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Posts: 410
Location: With my son on the water | Who pulls the bait away from small fish?
I know to many this sound nuts. When my boat partner first did this 30+ years ago up on LOTW I thought he was nuts, but I now do it too. When a bunch of us were reminiscing about past trips one of the guys brought up, (how many total fish do you think we would have caught if we hadn't pulled the lure from the small ones? HOW TRUE
I guess our reasoning for doing this is 1. We don't want to injure small fish. 2. Even with a small fish it can take valuable time sometime to unhook a fish. 3. But mainly during prime time on prime water we are all after Miss Big.
You know muskie fishing has almost turned into a form of Quality Deer Management which is so common and has worked well in many area. I am certainly not telling anyone what to do, in-fact novice anglers should boat as many as they can so they know how to handle a fish (both on the line and in the net). Bass fishing for kids is a great introduction to muskie fishing IMO.
But I know guys always like to talk about HOW MANY, I am just curious how many of you guys truly focus on the HOW BIG?
I would imagine I will have people throwing BS on me about this post but they did that when we wanted to stock Green Bay too and look how that turned out.
Enjoy your day guys and have a good weekend. Don't forget the PFD and the boat lights.
Brad  |
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Posts: 105
Location: Jane Lew, WV | I typically do not. If they are hungry and willing, I let them eat. Now Brad, I was fishing a tourney early last summer and did this. Sub-30" fish that would have took time from fishing for something that would log points. In my area, we don't have a whole lot of 'Miss Bigs'. There are some tanker fish no doubt but the average is 36" or so. With that being said, and my limited time to fish - I will take any that I can get. Tightlines pal. |
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Posts: 386
| I try to if it's not too late. Usually anything mid 30's and under I will pull the bait out of the water. I think it's great guys get excited about those fish, but I'm not on the water to catch a 30" fish. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Reason #1 in your list is reason enough, btfish. The other two reasons are just icing on the cake.
There is ALWAYS the risk of delayed mortality in these fish, no matter what we do. Is it significant? Probably not as much as some of the literature suggests. However it does exist, and there's nothing we're going to do to complete eliminate it...short of stop catching muskies. And one thing that's absolutely certain: You can't have big muskies without them being small muskies first. So if there's no "benefit" to catching a small fish, especially if you're fishing big fish waters, then why bother?
That said, I'm all for taking musky neophytes to a "small fish lake" to get them experience--something like Moose lake near Hayward. The risk of delayed mortality will still be there for any fish caught there as well, but last I heard that fishery could actually use a few less small fish.
The other thing that I personally do, is to fish with barbless hooks. Well...I squash the barbs down on regular hooks. I just haven't found that it cost me any fish. Certainly it may, but I fish alone the majority of the time and it makes handling them after the catch SO much easier (and safer).
TB |
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Posts: 132
| If I am going out for a couple hours in the evening after a week of work - I will catch a 34"er if it wants to eat.
Now, if I am up on LOTW and we are in prime time or a day with prime conditions - I may think twice. Especially if we are one a spot where we know a big one is hanging out.
Edited by RunNGun 6/15/2017 7:23 AM
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Posts: 1209
| I try to pull it out if it doesn't appear over 40" |
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | I no longer take photos or measurements of fish under the mid 40's usually, and will just "net release" anything under 35. But pulling baits away? That's just not my style, nor will it ever be. In my opinion you take what you are given.
Edited by Musky Brian 6/15/2017 8:19 AM
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Location: Contrarian Island | sub 30s yes, I will pull the bait away, rather not hurt the little buggers, I don't pull baits away from fish over, in fact I think each fish you trigger in the 8 you can learn from...more data how fish react the better, there is no way for you to know if that fish would have hit or if you would have caught it when you pull it away, only makes your game better for when the big ones show up.... can learn a lot from each hit/figure 8/contact ... guys that fish w me have told me I am one of the better figure 8ers they have seen, I'm a firm believer it is from learning from each encounter and you can't do that when you pull the bait away.... but to each their own as the saying goes.
Edited by BNelson 6/15/2017 8:37 AM
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Posts: 897
| I find it helps my fish per hour number to catch every one that wants to bite!
Just kidding, sort of... I don't pull my bait away from anything, but I won't throw back on dinks more than once! Haha. I like catching fish of all shapes and sizes, if they want to bite my lure who am I to say no! I don't take measurements of anything sub-40 unless in a contest/tournament, but still take pictures of almost every musky since it only takes a few seconds. |
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Location: MN | Like Mr Sondag once said, 'you don't want to smarten up the young ones'.
I'll pull it away from little guys on certain waters. |
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Posts: 141
Location: Minnetonka | What Bnelson said...It's a low risk chance to try new triggering moves. If something doesn't work, no big deal. If something does work, reach down with a pliers and pluck 'em off. They're not likely to swallow a bait during a figure 8.
Edited by MuskyMatt71 6/15/2017 8:46 AM
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Posts: 261
| Howdy,
I work too hard to catch muskies as it is so I do not pull the lure away from a muskie, regardless of its size. That said, I also use barbless hooks most of the time and find that the barb, even when hooks are cut, is often more of a menace to the fish than the catching is.
At some point, and I mean this with all due respect, we need to come to terms with the fact that, as fisherman, we are spending the majority of our day trying to drive the sharpest and biggest hooks we can find into the face of a fish we love to catch.
To me there seems to be an Ike Turner quality to this endeavor in that our after the fact desire to look out for the best interests of the fish runs contrary to our efforts to injure it for our own personal enjoyment.
Take care,
Ruddiger
Edited by Ruddiger 6/15/2017 9:20 AM
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Location: Contrarian Island | ok so to play devils advocate, you're worried about the barb harming a fish, and not the actual hook, don't you think that is a bit hypocritical? I mean the barb is what, 1 mm? and the hook itself is how big? if you are worried about the barb injuring a fish, then don't fish with hooks at all... proper unhooking starts with a good Knipex and cutting the hook when in doubt... we should all take great care in handling and unhooking but to point blame on the barb? c'mon. not buying it.
while I respect you crimping the barb, it just seems silly to me to say that you're worried about harming a fish when you are putting a 5/0 hook in them barb or no barb...
Edited by BNelson 6/15/2017 9:09 AM
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Posts: 132
| At some point, and I mean this with all due respect, we need to come to terms with the fact that, as fisherman, we are spending the majority of our day trying to drive the sharpest and biggest hooks we can find into the face of a fish we love to catch.
To me there seems to be an Ike Turner quality to to this endeavor in that our after the fact desire to look out for the best interests of the fish runs contrary to our efforts to injure it for our own personal enjoyment.
I've thought about this, as well. The whole musky fishing process does seem somewhat contradictory. We all love the fish and do everything in our power to take care of them and release them safely. But, in order to do that, you may have to drive two 7/0 treble hooks into the side of it's face... |
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Posts: 155
| Heck no. Maybe if I was a guide and on the water everyday, but when you are a weekend warrior any size fish is a thrill. At least to me.
If it is really small, sub 30....then maybe I would pull away
I have a feeling most guy's that claim they do this really don't....makes for good "fish stories"
Edited by T.Carlson 6/15/2017 9:20 AM
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Posts: 261
| BNelson - 6/15/2017 10:07 AM
ok so to play devils advocate, you're worried about the barb harming a fish, and not the actual hook, don't you think that is a bit hypocritical? I mean the barb is what, 1 mm? and the hook itself is how big? if you are worried about the barb injuring a fish, then don't fish with hooks at all... proper unhooking starts with a good Knipex and cutting the hook when in doubt... we should all take great care in handling and unhooking but to point blame on the barb? c'mon. not buying it.
while I respect you crimping the barb, it just seems silly to me to say that you're worried about harming a fish when you are putting a 5/0 hook in them barb or no barb...
Howdy,
Respectfully, you may have missed my point or I failed to more properly articulate it. My concern for the impact or harm caused by the bard is not at all greater than my concern for the impact or harm caused by the hook. That would be silly. My concern for the barb is the delay it causes for releasing the fish.
I carry two pair of Knipex in the boat and am happy to cut hooks when needed. We do it all the time if we can't immediately get the hooks out. Even that though is not perfect as pieces of hook can still be left in the fish. Plus, not everyone carries Knipex (as much as we would like them to) and most fisherman don't fish barbless or cut hooks in a timely fashion.
The point of my Ike Turner analogy was that we as group do a lot of intentional harm to the fish we love. We jam giant hooks into their face, drag them against their will to the surface and from depths and water temperatures they otherwise prefer, we split their fins in our nets, we suffocate them as we hold them out of the water for pictures, and even when we cut hooks we occasionally leave shards of metal in their mouths to hopefully rust out. And thats on a good release!
It's absolutely fantastic that we do all that we can to mitigate that after the fact. Much like its great that Ike offered Tina an icepack after repeatedly beating her. None the less, wether my ice pack includes the use of a cradle, barbless hooks and Knipex when needed, or another person's icepack includes a giant Beckman, Knipex, and a no camera policy, we are still at odds with our earlier efforts to injure the fish for our enjoyment. So, while its great that we did all that can to mitigate the last 10% of harm to the fish, we still gave 110% of our effort to causing the other 90% of harm.
This is not at all to say we shouldn't do all that we can to do a quick release and to properly care for the fish until it swims away under its own power. We absolutely should and most of us do! With rare exception I bet all of us have followed a released fish on the surface until we were sure it was ok.
But at some point I feel like muskie fisherman as a whole (myself included) can be hypocritical and over the top on the subject, overly judgmental of others and overly confrontational with others when it comes to how they handle fish. To paraphrase Seinfeld, some of us can act like "release-nazis" when it comes to judging how others are releasing fish, handling fish, keeping fish, fishing during the hot summer months, etc. Yet we conveniently ignore the damage we are doing to the fish.
Having said all of that, I plan to catch a lot of fish this summer with really sharp barbless hooks. I'm gonna get a picture of it it its a really nice one. I'll get even more pictures of it if my daughter catches it. I'll do my very best to make sure its released unharmed and I'll immediately try to do it again to an even bigger one.
Take care,
Ruddiger
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Location: Contrarian Island | agreed!  what makes me cringe is the newer guys in the sport we see out there that have the fish out of the water for excessive periods of time getting 20 pics from 6 angles... to me, what harms fish the most isn't the hooks in it, it's the time out of the water, flopping around in their boat, etc.. get em back quick. good stuff Ruddiger, and I see your point now... |
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Posts: 1209
| Earlier I said I pull away from sub 40" but that will make me kick myself in a tournament someday seeing as 30" score, but if I'm throwning a lure trying to get 50+" with 7/0 hooks I don't need to hurt any jaw of a fish that I am not hunting, like you don't shoot the little deer when your looking for the tirdy-point buck. Because when a small northern gets a large Muskie hook we have seen some terrible results even though we have nipex, so I don't need to catch them. If I have a smaller hooked lure it wouldn't bother me to practice fig-8 but to me I don't care, I don't judge others and would suggest to new people to get everyone they can to build confidence. |
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | I'm with TCarlson here....I'm guessing the number of 38/39" fish that have baits pulled away from them might look a little different in person than here in the ol forum |
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Location: Contrarian Island | yah a guy goes a few trips w out a fish in the boat, and a fat 39 comes charging in, yah sure he is pulling the bait away! yahhhh riiiiiight |
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Posts: 735
Location: Apparently where the Muskie aren't | Since I'm still looking for number 1 anything goes for me right now. The only way I'm pulling the bait away from a fish is if it's so small the hook set will launch it into the boat. After my first it will probaly be any fish smaller than 24" gets the bait taken away because I find them just to hard to handle. I've got hooks in me multiple time while trying to handle a 24" pike. In fact my worst "hook in the hand" experience was with a 10" pike. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | I crimp the barbs down so as to facilitate ease of release, more than anything else. As I mentioned, I fish alone much of the time and I've spent quite a while (on several occasions) trying to get six hooks from two trebles, out of a 45+" fish...in 2-3 foot waves. In near-freezing water temps. Yeah, that's fun. The one ~54" fish had every hook well inside its mouth--and the end of the lure itself was a couple inches inside the fish's mouth.
I'll wager that was the last fish I'll catch on barbed hooks, fishing solo.
TB |
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Posts: 343
| I will pull my lure away from a sub-30", but anything over 30" I generally try to catch. Most of the fisheries I fish aren't known for supertankers and some are small fish (new fisheries) so I try to stay sharp. With my bone cancer, I need to practice hooksets as my arm strength is lacking. |
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Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | One man's syrup is another man's vinegar. It is up to the individual to decide. Just do your best to take care of them once hooked. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | so, if you can't put a number on a fish without putting it on a bump board first, then how do you determine which fish to catch and the ones not to catch? ... sometimes the rules are so confusing, and for that i'm glad there are M1sters to help out. |
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| I find it easier to judge by weight. I pull away from anything under 15 lbs. |
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Posts: 1971
| I have no interest in catching fish that I know are under 36" .... that's why I'm using 9"+ baits, bigger baits are producing well |
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Posts: 3136
| Definitely in November!! I don't want cold numb stinging hands on something less then 45 unhooking it,,that's trophy time!!! |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | Since muskies don't fight as hard as most saltwater fish I pull my bait away from all of them, regardless of size.
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Location: Contrarian Island | ^^^ that one about made me spit out my water! |
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Posts: 255
| I hate fish with a hook in the side, three points of treble in the mouth and one in the eye. Bigger fish handle better. Small fish thrash and can twist too much. Don't like bleeding fingers or net tangles. Don't care what hits a spinnerbait, but I would let anything under 28-30 watch their meal fly into the sky. Do small fish factor well into muskie feeding patterns?- for those of you that fish more than I do. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Flambeauski - 6/15/2017 1:43 PM
Since muskies don't fight as hard as most saltwater fish I pull my bait away from all of them, regardless of size.
Wow...and here I thought that I was a good troller.
I bow to your greatness!
TB |
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Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | I use a specialized barcode scanner to determine muskie size. Along time ago on a popular site prior to this i posted i caught a 28" musky on a figure eight. The fish came from under the boat and blasted it. I didnt post that part. A guy from a state who hands the ball off to a really dumb running back got every one of his panties bunched in a knot. Funny stuff.
Edited by ToddM 6/15/2017 2:33 PM
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Posts: 8720
| Not that a 30"er is unworthy of my time, but those are the ones that are throwing hooks around in the net and going nuts when you lift them. Those are the ones that thrash and get dropped. (Hopefully flung over the side) I've taken lures away from a few, and thought "crap, I think that was a pike. I wanted to eat that..."
Agree with Nelson on the figure 8 thing, but the little ones can turn so fast and take so many swipes at a lure it's hard NOT to catch them. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | I don't pull out. |
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Posts: 841
Location: Southwest PA | Pointerpride102 - 6/15/2017 6:13 PM
I don't pull out.
Wow... you went there didn't ya? Hehehe |
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Posts: 155
| Pointerpride102 - 6/15/2017 5:13 PM
I don't pull out.
HAHAHA!! |
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Posts: 1000
| below ~34" i'll take it away from them, but I do like to try and have a little fun with them in the process. See how hard they can turns, how fast the can swim, and if I can get them to jump out of the water for it.
Had a 32 literally pin a slammer against my hull two seasons ago. I probably deserved those scratches...
Edited by tolle141 6/15/2017 6:58 PM
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Location: Apparently where the Muskie aren't | Anything smaller than 31 3/16" gets the bait pulled away. |
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| This thread has now became the same thread from last year or two years ago. 31 and 11/16th gets caught haha |
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Location: Apparently where the Muskie aren't | Fishysam - 6/15/2017 7:54 PM
This thread has now became the same thread from last year or two years ago. 31 and 11/16th gets caught haha
I personally like to measure my fish before I catch them.
If I'm not sure about a fishes size I like to begin by politely asking him or her to take a seat on the bump board to make sure they meet the minimum size requirement. If they meet the catchable size requirement I will then place the fish back into the water and we will resume where we left off (me going into a figure 8 and the fish following hot behind)
Edited by Musky_Mo16 6/15/2017 8:05 PM
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Posts: 841
Location: Southwest PA | Glad to see I'm not the only one with a laser measuring tool... how do you guys get them to stay still while you measure to their tail and then their head when they're coming in hot? My biggest concern isn't the little guy getting hooked so much as it is my laser blinding him if I accidentally catch em in the eye! |
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Posts: 558
| The little spotted ones make sweet pics along with the big girls. Give me all of them, I not a hater.
It honestly doesn't take that long to unhook a little one. Quick sweet little spotted pic and gone like the wind. |
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Posts: 260
Location: Lockport, IL | Is that laser calibrated to include a tail pinch? |
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Posts: 4
| I am new to the whole musky fishing thing. I think I get excited and pull the bait away anytime I see a fish |
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Location: Apparently where the Muskie aren't | Rainman JD - 6/15/2017 10:15 PM
Is that laser calibrated to include a tail pinch?
That's the fancy one, if you want it to include tail pinch you need to get the "ski-sizer 2.0" and that will run ya $800 compared to the $700 of the "ski-sizer 1.0" |
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Posts: 390
| I am going to put a measuring tape to the out side of the hull. That way when they follow to the boat I can make sure they are above 30 11/16 . |
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Posts: 255
| When the size limit in WI was 32 and I was a newbie I had a very different perspective on size compared to the new limits. A 3 fish day in, say 1992, seemed like such huge success. But they were all 33 and 32. . Nowadays those don't even get a photo. |
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Posts: 86
| I fish a very small river close to the house. It has a good population of musky
Under 30". There are also some nice fish swimming there too.
I have been pulling away from small fish say 24-26" I won't pull away
From a 30 but them two footers are good at getting hooks n the eye and gills.
Anyway, I recently seen were people were showing pics of fish under the 36 size limit
from another small river in a different area of the state.
Got me thinking that giving these small fish as gental of an
Education as possible might not be a bad idea.
Maybe they'll get some size to them before they get caught again.
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Location: St. Lawrence River | I am feeding the coals to any fish that eats my lure. I will really put the boots to her, and play her out boatside like im on film. I then require 5-6 pictures. Regardless of size. |
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Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | I am going to put warning signs on my baits and the side of my boat to ward off small fish. I do not need to register with the police every time a catch a small fish. |
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Posts: 841
Location: Southwest PA | Musky_Mo16 - 6/16/2017 12:04 AM
Rainman JD - 6/15/2017 10:15 PM
Is that laser calibrated to include a tail pinch?
That's the fancy one, if you want it to include tail pinch you need to get the "ski-sizer 2.0" and that will run ya $800 compared to the $700 of the "ski-sizer 1.0"
It would, but it would need 1.21 jiggawatts to power the tail pinch feature and i dont like being on the water in a thunderstorm... |
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Posts: 3136
| I refused to buy Charlize Theron a drink once!!!! |
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Posts: 119
| I watched my buddy pull off of a low 30s fish a few years ago and I gave him a hard time about it. But as I've gotten older and hopefully more *mature* - I think that he did the right thing. I haven't had a situation arise like since that time but if I'm ever faced with it, I'm not sure I'll pull out even though it might be the right thing to do. When you see one fish a day or you get skunked on a few trips it gets increasingly hard lol. |
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Location: oswego, il | happy hooker - 6/16/2017 6:56 PM
I refused to buy Charlize Theron a drink once!!!!
You should be banned from eating pizza! |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I just jab 'em in the top of the head with the rod tip. |
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Posts: 293
Location: Sakatchewan,Canada | BNelson - 6/15/2017 9:07 AM
ok so to play devils advocate, you're worried about the barb harming a fish, and not the actual hook, don't you think that is a bit hypocritical? I mean the barb is what, 1 mm? and the hook itself is how big? if you are worried about the barb injuring a fish, then don't fish with hooks at all... proper unhooking starts with a good Knipex and cutting the hook when in doubt... we should all take great care in handling and unhooking but to point blame on the barb? c'mon. not buying it.
while I respect you crimping the barb, it just seems silly to me to say that you're worried about harming a fish when you are putting a 5/0 hook in them barb or no barb...
Completely ignorant statement on your part. Barbless does way less damage to the fish unless you are cutting every hook, known fact. No need to leave the fish with a mouthful of steel either, therefore barbless is way healthier for the fish. Why do you think so many northern remote lodges in Canada are barbless? Because the fish are their business and they don't want to harm them. I have fished both, and barbless is 100% without doubt much better for the fish. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Yah. So is not fishing. I get barbless is less harmful. Wasnt questioning that was I?? |
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| I start fishing barbless when the fish are super aggressive and inhaling baits. Makes unhooking the fish much easier and the fish release better. Otherwise I fish with barbs almost all of the time. I fished in Canada one trip and hated having to pinch the barbs but I did it. |
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Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | I pinched a barb once while musky fishing. I could not see out of my left eye for a week. |
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Posts: 426
| I am always fishing for the biggest fish in the lake. That being said I've caught my share of sub 40 fish. For that reason I often stop reeling if I have a small fish following. That usually ends the pursuit. I would rather spend my time making additional casts than spending it unhooking smaller fish. The more cast I can make the better my chances to beat my personal best. My choice. My regular boat partner says fish is fish and goes for em all. What ever floats your boat! |
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Pulling a bait from small fish?