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Posts: 1516
| How do you figure out the major and minor feeding windows without using an app on your phone or other device if you know SR, SS, MR &MS times? |
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Location: Contrarian Island | majors are the hour before and after moon overhead and underfoot... minors are the 30 min on each side of the MR/MS.
to figure out moon overhead and underfoot you just split the difference from MS/MR... |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | It's interesting that the Solunar tables put out by John Alden Knight, who was the originator of the concept as far as I know, do not comport to moon overhead or underfoot. They are more random times throughout the day and are some sort of compilation of sun, moon and tides if I recall. Lots of guys, including many of the guides, go by the book more than overhead or underfoot. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I found that to be odd too..but if you read his book, he says that the majors are set to overhead and underfoot... imo some tables that don't follow that are incorrect.
Edited by BNelson 2/14/2017 3:43 PM
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Posts: 1516
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Posts: 2280
Location: Chisholm, MN | Also, the moon is not on a 24 hour schedule like the sun. I believe it's almost 24 hours and 50 minutes between rise and sets. So do your figuring based on that. Correct me if I'm wrong. I use an app so I don't think about it much. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | depends where you are located as to how much time between rise and set....it varies each day/month as well.. it's not the same every day how long it is up or down |
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Posts: 155
| Propster - 2/14/2017 3:39 PM
It's interesting that the Solunar tables put out by John Alden Knight, who was the originator of the concept as far as I know, do not comport to moon overhead or underfoot. They are more random times throughout the day and are some sort of compilation of sun, moon and tides if I recall. Lots of guys, including many of the guides, go by the book more than overhead or underfoot.
My catch data seems to correlate more with the John Alden Knight times, rather than solely going off the moon rise/set/overhead/underfoot times... could be a coincidence.
I had an APP a while back that matched the John Alden Knight times, but I can't find it anymore. Does anyone know if it still exists?
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Posts: 34
Location: Illinois | T.Carlson - 2/14/2017 4:04 PM
Propster - 2/14/2017 3:39 PM
It's interesting that the Solunar tables put out by John Alden Knight, who was the originator of the concept as far as I know, do not comport to moon overhead or underfoot. They are more random times throughout the day and are some sort of compilation of sun, moon and tides if I recall. Lots of guys, including many of the guides, go by the book more than overhead or underfoot.
My catch data seems to correlate more with the John Alden Knight times, rather than solely going off the moon rise/set/overhead/underfoot times... could be a coincidence.
I had an APP a while back that matched the John Alden Knight times, but I can't find it anymore. Does anyone know if it still exists?
I believe the ISolunar app follows it |
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Posts: 431
| Last year I finally started paying attention to it. I don't know why I always was a skeptic, it makes perfect sense. I definitely noticed a HEAVY correlation with musky encounters on Lake St Clair around moon rise. Undeniable. My wife is a nurse in a maximum security prison with a criminally insane ward and I asked her to pay attention to the solunar charts when they have crazy behavior issues (fights, guys harming themselves, attacks on guards, ect), and she says theres a definite correlation, and they cant even see the moon typically. The biggest one she noticed though was full moon directly overhead. Virtually every time there is full moon directly overhead they end up with a "lockdown" for some reason or another, which typically only happens a couple times a month. Its really fascinating if your a geek like me. |
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Posts: 1405
Location: Detroit River | tackleaddict - 2/15/2017 8:04 AM Last year I finally started paying attention to it. I don't know why I always was a skeptic, it makes perfect sense. I definitely noticed a HEAVY correlation with musky encounters on Lake St Clair around moon rise. Undeniable. 95% of the fish I catch on LSC are outside of the major & minors with the other 5% mostly around moon set. I catch most of my fish within the 1st hour to hour & a 1/2 of a major weather front moving in or moving out. Earlier in the season I see more activity when a weather front is moving in & later in the season I see more activity when the weather front is moving out. I think the current going through LSC throws out the moon phase theory on most days. |
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Posts: 431
| We had 3 days out in a row last fall, fishing around the Spillway where we spent 5 hours or so leading up to moonrise and saw nothing, then had action around the rise. It also happened to me and a guy from this sight a few weeks earlier at those secret gravel piles. The trip that started me paying attention was August, 2015 with Mastical at the dumping grounds. We fished the early morning with no action for a few hours, all of a sudden he caught a 49, then we had hits and follows from other smaller fish for a frenzy of maybe 30-40 minutes. After it died off one of us noticed that the moon was just up over the horizon. I believe in moon-rise on LSC for sure after watching it last year. You are right though, the weather fronts are huge too. What kind of moon correlations do you see on your sturgeon fishing?
Edited by tackleaddict 2/15/2017 7:57 AM
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Posts: 112
Location: Illinois | Weather fronts trumps moon phase. I always try to plan my trips around moon phases though. There is a correlation (in my limited opinion). I will say I have had more success on new moons than on full moons. But I rarely fish after dark. |
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Posts: 833
| Weather > Moon that is a certainty. I've experienced too many "prime" moon days end up as a total bust due to poor weather conditions.
The moon shouldn't be dismissed though. I've had many week long fishing trips where the bite has been consistent around a moon event. One thing that I've noticed is that it also can involve a time of day. Like for example, it is an AM bite around Moon Under foot for several days. The bite might be 9AM, 10AM, 11AM over three days, but always in the AM and around the Major. Other times it might 9AM, 10AM, 11AM around the Minor. Can be any time of the day, just giving an example.
I can't explain why this is the case, but I've had it happen too many times to discount it.
Photo Periods can also make a difference. I'm sure most on here have had fish go during sunup/sundown/first dark.
To me the real key in all of this is fishing consistently enough to identify the window and then start capitalizing on it while it is active. |
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Posts: 2280
Location: Chisholm, MN | I think it's pretty obvious that the moon has a major influence on fish feeding activity. Most of us can agree on that. And it's not the only thing that makes them bite, but I really think that most of my bites come within a major or a minor. As far as current having an influence, you're probably right. I don't fish rivers very often so I just don't know.
Brad P - I agree on the time of day thing as well. Last fall a lot of my action came in late afternoon. Yes, there would be a moon influence at that time, but no action during moon times at other times of the day. The sun would just be getting low and light would change. The water color looked different and the fish would bite.
Edited by Kirby Budrow 2/15/2017 8:28 AM
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Location: Contrarian Island | read his book "Moon up, Moon down"...it's an easy read and sheds some light on the moon and activity... as noted by others, weather trumps moon but as musky fishermen, where 1 hit can make or break a day, or trip, anything we can do to increase the odds of getting a hit, we should pay attention...the moon is just one of those things that will put more (and bigger) fish in your boat if you pay attention....
I can't even count how many big fish have hit right on the minute of a set/rise, underfoot/overhead type thing... it's eery. and happened too many times to discount as coincedence...
Edited by BNelson 2/15/2017 9:53 AM
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Posts: 2005
| tackleaddict - 2/15/2017 7:04 AM
Last year I finally started paying attention to it. I don't know why I always was a skeptic, it makes perfect sense. I definitely noticed a HEAVY correlation with musky encounters on Lake St Clair around moon rise. Undeniable. My wife is a nurse in a maximum security prison with a criminally insane ward and I asked her to pay attention to the solunar charts when they have crazy behavior issues (fights, guys harming themselves, attacks on guards, ect), and she says theres a definite correlation, and they cant even see the moon typically. The biggest one she noticed though was full moon directly overhead. Virtually every time there is full moon directly overhead they end up with a "lockdown" for some reason or another, which typically only happens a couple times a month. Its really fascinating if your a geek like me.
Are you inferring there's a strong positive correlation between the full moon and musky fishermen being crazy? |
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Posts: 1220
| My first winter down South has made me question a lot of things, but the "tides" are by far the most curious thing for one who never fished around tides before. Simply put, the tides go in and out largely as an effect of the moon. You just need to have a large enough body of water (say, the ocean) and you have tides. The obvious mental leap for me, is that whatever the moon (sun too) can do to something the size of the ocean, the same effects are in place for the lakes I fish all summer, even though the lakes are not big enough to have a tide created. Sooner or later (maybe in my old age) somebody is going to figure out why this is such a big deal at times and no visible effect at other times. My suspicion is that the math answer can be found somewhere between the data on a solunar table and the tide charts with appropriate adjusting for the actual latitude and longitude where you are fishing. When that happens, I'll be doing all my fishing in the 5-10 minutes each day when Tom Gelb says a musky will hit a beer can with treble hooks. All that extra time off will yield plenty of empty beer cans too! |
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Posts: 770
| Although, with the ocean tide creates current, which triggers fish to feed/ creates ambush areas for the fish. Not disagreeing with you at all, just adding a little input. |
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Posts: 146
Location: Shawano, Wi | Fishing and Hunting times pro is the app I swear by. |
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Location: Waukesha,Wisconsin | we use the free app called LUNA SOLARIA it has the rise, set, transit(overhead), and subtransit (underfoot). also has the solar positions and the age when the new/full moons are. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I use this one:
www.solunar-apps.com |
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Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | I pay attention to it and notice more often than not, it makes no difference. Every once in awhile it is spot on, most of the time it is a bust even in prime weather conditions and times. I will take weather and last light over the moon anytime.
Moon and ocean tide, different story. |
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Posts: 608
Location: S.W. WI | Ya, I'm with ToddM here, And I have a lot of data to back it up where I fish.
I fish alot, basically the same # of days-same hours- same lakes each week- each year. I have kept decent logs for over 12 yrs and there is little if any difference in regard to these supposed better moon times. period. ..But that's just me!!
I know this; if you mostly fish around certain times- you will mostly have luck around those times.
Edited by Rudedog 2/16/2017 2:01 PM
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Posts: 1405
Location: Detroit River | tackleaddict - 2/15/2017 8:56 AMWhat kind of moon correlations do you see on your sturgeon fishing? Most of my sturgeon trips this past year we missed the majors. The majors either fell right around the time we were getting out or were after we were getting off the water. There was only one trip that we noticed more activity after moon rise. Our best night this past season we hooked into 8 sturgeon & that started 2 hours after moon set. Weather fronts shut them down. |
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Posts: 155
| Rudedog - 2/16/2017 1:59 PM
Ya, I'm with ToddM here, And I have a lot of data to back it up where I fish.
I fish alot, basically the same # of days-same hours- same lakes each week- each year. I have kept decent logs for over 12 yrs and there is little if any difference in regard to these supposed better moon times. period. ..But that's just me!!
I know this; if you mostly fish around certain times- you will mostly have luck around those times.
If you ever get a chance to look at tournament data of what times fish are caught, it's shocking how much the moon can impact catch times....
Yes weather is always going to trump moon, but when weather is stable moon can be a big factor. By no means a guarantee, but I believe your odds increase.
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Posts: 815
Location: Waukee, IA | I have yet to see anybody produce tangible evidence of majors and minors producing more or bigger fish. I still keep track of minors/majors/set/rise data and try to use it to my advantage, but honestly it's just another mental trick to keep me casting. "It's almost the major, better really pay attention and fish my best spots." |
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Posts: 306
| "Ya, I'm with ToddM here, And I have a lot of data to back it up where I fish.
"I fish alot, basically the same # of days-same hours- same lakes each week- each year. I have kept decent logs for over 12 yrs and there is little if any difference in regard to these supposed better moon times. period. ..But that's just me!!
I know this; if you mostly fish around certain times- you will mostly have luck around those times. "
"I have yet to see anybody produce tangible evidence of majors and minors producing more or bigger fish. I still keep track of minors/majors/set/rise data and try to use it to my advantage, but honestly it's just another mental trick to keep me casting. "It's almost the major, better really pay attention and fish my best spots."
These for me.
Plan your trips around the moon,fish your best spots and really focus around the moon and,guess what?You catch fish.
Some would call that verifiable distortion.
Edited by dickP 2/16/2017 3:22 PM
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I kept detailed logs for over 20 years and found all fish came from wet places on days ending in Y and at that point quit keeping a log other than the one in my head. I kept records on over 1000 fish for moon age rather than position in the sky based on inches of fish caught per hour fished on each day of the moon month. Tabulations were done at the end of each season so I was not prepicking my days only fishing as I could which was a lot.( it's a wonder I've been married 48 years or maybe that's why). I found a slight increase around the full moon and slightly more around the new but not enough that I would plan a trip around it unless it was to plan to avoid crowds. Looking back i found for some unknown reason I seemed to catch a lot of fish between noon and 2pm.
All that being said 2 years ago on the afternoon and evening of the Sept full moon my partner and I put four 50 inch plus fish in the boat which on the St. Lawrence is a far from normal occurrence so who knows. It only proves most muskie guys are LUNATICS
Edited by horsehunter 2/16/2017 4:44 PM
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| I believe there's a much greater effect in saltwater fishing as fish and baitfish react to tidal changes. I have to say, though, my logs point to a definite correlation between the majors/minors and fish activity. |
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Posts: 79
| Self fulfilling prophecies to a degree.
Major and minors have an effect though. Years ago I had a silly musky prediction system that I kind of quit using as it is not fool proof: 1pt = low light, 1pt = major/minor, 1 point =favorable wind, 1pt =thunder in the area, and 1pt= tornado activity nearby. But I got skunked on a few 5 point days and crushed them on a few 1 point days.......so there went that. |
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Posts: 216
| dickP - 2/16/2017 3:19 PM
"Ya, I'm with ToddM here, And I have a lot of data to back it up where I fish.
"I fish alot, basically the same # of days-same hours- same lakes each week- each year. I have kept decent logs for over 12 yrs and there is little if any difference in regard to these supposed better moon times. period. ..But that's just me!!
I know this; if you mostly fish around certain times- you will mostly have luck around those times. "
"I have yet to see anybody produce tangible evidence of majors and minors producing more or bigger fish. I still keep track of minors/majors/set/rise data and try to use it to my advantage, but honestly it's just another mental trick to keep me casting. "It's almost the major, better really pay attention and fish my best spots."
These for me.
Plan your trips around the moon,fish your best spots and really focus around the moon and,guess what?You catch fish.
Some would call that verifiable distortion.
Dick
Please explain your comment. |
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Posts: 1000
| I use weather underground. Has all the pertinent times.
Typically I use the hours outside of the majors/minors to locate as many fish as possible. Once the window appears, I run n gun all those fish I located.
We did that last July on a rough night and popped 2 in 10 minutes. The moon effect is real. |
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Posts: 572
| I'm certainly not going to argue with others who have seen success correlating with moon events. All I can say is that I pay attention to the same variables and I, personally, and my boat, haven't seen any kind of quantifiable advantage in my numbers/logs. In fact, at one point plotting numbers/big fish catches on LOTW against moon events, I could actually make an argument, based on math, that my odds of success DECREASED during the relevant moon time phases. Not saying that's actually the case, just saying that I could make the argument.
Again, I'm certain that other, better anglers have different experiences/perspectives. I'm just sharing my own experience.
Edited by Matt DeVos 2/17/2017 10:53 PM
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Location: Eastern Ontario | If you look at enough tables you can probably find a window for any part of your day
Besides published best times which sometimes have a degree of correlation but usually different period lengths
Predawn
First light
Sun rise
Sun overhead
Dusk
Sunset
Last light
Full Dark
Moon rise
Moon overhead (directly)
Moon set
Moon Under (directly)
In a couple of articles Joe Boucher said fishing sucks when the moon was above the horizon which if you believe would eliminate half the daytime hours in any month.
Fish as hard as you can whenever you can and don't slack off because you think the time is wrong. There are definitely periods of increased feeding actively But I'm not smart enough to predict them I just want to be there. I have yet to catch a muskie carrying a copy of the solunar tables.
I DO HAVE A LOT OF FAITH IN READING CHICKEN ENTRAILS
Edited by horsehunter 2/18/2017 7:45 AM
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Dick is saying he doesn't see much correlation where he fishes, and he fishes a lot, and I agree with him and the others that are saying the same thing. |
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Posts: 210
| Major feeding window - when I catch a fish.
Minor feeding window - when bud catches a fish. |
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Posts: 8721
| 4 solar events each day combined with 4 lunar events each day, amplified by the proximity to full moon, new moon, and apogee... Great. Factor in seasonal progressions, and more importantly weather/frontal conditions...
90% of the fish live in 10% of the water...
Expecting your odds to increase during a major/minor requires you to be fishing in the right place, during favorable weather conditions, throwing the right lure and running it at the right speed at the right depth, and just the right time.
There's certainly merit in the solunar influence, but most of us don't fish nearly enough to take advantage of it in any meaningful way. My success is reflected in logs taken during a time in my life when I didn't have a job or any responsibilities in life and fished 4-5 days a week from the time the lakes thawed in the spring until they froze over in the fall.
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Location: Contrarian Island | it's interesting to see guys that don't believe in it having some effect... but talk to a number of guides or guys that year after year catch lots of huge fish and I bet 98% believe in it... me, I do... as I have seen it work out in my favor too many times to scoff at it.. weather trumps all but we are out there at times looking for 1 bite that can make or break a day or trip... anything to up our chances even just a tiny bit imo is worth watching.... reminds me of a time on Mille Lacs back about 10 yrs ago... we had fished 2 hours with I think just one follow, boats were lined up on the north shore weedline, sure enough, moonset came and we got a 46, and we saw numerous other camera flashes going off within seconds/minutes of moonset...then...nothing.... those that don't believe it works...ok fine, more for those of us who do! 
Edited by BNelson 2/24/2017 9:33 AM
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Posts: 132
| I agree, very interesting to hear guys not believing in it. My mindset flipped 100% a few years ago when I kept track of nearly every fish I caught. At the end of the year, I compared each boated fish to the solunar times, and something like 80% fell w/in one of these windows. That was a HUGE eye-opener for me. |
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Location: Waukee, IA | Lots of guys "believe" in it, but none offer data to back up their beliefs. Apply the scientific method and statistical analysis and a lot of beliefs start to look like fairy tales. |
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Posts: 132
| Right - fish in the net consistently during these periods is enough data for me. |
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Posts: 410
Location: With my son on the water | IMO this has gotten into peoples head that this is the only time to fish and that is when people are fishing more now. I have no faith in it at all and find less people during the off moon periods and better fishing. |
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Posts: 661
Location: Roscoe IL | Is there an app I can get to track this stuff? |
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Major and Minor feeding windows