish being anywhere other than the spawn. That's the only time of year I fish differently. After the turn over I hit some deeper water that had no fish during summer but the methods are the same. Just less line or more line. Deeper lip shallow lip. So all I really need to know is spawn post spawn and fall turnover. When I read things like you have to master the figure eight I laugh. Some guy on LSC has boated thousands of fish without ever doing a figure eight. How many big fish on the 40 acre shoal are caught on the figure eight? One every fifteen years maybe? Sure if your casting LOTW you should be proficient at the figure 8. I however will never sniff LOTW. I will be fishing the St. Lawrence on vacation where if your not trolling you are completely wasting your time. If someone has not come up with a better way in a hundred years why would I think I can? | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32785 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Lester Neigard - 4/4/2015 7:22 PM Why was the big fish I saw today where it wasn't yesterday? Why did a certain technique work today and yesterday, but was dead last week...on the same water, under what appear to be the same conditions? Why did I catch 6 fish over 40 one evening, and no fish at all the next? Why when the wind switched slightly from the west to southwest did the fish go nuts for a half hour? Were the two related? Well, what are the answers?? I think most of us ask those questions. It is the very few that have actually figured it out. Weekend warriors, like myself, often don't get to spend enough time on the water to dial into all the nuances. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The answers are out there but one won't learn them if one doesn't ask the questions first and then try to solve the puzzles any way one can. A short cut for some who don't 'have the time' is to fish with someone who does, and ask 'that guy' the question. That's been suggested already. But you still need to ask unless the situation happens the day you are out fishing with 'that guy' and you witness and learn something that makes you a better angler...something you didn't know. Learn about the muskie's environment, and what the fish is actually capable of. That solves a bunch of stuff that's regularly believed that's pretty much bunk. Learn how muskies relate to changes in that environment throughout the day, week, month, and year. Learn what they eat and where they eat. Learn about the fish they eat along those same lines. And so on. The really good muskie anglers I know (that guy) figure out many of the answers because they work at solving the puzzle on...and importantly, off the water. One can spend an enormous time on the water and not get many puzzles solved. it's entirely up to you. OFM covers the best of the best in the competitive Bass angling world interviewing them before, during, and after Bassmaster Elite and FLW Tour events. The top anglers out there who regularly cash checks have to adapt to wildly differing conditions, environments, and more. Even the best of the best run into situations where they can't produce enough to cash a check, and don't have the answers. At that point it's too late for that tournament, and the term used is they 'got schooled'. Next time they will know what to do. I don't think it's possible to know enough to not need to learn more. I find that to be the really enjoyable aspect of fishing, and it makes every fish I catch more enjoyable. Pretty much always have, but these days figuring out something that an unsolved mystery is, to me....pretty cool. Unless you are happy with where you are, and that's fine. By the way, muskyrat, if the question is already answered for 100 years, I'd say that one is solved. Wouldn't you? 'When I read things like you have to master the figure eight I laugh'. Well, get on over to LOTW or Eagle or Wabigoon or Lake George here near Rhinelander in all it's tiny 500 acre plus glory. You will stop laughing. What you mention I see covering Walleye events where trolling is the rule big time. But Keith Kavajecz won a Cabela's National Walleye Tour event and his partner in The Next Bite took second on a traditional trolling bite water fishing SOOOOO far out of the box it's revolutionized the sport...in a baby step sort of way. Crazy adaptation, and a REALLY crazy approach. Here's the video: http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/videos/11.08.2014/7469/Shiver.Minn... Listen to what Keith was doing to take the win. He describes the technique at the end of the video. Seriously, that's some crazy adaptation. And that is why they are so good at what they do. | ||
| muskyrat |
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Posts: 455 | I hear all your saying. Certainly knowledge is power. I just think a guy could get pretty good just casting Suiks and Bucktails alone if that's all he wanted to do. As long as he picked waters that fit his presentation and style. Would not be important for that guy to know how to run a planer board mast system. My point is that I have always felt the angler being confident in what he is doing is often more important than having multiple presentation to try each day. Mark Windels fished only a yellow bucktail for a whole summer on LOTW and his results were about the same as every year. I don`t consider guides in this conversation as you had better be the guy if your guiding people. Also easier to fish lot of presentations when your at it every day. For weekend warriors (Myself included) I like to have something I`m great at and can take on the road to appropriate waters. Sure I do cast as most lakes close to my house are electric only. I`m not going to catch any records there though. Most of my serious fishing is done trolling because that's what I`m good at. The fish really don`t change either. For the most part they act the same year after year. There is always something to learn even if you use the same presentation for twenty years. There are always new spots to learn. That is one key to being that guy without being a full time guide. Being bold. In 1995 my partner and I fished Monksville for the first time after hearing fish have moved down from Greenwood. That resulted in some fantastic fishing. In 1996 I hired a guide now body ever heard of to take me fishing on a lake know body heard of. His name was Marc Thorpe. At the time people were fishing with well equipped guides on LOTW. Hear I was fishing with a guy who had no trolling motor, no Muskie net, a trim motor you had to hit with a wrench. On top of that he had never fish the lake I wanted to so he took me to the Ottawa river. Well we did horrible but I could tell he was real gung ho and was a guy I wanted to give more opportunities too. Well eventualy he checked out the lake and called me. Our first day. 53 1/2" 50" 49" 48" 46 1/2" 41 1/2" and a monster 55" plus lost on a big jump. No body had that lake on their radar and still nobody does. New opportunities like that pop up all the time. I can think of lakes in N.J. no body fishes that are chocked full of Muskies. Soon I will be checking out Champlain. New waters and new areas of heavily fished waters often provide unpressured fish and that can make a difference. | ||
| tackleaddict |
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Posts: 431 | Listen to primus while you fish, it makes you better. Im dead serious! | ||
| Ranger |
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Posts: 3774 | LSD | ||
| Average Joe |
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Posts: 265 Location: Hudson,WI | I honestly use to SUCK!! I would go one year and catch 1 or maybe 2 fish for the entire year, or maybe none. Then I decided to seek out a guide to teach me. I spent a TON of money fishing with guides the last 3 years, but if you wanna play then you gotta pay. It was honestly the best investment I've ever made!! I've become friends with several of the guides out there, and I've learned a TON of stuff. Now I've consistently caught 10 fish in a season the last couple seasons, despite not being on the water as much as I'd like. I know if I was out on the water more, I'm sure my numbers would be better, but I'm A LOT better than I use to be. It was the best investment I've ever made!! | ||
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