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Posts: 53
| Hi all, I have a beginner question. I'm a lifelong smallmouth and walleye fisherman and I am just learning the ropes with Muskie. I was watching some fishing shows (Linder's show) on youtube. I noticed that many anglers do some form of a figure 8 at the end of each cast. Even if a fish is not visible. Is this common practice? Is this what I should be doing because they are often lurking out of sight? I know about doing the motion if I have a fish in pursuit.
-Greg
Edited by GFishes 5/18/2016 7:40 AM
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Posts: 143
| I do it every cast, have had them hit my bait from under the boat on the turn. Those fish I would have not caught if I had not. They can also a appear very fast. |
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Posts: 574
Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Do it every cast! Sometimes you don't see them coming at all. |
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Posts: 102
| If you aren't planning to do a boatside move until you see the fish, then that usually will result in you lunging towards the fish, and spooking it. I imagine that I have a fish on my bait at all times, and I setup each retrieve so that I'm prepared to execute a proper 8/oval on every cast. Setting your bait up for an 8/oval begins before the bait gets to the boat, depending on bait, it may begin halfway through the retrieve. Once you force yourself to do this on every cast, it starts to become second nature. My boat partner missed one last night b/c he got into the trance of doing a half lazy L at the boat, and a fish came out of nowhere and smoked his bait, but he was not mentally there anymore for that cast, and he never even got hooks into it. The GoPro footage will be great for me to show him. |
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Posts: 7010
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Yes. Expect when throwing weagles. |
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Posts: 53
| Thanks for the replies guys! This will have to become second nature for me then. I don't own any weagles yet, but will be adding lures to the arsenal as time goes by. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I don't do a full figure 8 each cast..usually just an L... in clear water maybe none |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | BNelson - 5/18/2016 10:14 AM
I don't do a full figure 8 each cast..usually just an L... in clear water maybe none
Same here. |
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Posts: 8729
| I'd get in the habit of doing a figure 8 on every cast until it becomes automatic. The late arrivals will get 'ya until you're used to spotting them. That said, if you can see well enough there's no reason to do a figure 8 for a fish that clearly isn't there. Much more important to be paying attention during your cast so you can do on oval/8 when you need to. |
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Posts: 759
Location: Ames, Iowa | I fish Leech. Lumpy said it perfectly. |
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Posts: 20181
Location: oswego, il | Alot of good points. Do at least an L in clear water. Do an 8 everywhere else. Fish can come in hot late or just late in general. I have had fish rifle in last second even on clear water to destroy a bait. You don't see them. They are not always just under the boat from a previous unseen follow. They can close distance from where you cannot see them in an instant.
Muskies will stalk from a depth they cannot be seen from the surface. I have seen this time and time again. I brought this up to Larry Dalhberg once, I figured if anyone had thoughts on that he would. He told me you don'the know just how important that is. |
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Posts: 255
| All good points. I always have some type of manuever that gives the fish a chance to hit, or gives me the chance to spot them.
I recall a day when the fishing (stained water) seemed slow, and one guy had a hit after doing a long figure 8. He was joking later in the day doing a long 8 about 7 or more times around when a legal smashed his lure. Seemed thats what they wanted that day. Have had fish hit the bottom of the boat when striking on the 8 that I never would have seen.
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Posts: 53
| This is all great info. I will be fishing the Allegheny river 90% of the time in an outboard jet. Much of the water we fish is fairly skinny 2-8ft. The river can get very clear at times. In the late fall it wouldn't be a surprising to see mussel shells in 12 feet of water. I imagine as I focus more on muskies I will be targeting the deeper pools. |
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Posts: 7010
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | And GFishes...not to say that guys like BNelson or CiscoKid are wrong....but they've been chasing muskies since before boats had motors (and they're so old it's hard to believe that can stand to cast still) and probably can "see" a follow that most of us would miss. |
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Posts: 1126
Location: Minnesota. | Thanks for this reminder. I'm sure I'm guilty of not doing this boat-side maneuver enough and when I think of all the times I've looked down and seen fish - or two- seemingly just laying there, I'm guessing I must've messed up and missed a good chance.
Won't happen again!! Good topic! |
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Location: Contrarian Island | muskies definitely stalk their pray at times much deeper than we realize... I've seen them cruising directly under the bait 6-8 feet below the surface when the bait was 6" below the surface...pretty cool to see... in clear water tho in general you can easily get a way with an elongated L if nothing shows up fire away
at night I do at least the start of an oval or 8 for sure tho
Edited by BNelson 5/18/2016 1:36 PM
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Posts: 95
| I generally raise the rod tip, snatch the bait out of the water, so they don't hit at the boat. BOATSIDE strikes suck!! They are fun, exciting, and can shorten your life by many many years!!! (Quite honestly nothing more exciting than a boatside strike from a muskie, especially after dark!!!)
Yes.... as Brad said, some type of L, but not a ful figure 8... this will increase your casts by almost 32-40 in a day, and over 200-300 in a week, which equates to almost a whole half a day of "EXTRA" fishing.
But then again, who really knows.... muskies CAN'T be figured out!! 
Edited by DonnieHunt37 5/18/2016 2:05 PM
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Posts: 251
| I am in the camp of 8's all the time. If I am lazy I do 3/4 of an 8. I mainly fish LOTW and it is definitely needed there. |
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Posts: 200
Location: Minnesota | I start out doing full figure 8s with my rod as far down in the water and as wide as they can get. As they day goes on and I get more tired/my optimism wanes, less and less of the rod gets dunked on each 8. I still do them, but they're done with much less enthusiasm and energy than the ones early in the day. |
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Posts: 572
| DonnieHunt37 - 5/18/2016 1:51 PM
Yes.... as Brad said, some type of L, but not a ful figure 8... this will increase your casts by almost 32-40 in a day, and over 200-300 in a week, which equates to almost a whole half a day of "EXTRA" fishing.
This is my thinking as well. Awhile ago, I figured out the time associated with going cast-to-cast with a L versus a full figure 8. By doing the full figure 8 I'm reducing my # of casts/hr by about 12%, which over the course of a given week on LOTW will equal hundreds in fewer casts.
Which is more likely, catching a fish on a blind figure 8, or, catching a fish within the several hundred extra casts that you get? Myself, especially during a week on LOTW, I'd much prefer to have the extra casts.
With that said, there are times when maximizing quantity of casts isn't so important...such as, if you are returning to a spot where a big fish was seen, or, you are reasonably certain is holding fish. In those circumstances, I'll definitely do a full figure 8, and possibly multiple 8's after each cast.
So, to answer the question about whether to finish each cast with a full figure 8 or not, I think it depends upon whether you are in "search mode" (maximize casts) or if you have a fish targeted, where you want to maximize your chances at catching THAT FISH.
Edited by Matt DeVos 5/18/2016 5:05 PM
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Posts: 2280
Location: Chisholm, MN | I can't tell you how many times I've done a half-hearted L turn, only to see a late follow upon pulling the bait out of the water. By then it's too late. I give it at least a 3/4 "8". |
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Posts: 1971
| GFishes - until you have dozen's of muskies under your belt you probably should 8 every cast. It needs to be second nature.. when you have caught several dozen muskies, hopefully a dozen or so in the 8, you will be better at seeing fish behind your bait, and should be better at judging when full 8's are required (always at night, fish has followed recently, dark water, etc) I always tell those new to the sport in my boat. to do full 8's every cast!!, It helps when a fish actually shows up  |
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Posts: 14
| The first of the two fish will show you why to figure 8 each cast. For some of you who may have read the "catching muskies with previous lures still in their mouth" thread. This was the fish I had hooked up later that evening with that bucktail still on the side of its face... Another lesson this video shows is check your line for frays or cuts often. That was either 80 or 100 lb test and it gave out almost instantly due to a fray or cut I hadn't noticed yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEG3OU9XJHA |
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Posts: 1209
| Jeremy - 5/18/2016 1:24 PM
Thanks for this reminder. I'm sure I'm guilty of not doing this boat-side maneuver enough and when I think of all the times I've looked down and seen fish - or two- seemingly just laying there, I'm guessing I must've messed up and missed a good chance.
Won't happen again!! Good topic!
Yup. I fish in clear lakes about 30' of visibility and a couple years ago I got sick of seeing nice fish staring at me after I casted 75 yards away. So now It's everytime! I have amazed myself when I thought a fish rocketed away 15' like it was spooked. I did a 8 behind its back and bam it charged and hooked up before I knew it. |
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Posts: 255
| IAJustin is correct. There is a learning curve to a natural and reactive boatside hookset that will take time. Get comfortable with it, catch more fish. It is amazing how fast these fish show up or take off. good luck |
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Location: The desert | I drop a quarter stick of dynamite in after each cast. Nothing gets away. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Yep, every single cast. And yes, sometimes just an L or a lazy circle. But one of my best fish ever hit on a lazy L while I was jaw-jacking with my buddy in the boat when she came out from underneath my feet and hit it. |
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Posts: 12
| Do the 8 every time. But you can reduce those follows and boat side strikes by a few tricks. The guys I fish with get far more follows and boat side strikes then I do but I catch more fish. Trick #1 use as long of a 9' to 10.5' rod and throw your baits a mile. The fish have a lot more time to think about it. Trick #2 almost every bait has a special little twitch or shimmy you can make it do in mid retrieve. Trick #3 when using a subsurface bait (a long rod helps here) raise it up to wake the surface for a moment in mid retrieve then resume your prior depth. The reasons this works so well is simple, the shimmy is a indicator of bait fish who doesn't feel so good and its much easier for them to catch bait against the surface in a 2 dimensional plane rather than 3 just like the bait balls in the ocean.
On a different note, I do the figure 8 99.9% of the time but a couple of years ago 3 times on the last cast in a bay or on a point I didn't do the eight because I was starting to pick up the trolling motor and when I was bent over and bait 2' out of the water a musky went air born trying to nail it. That will scare the heck out of you. |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | I'm in the "L Turn" camp. I think efficiency and favor more casts as others have stated. If there is a late arrival... the L-turn will reveal them. If they are so late that an L-Turn didn't reveal them... these fish are usually not set up to catch a high percentage of them anyway. Figure out what you did wrong WITH YOUR CAST to bring those fish in so late... and correct it on your return visit. I love to catch fish in the figure8, and often PLAN to catch them there. Thus, the figure8 should be a proactive part of your presentation, not reactive. If you are figure8ing after every cast HOPING a late arrival appears.... I don't feel that is a good, efficient approach to this game. |
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Posts: 1220
| So, if half your fish are going to come on "eights" and these maneuvers occur in only a brief few seconds at the end of every cast...well um...50% of the catch comes from what you do only 10% of the time. Then, considering my poor schooling and suspect resulting math deficits, seems like casting and retrieving is a waste of time. Now, let's play it out. You spend a pretty good weekend fishing 20 hours and you catch two fish. One fish represents 18 hours of work, the other represents only 2 hours of work. Ipso-facto-Telemundo...next time you just go out and spend 4 hours doing figure-eights next to the boat and 16 hours either sleeping in or on a really comfortable bar stool, and have the SAME TWO FISH! That to me is some sort of a Pythagorean (KimJungKorean??) Theorem |
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Posts: 255
| I once got an F in a college math class, so I'll stick to the theorum that I love fishing more than catching muskies, because I'll cast all day for nothing, then do it again the next day.
Percentage-wise I might actually get more boatside strikes if I don't pay any attention, so all the tactics I could ever use with all my (limited) skill might not mean a dumb thing afterall. But I will cast all day and I will do something at boatside on every cast. |
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | In full agreement with Brad/JL/Donnie/Matt/Travis, and there's a heck of a lot of caught fish behind their thoughts. Especially important when picking apart specific shallow structures. You can't hit a rock at 3 different angles if you are twirling a bait at your feet for a minute as your boat drifts along....
....and just because you are in L turn mode, doesn't mean you need to do your L in Mach 10 speed and rip it out of the water. When I am in that mode, I will always let the bait just kinda hang/flutter for a second at the end before whipping it out and casting again. That way if the late arriver comes out of nowhere, the bait is still in the water and you can then speed it up and do your thing.
Edited by Musky Brian 5/19/2016 9:06 AM
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Posts: 512
| every cast..
its funny, ill do it when fishing for bass now
its just ingrained in my head..
boat partners just think im nuts when this happens.. |
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Posts: 95
| I love all the answers.... and there are no WRONG answers!!! BUT, for you new guys, I would suggest doing what you are comfortable doing... an L, a full figure 8, etc. BUT, whatever you do, if you are on BIG FISH water, DW we call it, HANG ON TO THAT ROD HANDLE!!!! |
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| I live on a chain with very dark, stained water and always do a figure 8. Still have had fish suddenly strike at the lure as I lifted it after a figure 8, never saw the fish until it came part way out of the water after the lure. Now that will get the blood pumping! |
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Posts: 1971
| One thing to consider is presentation too.... Even on the same lake this often dictates if a full 8 is more effective ...I fish LOTW a lot, if I'm throwing topwater or tails, more times than not you will see the fish follow, doing an L with those presentations is more effective, especially with experienced anglers... when I'm deep crankin/ grinding rocks on the woods ( a deadly technique by the way) ... I'll always do a full 8 .... these "deep" fish come out of nowhere way too often on that lake not to!! On the opposite end of the spectrum... THere are situation's (not LOTW) when throwing WTD that I don't even fish the bait back to the boat... bait gets 10 yards from me ..I burn the bait back and fire another cast... So full 8 in every situation is silly too.. Perfecting the 8 will probably double your catch rate... I know some trips 80% of fish eat at the boat.. I guess to all "Newbies" .. welcome to the sickness
Edited by IAJustin 5/19/2016 12:34 PM
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Posts: 1209
| Musky Brian - 5/19/2016 8:37 AM
In full agreement with Brad/JL/Donnie/Matt/Travis, and there's a heck of a lot of caught fish behind their thoughts. Especially important when picking apart specific shallow structures. You can't hit a rock at 3 different angles if you are twirling a bait at your feet for a minute as your boat drifts along....
....and just because you are in L turn mode, doesn't mean you need to do your L in Mach 10 speed and rip it out of the water. When I am in that mode, I will always let the bait just kinda hang/flutter for a second at the end before whipping it out and casting again. That way if the late arriver comes out of nowhere, the bait is still in the water and you can then speed it up and do your thing.
I like this post the most. As far as I go, 12' tallon crucial for my fishing. Also every cast for me finishes with at least an L, then calmly as my lure is at rest I push the thumb bar down ( it gives me an additional second in the water for something to show up) then cast. I have a friend who yanks his lure out of the water from 1' down and in one motion casts. I did that to mess with him 3 casts in a row and I was tuckered out. My old man lifts his lure up and then switches hands to cast then hits the thumb bar. (I believe it takes less effort to push the button when everything is weightless and I get those extra seconds.
If there is 3 or 4 people in the boat a full 8 if there is 1 or 2 a L to 3/4 oval. |
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Posts: 8729
| One thing nobody mentioned that I've encountered a few times is when fishing with 3 people in the boat:
We always try to coordinate our casts so we don't have two people doing figure 8's at the same time. Having 3 lures out increases your odds of someone else's follow turning off and whacking your lure instead, and also having the "late arrival" come unexpectedly out of nowhere, often from under the boat. If we've got three in the boat, I'll often do an extra turn or two to get the "rythm" back of one lure in the air, one out and one at boatside. That extra turn has shown some color from time to time. My guess is those are fish that followed someone else's lure to the boat. |
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Posts: 1209
| Agreed^^^ I also try not to cast when someone is doing a figure 8 I know a casting motion will scare most follows |
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Posts: 1023
| I figure 8 unless I am shallow and there is no chance of a sneak attack. I got most of my fish on rights last year - which is awesome. |
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Newby question. Figure 8 on each cast?