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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Ok, I'll ask this question again.......Will there ever be another MNTT here in Minnesota.
We have so many top notch musky Lakes in this State, Why not a Muskie Circuit ?
It's like not having Pro Hockey here...Remember that !
I would Fish it in a Heartbeat.
How about You ??
G-Rome |
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| 100% agree! You could count me in. Been hoping they would do this again. Sounds like good musky fun! |
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| My son and I would be in!!!!
Edited by BLIZZAK 11/23/2014 7:22 PM
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| I could be talked into going to the Big-V for an event, just to beat G-Rome on his own water! |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Junkman - 11/24/2014 7:36 AM
I could be talked into going to the Big-V for an event, just to beat G-Rome on his own water!
Bring It, Packer Slacker ! Hahaha.... I'd even show you a few out of the way spots Marty. Just because I'm a nice guy. |
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Posts: 118
Location: Minnesota | My buddy and I were just discussing this over the weekend. I myself would fish the tournament, if we could get back to the dates Hartman had when he owned and ran the tournament. My understanding from others is that the dates were not put in for in time and the tournament lost participants rather quickly. I did not fish the tournament trail when it was going, but I am in a position now where it would on my calendar.
Steve, you own the rights to the MMTT right? Shed some light for some of us newbies.... |
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Location: Appleton, WI | As recent history has shown, pulling permits to run big musky tournaments in MN waters is not easy. Whoever takes on the task has a tough job. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | I'd be happy to fish 1 big dollar event in Mn. like in yrs. past. |
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Location: The desert | I'd come follow G Rome around. Maybe even hook up a tow line so I don't need to bother with boat control. |
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| The answer is probably not... Everyone wants to fish a new MN trail but NOBODY wants to organize and run one! |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Especially me. Not after my experience a few years back. No way. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Ben Olsen - 11/25/2014 5:36 PM
The answer is probably not... Everyone wants to fish a new MN trail but NOBODY wants to organize and run one!
I may have to step up.... What about 1 bigger event with 75 boats at $1000. per boat or $500. per man.....$25,000 for first place and paying down to 10th place.
I'll kick in $2000. for Stocking.
Perhaps in the Fall on a Northern MN. Lake.
I've been thinking ....Could be Dangerous. |
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| I'll mail the cash in today. do it. |
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Location: Eagan, MN | GRome, if by chance 'Northern MN' means Lake Vermilion, maybe checks should be sent directly to Luke Ronnestrand? Hah. I might bite on something like this, depending on the timing. BrianF |
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| you won't get 75 boats to pony up $1000 in the fall.
maybe summer. maybe. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | BrianF. - 11/26/2014 8:09 AM
GRome, if by chance 'Northern MN' means Lake Vermilion, maybe checks should be sent directly to Luke Ronnestrand? Hah. I might bite on something like this, depending on the timing. BrianF
Oh, Luke.....He would only be allowed to fish Stuntz Bay for 2hrs.....Haha .. Gota handicap him.
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | M Winther - 11/26/2014 9:05 AM
you won't get 75 boats to pony up $1000 in the fall.
maybe summer. maybe.
Mike,
You know the last big money Tournament up here drew 80 boats in Mid- September.
First place paid $80,000. with a $2,500. entry fee.
I was thinking of starting with 5o boats, but the payouts didn't seem as Tempting as a 75 boat format... Also thinking of adding a $10,000. bonus for boating a 55" Musky.
The end of July and the first of August may be a problem with getting a permit and the possibility of High water temps... Plus the lake would be much more crowed than after Labor Day.
Also this would have to happen on a Friday and Saturday unless the permitting Rules have changed.
Wouldn't want to schedule this at the same time as other Tournaments.
Did I mention kicking in $2,000. for Stocking.... Maybe $3,000. would help the permitting process go a bit smoother.
Would also like to reach out to the Local Sportsmen's Club in some way. Maybe get some Resorts involved.
Like I said: I've been Thinking,.....Which my Wife said "Can be Dangerous"
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| Probably the last guy you'd expect this from....but I'd love the "big-money" concept but not from a big entry fee. I think in today's world $600.00 a team (a PMTT entry) is about as expensive as you would ever want to go. That's big enough to cause a really nice event not to fill. If I ever get around to winning one of these things...I'd really rather beat 150 teams than win a few more dollars. Even 125 teams at $500.00 each would make a really nice $31,250 if half went to the winner. I'd also feel less like a donor if a really high entry was not likely to favor a few hot locals. An adddict like me is likely to go anywhere for any purse, but you really have to do your market research poroperly before you launch a product. And oh yea...please don't bring back that "staying up all night stuff 20 hour tournament--I'm already tired!" |
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| You know the last big money Tournament up here drew 80 boats in Mid- September. First place paid $80,000. with a $2,500. entry fee. Yes it did. In 2004. I'd love to be wrong about 2015!
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Posts: 1970
| 50 boats - $2,500 per team - 50K to the winners would fill fast if it was promoted well.
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Posts: 1970
| 1st Place 50K
2nd 20K
3rd 10K
4th 5K
5th 2.5K
Plan on taking $17,500 for promotion and organizing and donate 10K to Muskie stocking MN...Bam! done deal!
Edited by IAJustin 12/1/2014 9:57 PM
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Location: Eagan, MN | I like IAJustin's format. Question to the organizers though: How do you discourage some one from tying-off a couple of muskies on the end of a remote dock somewhere?? If folks are going to put what might be considered to be big money for an event, I'm sure they'd want to feel certain that the tournament will be 'clean'. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | gear it towards paying out the top 3... more money on the line for the top few spots will draw more..at least it would to me.. 2500 is a stretch imo for an entry fee... I do hope someone makes a run at doing another Bobby M type tourney |
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Posts: 1970
| if you can get 80 boats in 2004 - you would have no problem getting 50 now....there are a lot more muskie guys now!!!...make it exclusive, promote it well, get some sponsors behind it, get the MDNR behind it. It's one tournament with a big payout, and worst case - 8% of your entry fee would be going toward stocking muskies in MN - I think 50 boats would sign up in 10 days if it was promoted well. "The Minnesota World Series of Muskie fishing" - One three day tournament held every October :)
Edited by IAJustin 12/2/2014 11:06 AM
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Paying down to 3rd place, would give those who didn't place a feeling that they just donated their money, as Marty said. I would think.
Promoting this Tourney would be a major key to it's success......
Getting some sponsors would really help with the success of this Event.
$2,500. may be a bit to high for a lot of people, but $1,500.-$1,000 might draw more people in.
As far as having Fish tied to a dock... I would like to see "a no Pre- fishing day", the day before the event started.
I like that people are thinking about something like this.....Keep the thoughts and suggestions coming. |
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Posts: 1970
| do a $10,000 buy-in Winner walks away with a cool quarter million ! That would add a little excitement to any lost fish ..ha ha.
Edited by IAJustin 12/3/2014 10:54 AM
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Location: Eagan, MN | If the top prize is big, say >$50k, i think there should be a polygraph deterrent, giving the tournament organizers the right to conduct polygraph tests on the winning teams. Back in the day, this was done in some of the bass tournaments I used to enter...and, I for one, was glad they did it. They would take one member of the top three winning teams and give him/her a short and private polygraph by an expert who was on-site at the weigh-in. Took only a few minutes, but helped ensure fair play. Yes, I know there are problems with polygraphs, but most fraudsters would probably want to avoid the scrutiny. Entrants would have to agree to forfeit prizes if they could not pass. Of course, the tournament organizers would have the right - but not the obligation - to administer these. If someone like LukeR wins, I would think the organizers could feel good about foregoing them. The key is the deterrence factor.
Brian |
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Location: Eagan, MN | And if I'm in for $1.5k, I'd be in for $2.5k. Don't just make it another musky tournament. This is the World Series of Musky Fishing! The Simply Fishing Classic is still looked upon as probably the biggest Musky event of all-times...brought out all the big names and generated quite a bit more interest than your run-of-the-mill musky tourney. Isn't that what we're talking about here? Go big, or go home.
Edited by BrianF. 12/3/2014 11:10 AM
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Location: Minnesota | I just seen on face book there having a " Minnesota esox challenge " this year. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | BrianF. - 12/3/2014 11:09 AM
And if I'm in for $1.5k, I'd be in for $2.5k. Don't just make it another musky tournament. This is the World Series of Musky Fishing! The Simply Fishing Classic is still looked upon as probably the biggest Musky event of all-times...brought out all the big names and generated quite a bit more interest than your run-of-the-mill musky tourney. Isn't that what we're talking about here? Go big, or go home. .
I agree Brian but, some people will be scared off by the $2,500 entry fee as opposed to the $1,500. entry fee... I think.
Going Big is the intention here. Absolutely.
A Polygraph test would be a must have for this format. |
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Posts: 1970
| why would $2500 scare people off? Its going to double the prize money!!! pay $1500 entry to win 25k ..I'm out. Pay $2500 to win 50K I'm in!!! ... Big payouts require big entry fees...dozen's of Saltwater tourney's have 5K-10K entry fees.... You aren't getting 100 boats to pay $1500 in the fall ...but you'll get 50 to pay $2500 and it would be a much better tourney. Who wants to deal with a 100 boats on the water at the same time ..tripping over each others docks.. |
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Location: Black Creek, WI | I think with high dollar payouts, you should consider more than a 1.5 day event as well. The BobbyM format pretty much eliminated the idea of cheating as you had to catch fish on multiple days. It also reduced the risk of losing to a "one hit wonder" by requiring consistency. Catching all your fish in one day was not to your advantage. Also, the Simply Fishing event confirmed that high stakes tournaments are not going to be an annual event. They attempted to run the same tournament the following year and could not generate enough interest. $2500 entry fees are not something most tourney guys can handle on a regular basis. I'm skeptical another event like that will ever get coordinated... but kudos to whomever may give it a whirl. |
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| if you can get 80 boats in 2004 - you would have no problem getting 50 now... This kind of optimism is necessary for any organizer...they'd also need to be known and respected in the muskie community to get people's trust with that kind of money. Until the right person actually steps up this is all just hyperbole. I'd be interested...but the lake matters a LOT, and that's where 2004 is the most different than 2015. |
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| Not to slam anything, but I would like a chance to beat 250-300 of the best sticks out there a lot more than 100 guys who just happen to have some do-rei-me lying around to gamble with. I just think those fees will keep away a lot of nice guys and good sticks. The musky world is really smaller than many think.....and generally poorer! I'm sort of dreaming about a really, really big win...maybe 5-6 fish and Nicole Kidman brings me the trophy and plants a big one right on the mouth, and 300 guys are cheering.....and my Ranger dealer stops telling me I better start winning or I'll have to wash boats to keep my pro-staff status. The rest is "only money!" |
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Location: Eagan, MN | Nicole Kidman is married... |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Junkman
Posted 12/3/2014 8:43 PM (#742599 - in reply to #741286)
Subject: Re: New MN. Tournament Trail.
Offline
Posts: 807
" Not to slam anything, but I would like a chance to beat 250-300 of the best sticks out there a lot more than 100 guys who just happen to have some do-rei-me lying around to gamble with "
Ok...I was thinking about this today....ok so look at big money tournaments in other sports.. take the PGA for example..I have often paralleled musky fishing to golf in conversations w buds... just ANYONE can't enter the Masters.... I was thinking today what about an invite ONLY big money tournament.. as someone else said, the musky world of really good say the top 5% of the anglers out there, is pretty small, and no secret..sure there are awesome anglers (I hate the word "sticks" lol) that nobody or very few hear about..but overall, they are known.. invite the best 100... so at most 100 boats, I'm sure at least 25% don't do it.. I agree with the above..I'd rather go toe to toe with the likes of Lijewski, Tauchen, Luke R, Wojtuski (sp?) etc etc etc than beat someone that just has a big 621 and money to burn but barely has a clue how to work his gps unit...!!! (and I'm not even assuming I'm in that 200) this is just a random thought.
Edited by BNelson 12/3/2014 9:44 PM
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Posts: 1970
| Muskie fishing is more like the world series of poker...sure it takes some skill but it really helps to be lucky too! The best poker players in the world rarely even make the top 10. Lots of guys on this board beat any of the names you just listed in a three day muskie tourney. So many of the widely considered "best" guys in the sport didn't catch a fish in 2004... 2" away from being in the final two days right Steve J - ha!
Edited by IAJustin 12/3/2014 10:26 PM
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Location: Contrarian Island | well, that was over 10 years ago....I know I've become about 1000 x better angler since then.. I'd imagine most of the best have too.... |
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| ya the margin between the Herbeck's, Saric's , on and on.bla bla bla should have been greater back in 2004 ,,,there are 100's of anglers that have caught up now....Exactly why I'd be willing to throw my money in the pot I know I can win, so could a lot of guys on here...
Edited by IAJustin 12/3/2014 10:44 PM
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Location: Appleton, WI | In defense of the 2500 entry fee. With the PMTT running 14-18k 1st place on average the last 5 years you can dump 1800 into it, beat at least 75 teams for 6 days, and sweep the trail to win 50k. Add another 1800 if you travel cheap and you're still spending 3600 to win the same amount of money this idea is proposing, and you only have to beat the field 2 days not 3 times at separate lakes. Eliminate the multiple travel expenses, up the intensity, and I do think it would gain attention. Guys could fish one event, spend less than they do to fish the PMTT trail, and win the same amount of cash as all 3 pmtt events pay out to win. IF..... a permit is granted I'd suggest running 80‰ field with a month to go or call it and send money back. If you wanna spend 5k to market it and 25 teams have entered but there's a month to go and it's not full, mail each of them back 2300. This would stop guys from waiting to see if fields build until the last minute. Nobody would be happy throwing down 2500 to fish for 12 or 15 that's why I'd like to see an entry guarantee % and deadline. |
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| 2500 is a ridiculous amount to charge for a tournament -- no matter what the final payout will be. How many musky guys do you know that have that kind of cash just laying around? Only way that would happen is if you had a lot of people sponsored to get into the tourney and in the musky world that just doesn't happen. You would not get even close to 100 boats in that tourney. A lot of people think that 600 is a lot for the PMTT and that's why they stay away. I know people like to look back at that tourney in 2004, but times have changed now. There are so many more tournaments out there that people can find for cheap and close to home. If you had an expensive tournament you wouldn't be getting the best fishermen -- you would just be getting the ones who could afford it. |
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| by depending on entry fees to provide payouts, it will always mean things are up in the air, people will wait to enter, and final payouts will be a percentage of the promised "full field" amount. heck, even the SF event in '04 didn't achieve it's advertised $100k payout because it didn't have a full field of 100 boats.
if someone wants to guarantee a large, minimum payout, there needs to be a sponsor or group of sponsors willing to put money forward ahead of time. that's how the PGA, the WSOP, etc. do it, and that's how the big money bass and walleye tournaments do it too. so, there needs to be a dollars and cents (sense) answer to why a company would want to pay thousands of dollars to sponsor this tournament...will it result in additional sales for that company that are equal/greater than the amount of money they provide? how does the tournament become advertising that reaches a large group of potential customers, much beyond the relative handful of people actually fishing the event?
and along those lines, it's interesting that Cabela's has partnered with the Muskie Expo in Chicago. |
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| Ran into Tim at the Ranger open house yesterday, and he says we're going to the Big Vee for the third qualifier this coming season. |
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| I remember this being a well attended event back in 2006
The 40" limit kept fish numbers down back then, but hope this year
gets a great turnout
For a well organized trail |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Junkman - 12/6/2014 6:25 PM
Ran into Tim at the Ranger open house yesterday, and he says we're going to the Big Vee for the third qualifier this coming season.
If that's the case, I'm in! |
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| I would love to do it, but there is no way I could afford a 2500 split. Plus travel and lodging? Sounds a bit high.. Just my 2¢. |
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Location: deephaven mn | $2500 don't think i could do that
however it is a muskie tournament a one bite can jump you high on the leader board |
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Location: varies | Stir the pot a bit regardless of buy in.
Payout to the top 5.
3rd place goes to biggest fish. So, someone could take 1st and 3rd or 2nd & 3rd or 3rd, 3rd&4th, 3rd and 5th. etc...
potential for bigger earnings based on numbers and size and biggest fish gets a place too.
although i think pmtt like fee's would be better and get a better, bigger turnout. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | No matter who does this I'm in for Higher payouts...... If I do this it will Pay down from 5th to 7th place with a $50,000 first place..... and Maybe 2016......Promotion, Planning, and sponsors are key to it's Success.
Like I said: I'm Thinking..... |
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Location: Medford, WI | Top H2O - 12/10/2014 11:36 PM
Like I said: I'm Thinking.....
....That's a bit scary...
-Jake |
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Location: Otsego, MN | To bad it's not this fall on Vermillion. Since the PMTT is heading there this summer you would have a lot guys fishing that tournament and might make them feel more confident about heading back a month or two later for a big dollar tournament. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Pedro - 12/11/2014 12:24 PM
To bad it's not this fall on Vermillion. Since the PMTT is heading there this summer you would have a lot guys fishing that tournament and might make them feel more confident about heading back a month or two later for a big dollar tournament.
To much planning to make it next fall... This has to be successful, and requires more planning than 10-11 months.
For what it's worth, I've been running my own business since 1990 and learned that your Plans are a make or break deal...Good Planning = Good Success.
Thanks Jake. Scary, huh. |
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| Unless there's been a change at the local office at vermilion the area fisheries manager never granted permits for a sat and sun tourney unless it was late in the fall otherwise it would have to be a fri/sat or sun/mon. The first thing to do is call that office and ask when the earliest date would have a chance to be approved. There's two lakes that will draw interest Vermilion and Minnetonka, nobody has a clue about mile lacs anymore leech isn't sexy enough with the young guys, Cass maybe. But let's be honest none of this happens until you get Paul Hartman to take it on and actually do it. You have to be a Minnesota resident to get a tournament permit and he's the only guy in the state with the ambition. GIve him your input when you see him at the muske expo he owns and runs that too.
Edited by happy hooker 1/13/2015 4:26 PM
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| There was a bass tournament last August on a Saturday and Sunday. |
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| You guys are thinking wrong you don't have to come up with $2500,,it's $1250 and your partner has to get the other. I was in the BobM mega vermilion tourney ad liked the idea that for one shot vs a trail if I got lucky I'd get a nice check. I'd rather do one big one, but a trail is costly gas,hotel vacation time from work. I Know guys who did well,won events,won boats won world championships and they barely made a profit with all the expenses, barely got offered any sponsorship. Despite their success they don't even do them anymore. Unless your someone like Luke or Hammernick or JLong and his partner Bill (can't pronounce his last name) who regularly get paid musky trails should be looked at the same has softball league's your in it for the fun and competition not money. I'm not gonna be lucky enough on a trail to beat Luke, Hammernick and JLong but I could get lucky in one event. A mega costs more but only one time expenses and with the larger jackpot if you do well you get a nice check. I'd like to see one done every three or four years if you do one every year you won't get the full field people will procrastinate and say. "Ill do it next year"
Edited by happy hooker 1/14/2015 8:33 AM
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| 50 teams $1500 = 75k. 15k off of top
1st - 20k
2nd - 15k
3rd - 10k
4th - 7k
5th - 5k
1,500 both days for big fish
I think a bunch of guys walk away at end happy with there payout. I think this format could fill easy in either WI or MN
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | happy hooker - 1/14/2015 8:16 AM
You guys are thinking wrong you don't have to come up with $2500,,it's $1250 and your partner has to get the other. I was in the BobM mega vermilion tourney ad liked the idea that for one shot vs a trail if I got lucky I'd get a nice check. I'd rather do one big one, but a trail is costly gas,hotel vacation time from work. I Know guys who did well,won events,won boats won world championships and they barely made a profit with all the expenses, barely got offered any sponsorship. Despite their success they don't even do them anymore. Unless your someone like Luke or Hammernick or JLong and his partner Bill (can't pronounce his last name) who regularly get paid musky trails should be looked at the same has softball league's your in it for the fun and competition not money. I'm not gonna be lucky enough on a trail to beat Luke, Hammernick and JLong but I could get lucky in one event. A mega costs more but only one time expenses and with the larger jackpot if you do well you get a nice check. I'd like to see one done every three or four years if you do one every year you won't get the full field people will procrastinate and say. "Ill do it next year"
That way of thinking makes WAY to much sense..... But I like it. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | It's been awhile since this topic has been looked at.
A Big money Mega Tournament like the one Mr. Bob M. had a few yrs. back would be welcome, I think.
What's your opinion ? A Minnesota Muskie Trail, or a One Time big money Tourney ?
Does anybody have Paul Hartman's number ? Ha....
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| Either one of those options sounds great to me. |
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| Permit time is nearing,,,december
Edited by happy hooker 10/15/2015 7:51 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Yeah, I do. He and I tried already. Best payout ever, and we got dragged behind the virtual bus for the effort. |
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| If $2500 is too rich, fish with some else's money. Find yourself a sponsor to put up your cash. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I talked with Paul Hartman about this a couple days ago. He said he has had the 'same 12 guys' say they would love to have the trail back, but that doesn't come even close to filling a field. Any new event from that quarter would be Paul and me running the events.
I don't have the time or patience; my memory of the last time we offered excellent payouts and venues over there is still pretty sharp.
Nothing for 2016. |
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| musky3535 - 1/14/2015 12:16 PM
50 teams $1500 = 75k. 15k off of top
1st - 20k
2nd - 15k
3rd - 10k
4th - 7k
5th - 5k
1,500 both days for big fish
I think a bunch of guys walk away at end happy with there payout. I think this format could fill easy in either WI or MN
I really think one big money tournament would be awesome! Please someone get this together |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'Someone' already did. Thanks to some wonderful folks and the bad economy at the time the entire concept was dumped. Don't need to be openly attacked by the very folks we were trying to offer a payout to that allowed up to $30K first, all cash. You would have thought we were trying to kidnap someone's baby.
Bob M also did this, offering an $80K top prize. He lost money after one venture and quit. I was there, the event was well run despite the horrible weather one day, and everyone seemed pretty happy, yet he took no end of abuse. The competitive muskie angling world isn't 'ready' for a big money trail, and may never be, which is fine.
The PMTT does a fine job offering a national trail, and there you have it. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Tim, from the PMTT takes all kinds of stupid crap from people.
He has some really thick skin....With that said, I really don't understand why people bash and try to tear down the guys that try to put Tournaments on.
It's really sad how muskie fishermen treat people who try to put a lot of their life's into starting a Tournament trial/event.
Wish I had thicker skin.
G=Rome |
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| I fished the Mega on Vermilion and had a great time. I'm not sure what you Steve had cooking with Hartman, but I would love to see another mega event. But if all you do is get harassed it's not worth your time or sanity!
It should would be nice to see though. Mille Lacs is having a Bassmaster's even in September for crying out loud. If that can handle the Bassmasters, MN can handle another Mega Musky  |
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Location: MN | Catching smallmouth in Mille Lacs right now is a whole lot easier than catching muskies. Last pmtt event there year before last I believe there were only 5 fish caught I think, albeit a couple giants |
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Location: Otsego, MN | I fished Hartman's and they were awesome and well run. Out of curiosity what kind of crap or what is it that people keep complaining about when people are trying to put tournaments together? It seems simple to me that if you don't like them for some reason just shut your mouth and don't fish them. |
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Posts: 325
Location: Otsego, MN | Pedro - 5/31/2016 9:48 PM
I fished Hartman's and they were awesome and well run. Out of curiosity what kind of crap or what is it that people keep complaining about when people are trying to put tournaments together? It seems simple to me that if you don't like them for some reason just shut your mouth and don't fish them.
I agree with you that if you do not like it keep your mouth shut and just don't join.
That said, it seems today no matter what a person does someone has to complain. Impossible to keep everyone happy... |
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Posts: 3136
| Talk to these type of people all time here,,they complain tournament's use the resource to make money,then when you point out to them that guides and resorts also make money off resource they look at you like a person on a witness stand who just got asked an incriminating question "HUH"
Most of these people don't like competitive sports which is fine no problem BUT they don't like you doing them either for fear their missing out. |
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New MN. Tournament Trail.