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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Is it? |
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| I don’t think so. I’m not an elitist but I Muskie fish |
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| My definition of elite includes limited acceptance,,, musky fishing anybody can pursue without any approval. |
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Location: Miller time Wisconsin. | Subscribed for any future OP clarifications and contexts of offered vagueness. |
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| Maybe a little obsessive but I don't think elitist. Working as a clean waters/clean boats volunteer at the launch on the chain where I live, mostly see fishermen, very few pleasure/sport boats. The musky fishermen are both the nicest people and the biggest jerks. No one type that I can see. |
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Location: oswego, il | There are plenty of giant egos and big drama to clash with in the Musky fishing world. If you get heavily involved it will find you. If you think no more Muskies is really about the fish, think again.
Edited by ToddM 4/15/2021 7:23 PM
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| Only if masochism is now considered elite. |
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| It ain't golf but many treat it as such. For a picture. |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | If catching a trophy bass while muskie fishing and getting peeedoff it wasn't a real 'fish' makes me one, then, yup. m
[img]https://i.postimg.cc/jwrT5Py6/DSCN1258.jpg[/img] |
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Location: Northern Illinois | Uh...no |
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Location: E. Tenn | ToddM - 4/15/2021 8:21 PM
There are plenty of giant egos and big drama to clash with in the Musky fishing world. If you get heavily involved it will find you.
Only if you let it..
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Posts: 609
Location: Bloomington, MN | Andrew, if you mean that muskie fisherman have a superior attitude you may have been correct 6-10 years ago. Those days are hopefully gone, but even at the KWMT there are a couple of snooty hind ends every year. Looking at Mikie and Mauser pics shows everyone you don't need a $70000 boat to get fish. Missed you Mikie! I actually insisted my friends change the lures they were using before we docked at Theil's on Pelican for lunch whether we caught or saw a fish 20 years ago. Maybe Mr. Worrall did the same, but I always made mental notes of the arsenal in his boat. I fished Mille Lacs before and during the "Boom", and the lake was loaded with testosterone! Those guys didn't need boat lights at night and basically claimed Vineland Bay and Wealthwood. Lots of words were exchanged at that time. I no longer have any secrets to give up and share what little I know. I personally believe some bass guys have taken the theatrical mayhem of "Look at me, I'm special!" to whole different level. I just did the math, Theil's was 35+ years ago. Time for the home.
Edited by Clark A 4/16/2021 12:01 AM
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Thanks for the props. I run my dad's 1978 BassTracker, with many modifications I've made to the deck, electronics, etc. That 9.9 gets me into some of my best local lakes, and will eventually get me around many of the others.
Now, those who have known me a while may remember my 21 ft Gambler with the 225 hp screamer on it; it got me fish, too and if someone wishes to gift me with a $70K boat, I'll try my best to net a few in it, too.
As far as the "E' word, I do believe that our branch of sport fishing houses some of the very best anglers of any species. m |
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Posts: 267
Location: Central Pennsylvania | Actually saw a video calling musky fisherman pretentious, then saw a few comments calling us elitists. I thought it was kind of interesting, as I've met very few but all seemed to be very humble. I have talked to a few who seemed to have very inflated egos, though, not every one in the great sport of musky fishing is like this. |
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Posts: 357
| Personally id say it elitist. Just listen to the chastising anytime anyone holds one wrong, or kept a trophy, or kills a fish. Constant debating world records, claiming everyone is a liar about their claimed sizes of fish in photos...etc. Like it or not its a big part of why the walleye crowd despise muskies, they bring the muskie fisherman.
with the boom in popularity during the stocking booms, there were a lot of mn locals who came away with less than positive images of many gypsies. sometimes in a lot of cases that is fair, sometimes not.
as the fad starts to slow down with the declining # of fish (especially in MN) i think it will shift back to more purists than elitists. |
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Location: oswego, il | RJ_692 - 4/16/2021 7:37 AM
Personally id say it elitist. Just listen to the chastising anytime anyone holds one wrong, or kept a trophy, or kills a fish. Constant debating world records, claiming everyone is a liar about their claimed sizes of fish in photos...etc. Like it or not its a big part of why the walleye crowd despise muskies, they bring the muskie fisherman.
with the boom in popularity during the stocking booms, there were a lot of mn locals who came away with less than positive images of many gypsies. sometimes in a lot of cases that is fair, sometimes not.
as the fad starts to slow down with the declining # of fish (especially in MN) i think it will shift back to more purists than elitists.
The whole this is my water not yours is part of the elitism. It's interesting how many now "gypsie" to Florida I wonder how that is perceived. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The dictionary definition that could be interpreted as negative applies to some muskie anglers out there, no doubt. As long as it's not all up in my face, I don't really notice or care much. There's very little of that here these days unless it's the positive of the definition describing one of our peers as one of the best.
There is a fair amount of drama at times, but that's part of any sport. All in all, I think we're a decent group of folks despite ourselves.
I get blasted occasionally on social by muskie anglers who have never met me, never have spoken to me....never have even emailed me. It's usually an 'us against them' sort of argument and I'm bundled in and then singled out because I felt compelled to comment. That's not elitism, that's just normal human bad behavior. Same with the 'my water' stuff, that's just people being ignorant.
No doubt the sport is growing, that's for sure. |
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| ToddM - 4/16/2021 9:40 AM
RJ_692 - 4/16/2021 7:37 AM
Personally id say it elitist. Just listen to the chastising anytime anyone holds one wrong, or kept a trophy, or kills a fish. Constant debating world records, claiming everyone is a liar about their claimed sizes of fish in photos...etc. Like it or not its a big part of why the walleye crowd despise muskies, they bring the muskie fisherman.
with the boom in popularity during the stocking booms, there were a lot of mn locals who came away with less than positive images of many gypsies. sometimes in a lot of cases that is fair, sometimes not.
as the fad starts to slow down with the declining # of fish (especially in MN) i think it will shift back to more purists than elitists.
The whole this is my water not yours is part of the elitism. It's interesting how many now "gypsie" to Florida I wonder how that is perceived.
In many cases it was the opposite of the "its my water", it was i drove 12 hours to get here and im a musky fisherman get out of my way that prompted the perception of elitism. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | RJ_692 - 4/16/2021 10:14 AM
ToddM - 4/16/2021 9:40 AM
RJ_692 - 4/16/2021 7:37 AM
Personally id say it elitist. Just listen to the chastising anytime anyone holds one wrong, or kept a trophy, or kills a fish. Constant debating world records, claiming everyone is a liar about their claimed sizes of fish in photos...etc. Like it or not its a big part of why the walleye crowd despise muskies, they bring the muskie fisherman.
with the boom in popularity during the stocking booms, there were a lot of mn locals who came away with less than positive images of many gypsies. sometimes in a lot of cases that is fair, sometimes not.
as the fad starts to slow down with the declining # of fish (especially in MN) i think it will shift back to more purists than elitists.
The whole this is my water not yours is part of the elitism. It's interesting how many now "gypsie" to Florida I wonder how that is perceived.
In many cases it was the opposite of the "its my water", it was i drove 12 hours to get here and im a musky fisherman get out of my way that prompted the perception of elitism.
'Same with the 'my water' stuff, that's just people being ignorant.' Both sides of the argument there. |
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| I think its often perceived as such by those who don't know any better. To go "all in" on this crazy adventure, you need a $70,000 Ranger, $50,000 truck, $5k worth of electronics, several combos that can cost upwards of $1,000 each, $2,000 worth of clothes, and let's not forget 300 lures, that cost easily $20 a pop... Then you gotta go where the fish are. Gas, lodging, meals, bar tab..
Think about that... You come waltzing into the bar talking about the day's catch, they see your rig parked outside... All total, it cost more that their house.
Now we all know you don't NEED 75% of that stuff to catch muskies. I have enough gear that came off raffle tables to outfit myself quite nicely. But there's something about muskie fishing that causes even the brightest among us to lose all concept of money. And something about the personality of someone who will spend all day flinging lures at a fish that you may not even see (and throw back if you DO catch one) over and over and over again that doesn't make sense to a lot of people.
I've found most of them to be decent folks who just wanna fish, quietly, and go on about their way. But that's not who the "outsiders" notice.
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| I finally became an Elite muskie angler this spring when I got my first pair of Costas. LOL. But I suppose casting out of my 30 year old boat might trump the Costas. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Smell_Esox - 4/16/2021 12:59 PM
I finally became an Elite muskie angler this spring when I got my first pair of Costas. LOL. But I suppose casting out of my 30 year old boat might trump the Costas.
Nah, the shades do the job.  |
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Location: oswego, il | Smell_Esox - 4/16/2021 12:59 PM
I finally became an Elite muskie angler this spring when I got my first pair of Costas. LOL. But I suppose casting out of my 30 year old boat might trump the Costas.
My crestliner has seen a couple hundred Muskies, my little 14' princecraft has seen at least 4X that. Mute point though I have two pairs of costas.
Edited by ToddM 4/16/2021 2:54 PM
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| I think there are just people who are better at it, and they're better at it because they have the money to do it. I've never used a fancy anything other than a rod and reel and reel, maybe a sweet hat. It is the same for any other person out there - "My 70k truck is so awesome with my 70k fishing vessel!" "Well my #*#*ty little car gets me to point B and back, so I can save up to be an awesome musky fishermen" That is where I am at. I always used to laugh when I'd see guys poundin bulldawgs for suspended fish in middle of August up here when temps peak out. They all have stickers and #*#* on their boats. I go flying by, probably "do worse" fishing-wise, but I'm still happy as happy is! I don't want to be a guide, I don't want to write a book or 8, I don't want to start a website. I do it because I love it. Maybe someday I'll have a fancy boat with spot lock or whatever the hell that is, unlearn everything I've known and catch more fish. Not really my goal. |
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| i did see that when i fished more a river known for muskys 10 years ago , but i saw a guide on same river up is nose at us and kind of make us feel like its HIS river now ! at least that how it felt to me , by the way i saw this guy struggling at it his fist years on it and being the nice fisherman that waved and did not look at you like you where fishing HIS water . but success and notoriety can go to anyone's head . |
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| becoming, no
has been for years |
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Location: Not where I want to be! | There's plenty around that think they're hot sh**. Probably accomplished at catching muskies but couldn't catch supper if they had to. I've come across plenty through the years that look down on bass fisherman and think that bass fishing isn't really fishing. Guess what, a good bass fisherman adapts to muskie fishing like a duck to water. Some of the best muskie anglers I know are really good bass fisherman. Now there are also bass guys and walleye guys that think their hot sh** also. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Has been for a good 15 years |
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| Ever been around a bass tournament? |
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| One thing that I suspect keeps muskie fishing from being too elitist is that it just takes so many hours and is such a low numbers fish to target. Many folks will often be happy to stick one fish on a week trip. It’s more like deer hunting in that sense moreso than fishing. Whereas with bass, folks can fish a lake for a day and compare limits of X or Y lbs caught, that’s much more difficult in muskie fishing. Also, we have more folks ‘swinging for the fences’: trying to catch the biggest fish of their life on any given trip. A lot of times, I’ll exclusively fish massive baits that I know will turn off smaller muskies, but that’s not what I’m targeting. So the timeline is spread out much further, almost into a lifetime, rather than how many fish or lb limit was caught in a given day.
All of this is to say that with muskies, there’s much less of a defined comparison benchmark for a ‘good’ versus ‘average’ or ‘bad’ angler because frankly we just catch so few fish overall. We can't as easily say "fancy gear X allowed me to catch Y fish, versus that other person with less fancy gear B that caught C fish". So I think that keeps egos in check, and the sport is much less focused on competition, which I suspect is highly coorelated with elitisim. |
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Location: Not where I want to be! | Muskie Gal - 4/17/2021 7:44 AM Ever been around a bass tournament? Like I said there are those in the bass and walleye world also. |
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| Fuc yea, we're elitist. Takes us years to learn to regularly catch the biggest, baddest fish that swim in fresh water. It has nothing to do with gear, either, I was elite in my trusty 1972 14' Stella Blue Fin with a 15hp merc. The big cat guys/gals are also elitist; the folks who hunt 30lb+ flatheads. Likewise the walleye and bass gals/guys who target only trophy fish. I knew an old timer who regularly caught buckets of 10" bluegill and 14" perch year-round, he was elitist.
Elitist is all good with one glaring exception and that's the flyrod trout nice tryholes who look down their nose at anyone that doesn't wear $800 worth of fishing duds and repeatedly cast a $1,000 rod/reel to catch a 14" trout.
"Elitist" isn't bad unless the person uses their skills in a particular interest to disrespect others.
Last, "elitist" reflects poorly on the person using the term if they intend to smear anyone who they don't understand, or, are scared of, or both. The word is widely used by one particular demographic in our country; those people also characterized by their hypocrisy, greed, dishonesty and shamelessness. |
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| I think that most of the muskie community isn't elitist. I've found that those who have the elitist attitudes are the loudest ones, but there are far more quiet anglers than loud elitist anglers.
That being said, I will say that many muskie anglers are proud anglers, and rightly so. We chase fish that are notoriously difficult to catch and behave in a way that leads to all sorts of confusion and addiction (even Jeremy Wade from River Monsters got hooked on muskies). For many people a good season may mean only boating 10-12 fish. I can't think of any other sport fish with that sort of statistic (except maybe Marlin). Lastly the muskie community employs some of the best fish handling practices leading to very low delayed mortality, this alone is enough to justify pride. |
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Location: oswego, il | joh10891 - 4/17/2021 8:58 AM
One thing that I suspect keeps muskie fishing from being too elitist is that it just takes so many hours and is such a low numbers fish to target. Many folks will often be happy to stick one fish on a week trip. It’s more like deer hunting in that sense moreso than fishing. Whereas with bass, folks can fish a lake for a day and compare limits of X or Y lbs caught, that’s much more difficult in muskie fishing. Also, we have more folks ‘swinging for the fences’: trying to catch the biggest fish of their life on any given trip. A lot of times, I’ll exclusively fish massive baits that I know will turn off smaller muskies, but that’s not what I’m targeting. So the timeline is spread out much further, almost into a lifetime, rather than how many fish or lb limit was caught in a given day.
All of this is to say that with muskies, there’s much less of a defined comparison benchmark for a ‘good’ versus ‘average’ or ‘bad’ angler because frankly we just catch so few fish overall. We can't as easily say "fancy gear X allowed me to catch Y fish, versus that other person with less fancy gear B that caught C fish". So I think that keeps egos in check, and the sport is much less focused on competition, which I suspect is highly coorelated with elitisim.
Post a pic of a 50 that might look 48 here or anywhere. Your bones will be picked clean. This is a massive ego hero worship sport. There are factions and big drama. If you are involved at any level other than your own person, it will find you. That's not to say everyone is like that the sport is filled with great people. If you are around long enough you get to hear the stories that make you shake your head. Some of it has played out here over the years. I also would not go anywhere for a week to catch a single muskie.
Edited by ToddM 4/17/2021 4:31 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Muskie Gal - 4/17/2021 7:44 AM
Ever been around a bass tournament?
Yes, for several years, the FLW Tour and the Bassmaster Elites, some qualifiers and the FLW Cup and Classic. Also a guest media for BPS during BPS pro days. Some of the most genuine folks I have ever had the pleasure to talk with and interview. You won't find more down to Earth folks than Jay Yelas, Ott DeFoe, Edwin Evers, Skeet Reese, Jeff Gustafson, Alton Jones, and many others fishing those circuits. Spent some time in the boat and at a few BPS dinners with Kevin VanDam, a nice guy and a tremendous angler to boot. In the several years I worked some of the tournaments I never met one pro who didn't have the time to let me shoot an interview or get a good image. Polite folks to a person for me, and I am just an annoying media guy. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | sworrall - 4/19/2021 9:27 PM
Muskie Gal - 4/17/2021 7:44 AM
Ever been around a bass tournament?
Yes, for several years, the FLW Tour and the Bassmaster Elites. Some of the most genuine folks I have ever had the pleasure to talk with and interview. You won't find more down to Earth folks than Jay Yelas, Ott DeFoe, Edwin Evers, Skeet Reese, Jeff Gustafson, Alton Jones, and many others fishing those circuits. Spent some time in the boat and at a few BPS dinners with Kevin VanDam, a nice guy and a tremendous angler to boot. In the several years I worked some of the tournaments I never met one pro who didn't have the time to let me shoot an interview or get a good image. Polite folks to a person for me, and I am just an annoying media guy.
I met Ike, Van Dam and Bobby Lane. All 3 were awesome guys and sat and humored me by listening to my BS fishing talked for a few minutes. I don’t care for bass fishing but I respect their sport immensely. |
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| i just started fly fishing for musky. i am now super elitist. |
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| eljefe - 4/27/2021 3:31 PM
i just started fly fishing for musky. i am now super elitist.
Nah, just a masochist. |
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| eljefe - 4/27/2021 3:31 PM
i just started fly fishing for musky. i am now super elitist.
Only if you get all your #*#* from Orvis... |
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Location: Kronenwetter, WI | Jerks are everywhere. So are nice guys. Know the difference. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It does seem we might be a bit overly dramatic at times.
I can't express how amusing I find the idea it's cool to have suffered SO in our chosen entertainment as we 'Ground it out', 'kept pounding,' or some other extreme self-sacrificial action proving our manhood somehow, against all odds, continuing.... to fish.
No. It's fishing, not mortal combat.
And what is it with all the odd grammar? There is a G at the end of casting, fishing, etc. And is not 'n.
There are no longer proper names, only the guy's first name followed by 'Outdoors' |
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Location: Western U.P. | No, but unfortunately, a lot of people that fish for Muskies have. There are elitists everywhere, but we're talking Muskies here. You don't need a certain rod, reel, lure, boat, electronics, technique, etc to catch a Musky, as some people believe. Guides (some well known), or others that drive up to your boat while you're fishing claiming that this is "their" spot... is just crazy stuff. I've fished with more than one person in this M1 group that I would rather not, or won't fish with again, just because of their attitude. I just want to fish as often as possible, have fun/enjoy it while I can, hopefully learn something that I didn't know before, and catch fish. Fortunately, I now live in a relatively rural area, with a lot of smaller Musky lakes with light fishing pressure, so I don't have to deal with as much of the BS/drama that a lot of you do. Be open minded, and learn. Life's too short to be a butthead. Fish on everyone. |
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| sworrall - 4/27/2021 10:49 PM
It does seem we might be a bit overly dramatic at times.
I can't express how amusing I find the idea it's cool to have suffered SO in our chosen entertainment as we 'Ground it out', 'kept pounding,' or some other extreme self-sacrificial action proving our manhood somehow, against all odds, continuing.... to fish.
No. It's fishing, not mortal combat.
And what is it with all the odd grammar? There is a G at the end of casting, fishing, etc. And is not 'n.
There are no longer proper names, only the guy's first name followed by 'Outdoors'
Dramatic is a good term. I read where you need a 72" shaft on your trolling motor so when fishing 3-4ft waves it doesn't get clear of water or how you need at least a $400 rain suit to stay dry while fishing in a monsoon and wonder: Were these folks sentenced by a judge to fish, regardless of conditions? |
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Location: Michigan | sworrall - 4/27/2021 11:49 PM
It does seem we might be a bit overly dramatic at times.
I can't express how amusing I find the idea it's cool to have suffered SO in our chosen entertainment as we 'Ground it out', 'kept pounding,' or some other extreme self-sacrificial action proving our manhood somehow, against all odds, continuing.... to fish.
No. It's fishing, not mortal combat.
My favorite is people refusing to wear handling gloves as they consider it 'soft'. I don't understand how being smart enough to not get injured is 'less manly' haha. |
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Location: oswego, il | There are those who thrive on the drama and love to create it. |
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| "Blessings upon all who hate contention and love quietness and virtue and angling." |
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| The only real elite-ish thing I have found over the decades with musky stuff is the price of all the equipment. It leads me to have used stuff, old stuff, and not be in the loop as i had been when younger and spent more time on the water for skis. A person has to choose where to enter the sport of fishing, and where it all ends. You can shore fish somewhere, or be in a loaded boat. You can take big trips, or go to a local spot. Most of all this discussion is about people and how they act, and we come in all shapes and levels of idiotness, which will never end. Choose to be better than average. Have a great season all! |
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| So do anglers targeting different species, end up catching a Kraken aka. Muskie, become part of the elite automatically, just because the bars run vertically instead of being horizontal? Huuuge egos; blue pill. 
Edited by szczochu13 5/1/2021 10:34 AM
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Location: oswego, il | szczochu13 - 5/1/2021 10:29 AM
So do anglers targeting different species, end up catching a Kraken aka. Muskie, become part of the elite automatically, just because the bars run vertically instead of being horizontal? Huuuge egos; blue pill. ;)
It depends.on how bad ass your buff looks |
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| Would have to dig in quite a bit. Yours? Were you able to get in front of the line to get the shot as part of the endorsement?
Edited by szczochu13 5/1/2021 11:14 AM
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| I've had guys get mad at me for calling them "musky snobs", because in their videos they catch a really nice fish, but it is a bass or a pike, and they are like "DAMMIT !!" Come on guys, ya, it's not what you were hoping for... but you caught a fish!!!, Be happy, it's not taking all that much of your time... it's not destroying your bait. I see it a lot with pike... guys treating it like they have a leper on the line. |
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Location: Walker, MN | ToddM - 5/1/2021 11:00 AM
szczochu13 - 5/1/2021 10:29 AM
So do anglers targeting different species, end up catching a Kraken aka. Muskie, become part of the elite automatically, just because the bars run vertically instead of being horizontal? Huuuge egos; blue pill. ;)
It depends.on how bad ass your buff looks
My Costa monocle popped out reading this. |
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Is Muskie Fishing Becoming Elitist?