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Location: Ontario | After great morning of fishing today I have experienced hearth breaking stay-loc snap failure.
High 40 fish hit hard about 10' from the boat and it immediately started rolling, 2 seconds later gone. I couldn't believe my eyes, and immediately thought that the line or leader were cut but to my shock the Stay-Loc snap was undone. I'm positive ghat it was fine and locked since we caught 50+ fish just minutes before and I checked the leader line and connections after that fish, and didn't change the bait.
We stayed in the area for hours and seen the fish trying to shake the lure but never managed to race to the spot and scoop it.
The bait is hanging outside her mouth, so I hope she will be able to get rid of it. Hate to think that she will end up as turtle food 
Is there any better snaps or only split ring would be more reliable?
Thanks
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Posts: 558
| I change them out all the time. The more often you change lures, the more you should replace them. I would replace them when they start turning silver that means you have been bending them lot. I had a lure hit the floor of the boat once right after i reeled in and just about to cast out again. They get week, replace them all the time even if they look good. Better safe than sorry. |
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Location: Ontario | It happened to me before that they cracked but never just opened. |
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Posts: 1759
Location: new richmond, wi. & isle, mn | That's why I split ring all my baits directly to my leader. |
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Posts: 860
Location: NE Ohio | IMO the best snaps out there, i use 4's and 5's. nothing is 100%. i change them when they get shiny and discard. the next step up would be just use a heavy duty split ring. sorry for your loss..................you'll catch others in the future. good luck. |
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Location: Northern Wisconsin | lighten the drag a little, those are rated to 200 lbs (size 5). |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Super Snap from AHL |
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Posts: 3469
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
Lost a few baits to snaps (not stay-loc) which for the past 7 years or so now have gone split ring on everything.
I actually think you get better action on smaller lures going with the split ring as well...
Steve |
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Posts: 1126
Location: Minnesota. | Propster - 8/30/2014 9:38 PM
Super Snap from AHL
X2. Dang near gotta use a pliers to open them. Incredibly strong!!!
Given that I have a friend who never uses snaps. He uses a twisted, burnt wire to make his own leaders w/a ring on both ends, one to the bait and the other he reties his Crawford knot every time he changes baits.
Quick. Strong. 1000%!! Never one single issue. Can't argue with that. I'm thinking of doing the same. Never got him into trouble and he takes many, many fish over the 40 yrs he's been at it. He's retired now, still does it that way. |
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Location: Ontario | pklingen - 8/30/2014 10:24 PM
IMO the best snaps out there, i use 4's and 5's. nothing is 100%. i change them when they get shiny and discard. the next step up would be just use a heavy duty split ring. sorry for your loss..................you'll catch others in the future. good luck.
Thanks, I couldn't care less that I didn't boat that fish, but what eats me is that I probably killed it |
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Location: Ontario | Propster - 8/30/2014 10:38 PM
Super Snap from AHL
I tried to find some pictures of it but no luck
Can you point me to the right direction?
Thanks |
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Location: Ontario | VMS - 8/30/2014 10:48 PM
Hiya,
Lost a few baits to snaps (not stay-loc) which for the past 7 years or so now have gone split ring on everything.
I actually think you get better action on smaller lures going with the split ring as well...
Steve
What size of split rings do you use?
Thanks |
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Posts: 718
| Alligator rolling musky in the net opened too many snaps for me. Number 7 heavy split ring is all I use and have for a long time. The other day we caught a lure off the bottom with a nice ball bearing flouro leader on it. It had a snap though. Well long story short we started using it, and my client hooks a 50" and as we got it in the net, I noticed the snap was wide open. Never again in my boat... |
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Location: Ontario | Bondy - 8/31/2014 7:11 AM
Alligator rolling musky in the net opened too many snaps for me. Number 7 heavy split ring is all I use and have for a long time. The other day we caught a lure off the bottom with a nice ball bearing flouro leader on it. It had a snap though. Well long story short we started using it, and my client hooks a 50" and as we got it in the net, I noticed the snap was wide open. Never again in my boat...
Thanks Jon!
Will have to do the same... |
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Posts: 718
| I've got a client who has spent his life trying to catch a 50lb lake trout up near the arctic. Well wouldn't you know he finally hooked one. When it got to the boat, both him and the guide both looked down and the snap was wide open. One lunge and it was gone...I'm sure enough tears flowed to make a second lake. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | You must be careful to close it properly. I have seen it hooked to the ring rather than passing through the ring and hooking around the long arm of the snap. I check the hooked part and slightly tighten it if I think it needs it. Split rings can also get work hardened and become brittle and break with extended use. Nothing is (at least in muskie fishing) 100%. |
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Posts: 718
| Here's the problem. Split rings are not full proof, that's for sure. But if I can close a snap with my finger tips, I just don't trust it in powerful, angry, clenched jaws. |
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Posts: 20179
Location: oswego, il | Have made my own snaps out of 174lb leader material. They work great but its hard to make them the same size every time. |
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Posts: 1348
Location: Pewaukee, WI | Use a leader with a solid ring on one end and split ring all your baits so you are not opening and closing the same ring whenever you switch baits. Have one rod rigged with a swivel on one end and a solid ring on the other to use with bucktails or any bait that would otherwise twist your line and another rod rigged a solid ring on either end to use with surface baits, gliders, etc. where you want to minimize the weight attached to the lure. I like #7 split rings for all around sizes, but you may want to consider other sizes depending on the lure i.e. Bobbie baits, etc. . When you buy leaders from a supplier, simply request that they be tied up that way. |
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Posts: 1126
Location: Minnesota. | lifeisfun - 8/31/2014 4:10 AM
Propster - 8/30/2014 10:38 PM
Super Snap from AHL
I tried to find some pictures of it but no luck
Can you point me to the right direction?
Thanks
http://www.musky-lures.com/
Phil's a great guy too!!
Jeremy. |
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Location: Ontario | horsehunter - 8/31/2014 8:02 AM
You must be careful to close it properly. I have seen it hooked to the ring rather than passing through the ring and hooking around the long arm of the snap. I check the hooked part and slightly tighten it if I think it needs it. Split rings can also get work hardened and become brittle and break with extended use. Nothing is (at least in muskie fishing) 100%.
Frank, I have been around the block few times, and l'm positive that it was closed properly. |
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Posts: 265
Location: Manitowish Waters WI | I have been using corkscrew swivels and they have been great. They can be a little difficult to get baits with large gauge eyes on but they have no way to fail or wear. They also have a bearing built in so you do not need a barrel swivel on the top end of your leader. |
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Location: Ontario | esox1980 - 8/31/2014 2:30 PM
I have been using corkscrew swivels and they have been great. They can be a little difficult to get baits with large gauge eyes on but they have no way to fail or wear. They also have a bearing built in so you do not need a barrel swivel on the top end of your leader.
Any links where you got them?
Thanks |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Hundreds of fish on snaps and not an issue. Until a couple weeks ago. Trolling over the end of the hump that I lost my fish of a lifetime 8 years ago. Late brothers lucky Jake on a brand new leader, large Stay Loc. Saw the fish when it came up head shaking a long distance out, big. Bait was inside the mouth. I gained some line before the fish sounded again and started to head shake, the line went limp, fish/lure gone. The snap wasn't really bent, just open(and yes I am careful about closing them properly). I'm sure it happened on the strike/initial run.
As George said, it isn't as much about the loss, as it is avoidably killing it. While a good trip with other big fish to 52" before that one, I had a bad taste in my mouth after that. I ran rings on everything up to about 10 years. Got lazy I guess. I did some experimentation with large lures and Stay Loc snaps and depending upon how the snap is 'laying' along the eye of the lure and the lure itself, it took less than the expected force to bend/open one. My friend trolls a fair amount on big fish waters and runs a leader with solid ring on the business end, then has a split ring on every lure. That way the same ring isn't being stressed upon each lure change.
I still feel the Stringease Stay Loc is the best snap option I've used. Can I get away with using snaps for night fishing with bucktails etc? Probably, but at what point does that cost me another monster? |
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Posts: 427
Location: Planet Meltdown | Thanks for reminding me to order new snaps! |
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Location: MN | Does Stealth leaders use Stay-Loc? It appears it is the same style but I wasn't sure if it is a different brand. The reason I ask is because it seems like the Stealth snaps gets kinked easily. I casted a mag into the abyss this year on a back lash and it straightened the snap right out and I'm guessing the kink in the snap wire caused the weakness. I am too nervous to use stealth now and have went to my cheaper leaders that have more solid snaps.
Maybe split rings is the way to go. Which brand and size rings do you guys use? |
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Location: Ontario | Nershi, Jon indicated couple posts above that he is using Number 7 heavy split rings. Since he uses Jigging a lot I would imagine that this should be heavy duty enough for everyone else.
http://www.muskytackleonline.com/joe-bucher-outdoors/bucher-split-r... |
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Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | 250# - #6 SS Duo Locks for me....quick easy and STRONG! |
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | To address the Stay Locks snaps and Stealth Tackle. Stringease Tackle was sold to Mustad last year. Mustad has had a few issues getting the snaps dialed in from a production standpoint. During this process there were some snaps that hit the market that were not up to the same standards as when Bernard had the company. They are being fixed. During this time we (Stealth Tackle) went thru the process of testing ALOT of other brand snaps. We determined that a sub par Stay Lock is still way better than anything else offered therefore we are still using Stay Locks because we havent found anything better to offer that we can purchase in bulk to supply our customers. Bernard from Stringease has been involved with them and they are correcting any problems. As I said the Stay Locks are still as good or better than anything else out there from a mass produced product. We (Stealth Tackle) do not make our own snaps and the only way we would would be if we could offer something better. We do offer solid rings as an option to the Stay Lock. Ive had very few problems or issues brought to my attention with any reliability issues with the new snaps. You should check and replace your snaps often though they do get weak and will wear out before your leader unless your leader gets nicked or scared.
If you have had problems with the Stay Locks I would highly recommend that you contact Mustad thru their website and let them know.
The AHL snaps are about as solid a snap as you will find however some people will have problems opening and closing them because they are that tough. They are very well built but are also not cheap to purchase.
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Location: MN | Thanks for the response Muskihntr. I am guessing I got some of the inferior snaps when they were having issues. Too many people have said Stealth is the best to have that weak of snaps on your leaders. I will have to order some new stealths and see how they compare. |
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Location: 31 | It all depends on how much effort you want to put into it because it's actually pretty easy to make a super snap out of the commonly found .043/360 pound test high-quality wire. I originally copied the standard Sampo snap (right), but incorporated the longer tag end so they wouldn't open on a headshot, and after 20 years… very few issues. Matter of fact; after seeing the snaps I make, AHL took it to the next level with larger size/heavier gauge wire (left). My problem now is that I have several generations of snaps in circulation, and other than them getting shiny, it's hard to tell how old, or how much use they have had. So, this winter I plan on making all new so that I can keep track of them... I'm also switching out all my swivels just to be on the safe side. I'm supremely confident that one of these properly made .043 snaps would easily outlast any leader currently being made… and although the AHLs are too bulky for me, it's a near lifetime snap.
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Location: Ontario | Looks so simple that it's almost hard to believe that it's so good
Thanks for posting picture! |
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Posts: 1126
Location: Minnesota. | Jerry Newman - 9/2/2014 6:50 PM
and although the AHLs are too bulky for me, it's a near lifetime snap.
I gotta grit my back teeth when I change baits using AHL snaps. Good stuff!!!
Besides the aformentioned twisted, melted/split ring, permanent leaders I think I'm set.
Good fishing, boys!! Important topic!!
Jeremy. |
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Posts: 994
Location: Minnesota: where it's tough to be a sportsfan! | I think it can be human nature to think the leader/snap is new, not that old. Done that myself. Every time we have guests that bring their own gear we go it before we hit the water. The Stay-Locs are great snaps, just change them out. I really like that you can change the snaps out without having to change the whole leader. This also allows fro lighter snaps to be put on if downsizing baits w/o a retie. |
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Posts: 167
Location: Tomahawk, WI | Folks, don't over-think this issue!!!! These are snaps we are talking about here. This is one of the cheapest parts of the entire musky fishing equation. The type of snap you use when fishing for muskies is irrelevant. You are talking about a part that costs pennies to produce. The simple fact is that these things are going to fail from time to time. That is a fact! There is no telling when or why it will happen.
So you lost a fish because the snap failed. Oh well. Get over it and tie on a new lure. If you spend one second thinking about why it happened you've wasted you're time. You can find a different snap company or use split rings as it was suggested but none of that is fool proof. These are Muskies we are chasing and they are mean nasty creatures that torture equipment. You are going to have equipment failures so get use to it. If you cant deal with that, go fish for bass. |
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Location: 31 | banditman - 9/3/2014 1:07 PM Folks, don't over-think this issue!!!! These are snaps we are talking about here. This is one of the cheapest parts of the entire musky fishing equation. The type of snap you use when fishing for muskies is irrelevant. You are talking about a part that costs pennies to produce. The simple fact is that these things are going to fail from time to time. That is a fact! There is no telling when or why it will happen. So you lost a fish because the snap failed. Oh well. Get over it and tie on a new lure. If you spend one second thinking about why it happened you've wasted you're time. You can find a different snap company or use split rings as it was suggested but none of that is fool proof. These are Muskies we are chasing and they are mean nasty creatures that torture equipment. You are going to have equipment failures so get use to it. If you cant deal with that, go fish for bass. “If you spend one second thinking about why it happened you've wasted you're time.”
Yikes: Maybe it’s just me, but if I have an equipment failure, I’m thinking about how I can correct it… heck, I even try to think about stuff and correct it before it happens.
Maybe I'm wasting my time… maybe not? But maybe you weren't muskie fishing before the split ring system or Stay locs were available? I say this because the reason people began using split rings, and why I began making my own snaps was because of a lack of decent options, and major issues with what many considered the best option back then, Berkley cross-lock. It was a problem for me and my friends, with many dead fish attributed to those snaps breaking.
If nobody was willing to figure out a better way back then, we would not have some of these better options now, and even though it will never be 100% foolproof… doesn't necessarily mean we should stop reaching for it either.
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Posts: 47
| banditman - 9/3/2014 1:07 PM
Folks, don't over-think this issue!!!! These are snaps we are talking about here. This is one of the cheapest parts of the entire musky fishing equation. The type of snap you use when fishing for muskies is irrelevant. You are talking about a part that costs pennies to produce. The simple fact is that these things are going to fail from time to time. That is a fact! There is no telling when or why it will happen.
So you lost a fish because the snap failed. Oh well. Get over it and tie on a new lure. If you spend one second thinking about why it happened you've wasted you're time. You can find a different snap company or use split rings as it was suggested but none of that is fool proof. These are Muskies we are chasing and they are mean nasty creatures that torture equipment. You are going to have equipment failures so get use to it. If you cant deal with that, go fish for bass.
Perhaps you don't spend weeks on a body of water where you are looking for that 'one' fish of the season. Having lost that 'one' to an avoidable mistake on my part, dampering the excitement of the 52" from the night before, was a valid enough reason to chime in here. Nobody is going suicidal over this, but talking about it and discussing ways to avoid similar issues in the future(especially trolling), is a good thing to do. In fact, I have been a fanatic over musky equipment for over 20 years, and can honestly say I learned about just how good these ahl snaps are because of this thread.
I'd offer the same suggestion to you, ie if it bothers you to read a thread regarding folks discussing avoidable equipment failures and more or less brainstorming about said topic, perhaps skip to one of the hundreds of other topics here that may interest you. |
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Posts: 2004
| I have some extra .40 wire sitting around. Is that too small to make some of those leaders? I have no idea what strength it is. |
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Posts: 20179
Location: oswego, il | I have made my own snaps, copied the staylock and used the loop to keep the snap tight as opposed to a fail safe. Need to make more.
wow, not spending any time thinking about what went wrong? I am always trying to improve no matter what aspect of my life it is. I dont fret over it, always try to improve. |
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