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Posts: 146
Location: Alsip, IL | Hi guys, I'm looking at boats for the spring. I'm in a 17ft glass bass boat currently. I took a job down in central IL and would like a boat that has a Kicker for the HP restrictions down here. I have minimal experience with Tuffy and none with Recon, but I really like the layouts of both for musky fishing. Anyone on here care chime in with some pro's or con's of either brand? I'm looking at 17 foot deep V models because some of my favorite bodies of water in the UP near my cottage have less than desirable launches. I'd consider 19 ft models, but I don't want to sacrifice all of my skinny water abilities I have in my bass boat. How well would these boats handle water such as LSC or LOTW for once a year trips? Also, would an 8 hp kicker be enough or go 9.9? Any insight towards this topic would be greatly appreciated, big purchase for me and I'd love to get as many opinions as I can from people with experience.
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Posts: 194
Location: Lake Elmo, MN | I'd say "why a kicker" ? unless you are a trolling nut and will use that kicker every day.
A kicker is really useful on LOW as a backup if you are 20 miles from camp and the big motor konks out. But for a once a year trip, or the reservoirs around central Illinois this is not a huge issue.....I'd buy a good marine radio for $400 for those breakdown situations, and be done with it. (and save 2 grand)
Again tho....if you are a big time troller year around, I'd say then your kicker is a huge deal and buy the 9.9
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Posts: 146
Location: Alsip, IL | I'm not worried about a backup engine. I need a 9.9hp motor or less on most of the musky lakes around me. That's the main concern there. Lake Mingo, Spring Lake, Banner Marsh, and Evergreen are all lakes I frequent. I can't run a 150hp on any of those lakes. | |
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Posts: 194
Location: Lake Elmo, MN | OH !! That's a VERY good reason then. I missed that in your first post.
You'll use it a lot then.....go with the 9.9 then IMO. That 9.9 pushes the big rigs all the time so it will give you plenty to get around.
Good luck ! | |
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Posts: 1283
| A guide up here(northern IL) uses a 19ft Recon and its a awesome boat, from looks to functionality and I see him get pretty shallow in it. Pretty Sure Joe Bucher uses the same boat. If I could afford one that would be the boat. Do those HP restricted lakes allow a big motor on the boat? I know some of them wont even let you on the lake with a big motor even trimmed up. | |
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Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The Tuffy 1890 is the boat you would compare. Floats in a foot of water, will handle anything you put it into. Set up for a kicker, and offered in 6 console models. It will run very well with a 115, and hauls arse with a 200. | |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | I've only run into one access that I couldn't launch my 1890 in, and it isn't what is normally considered a bad launch. But this year it was extremely shallow and very sandy. I also only have a jeep as my toe vehicle so I don't have as much length as a truck.
Love the boat and it can handle any inland water. | |
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Posts: 296
| The 17'ers are close to a wash stats wise. Tuffy has been around longer and you have the very nice option of going with the g-series with the Tuffy.
Comparing the Tuffy 1890 and 985 is a little more interesting. If you have 9+ foot rods the recon locker will actually hold them. The consoles also have pass through so for keeping rods down and out of the way while fishing. Once again though the g-series option scores extra points. I have really enjoyed both of mine. The rod locker is advertised as 9' but I can't fit my 8'4" jerk bait in my 1890. The box opening is too short for the extra long handle.
Both are great regionally built options with Tuffy being the larger company. I had a Tuffy 1760 and upgraded to an 1890. I haven't fished a lake where I could launch the 1760 and not the 1890..... Something to keep in mind. A 19' class 8' beam boat has a LOT more room than a 17.5' class 7' beam boat. | |
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Posts: 937
| I have a 2015 Tuffy 1890GT I can fit 4- 9' rods in my rod locker in the top row no problem and 4- 8'6" in the second row. I've had 3 of these boats and been able to store 9' rods in the rod locker in all of them.
I can launch and fish this boat in very shallow water no problem.
Best musky boat I have fished from.
Jeff Hanson
madisonmuskyguide.com
Edited by Jeff Hanson 11/23/2015 6:11 PM
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Posts: 7
| We have been a Tuffy boat family since I can remember from my dad, brother, and myself. But next year I'm buying a Recon 985. The way it handles in 3 to 4 foot waves is nothing less than amazing. You may not think the 3 inch beam difference is a lot, but it is. Before deciding on the Recon I test drove both the 985 Recon and the Tuffy 1890. Although the Tuffy is a nice boat the Recon is just rides better and is more stable. Not to mention Recon boats have a lifetime hull warranty vs. Tuffy 5 year hull warranty.
Oh the gap between the console and the boat is so you can lay your 9' rods on the front deck.
As I said nothing against Tuffy, we've been a Tuffy boat family since 1984.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Muskybob1976 - 11/24/2015 11:26 AM
We have been a Tuffy boat family since I can remember from my dad, brother, and myself. But next year I'm buying a Recon 985. The way it handles in 3 to 4 foot waves is nothing less than amazing. You may not think the 3 inch beam difference is a lot, but it is. Before deciding on the Recon I test drove both the 985 Recon and the Tuffy 1890. Although the Tuffy is a nice boat the Recon is just rides better and is more stable. Not to mention Recon boats have a lifetime hull warranty vs. Tuffy 5 year hull warranty.
Oh the gap between the console and the boat is so you can lay your 9' rods on the front deck.
As I said nothing against Tuffy, we've been a Tuffy boat family since 1984.
Define 'rides better'. I have been in both.
The 985 is a 19.5' boat, the 1890 is an 18'9" boat. Compare the 2100 to the 985 and you are closer to apples/apples. There's also the 2060, a proven excellent big water ride. Yes. it has a 90" beam. Hit the water with your palm. Then karate chop it with the side of your hand. And that with proven stability at rest.
Ride and stability are not determined by beam, it's wetted surface, hull design, and more. Both boats handle big water well. I'd really argue the 'stability' claim, the boats are very comparable there; check the width at the chines and hull design on both.
You also need to look into how Fiberdome handles their Tuffy hull warranty, and what a 'structural defect' warranty is and what that really means with a FRP boat. 'Lifetime' warranties are fine if the company is still in business years from now; Fiberdome, Inc, Tuffy Boat's parent company, has been in business for over 40 years and is the most diversified regional manufacturer in the Midwest. | |
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Posts: 146
Location: Alsip, IL | Thanks for all the help guys. I appreciate the input. I'm going to try and get out for a day with a guide in a 985 and see how I like it before I make any quick decisions. First expensive boat purchase for me and now that I can finally afford pulling the trigger on a nice rig I wana make sure I get exactly what I want. Will an 8hp kicker be enough on the 17 ft class of boats? Lake Mingo is one of my favorite lakes and they have a 9.5HP max(weird I know). I can have a larger outboard it just has to be trimmed up. I don't know how strict they'd get on that extra .4 of a horse though. | |
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Posts: 1283
| T-bone guide service aka Chris Taurisano on the Fox Chain has the Recon with a 200 Rude and a 9.9 kicker if your looking to get out on one. | |
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Posts: 37
Location: wisconsin | Not to resurrect an old topic, but after having this very same discussion with a friend yesterday, what good is a warranty if you end up having to use it ?
Nobody pays for your down time do they ?
I have a good friend who guides and went through a nightmare warranty and lawsuit against Ranger and Mercury a few years back... Nothing like having a good warranty ,when dealing with a boat company in receivership.
Lifetime means nothing, just look at St Croix Rods change in policy over the years.
If you don't cheapen up the product or don't mass flood the market with your wares, a lifetime warranty is non issue , correct ?
The bottom line for most boat buyers comes down to price, as few shoppers ever compare apples to apples anyway.
Would I like to a new Tuffy Esox Mag ?
Of course, but when mine is fine and there is no shortage of older ones, why spend 30K+ for one, when another nice older one is out there to be had for well under a third of that ?
Case in point:
I paid $5k for my beloved "special order" '87 Esox Ltd in 2000, it came from ILL and the original owner put a good OMC motor on it rather than the guy that typically spent large for the boat then cheaped out with a Force or Mariner back in the day.
Though the previous owner and I took extreme care of it, the boat eventually needed to be re-floored a couple years ago. Unfortunately I waited too long as about the time I finally decided to take Tuffy up on doing it, they decided that they no longer wanted to fix Glasways short comings, which I get as boat companies are in business to sell NEW boats NOT fix old ones.
My boat was repaired by a former employee and I am still pleased 3 years later.
I've read an awful lot of Ranger V. Tuffy articles here and find them comical at best
because there is no Ranger boat made now or then that can compete with an Esox Mag or Ltd. , much less a 154 , Roustabout, Bassabout , Rogue [for the old timers] in performance or price.
As for the build, Ranger has been in bankruptcy [once-twice?] and builds how many times the boats a year that Tuffy does. So tell me who really has the upper hand on quality control ? Last I heard there are 3 guys assembling at Fiberdome.
How many guys are building the endless supply of Rangers ?
If you like Ranger, no digs, obviously they are doing something right other than marketing. The resale is fantastic, so how can you lose ?
My only complaint with Tuffy today, is the Gunwale and transom corner molding is crap black plastic rather than the aluminum it used to be. Plastic is UV unstable, aluminum lasts forever. It is a structural and cosmetic downgrade that I can't accept.
I like the idea of the newer one piece drop in floor , but fiberglassed foam does not appeal to me over marine plywood that is glassed on both sides.. Foam is stronger than plywood ? Not a chance....
My Esox turned 30 this summer and looks at the most a few years old, The new floor is glassed both sides, which Glasway should have done from the start, rather than brushing on a coat of polyurethane on the undersides.
My transom is solid, it's a clean boat , so why pay 30 grand?
Other than that and the obvious cost cutting measures that ALL makers take these days, I"ll take a Fiberdome built Tuffy over any glass boat on the water.
Hell, aren't they using Kevlar in the hulls or has that gone away already ?
Bottom line is every fisherman's needs and tastes are very different and once you get away from the Esox and Roustabout hull , all dynamics change, but I'd still take a big water Tuffy over the competition.
Then again, any commentary is totally subjective, and most could careless about that little Lake Mills Boat Co anyway 
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Sounds good....
I'll take the Ranger :-D | |
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Posts: 37
Location: wisconsin | To each their own | |
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Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Yes, Tuffy is still using Kevlar. See the highlighted material for corrections. Good boat, sort of the heavy utility ride of the industry, not as much bling but tough as nails. If you want luxury and status, by all means, buy it! If you are looking for a good looking, tough, well built ride with a strong company behind it, take a gander at the Tuffy.
peedenmark7 - 8/4/2017 5:12 PM Not to resurrect an old topic, but after having this very same discussion with a friend yesterday, what good is a warranty if you end up having to use it ? Nobody pays for your down time do they ? I have a good friend who guides and went through a nightmare warranty and lawsuit against Ranger and Mercury a few years back... Nothing like having a good warranty ,when dealing with a boat company in receivership. Lifetime means nothing, just look at St Croix Rods change in policy over the years. If you don't cheapen up the product or don't mass flood the market with your wares, a lifetime warranty is non issue , correct ? The bottom line for most boat buyers comes down to price, as few shoppers ever compare apples to apples anyway. Would I like to a new Tuffy Esox Mag ? Of course, but when mine is fine and there is no shortage of older ones, why spend 30K+ for one, when another nice older one is out there to be had for well under a third of that ? Case in point: I paid $5k for my beloved "special order" '87 Esox Ltd in 2000, it came from ILL and the original owner put a good OMC motor on it rather than the guy that typically spent large for the boat then cheaped out with a Force or Mariner back in the day. Though the previous owner and I took extreme care of it, the boat eventually needed to be re-floored a couple years ago. Unfortunately I waited too long as about the time I finally decided to take Tuffy up on doing it, they decided that they no longer wanted to fix Glasways short comings, which I get as boat companies are in business to sell NEW boats NOT fix old ones. My boat was repaired by a former employee and I am still pleased 3 years later. I've read an awful lot of Ranger V. Tuffy articles here and find them comical at best because there is no Ranger boat made now or then that can compete with an Esox Mag or Ltd. , much less a 154 , Roustabout, Bassabout , Rogue [for the old timers] in performance or price. As for the build, Ranger has been in bankruptcy [once-twice?] and builds how many times the boats a year that Tuffy does. So tell me who really has the upper hand on quality control ? Last I heard there are 3 guys assembling at Fiberdome. How many guys are building the endless supply of Rangers ? If you like Ranger, no digs, obviously they are doing something right other than marketing. The resale is fantastic, so how can you lose ? My only complaint with Tuffy today, is the Gunwale and transom corner molding is crap black plastic rather than the aluminum it used to be. (the gunnel material is a nylon composite, not plastic, and is UV stable. We tested it for a year, and left a piece in the driveway getting run over through summer and winter, and it cleaned up and was in great shape. No issues with it in two decades. The aluminum gunnel was and is no longer available, as in Tuffy couldn't buy get what they needed anymore) Plastic is UV unstable, aluminum lasts forever. It is a structural and cosmetic downgrade that I can't accept. (It was more expensive, not less, and structurally is as strong and far more impact resistant than aluminum)I like the idea of the newer one piece drop in floor ( not a one piece floor, it is the deck, side tanks, and spalshwell in one composite piece) , but fiberglassed foam does not appeal to me over marine plywood that is glassed on both sides ( there was no 'marine plywood' in any of the older Tuffy boats, just plain construction grade ply. The composite flooring is a fiberglass/composite grid structure with thousands of glass core structures, is many times stronger that plywood, and will last forever).. Foam is stronger than plywood ? Not a chance.... (learn more about composites, incredibly strong and last forever)
My Esox turned 30 this summer and looks at the most a few years old, The new floor is glassed both sides, which Glasway should have done from the start (the floor in that boat was shot with resin on both sides, was not 'glassed on both sides'. The chopped strand that sealed the seams was the only fiber on the floor, which is what all boat builders were doing at the time) never was polyurethane used), rather than brushing on a coat of polyurethane on the undersides. My transom is solid, it's a clean boat , so why pay 30 grand? Other than that and the obvious cost cutting measures that ALL makers take these days, I"ll take a Fiberdome built Tuffy over any glass boat on the water. ( Fiberdome uses MUCH more expensive processes now than at any time in the past. Instead of 'cost cutting', they implemented a far more costly laminate structure, comptuer driven electrical system, the finest resins and gel coat, far better seating, the best carpet available, etc.) Hell, aren't they using Kevlar in the hulls or has that gone away already ? Bottom line is every fisherman's needs and tastes are very different and once you get away from the Esox and Roustabout hull , all dynamics change, but I'd still take a big water Tuffy over the competition. Then again, any commentary is totally subjective, and most could careless about that little Lake Mills Boat Co anyway (Fiberdome uses more resin in a week than most boat builders will use in a month or more. Tuffy Boat's parent company is not even close to 'little', it's grown like mad since Glasway went out of business and Fiberdome bought the company. The locker room for Fiberdome takes up the entire manufacturing area Glasway had.Stop at a McDonalds, lately? All the new rain shields, store fronts, etc were probably made in Lake Mills. The MATV, replacement for the Hum Vee? Fiberdome probably built the front clip. Het Tank carrier too. Tuffy is Fiberdome's marketing arm, and they don't want to be any bigger than they are)
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Posts: 983
| 8hp kicker should be absolutely fine on that boat...I had an old 6hp Ted williams junk and would push my 18ft fiberglass about 5mph...newr 8hp should get you 8-10mph out of that boat should be fine | |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | Looked hard at the 985 last year and decided to stay in my old one ... not enough to win me over. I'd still go used over new believing they all haven't improved enough to be a best choice option vs. what can be bought. | |
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Posts: 37
Location: wisconsin | Steve,
Terminology mistake on the drop in floor, I do know it is a one piece inner with tanks floor etc.
I just dont care for that black molding, have seen plenty of them damaged where alum would not. Odd they cant get that anymore, one would think if you are willing to pay to have something made , the availability is moot.
Still , if my choice is not fishing in a Tuffy or fishing another brand, I'm done boating.
My new floor has glass mat on the bottom along with resin over the marine ply, should last my lifetime anyway. | |
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Posts: 228
Location: Tinley Park, IL | sworrall - 8/5/2017 9:59 AM
<p>Yes, Tuffy is still using Kevlar. See the highlighted material for corrections. Good boat, sort of the heavy utility ride of the industry, not as much bling but tough as nails. If you want luxury and status, by all means, buy it! If you are looking for a good looking, tough, well built ride with a strong company behind it, take a gander at the Tuffy.>
When I bought my Tuffy I didn't think too much about the Kevlar and tough hull but this is the absolute truth. I talked to a buddy who had an incident with his Tuffy and he was amazed how strong the hull was. I completely agree with what Steve says here. There are a lot of other boats that are more luxurious in terms of carpeting and latches but a Tuffy has a beautiful finish and a very strong hull which is lighter than most comparably sized boats. | |
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Posts: 37
Location: wisconsin | MY first experience in a tuffy was my buddies 88 bass about.. I loved it so much I went through a bunch of that hull design over the years. If you look hard enough you will see my wanted to buy ads from years ago searching for one.. Found a garage queen Bass about 3 years ago and it's been my second boat ever since.
Main boat is an Esox Ltd. , I love the open deck and uncluttered "work area"
I just dont get these dual console boats where you can't work a fish around thew boat, but as I said earlier , to each his own..
I will run a Tuffy as long as I am alive. | |
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Posts: 228
Location: Tinley Park, IL |
I just dont get these dual console boats where you can't work a fish around thew boat, but as I said earlier , to each his own..
I will run a Tuffy as long as I am alive.
Interesting you say this. I just took the passenger console out of my X-190 today. Think I am going to really enjoy the extra room considering I fish by myself 75% of the time.
Edited by Paul S 8/5/2017 6:45 PM
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Posts: 37
Location: wisconsin | I think if there was a way for people outside of WI, ILL, MN and MI to try a Tuffy Esox Mag 1st hand, I have no doubt in my mind they would never fish another boat for inland waters.. My boat is an Esox Ltd, or as others now it the original Marauder so it is not the larger Mag boat, but even in mine I can walk a fish 360 around the boat UNOBSTRUCTED if need be.
Bass, walleye, musky, whatever...
LOVE IT ! | |
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Location: Contrarian Island | hey now, I have a Ranger... and I own a Tuffy Esox Ltd. too.. so can I put both stickers on my truck? lol
Rangers are the best of the best, there is no doubt about it. I've been in enough tuffys and Rangers to see and feel the quality difference.. is it "worth" the extra $. that is for each buyer to decide. I'm always looking for a good Esox Mag and will get one some day. great boat for smaller waters up to say 5k acres and not in 25mph winds... like anything you buy, decide your budget and what your must haves are and then go buy one...
Nothing wrong with Tuffys... are they a Ranger.. not imo but Tuffys are great boats too... in the end...the fish don't care what boat you're in.
Edited by BNelson 8/7/2017 10:38 AM
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Posts: 228
Location: Tinley Park, IL | BNelson - 8/7/2017 10:38 AM
hey now, I have a Ranger... and I own a Tuffy Esox Ltd. too.. so can I put both stickers on my truck? lol
Rangers are the best of the best, there is no doubt about it. I've been in enough tuffys and Rangers to see and feel the quality difference.. is it "worth" the extra $. that is for each buyer to decide. I'm always looking for a good Esox Mag and will get one some day. great boat for smaller waters up to say 5k acres and not in 25mph winds... like anything you buy, decide your budget and what your must haves are and then go buy one...
Nothing wrong with Tuffys... are they a Ranger.. not imo but Tuffys are great boats too... in the end...the fish don't care what boat you're in.
LOL- I was just responding to Brian's condescending post. Rangers are one of the best boats but I don't put them in their own tier. Legend and Basscats are right there with them in terms of quality in the bass boat world. Personally, I don't consider Tuffy and Ranger to be comparable brands at all. The refinement of the Ranger is light years ahead of a Tuffy. Quality of carpet, padded decks, stainless steel latches, upholstery, lid struts, lighting- it is all top of the line in the Ranger but you definitely pay for it. Is that worth it? It wasn't for me. You're right- the fish don't know the difference. | |
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Location: North Central IL USA | peedenmark7 - 8/5/2017 5:30 PM
I just dont get these dual console boats where you can't work a fish around thew boat, but as I said earlier , to each his own..
There's an opening there you can walk through.  | |
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Paul S - 8/7/2017 10:52 AM
BNelson - 8/7/2017 10:38 AM
hey now, I have a Ranger... and I own a Tuffy Esox Ltd. too.. so can I put both stickers on my truck? lol
Rangers are the best of the best, there is no doubt about it. I've been in enough tuffys and Rangers to see and feel the quality difference.. is it "worth" the extra $. that is for each buyer to decide. I'm always looking for a good Esox Mag and will get one some day. great boat for smaller waters up to say 5k acres and not in 25mph winds... like anything you buy, decide your budget and what your must haves are and then go buy one...
Nothing wrong with Tuffys... are they a Ranger.. not imo but Tuffys are great boats too... in the end...the fish don't care what boat you're in.
LOL- I was just responding to Brian's condescending post. Rangers are one of the best boats but I don't put them in their own tier. Legend and Basscats are right there with them in terms of quality in the bass boat world. Personally, I don't consider Tuffy and Ranger to be comparable brands at all. The refinement of the Ranger is light years ahead of a Tuffy. Quality of carpet, padded decks, stainless steel latches, upholstery, lid struts, lighting- it is all top of the line in the Ranger but you definitely pay for it. Is that worth it? It wasn't for me. You're right- the fish don't know the difference.
Oh...sounds like it is a bit more than carpeting and latches then?
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Posts: 228
Location: Tinley Park, IL | Musky Brian - 8/7/2017 11:00 AM
Oh...sounds like it is a bit more than carpeting and latches then?
So you need a comprehensive list to understand what makes one boat more luxurious than another? | |
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Posts: 7010
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | idea: reach out to each company, go through their pro-staff list and a guy on staff that can take you for a ride? It's a big purchase, might want to get a first hand feel for what you're buying.
I have a 1760, its a few years older, but it's the same hull and general layout if you want to find a time to actually be in it. | |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | there is an open house in N. Wisconsin in September at Premier Powersports where you can meet the owner/builder of Recon boats and not just meet the pro's but go out and run their boats with them and go through them in detail. you would learn anything you would want to know by doing this and maybe get a little time on the water to boot. | |
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Posts: 410
Location: With my son on the water | IMO When Ranger stopped making the 690 & 680/618 they stopped making a boat for muskie fishermen. So that is why I got a Tuffy. If Ranger would make the current 618 hull in a console model with long rod storage they may have something, but I have talked to them several times and it doesn't sound like that will happen. My uncapped G model Tuffy has way more room than a Recon.
Enjoy your day.
Brad | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It may be a surprise to some, but the OP was not asking about a Ranger. And, he was looking a a 17' class boat, which may be why. | |
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Location: Contrarian Island | yah cuz Ranger threads never have ppl chiming in about Tuffy boats. lol. sure. | |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i thought it was a Recon thread ... | |
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Location: Contrarian Island | looks like from the title it's both... | |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | yah, that's what i meant ... comparing Recon to Tuffy ... but, you would have to understand that Ranger, Skeeter and maybe Champion would come into the discussion. i agree with that totally. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | BNelson - 8/7/2017 1:25 PM
yah cuz Ranger threads never have ppl chiming in about Tuffy boats. lol. sure.
'but, you would have to understand that Ranger, Skeeter and maybe Champion would come into the discussion'
OBVIOUSLY not what I was speaking to. Arguing over Ranger on this thread where the question was about a boat Ranger no longer makes to the point of insulting each other and forcing a moderator to babysit the thread was; you 2 knew that or have been into the liquor cabinet again. Fine to insult each other in the basement. I can arrange it so neither of you has any choice if you like. | |
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Location: Contrarian Island | lol, It's all good... I like my Tuffy as much as my Ranger... they both catch fish. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I think you would probably catch them from a paddle powered bath tub | |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | loved my esox magnum and if i didn't fish big water it is the perfect boat ... one of a kind. | |
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Posts: 555
Location: Tennessee | I'd vote Tuffy out of the choices for build quaility if nothing else. Tough as hell boats. I just wish they had a southern foothold and especially with the Esox models I don't know why not. I was kinda wanting an X-170 back when boat shopping but there wasn't any dealers remotely close unfortunately. | |
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Posts: 135
| Serious question:
What makes the Tuffy "tough as hell" build quality functionally different from other fiberglass boats? I get that they might use a different process with kevlar developed for non-boat applications. And, how does this matter in a "it makes the boat better" kind of a way? It's not like Recons or Rangers or Skeeters or Champions (or whatever) are out there breaking their hulls or transoms...
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Actually, some are.
The main construction difference between Tuffy and many other FRP boats is the uni-body lamination process Tuffy uses completely laminating the deck, floor, and splashwell to the hull, and a 13 layer hull laminate. The kevlar strengthens and keeps the boat keel from wearing through easily if no keel guard is applied. Tuffy also adds more laminate to the side walls than many, especially above the center line.
A capped Tuffy is just that, a 'cap' installed on the boat body primarily for cosmetic and free-board purposes, and that is why Tuffy can build open gunnel models the others will not, many use a one piece deck liner that is fastened to the boat primarily with mechanical fasteners and perhaps some fiberglass stitching, so there's 2 parts to the boat, the hull and the liner. Some use a hull, liner, and inner-liner.
Consoles are bolted in (Tuffy was the first in walleye/muskie boats to do that, no crazing in radius as there are none), the slashwell will support 600 pounds easily and is many times the thickness of most, plus one can walk around in that area and actually use it. That's why it is coated with a walkable surface. Tuffy's transom is from edge to edge top to bottom, what you see from the rear of the boat is all as thick as the motor mount and is one piece carbon fiber.
Tuffy use the same resins and gel coats as the big boys.
Champion had not built anything but bass boats for years after a couple years building Deep V models, and I believe Jacobs shut her down. Too bad, I loved that boat. | |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Champion suffered by poor ownership and back in the day (mid 80's) pushed Ranger hard with the offset Elite and it out handled and out-performed Ranger moving many, many serious bass anglers over. I lived and fished in Memphis, TN at that time and the two most innovative and high-performance games started to really show that the leader better keep their eyes open ... in glass it was Champion and in Aluminum it was XPress. Bass Cat ... well, if you don't know about bass cat on big deck boats then do some research or go try to take a ride. Similar to Tuffy in the south is BassCat in the north ... relatively unknown, but wow what a boat!!
there was another boat back then that brought a lot to the market for a very low price ... one went away for not being "enough" albeit at a low price point (Sprint) while the other had to improve to keep up (Tracker) including a higher price point.
the Champion of the south expanded to deep V just before what i believe was an embezzlement case with the owner (Steve??) if i remember correctly so while they made a crazy good product, the company was struggling. i'd buy a FishHunter in a second!!
i have my own opinion where to place Recon ... but, it's up to the person to decide what is the best product for them. Sprint sold a lot a lot a lot of boats to neighbors of mine down there who wanted a glass boat but couldn't afford a Ranger, Cat or Champion so although not a "bad" boat ... not in the class of the former 3 ...
in the mix always down there were Stratos, Javelin and Skeeter blending in the gap ...
love boat talk. while in Memphis i had a late 80's Champion Elite and it was an outstanding boat!! then i had kids ... and moved north and got a boston whaler LOL | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Yes, the owner of Champion had turned to company over to his son who had serious social...issues. I had an interview with with them at the time and did a factory tour through the labyrinth that was the facility, very interesting and one hell of a well built bass boat. The Fishunter was a great V, but developed serious crazing to cracking in the transom/splashwell radius areas on the boats that were run real hard. I'd buy one gently used in a minute.
When I was with Skeeter from '89 to '92 running the Midwest, Sprint was on the radar, as was Cajun. Jacobs bought and closed Cajun too, really a shame. Success back then was measured in boats built per day, and champ was second to third with Skeeter back and forth. I was working for Kenny Burroughs (the only boss man I have ever been truly intimidated by, one hell of a presence) when I quit, he was a boat man coming from two generations of aluminum and glass. He and another gent owned Terry bass boats, remember those rides? Still see a few around.
Bass Cat is built in the same town just down the road from my Dad's place. Always wanted a Panterra. They own Yar Craft now, and sell a few, expensive ride but extremely well built, our buddy and long time MuskieFIRST guy 'Ranger' bought one last year and had it up at the Fall Outing at Spring Bay resort. Kingfisher was out there too, even made a run at the North with a walleye boat. That's where Tuffy bought the 1700 hull tooling, those were built in an old chicken farm in Texas, and a fellow named Tiny ran the place. I think Jacobs bought them out too, and just left the tooling there in a field with the copperheads.
Good regional boat. | |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | my youth was spent in a terry outfitted with an 85 hp Suzuki ... we were the schist in that thing!! now it would fit inside of a small boat!! i remember some memorable smallie fishing trips to Vermillion running some big water. the goal was to stay in the boat and have your kidneys still attached.
we are old!
hydrosport was the upgrade my dad made from the Terry ... ouch!!
Edited by jonnysled 8/8/2017 1:20 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Remember the Hydrosport Hooker muskie boat? Dang thing was a sheet of plywood doing 60. I sold them some K-Dee trailers for awhile. | |
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Posts: 555
Location: Tennessee | Glaucus_ - 8/8/2017 10:39 AM
Serious question:
What makes the Tuffy "tough as hell" build quality functionally different from other fiberglass boats? I get that they might use a different process with kevlar developed for non-boat applications. And, how does this matter in a "it makes the boat better" kind of a way? It's not like Recons or Rangers or Skeeters or Champions (or whatever) are out there breaking their hulls or transoms...
Steve answered much better than I could from a technical/engineering perspective. But I've spent a whole lot of time in an Esox LTD that's used/abused and keeps on ticking. By that I mean it's been ran in shallow rivers and nailed many many floating and submerged objects, nailed docks, beached on rocks to the point there's quite a sizable hole in the keel yet it still floats, we've been swamped by pleasure boats to the point the water was literally up to the decks and floating the fuel tank, the top cap/rail is missing pieces, the corner caps are busted, its never had a transom saver used, and it's always stored outside and he usually leaves the drain plug in perpetually so it stays full of water. Yet despite all the years of abuse it can still outrun anything short of a bassboat and outfishes any other muskie boats I know. | |
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| btfish - 8/7/2017 12:23 PM
IMO When Ranger stopped making the 690 & 680/618 they stopped making a boat for muskie fishermen. So that is why I got a Tuffy. If Ranger would make the current 618 hull in a console model with long rod storage they may have something, but I have talked to them several times and it doesn't sound like that will happen. My uncapped G model Tuffy has way more room than a Recon.
Enjoy your day.
Brad
What dont you like about the 620 or 621 for Muskie Fishing?? Very interested because I wanna upgrade boats again this spring and really leaning toward a 620 or 621...would also look at tuffy but dont see many in my area I should have bought one for sale here last spring it was a 2015 Tuffy 19ft fiberglass with 225 optimax and powerpoles and electronics for 27k think that was a pretty solid number just didnt have that type of cash at the time and really wanted 20ft min but ended up with a 19'6" anyways...live and learn but interested to hear back | |
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Location: Tinley Park, IL | I can tell you that I was interested in getting a used 618 but not a 620 or 621. Those boats would have been difficult to get in my garage, it was 600 lbs or so heavier and I have a Tacoma, would have needed a dual axle trailer, and it was quite a bit more money. If Ranger still made a 618 I might have bought that instead of my X-190. | |
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Posts: 135
| By that I mean it's been ran in shallow rivers and nailed many many floating and submerged objects, nailed docks, beached on rocks to the point there's quite a sizable hole in the keel yet it still floats, we've been swamped by pleasure boats to the point the water was literally up to the decks and floating the fuel tank, the top cap/rail is missing pieces, the corner caps are busted, its never had a transom saver used, and it's always stored outside and he usually leaves the drain plug in perpetually so it stays full of water. Yet despite all the years of abuse it can still outrun anything short of a bassboat and outfishes any other muskie boats I know.
Cotton on the roadside, cotton in the ditch
We all picked the cotton but we never got rich
Daddy was a veteran, a southern democrat
They oughta get a rich man to vote like that
Actually, some are.
Could you share your evidence for this? (That Recons, Rangers, Skeeters, or whatever are breaking their hulls/transoms at a higher rate than Tuffys.) All brands have some issues, it's most often a small percentage that get over-generalized; considering how they get used, it's actually amazing that there aren't more problems. The question for the end-user is: does the "tough as hell" Tuffy experience this less often?
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Glaucus_ - 8/9/2017 9:07 AM
By that I mean it's been ran in shallow rivers and nailed many many floating and submerged objects, nailed docks, beached on rocks to the point there's quite a sizable hole in the keel yet it still floats, we've been swamped by pleasure boats to the point the water was literally up to the decks and floating the fuel tank, the top cap/rail is missing pieces, the corner caps are busted, its never had a transom saver used, and it's always stored outside and he usually leaves the drain plug in perpetually so it stays full of water. Yet despite all the years of abuse it can still outrun anything short of a bassboat and outfishes any other muskie boats I know.
Cotton on the roadside, cotton in the ditch
We all picked the cotton but we never got rich
Daddy was a veteran, a southern democrat
They oughta get a rich man to vote like that
Actually, some are.
Could you share your evidence for this? (That Recons, Rangers, Skeeters, or whatever are breaking their hulls/transoms at a higher rate than Tuffys. ) All brands have some issues, it's most often a small percentage that get over-generalized; considering how they get used, it's actually amazing that there aren't more problems. The question for the end-user is: does the "tough as hell" Tuffy experience this less often?
Not that I care that much, because I'm pretty sure why you're going here but...whats the point of your questioning. People give you their thoughts, a guy pretty intimately aware of Tuffy products and their construction gave his thoughts....
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Posts: 228
Location: Tinley Park, IL | Glaucus_ - 8/9/2017 9:07 AM
Could you share your evidence for this? (That Recons, Rangers, Skeeters, or whatever are breaking their hulls/transoms at a higher rate than Tuffys.) All brands have some issues, it's most often a small percentage that get over-generalized; considering how they get used, it's actually amazing that there aren't more problems. The question for the end-user is: does the "tough as hell" Tuffy experience this less often?
Are you talking about QC issues or strength of hull? Either way, I highly doubt you will get the data you are looking for.
My opinion of the "tough as hell" Tuffy hull is based on what I have seen with a couple different Tuffys versus incidents I have read about with other boat brands. Yes, it is all anecdotal but this is how I formed my opinion.
Edited by Paul S 8/9/2017 9:35 AM
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Posts: 135
| Slamr - 8/9/2017 9:13 AM
Not that I care that much, because I'm pretty sure why you're going here but...whats the point of your questioning. People give you their thoughts, a guy pretty intimately aware of Tuffy products and their construction gave his thoughts....
There's no secret motivation to my questions. When talking boats, I think getting factual information on the points of comparison is helpful. Posts that essentially say, "The one I bought is the best because it's the one I bought" don't do anyone any good. King Kong smash Godzilla.
A couple people in this thread have stated a reason to buy a Tuffy is because it is tougher/stronger than other brands. They undoubtedly perceive this to be true; in my experience there isn't any difference. Steve provided some factual info about the build process by Tuffy that indicates quality and toughness. However, Tuffy hulls being strong doesn't mean the others are not strong. Steve alluded to the idea (but didn't substantiate it) that some other brands experience hull or transom issues more frequently than Tuffy. That's extremely interesting and relevant information and I'm interested in hearing the evidence...as it's the kind of thing that shapes purchase decisions.
Boats take a huge amount of pounding. Imagine if we asked our trucks to bounce and bang that much! I think all of the boat brands being discussed are really tough - they have to be. Imho, fit and finish are about the same in a Tuffy and a Recon; they're a step up in a Skeeter, and better than that in a Ranger. In my judgment, more realistic purchase reasons than "toughness" are how well the layout matches your fishing style, the details of fit and finish, and cost/value.
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Wellllllll said on all fronts Glaucus. Couldn't have summed it up better | |
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Location: Tennessee | I can't provide photographic evidence just off the top of my head but my father has been an outboard mechanic since he was a kid and his father since there have been outboards. I've been in and worked on hundreds and hundreds of boats since I was a kid. I've also saw plenty of boats that have collided with other boats, rocks, logs, boats stored in the poorest conditions imaginable,speared waves hard enough to seperate the hull, etc. I also am a Ranger fan as I do like the features they incorporate like lids, cleats, snap in carpet, etc so I'm not slamming them. But for what it's been through I'll say the Tuffy has held up to abuse better than 90% of the glass boats I've saw that have had similar treatments. Many boats treated similar I feel wouldn't be nearly as serviceable if at all. It's not scientific data but it's just real world observations. | |
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Location: Tinley Park, IL | Glaucus_ - 8/9/2017 10:30 AM
In my judgment, more realistic purchase reasons than "toughness" are how well the layout matches your fishing style, the details of fit and finish, and cost/value.
I agree. I only bought a Tuffy since the X-190 had the best combination of a bass boat deck with the ability to handle rougher water that I could easily put a kicker on. So fitting my needs was the main reason I bought a Tuffy. It wasn't until I owned the boat and operated it that I began to subscribe to the idea of "tough as hell" hull. I didn't really think much about the Kevlar in the hull but I have changed my tune on that after some firsthand experiences.
In terms of evidence and data, I just don't think you're going to find that. I have read so much about boats and motors over the last few years and you just don't see many, if any, comprehensive, comparison reviews on boats. There are no Consumer Reports that you can look at for customer satisfaction and reliability data. I would love if they had the resources for boats and motors that they do for automobiles. We mostly rely on personal experiences and hearsay to form our opinions. | |
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| There are no Consumer Reports that you can look at for customer satisfaction and reliability data. I would love if they had the resources for boats and motors that they do for automobiles. We mostly rely on personal experiences and hearsay to form our opinions.
Recreational boating sales will approaching $9 billion this year. Information on things such as quality/problem frequency and customer satisfaction data is absolutely available to those within the marine industry.
At the same time, consumer access to this information is almost nonexistent. Consumer Reports makes ratings and recommendations on anything from Guacamole (Sabra Classic) to a new truck (Toyota Tundra), but not boats. If it was easier to get, we might shop boats and motors a little bit more rationally and argue a little less emotionally. But for now...King Kong smash Data.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Glaucus_ - 8/9/2017 10:30 AM
Slamr - 8/9/2017 9:13 AM
Not that I care that much, because I'm pretty sure why you're going here but...whats the point of your questioning. People give you their thoughts, a guy pretty intimately aware of Tuffy products and their construction gave his thoughts....
There's no secret motivation to my questions. When talking boats, I think getting factual information on the points of comparison is helpful. Posts that essentially say, "The one I bought is the best because it's the one I bought" don't do anyone any good. King Kong smash Godzilla.
A couple people in this thread have stated a reason to buy a Tuffy is because it is tougher/stronger than other brands. They undoubtedly perceive this to be true; in my experience there isn't any difference. Steve provided some factual info about the build process by Tuffy that indicates quality and toughness. However, Tuffy hulls being strong doesn't mean the others are not strong. Steve alluded to the idea (but didn't substantiate it ) that some other brands experience hull or transom issues more frequently than Tuffy. That's extremely interesting and relevant information and I'm interested in hearing the evidence...as it's the kind of thing that shapes purchase decisions.
Boats take a huge amount of pounding. Imagine if we asked our trucks to bounce and bang that much! I think all of the boat brands being discussed are really tough - they have to be. Imho, fit and finish are about the same in a Tuffy and a Recon; they're a step up in a Skeeter, and better than that in a Ranger. In my judgment, more realistic purchase reasons than "toughness" are how well the layout matches your fishing style, the details of fit and finish, and cost/value.
We ( OutdoorsFIRST Media) see more rigs in severe use in a year than most folks will in a lifetime, and see how they wear over a couple years true abuse. I worked for a couple other brands in one capacity or another and still do, in fact. I've been in the marine industry for 45 years and as a result am aware of the lamination schedule of many of the boats out there, what that means, and where the 'short cuts' are in many of the brands. I also talk with boat dealers (every brand mentioned here) regularly, and hear the complaints about quality and service all the time, things that are not talked about when the consumer's ear is within hearing distance. Also deal with a TON of consumers on social media where the commentary is unfiltered.
Any builder out there could build the most durable hull on the water; it's a choice, plain and simple, based upon how much material costs they can get rid of and still keep the incidence of warranty at an acceptable level at a price the consumer will pay. One brand mentioned here has more advertising and marketing cost in their boat than combining a few others, and they have done an excellent job. Do they have warranty issues? Sure they ALL do, boats are made in factories by people....it's how the warranty is handled that matters, and all of them end up with some folks who are unhappy no matter what is done or because they expect more than the warranty and service offers. ALL brands....
The boat builders don't expect you to know about the resin/glass ratios, types of resins used, laminates used, or the schedule, and most consumers don't, because what one can actually see is the exterior and bling.
I never said Tuffy was 'tougher than (insert brand here)', but could and be correct, we just don't (and won't) do that sort of comparison here. What I will say is I am not aware of a heavier lamination schedule, and that those boys know frp.
And....any and all builders can and do build boats that will need warranty work. That cost is also built into your price and that's why each has a warranty. In the end, one selects the brand they want, buy it, and if the product earns confidence, that's, for that buyer, the 'best' boat out there.
Also, the cost/value is definitely there in a Tuffy, Ranger, Warrior, Lund, Skeeter, Nitro...pick a brand, and many loyal fans own one of them (OFM works with five of those brands in one way or another today and owns two). Paying $94000.00 for a 21' boat rigged out and ready to roll is beyond the means of many. $61000.00? Not as bad. Can't expect to get the same bling for the dollar, but one should expect both will hold up under the use/abuse intended, especially if it's a 'walleye boat'. Both do. That's why both are healthy companies.
I own a Toyota Tundra pickup. Wish it was a Denali, but it isn't. I still really like my truck and am not worried too much if someone else who OWNS a Denali looks down his nose at it.
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i'd take a diesel 1-ton Super Crew over that Denali hands down ... | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I was thinking of your truck when I posted that. | |
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| Mecoltin123
I Run a Tuffy 1760 tiller and put a 8hp mercury kicker on it for the exact reason you want to. I also fish the same waters you do. Motor pushes the the boat up to 4.5 mph and gets me around the lake just fine.
It works great for what you are trying to do.
I also run mine in Green bay and LOTW and it handles the big water amazing for a 17' platform.
Ryan | |
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